Gamecube MMORPG Back From the Dead

Drakken writes "GamesAreFun.com is reporting that Chunsoft has updated their Homeland website with three new movies, two of them showing off online play. For awhile, Homeland (a GameCube MMORPG) was thought to be cancelled, but it seems it's alive again. This is significant because Homeland will be only the second-ever online GameCube game, making use of the GC's broadband adapter." Probably a JP only release.

Comments

Nintendo's biggest problem

[genrader]

The biggest problem with Nintendo that I have seen is the fact that they think they know what gamers want, but they don't. Gamers want online gameplay. Nintendo says "we are sure that gamers aren't ready for this yet" but look at how many people play online with a Ps2 and Xbox? Xbox Live is mad, if GameCube had good online games with something along the lines of Xbox live I think they'd be doing a lot better.

Nintendo has said that they are sticking to what gamers want, but they don't know. I know several people who bought an Xbox soley so they could play a console online, a few of those people would have bought GameCubes for online play if it would have had it.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[nocomment]

FWIW I think the popularity of the DS might show this to Nintendo...at least I hope it does.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[genrader]

Nintendo KNOWS people want portables, but they don't realize how much money they could make if they'd concentrate on their best online capabilities. Maybe they'll do this with their next console that is being released...late next year or early 2006, can't remember when they said they are launching it.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, I believe only about 10-15% of XBox owners have Live.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Guppy06]

"Gamers want online gameplay. Nintendo says "we are sure that gamers aren't ready for this yet""

No, Nintendo says "Here's the broadband adapter and here's the modem. If you want anything else, go bug the game companies." The reason we're not seeing as much online games on the GCN as we have on the PS2 and Xbox is that Nintendo isn't bending over backwards to run everything but the servers (or even the servers as well), instead expecting game companies to take a PC-esque "Do it yourself" approach.

And in many ways this is the same tactic they're taking with the DS: wireless capabilities are provided, but they expect the software companies to be the ones to do something with it.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[incom]

Actually, I'd say it has more to do with no incentive for gamers to buy the gamecube broadband adapter, and thus no incentive for developers to take advantage of the adapter, and on the cycle goes. With Microsoft, they used substantial marketing and first party game support to boost live, not to mention built-in networking. And for the PS2, it doesn't have THAT many online gamers per system owner, and sony did do some developer and marketing pushes to compete with microsoft. If nintendo would have released something like mariokart, or metroid prime2, with the broadband adapter included, and good online functions for those games, they could have had something.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want online play for my console, so don't pretend to know. That's why I have a PC.

Jackass.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[SetupWeasel]

How much money is the "online" XBOX making? If you said negative one billion dollars, you would be right!

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Gothic_Walrus]

Look at the kinds of games for each system, and you'll see that Nintendo is right.

While online play covers a wide variety of genres, there are two in particular that are played (from my experience) much more frequently online: first person shooters and sports games.

Nintendo has never been known for sports games. Ever since the Genesis era, Nintendo has lagged behind in sports titles. If you bought a system for sports gaming, you bought a Genesis, a Dreamcast, an Xbox...because everyone knows (or thinks) that Nintendo's consoles just can't handle the sports games as well as the other consoles can.

Similarly, Nintendo has never been known for first person shooters. They've still got the most family-friendly reputation, despite apparent attempts to change that (Eternal Darkness, exclusive Resident Evil titles). More importantly, the one shooter that WAS incredibly successful on a Nintendo console - Goldeneye - was popular because of its multiplayer...where you sat next to the people you played against.

The games Nintendo succeeds with are ones that require interaction between others. Hell, Animal Crossing (and Pokémon, to an extent) is built almost entirely on social behavior. If you took games like those two online, you'd lose something. Trading a Pikachu for your best friend's Dragonite isn't the same as swapping with someone across the continent that you've never met and will never speak to again. The same holds true for other titles in Nintendo's stable as well. Playing Mario Kart or Mario Tennis against a nameless, faceless 13 year old takes something away from the experience. The fun with these titles is playing against friends, relatives, people you know.

It could just be my opinion, but I think that Nintendo has a damn good reason for not including online play in their titles. They'd lose what makes their games so much fun to play.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Lynxara]

I think it's more a problem of not knowing what American gamers want. When viewed in light of the Japanese marketplace, most of Nintendo's recent decisions are fairly understandable, if not always optimal. Only a few, like the early DS release in the US or the upcoming "grown-up" Zelda game betray even a moderate concern with the demands of the American market as it stands.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Dragoon412]

The games Nintendo succeeds with are ones that require interaction between others. Hell, Animal Crossing (and Pokémon, to an extent) is built almost entirely on social behavior. If you took games like those two online, you'd lose something.

How could adding online play possibly constitute "losing something" when it comes to gameplay? It certainly isn't coming at the expense of local multiplayer, or single player.

Look, this is exactly why Nintendo has such a reputation for building games for kids. Look beyond cutesy or cartoony graphics. Forget the lack of blood and gore. Those don't equate to kid-centric gameplay. Designing your games with the intent that they'll be played by Johnny 14 year-old with his buddies that come over after school, however, does.

The original Nintendo generation has grown up. We're in college and grad school, we've got wives and husbands and kids and jobs. Our friends have moved across town or across the country. We don't get to have our buddies over after school, now. Most of us don't even have the luxury of living in a dorm with dozens of potential gamers on our floor.

We are the ones that want online multiplayer; the older crowd. We don't get to enjoy those (fucking asinine) "features" Nintendo's so proud of, like necessitating GBAs and link cables for some half-assed multiplayer with people sitting right next to you.

I don't think anyone's going to argue - on those rare occaisions I can get my friends in one place, and we order some pizza and wings, throw back a few beers and beat the crap out of each other in Mario Kart or Smash Bros. or ESPN Football, it's a riot. Hell, the old Perfect Dark tournaments we'd run when I lived in the dorms were the most fun I've ever had gaming, this side of Mechwarrior leagues. But that doesn't happen too often.

What does happen often, though, is I've got a few hours of leisure time after work or class, and no one around. Do you have any idea how badly Smash Bros. sucks when you're playing by yourself against the computer? How about Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, or Zelda: Four Swords? They're terrible single-player games by today's standards.

Now, if they had online playability, and we could jump in a game with a friend from 2 states away, or hell, even a stranger, and play some co-op, or even just beat each other up, those games might appeal to a whole new market segment. But for the time being, Nintendo's own bull-headedness is relegating them to teenager types who've got the spare time, and that's why they're "kiddie" games.

Jebus McChrist, Nintendo, take yours heads out of your asses and give us a decent online platform. Get Square back. Do an update on Secret of Mana with online multiplayer. The concept excites me in ways video games shouldn't. How about getting Sega to make a new PSO that isn't a card game, or some bug-riddled piece of shit port of the exact game we played on the Dreamcast 5 years ago? How about some co-op Metroid, or online SSBM and Mario Kart? Releasing yet another Zelda spin-off with some GBA connectivity "feature" just shows that you've turned your back on the generation that made you successful in the first place.

Nintendo's got an awesome opportunity, here. Online games are neglected in two major ways: one, they're almost universally of the sports and FPS genres, and two, they're almost universally player vs. player, or maybe team vs. team. Co-op is sorely neglected. Non-FPS games are sorely neglected. Stop telling us what we want, and fucking give it to us!

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[TechniMyoko]

How about Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, or Zelda: Four Swords? They're terrible single-player games by today's standards.

As my stalker will attest to (and stalk me for, for some only god knows reason), I fricken hated Crystal Chronicals. But Four Swords was really fun. I even imported the japanese one which had Tetra's Trackers, which despite what Nintendo wants US gamers to know, was actually pretty fun.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[buffer-overflowed]

Do you not get people together to do things?

Movie nights, going out to bars/clubs, things of that nature? It's called organizing a social activity, and this doesn't stop when you get out of grade school or high school or college or get a significant other or get married. And when you have kids you do this kind of shit all the time. Board games, card games, things that require a group of people in the same place at the same time.

Online play is an attempt at emulating this, satisfying that need every person has for social interaction. But it's not the same. Multiplay on one console is a social gathering, like a poker game. A poker game requires getting a group of older people together, in the same place, at the same time for a lenghty period of time in order to take part in it.

Hell, ever have your buddies over to watch the game? Same idea.

People like to bash FF:CC, but getting 4 people together, drinks and snacks, and playing it was an awesome experience which couldn't have been done any other way. Would the game itself have benefitted from an online option? Yea, it would've, it would've been a better game for it because you would've been able to play it alone and get more of a taste of how it plays in a social setting. Playing FF:CC alone was like playing World of Warcraft alone... not bad, but not that fun. I'm looking forward to FF:CC DS precisely because I'll be able to play it whenever I want to, as it was meant to be played, without having to get a group of people together every time. I'll be able to play it on a whim.

Going head to head with someone in a game of Street Fighter 2(or Soul Calibur or SSB:Melee), even a stranger, in person at an arcade or in your home is an infinately better experience than sitting at home in the dark fighting John_32x over broadband. For one, you don't get the teenager acting losers who like to spout shit about donkey cock.

This is where Nintendo excels. Providing the social gathering experience, making games that are fun to play with your friends and family. Calling this "childlike" or "kiddie" is like calling Trivial Pursuit or Monopoly or Poker the same. It's just a ridiculous assertion.

Now, I would love it if they started bringing their games online. It would be great to be able to get that emulated social experience whenever I wanted to, or once again school friends from college who have scattered to the 4 corners of the earth. But it's not absolutely necessary.

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[DeadScreenSky]

Playing Mario Kart or Mario Tennis against a nameless, faceless 13 year old takes something away from the experience. The fun with these titles is playing against friends, relatives, people you know.

But that is what a lot of people are using Xbox Live for - to play their friends and relatives online. My brother is away at college in another state - I can't get together with him very often and play games in the same room. And a universal friends list means you don't have to play against strangers if you don't want to, and that even strangers can quickly become friends. People make new friends through the internet all the time - how is doing it over a gaming chat line any different?

And including online play for the people that want it doesn't mean you have to play online. An option to play online won't take away the modes you already enjoy playing!

Nintendo is just ignoring online play out of cheapness (it is expensive to set stuff like Xbox Live up, no doubt), tradition (ie fear), and general laziness (witness the laggy half-ass LAN play of Mario Kart - you can't even choose your kart!). When they finally decide it has become vital (like ditching cartridges eventually became obvious to them), they will do it. So after everyone has, of course. :D

Re:Nintendo's biggest problem

[Anonymous Coward]

"look at how many people play online with a Ps2 and Xbox?"
Of the 14 million Xbox's sold 1 million have an Xbox live account. That's just over 7%. That doesn't sound like the game breaker to me.
Its just another case of what the media wnats to be hot.
I own a PS2 and haven't been exited about any games in a long while. How many RPG's, and FPS can you own.
I am excited about the creativity in the Gamecube games. Like Donkey Conga, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, dare I even bring up the Wind Waker.

what was the first?

[nocomment]

I've got a GC, I'd love to play it online. Hello, Nintendo? You there? helllooooo....online Zelda? I f this homelad game is made into engrish, I'll buy it, and the GC adapter. Looks neat. Sort of like an online Zelda (in a windwaker sort of way).

Re:what was the first?

[chris462]

What, exactly, would you do with an online Zelda?

The LoZ series is all about becoming the Hero of Time. The only thing I could see appealing with online Zelda would be an online implementation of Four Swords, but even that isn't terribly interesting.

The problem I have with online gaming (esp. MMORPG) is this mentality where I have to shell out $50 for the game itself then, on top of that, a fee just to play it. If I can somehow acquire the game for free, I have no problem paying the $10/mo, since I'll get five or six months out of the game and still "break even."

I also despise the swarms of 13 year-old kids on these networks that do nothing but talk trash and single-handedly ruin the experience for most of the gamers I know. I have a hard time paying money to be that frustrated.

Online play is appealing, but not nearly as appealing as innovative hardware and software. Nintendo has come, time and again, with new and unique games and hardware. Starting with the Legend of Zelda on the NES to Super Mario 64 and, most recently, Pikmin and the Nintendo DS. What have Microsoft and Sony done?

Re:what was the first?

[metroid composite]

what was the first?

I'm assuming Phantasy Star Online (episodes 1-3). EP 3 being the only one unique to the GC I believe.

Really?

[CrazyJim1]

I was at g3 several years ago, on my only game developer job interview. I kept ranting and raving about how big online gaming would be, and how theres a monopoly that needs to be capped in it(which amazingly no one has achieved yet). Anyway its funny I didn't get hired by 919 sports though because that company just had half their company split into Verant who was making Everquest. It didn't dawn on me until later why I was getting blank and cold stares from the people in 919. For a game company to still not see the multibillion online market is beyond me.

Fanboy Apologist

[warmgun]

To me, it seems Nintendo thinks the hurdle is more technological than econmical, despite what they say. To play the Nintendo games that people want online, such as Mario Kart or Samsh Bros., you really can't suffer any lag. Many can attest, the slightest mismovement in Smash Bros. will cost a precious point. By waiting another generation of consoles, Nintendo is ensuring a qaulity service instead of one seemingly slapped together at the last minute.

Re:Fanboy Apologist

[DeadScreenSky]

Racing and fighting games (excepting the button-mashy no-long-animations 2D types) work perfectly well on Xbox Live. Good programming and low latency from broadband connections are really what is necessary. It probably is late enough in this generation that Nintendo would be silly to push online play, but let's not pretend this heavy lag thing is a problem that hasn't been long solved already.

Third game, not second.

[Fred Or Alive]

The Gamecube has two games online:

Phantasy Star Online Episode 1 & 2
Phantasy Star Online Episode 3 - CARD Revolution.

Assuming you count the two different PSO games as being separate games. You could count it as 1.5 games instead or something I suppose.

Re:Third game, not second.

[Allison Geode]

three, if you count the recrntly-released special edition of pso episode 1&2 (that has the downloadable missions available without having to be downloaded, as well as the GBA minigames stored on the disc instead of the net.) other than that, though, its really not much changed, but it could be a good introduction to the series if you're just now getting started.

Re:Third game, not second.

[Fred Or Alive]

Whoops, I forgot that, although seeing as I'm in the UK my list is correct, PSOI&2+ isn't out here. Not that it matters for me anyway, I have the Xbox version, and I somehow doubt Sonic Team are going to update that.

(I only got a Gamecube this morning, thank you Argos for your consistant efforts to offload Gamecube as cheaply as possible, GBP £60 for the Donkey Konga pack was very nice.).

I Don't WANT Online Play

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experience, online play is playing against 13-year-old punks who spout off a continuous stream of racial slurs, insulting comments about my sexuality, and other profanity.

I'd much rather just play with myself.

Re:I Don't WANT Online Play

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa, that's hot. (You were asking for it)

Re:I Don't WANT Online Play

[Anonymous Coward]

You can do both at the same time.

Nintendo appeal.

[TheGeneration]

Nintendo likes to put out games that are quality. I know that when I go out and buy a game for the Gamecube that it is far less of a crap shoot than with other systems. The problem though is that they have completely opted out of some genres of gaming that I am interested in. For example the Dance Dance Revolution (DDR) style game which are fun (yes, you can admit it) but the only game they have in that style is Donka Konga... wich has a set of bongos. Where am I going to put bongos in my apartment?

They also completely skip the strategy genre. This is primarily dependent on the fact that it's a console, and strategy games historically haven't done well. I feel though that there are enough buttons on the controllers now to allow strategy games to be fun to play. Maybe I'm crazy go nuts.

Nintendo's skipping of the MMORPG genre is a bit weird though. This would seem like a natural source of long lasting revenue stream. It could possibly be related to the number of consoles on the market, possibly it's not enough to make the endeavor profitable on the Gamecube which is has not sold as well as the PS2. What I don't understand is why a software company can't make a cross platform MMORPG. Perhaps part of the problem is that patching on the game discs is impossible since they are read only. You have to get the game righ straight out of the door.

Re:Nintendo appeal.

[xenocide2]

They've completely skipped the strategy genre? Hardly. Advance Wars 2 and Fire Emblem are both resurrections of some of the earliest strategy games available on a console. Fire Emblem inspired a whole slew of knockoffs, from Shining Force to Ogre Tactics. Perhaps you meant real-time strategy, the genre which you might place the game Pikmin into?

I think that Nintendo is focusing on two things: creating new franchises unlike anything you've seen before (we call that innovation) and milking their brands with sequals (often called the antithesis of innovation). Dance Dance Mario doesn't seem to fit into either of those two categories.

Nintendo not pushing a MMORPG is a smart move; they want people dropping money on new games, rather than being locked into playing the same game for years. Square, as you probably know, has made a cross platform MMORPG. I don't know if the PS2 and PC owners use segregated servers, though. Even more frightently, an MMORPG represents a huge risk; you have to put down the cash for infrastructure, advertising, customer support, billing, and networking. That kind of risk means you'll be looking to minimize it, by using franchises already well established. Their options: Pokemon, a hugely popular franchise with the credit cardless demographic, and Fire Emblem, which hasn't made a big splash outside the portable market in the US.

Re:Nintendo appeal.

[j0nb0y]

For example the Dance Dance Revolution (DDR) style game which are fun (yes, you can admit it) but the only game they have in that style is Donka Konga... wich has a set of bongos. Where am I going to put bongos in my apartment?

If you don't have room for a small plastic bongo drum, you certainly don't have the space for a DDR dance pad.

Re:Nintendo appeal.

[falcon5768]

Ill say those bongos are barley bigger than a aftermarket controler.... and you think they are big?

Besides there IS a company that puts out a DDR like game for gamecube anyway, i saw it with the mat at bestbuy last week.

Re:Nintendo appeal.

[nabasu]

Hmm...Just gonna check if you're with it...Do you know about this new franchise of Nintendo called Pikmin..?

Re:Nintendo appeal.

[ksiddique]

For those interested, the company is MadCatz and the game is MC Groovz danceCraze.

I thought this was smart of MadCatz... there are no dance games for the Cube so they made a game and can now sell their dance pads.

Re:Nintendo appeal.

[wolfmanXUG]

The multi-platform MMORPG Square made for the PC and the PS2, having played it on both platforms I can say that both PS2 and PC players are on the same servers. The is possible since the game is sold with the HDD and updates are downloaded to the HDD as they are on the PC.

Exactly Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

This game is going to be awesome.

YOU'RE the one with the horrible graphics and stupid gameplay.

Re:oh noo's

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you assume there's going to be a monthly fee? The article says there won't be..


Of note is that there won't be any online fee, a big plus for those interested in playing online.

A Big AOL Me Too!

[M.C. Hampster]

Ditto, Ditto and Ditto.

If the next Nintendo console doesn't have nice online support like the XBox, I will be switching cnosoles.

Have you...

[Moo Moo Cow of Death]

Have you seen the screenshots and graphics on that game? You realize it's being made in Japan? I'm not sure I WANT that on a Gamecube...perhaps a DS...

But even then, it's oriented more toward asian players which tend to not mind the treadmill so much so I don't think the american playerbase at least will be too interested in the first place (just look at the Lineage games census).

It's the 3rd online game and it's not a MMORPG

[Anonymous Coward]

Homeland is not a MMORPG. You run a server, on your gamecube, and up to 30 people play with you, on your server. It's also not the 2nd online game for the Cube, it's the third. Phantasy Star Online 1+2, Phantasy Star Online 3: Card Revolution, and this game.

It would be nice if one single freaking thing in this story had been correct.