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Welcome to the Future of DRM Media
MrFancyPants writes "'DRM, digital rights management, is quite possibly the holy grail of the music and movie industry, allowing them to control exactly how DRM protected content is used, distributed and above all can be tracked right down to the individual end user.' Hardware Analysis reports on a horror story of someone picking up a DVD recently and having to go through an agonizing process of installing DRM-enabled applications to even get it to play on his computer. If this is what the future holds, you'd better think twice about buying DVDs and other media, as you're basically at the mercy of the producer."
People pay money for products that suit their needs. If a product fails to meet the needs of the user, they can:
- bitch and complain
- return the product
- don't buy such products in the future.
If what the xxAA sells suits the needs of enough customers, they'll be successful with it. If they're overly restrictive then they'll fail. Obviously they think that most consumers won't mind the limitations, or even notice them.
Is that so difficult to understand? Just because YOU can't rip a DVD doesn't mean that the MPAA will care.
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Welcome to the end of them seeing a single one of my dollars.
I refuse to financially support this horseshit.
i'll just continue to rent them from blockbusters and use http://www.dvdshrink.org/ to rip, copy and burn them.
> better think twice about buying DVDs and other media, as you're basically at
> the mercy of the producer
Not just that - most users simply aren't capable of installing all that crap even if they wanted to. Loads of people have problems even double or right clicking on something (and I'm not just talking about Apple customers, either).
They're gonna try this because they are stupid and need to be dragged kicking and screaming into every new market that opens for them, but ultimately the power is in *our* hands because we have the money they want. When we stop buying DVDs that are overpriced and burdensome, they'll dump the DRM.
DRM isn't nearly as valuable to them as... say... having a market for them in the first place. When the returns start coming back to retailers from people like my mother-in-law, they'll relent.
Trust me.
She's very persuasive.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
As we saw in another slashdot article, the DVD business makes up a large amount of the Hollywood's profits. Watch the movie in the theatres and don't buy the DVD's and watch the DVD portion of the profits plummet.
Hollywood and the music companies aren't budging. The masses are just accepting what they push down our throats. Perhaps it is time to use our power as consumers?
In this case, the solution is to use DVD Shrink and make a copy for yourself without all of that extra bullshit on it. There will ALWAYS be a software solution to this crap.
I don't respond to AC's.
If sales of the DRM versions of films stink, then the powers that be won't be able to implement them profitably. We need to make sure that the cost in lost sales due to DRM techniques pissing of the customer exceed the lost sales due to the media being copiable. Of course this is easier said than done, as there are millions of customers that need to be organized versus just a few production companies that can easily rally together, but it is the only way that production companies will get the message.
It's like DIVX (no, not the video compression, the now defunct DVD competitor that had embedded DRM), DIVX movies were cheaper than DVD's but they had a limited license that had to be renewed for multiple viewing (like pay per view). Customers rejected it and it (thankfully) died an ugly death.
The problem isn't that they DRMed their stuff. Fine. Let them. It's theirs, not ours, even if we really, really want it to be. But not telling us that it is DRMed is misleading advertising. It's like selling someone a car that automatically spraypaints the inside of their garage or else refuses to turn on. If the car manufacturer requires a garage to be painted a certain color, then fine, they can do that, no matter how ridiculous it may be. But they have to make that extremely pertinent information known prior to the sale.
If I can see it, I can copy it. If I can hear it, I can record it.
At some point, no matter how high-tech the DRM gets, the data must be presented in a form humans can perceive. All the encryption in the world won't stop little Mikey from holding a microphone up to the outputs and making a non-DRM copy.
To anyone who says that such a copy will be inferior in quality, I note two points:
1) The loss only occurrs once. The non-DRM copy can then be shared digitally with no further loss of quality.
2) The original work was recorded from the air. The band actually played its song, or the actor actually did his thing. If similar technology is used to create the non-DRM copy, the loss will be negligible. (Imagine a home theatre system set up on a soundstage in someone's basement, with pickups and equipment to record its "performance")
People also seem to have this irrational fear that the old technology will suddenly disappear. My digital camcorder is pretty good, and it will still exist when the world is DRM'd. So will my mp3 player, and so will my non-DRM compliant microphones.
Furthermore, there will be a high demand for DRM-noncompliant technology. Even if it is illegal, I predict a briskly moving black market in such technology. If there's a dollar to be made, someone will make it.
As for watermarking: pay cash.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
I'd rather download the theater rip than put up with this invasion...
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77 77 77 2e 6d 65 6c 76 69 6e 73 2e 63 6f 6d
DRM and the fighting against it are both losing battles. First, most of the trouble I hear about with DRM involves playing protected media on PCs. As long as the media works in the DVD player that the average Jane User has in the living room, most people won't care. That part of it is what, in some sense, has Microsoft worried the most. Microsoft has to develop and promote DRM on Windows to first satisfy the rights owners and then to be able to promote Windows as the preferred media platform. But Jane User doesn't need Windows to play DVDs and generally wants to stay as far away from those difficult to use PCs as possible. DRM nightmare stories will make sure that she doesn't even think about playing DVDs in a PC.
/.. ;-)
At the other extreme, as usual, DRM will not stop the real pirates who have time and resources to defeat any DRM scheme. So ironically for Microsoft and the entertainment industry, people will still be able to get cheaper pirate DVDs they will happily play in DVD players that do not (in most cases) use any Microsoft technology. Knowledgable PC users (ie geeks) will continue to find ways to get around DRM and/or b*tch about it here on
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
My family used to buy about a dozen CD's per year. I'd take the CD's - convert it to MP3's - put it on my home server for listening at home, and download individual MP3's to my MP3 player for music on the go and in my car. First time I bought a CD that was DRM'ed and couldn't be extracted - I stopped buying CD's. Haven't bought one in over two years. If the studios load up DVD's with DRM to the point that they can't be used - DON'T BUY THEM! Abusing your customers is not a viable long term business strategy.
[Insert pithy quote here]
in the ONLY language they understand - revenue!
Return the DVD to the store for a refund.
If you don't hit them in the sales, they'll NEVER hear your message. If you keep the DVD and gripe online, they won't HEAR your message quite as clearly as if you return it. True, they will see reduced revenue as Slashdotters stay away from the DVD, but it won't be quite as direct.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Elvis is 50 this year, which means in exactly 10 days time he will start to come out of copyright and be put into the public domain (just incase anyone didn't know what Elvis sounded like)
So, what about DRM.
if I download Elvis from Real and they put DRM on the track how the hell am I supposed to make as many copies of the public domain work as I want?
This is based on the assumption that...
DRM is technical not artistic so it doesn't count as a new work, just a copy.
Real used the original Elvis recording (or copy of).
you live in the UK (or possibly the EU as well)
But still holds true in 50 years time when that DRM music you purchased comes out of copyright, how can you then put it into the public domain?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
For context, I am in the USA.
If the commercial says "Buy the movie now" but the packaging says you are only licensing the movie, isn't this called false advertising?
Shouldn't the commercial be "Get your license to view this movie as we see fit, including 20 minutes of commercials that play each time you view the movie - which you cannot skip."?
Piracy (ARR!) of music and movies, even as a protest (yeah, right) isn't going to help eliminate DRM. In fact, it only strengthens the case of those industries trying to foist DRM on us in the first place.
It's only logical; the more people "pirate", the tighter the industries are going to try to clamp down. All at the expense of legitimate users who just want to watch/listen to what they paid for.
Let's face it, folks. DRM didn't just will itself into existence. It was the industries' response to people who wantonly ignored copyright laws for the sake of getting something without paying for it. Simply doing more of the same isn't going to make it go away.
Want to get rid of DRM? Stop buying CDs. Stop going to concerts. Stop buying DVDs. Stop going to the theatre. Cutting off revenue isn't going to be enough, as the industries can simply blame it on "piracy". Cutting off DEMAND would force them to address the true problem.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
Remember Divx? The First Generation DVD players Circuit City pushed like crack that would play $5.00 DVD's for only a few days after the disk phoned home?
Don't be surprised when it makes a comeback in HD-DVD or BluRay. Regardless of how catastrophic a failure Divx was it was exactly what the MPAA wanted, which was a way to tell a DVD not to play unless the MPAA says so.
Simply put, the MPAA knows that the box office is eventually going to die. I mean why go to a cineplex and pay outrageous prices (for tickes and food) and then have to deal with cell phones and babies making a ton of noise in a sticky seat when you can just watch it in your own home theather on your couch with the same visual and audio quality on a HDTV.
Basicially their overall plan is to shift ticket sales from the Movie Theather to your Home Theather. It's already on in the Cable and Satellite Industry and it's going to start soon on the DVD side, if not with HD-DVD or Bluray then with the Next Format.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
I had a comic book character I invented that is out for Justice, but is blinded to think all crimes are equal. It starts out with the Indiscriminator perched above a bank and it shows two robbers running out below. He jumps off the bank in pursuit, but Wait theres a bunch of fleeing citizens. Whats more, some are jaywalking! So the Indiscriminator stops his pursuit of the bank robbers to beat up some jaywalkers. Later issues have him diving off an overpass to rip open the roof of a car thats speeding. He then beats up the driver.
God spoke to me.
DRM, digital rights management
Who do you think invented that term? if you call it digital rights management you are playing right into their pathetic marketing game. Call it digital restrictions management - a far more fitting description?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
There's a lot of posts here saying that if we don't like it, stop buying DRM'd CDs and DVDs and they will drop it. No they won't. If we stop buying DVDs and CDs the RIAA and MPAA will turn around and blame it on file sharing and tighten up DRM further. We can't win.
(budget and sales figures from IMDB
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
Perhaps instead of just not buying CDs you should find bands that aren't DRM encumbered.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
If stored media becomes too difficult to use (which I predict it will be in time) our entertainment dollar will be spent on some form of "pay per view." Combine that with the no-copy-bit, and you've got exactly what they want. They want you to pay for something that you have no rights to. You won't have a right to record it for watching again later -- they want you to pay for it each time.
I believe they are hoping to make stored home media a thing of the past.
Think of the profit on this idea. They store the media and just play it back for you on demand and each time, they get more money. It's not like a public performance where the actors get paid for each time they act. The makers get paid once. The publishers get paid forever.
I don't like where things are going, but who does? I can see where all kinds of "inconvenience" will be installed when playing back your old stuff or even current and new stuff. If it weren't for VCRs learning to set their own time, I'll be there'd be MORE VCRs blinking 12:00 than not even now... how much worse will it be when you are required to have a broadband internet connection just to play your own damned movies thanks to DRM.?
"Hollywood and the music companies aren't budging. The masses are just accepting what they push down our throats. Perhaps it is time to use our power as consumers?"
Here's a novel thought. Maybe the masses aren't as affected as "/."'s believe. They can go many places and get the content* they want (legally even). Everyone here bitches about the economics of the situation, but the masses overall ARE getting what THEY WANT. This is reflected in the fact that sales overall are up. So exactly why should they get involved in YOUR battle? They didn't start it. They might have to FINISH IT, because of all the misguided actions by those who don't know better. But then history's loaded with the masses having to clean up after the misguided actions of a few (WWI & II)
*Everything that's used as justification for piracy. From valve's games, to harry potter books, from movies, to music.
"Let's face it, folks. DRM didn't just will itself into existence. It was the industries' response to people who wantonly ignored copyright laws for the sake of getting something without paying for it. Simply doing more of the same isn't going to make it go away."
C'mon. The industry has always been about DRM. When piano rolls were popular, there were forms of copyprotection on that. When computers became popular, the industry tried copy protection. When CD's were introduced, the copyprotection was that you couldn't reproduce them.
DRM is not a response to piracy, although it is viewed as reducing the amount.
DRM is about control. Way back in the days of the jukebox, people couldn't afford to buy a lot of music. But they could afford to put a nickel in the jukebox...pay per play.
Back when movies could only be viewed in the theater, and they could be put on TV with no fear of copying. There was effective copy control, and while it wasn't DRM as such, it was the best they could do.
The industry LOVED this model. To this day, they are trying to get back to the model where they decide how and how much you can view "their" content.
Its not about piracy, its about getting more money for you for what you have now for free.
As someone who doesn't illegally rip material, I'm starting to find all the DRM stuff annoying.
I bought Dido's second album, for example, only to discover that you can only play it on a PC through a proprietary software player (assuming your OS will run it, naturally). That player sucks, and does annoying things like messing up my system-wide volume levels. I haven't tried personally, but I'm reliably informed that it doesn't work in some car CD players, either.
The point here is that what I bought was marketted as a CD. It was right there on the shelf in the CD section, next to other CDs, with nothing obviously saying that it wasn't. To be fair, there may have been a note about whether or not you could play it on certain computers visible in the small print; I can't remember and don't have it with me to check. But who reads all the small print when buying a CD from the CD section of a shop?
Now, "Compact disc" is a trademark of Philips, as is the CD logo you see on cases. Philips officially denies permission to use that mark to companies using technology that prevents playing the disc properly on standard equipment. (Google for this if you're interested.) Thus anyone marketting the material in the manner I saw it (be it a record shop, the music publishers, or whoever) is infringing on Philips' rights, and deserves to get smacked down for it.
It's a shame Philips don't seem to be pursuing this more aggressively, because preventing this kind of dilution of a mark is exactly what trademark law is for. I imagine that if all record shops were suddenly required to separate out normal CDs and copy-protected not-quite-CDs in an obvious way, sales of the latter would probably drop PDQ, and the problem would disappear just as fast. I can only assume that since everyone's doing it, they want a clear test case in their favour first to make it quick, easy, and most of all cheap to follow up with others. Maybe they're looking for such a test case and just waiting to make their move. Maybe they just don't care, but as one of the world's biggest manufacturers of CD/DVD burners, that seems unlikely.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I really haven't bought a new CD since that album. I was always fairly selective, but I did buy a few each year until that point. So they really have lost a genuine, paying customer in me. I don't find the loss has ruined my life; I listen to the radio if I want to hear some new music, and occasionally use a legal download service if I really like a track I've heard. Now I'm a living own-goal for the media industry's DRM technology. Anyone else?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
DVD regions were added to control distribution, in order to make as much money as possible. Now, people got fed up, and started cracking it as a response, or they simply downloaded the DVD or DVD-rip instead of having to wait for the latest and greatest movies to reach their country/region.
DRM is ultimately about control, as this story proves. It is not about piracy at all. It's about forcing people to license things for limited periods of time, thereby squeezing more money out of us.
Don't kid yourself with ignorant comments like "it was the industries' response to people who wantonly ignored copyright laws". It wasn't at all. It's just an excuse. DRM is about controlling distribution and forcing people to pay more for less.
Clever signature text goes here.
IIRC, Half Life 2 did say you needed an Internet Connection + a Steam account to play on the packaging. That's the difference.
Now, if you don't like the HL2 registration system, at least you can choose to reject it by reading the box.
You see, there is a parallel to the industrial revolution here in the information age.
History teaches that during the 1800's there were many people who believed that the entire meaning and purpose of the industrial revolution was to leverage inventions like the cotton gin to expand their plantations for unlimited growth and profit.Ironically just the opposite was true,the industrial revolution actually demanded a mobile and skilled workforce.
They responded first by making slavery last forever, and making laws so harsh you couldn't even teach a black person how to read. Then they responded by trying to micro-regulate the northern states, then they responded by trying to break off from the Union and fence themselves off from the rest of the world, and all hell broke loose.
Today many in media circles believe that the entire meaning and purpose of the information age is to use inventions like the internet to leverage their copyright holdings to the far reaches of the earth for unlimited growth and profit.Ironically,just the opposite is true,the information age demands the unrestricted flow of information.
At first they responded my making copyrights last effectively forever, then they responded by making it so that illegal copying could be punished worse than rape, then they tried to micro-regulate the tech industries (DMCA) then they fence the information that they controlled off from the rest of the world (DRM). It is only a matter of time before society tells them to go to hell, and all hell breaks loose.
DRM is like sheep's clothing. Describing it, as the article does, is not enough. The most crucial aspect of DRM is how it is used -- what's under the clothing. A number of DRM tech companies frantically try to please the wolves, and fail to address the need to keep the uses of DRM within legal bounds. My soon-to-be-published article, DRM: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly , tries to explain this.
Aire Libre
You should have returned those CDs as defective. By simply not buying any more CDs they're going to count those losses as due to piracy and not due to DRM.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Sorry, but that is wrong, and the fight is over if this nonsense is perpetuated.
DRM means "digital restriction mangement". Please don't help sell the idea that this is about the RIAA's or the MPAA's rights. It isn't
If you use their words, and allow the discussion to procede on their terms, you've ceded the fight.
Java is the blue pill
Choose the red pill
Having to view sodding adverts really pisses me off. I bought the movie, I should decide what content I skip over, forward wind etc, not some exec who wants more of my money.
This Hollywood is one reason why I make copies of ALL my DVDs. If you stop me making copies, I stop buying. TaDA!
My only comment to the movie industry here is "Good luck, guys!"
Unless you give consumers what they want, they will continue to get it elsewhere - ie online. I stopped buying dvd's and going to movies because of the obscene amount of protection (installing a drm'ed player!) and advertising (up to 30 minutes!) involved, respectively. The only source that actually offers me what I the consumer, want, is bittorrent. So that is where I will go.
I don't care about free movies; $5-$10 is a price I will happily pay to save my time. All I want is content that I can access when and how I want, without advertising. God forbid the movie industry offer this to the public. The further they get from actually giving consumers what they want, the more people will, like me, turn to illegal methods to get the product they want.
It's funny... in world economics, we learned the same lesson from Soviet Russia: the more you try to break the market, the more the market breaks you.
**** You never REALLY learn to swear until you own a computer. ****