China Closes 1,129 Web Sites

Also blocking sites in Thailand by angkor · 2004-12-22 23:04 · Score: 4, Informative

Something similiar is happening in Thailand: http://2bangkok.com/blocked.shtml

Who wrote this? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-22 23:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

You can barely understand this post, is this some undercover Chinese agent working for Slashdot posting propaganda?

So how long...? by FireFury03 · 2004-12-22 23:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

So how long until I can remove the block on a pair of CNLink's /20 networks from my firewall?

My web server was getting massively log spammed from them (even though I don't publish my web stats). The first time round I actually bothered to report the attacks to their abuse address but naturally got no response at all. So the second time I got attacked I had no choice but to just drop all traffic from both their /20's.

When will these ISPs realise they're shooting themselves in the foot by forcing everyone to just outright block their networks?

--
http://blog.nexusuk.org

Re:So how long...? by Kosi · 2004-12-22 23:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

When will these ISPs realise they're shooting themselves in the foot by forcing everyone to just outright block their networks?

As soon as really everyone blocks them.

China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by borgheron · 2004-12-22 23:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

So far it seems as though they've cracked down on:

1) Freedom of Religion.
2) Freedom of Expression.

Now, I know that we're not talking about the US here, so the Chinese don't have these rights. It's so blatant that the Chinese are never going to change their stance on human rights.

Gotta love the Chinese.

GJC

--
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep

Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by tacocat · 2004-12-22 23:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

China Migrating from Socialism to a Capitalistic Republic. America Migrating from a Democracy to a Capitalistic Republic.
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by onion2k · 2004-12-22 23:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

The article only states that the websites were 'illegal', not the actual law the sites broke. If these were child porn, for example, they'd have been shut down in any number of other countries. The 114 shut down for promoting gambling etc is a little more sinister, but again, theres lots of places in the UK and USA you're not allowed to promote gambling..

There isn't really enough information in the article to say either way whether or not China has actually done anything particularly bad, or indeed different to the way western governments would have reacted.

--
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by MrNemesis · 2004-12-22 23:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'll see your American capitalistic republic, and raise you a corporate plutocracy.

--
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-12-22 23:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's not so blatant to me. Change will come, but it will most likely come slowly rather than quickly, if for no reason other than China is a big country, with a huge population that enjoy a range of disparate lifestyles.

Sometime in our lifetimes China is going to become a consumer culture, consuming many of the goods that it already makes and exports to the rest of the world. My PDA was made in China. My keyboard was made in China. My colour laser printer was made in China. Can you see where I'm going with this?

Sooner or later, China's markets will open up to near Western levels. Chinese people will buy widescreen TVs, computers and designer goods. And when that happens, the gates will open too, albeit in a controlled manner. How strict those controls will be or how they will function is open to speculation but for over a decade now China has been becoming a more relaxed and less restrictive society.

Just because they have limits on internet access now that doesn't mean that they will always have limits on internet access. The US once had limits on the rights of blacks and women, yet it progressed from that point and China will to.

Don't forget, China isn't just a different country it's a different country with a totally different culture to that which we're familiar with in the West. Concepts that seem alien to us are natural to them, and vice versa. And, obviously, it's the negative aspects of Chinese society that always get played up rather than the positive ones.

And when it comes to things as subjective as human rights, please realise that there's an "eye of the beholder" aspect to be considered. You might regard China as being oppressive when it comes to religion or expression but there's not a country in the world that hasn't done the same at some time or another or that has its own human rights abuses going on right now.

So to recap, don't dismiss China as being stuck permanently on hold. China will progress and develop, but at its own pace and in its own time. Who knows when change will come and how suddenly. After all, the day before the Berlin Wall fell, or before Nelson Mandela was released, or any ground-breaking event, who would have predicted that such a radical change would come overnight?

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by IO+ERROR · 2004-12-22 23:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

China Migrating from Socialism to a Capitalistic Republic. America Migrating from a Democracy to a Capitalistic Republic.

I'm afraid one of those is a little backward. Try this instead:
America Migrating from a Republic to a Capitalistic Democracy
If you think America was ever intended to be a democracy, you are sadly mistaken. The founding fathers considered democracy to be the most vile thing they could think of, even worse than the Crown from which they separated. That's why they didn't set one up here.

--
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by DJTodd242 · 2004-12-23 00:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

...If this goes on...

Excuse me citizen. Nehemiah Scudder wants to have a word with you.
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by rattler14 · 2004-12-23 00:29 · Score: 4, Informative

Please mod parent up. For details, please confer with article 4 section 4 of a little document I like to call "the US constitution"

http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.txt

we have a constitutional republic, it just turns out we've turned it into a democracy... aka the tyranny of the majority.

--
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by rossdee · 2004-12-23 00:34 · Score: 3, Informative

Mod -1 Obscure Heinlein reference
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by theskeptic · 2004-12-23 00:39 · Score: 2, Informative

Euphemisms the chinese govt uses:

superstitious propoganda- church. christianity.
cults- falun gong etc

Religious freedom is very heavily monitored. Read the article from the nytimes below.

THE GREAT DIVIDE | COMPETING FOR SOULS
Violence Taints Religion's Solace for China's Poor
By JOSEPH KAHN

Published: November 25, 2004

UAIDE, China - Kuang Yuexia and her husband, Cai Defu, considered themselves good Christians. They read the Bible every night before bed. When their children misbehaved, they dealt with them calmly. They did not curse or tell lies.

But when Zhang Chengli, a neighbor, began hounding them last year to leave their underground religious sect and join his, it seemed like a test of satanic intensity. He scaled the wall of their garden, ambushed them in the fields and roused them after midnight with frantic calls to convert before Jesus arrived for his Second Coming and sent them to hell.

Advertisement

Ms. Kuang poured dirty water on Mr. Zhang's head. Mr. Cai punched him. Yet Mr. Zhang persisted for months until the couple's sect intervened and stopped his proselytizing for good.

Mr. Zhang's body - eyes, ears and nose ripped from his face - was found by a roadside 300 miles from this rural town in Jilin Province, in northeastern China. The police arrested Mr. Cai and fellow sect members. One of them died in police custody during what fellow inmates described as a torture session.

China's growing material wealth has eluded the countryside, home to two-thirds of its population. But there is a bull market in sects and cults competing for souls. That has alarmed the authorities, who seem uncertain whether the spread of religion or its systematic repression does more to turn peasants against Communist rule.

The demise of Communist ideology has left a void, and it is being filled by religion. The country today has more church-going Protestants than Europe, according to several foreign estimates. Buddhism has become popular among the social elite. Beijing college students wait hours for a pew during Christmas services in the capital's 100 packed churches.

But it is the rural underclass that is most desperate for salvation. The rural economy has grown relatively slowly. Corruption and a collapse in state-sponsored medical care and social services are felt acutely. But government-sanctioned churches operate mainly in cities, where they can be closely monitored, and priests and ministers by law can preach only to those who come to them.

The authorities do not ban religious activity in the countryside. But they have made it so difficult for established churches to operate there that many rural Chinese have turned to underground, often heterodox religious movements.

Charismatic sect leaders denounce state-sanctioned churches. They promise healing in a part of the country where the state has all but abandoned responsibility for public health. They also promise deliverance from the coming apocalypse, and demand money, loyalty and strict secrecy from their members.

Three Grades of Servants, a banned Christian sect that claims several million followers, made inroads in Huaide and other northern towns beginning nearly a decade ago. It lured peasants like Yu Xiaoping, as well as her neighbor, Ms. Kuang, away from state-authorized churches. Its underground network provided spiritual and social services to isolated villages.

But it also attracted competition from Eastern Lightning, its archrival, which sought to convert Ms. Yu, Ms. Kuang and others. The two sects clashed violently. Both became targets of a police crackdown.

Xu Shuangfu, the itinerant founder of Three Grades of Servants, who says he has divine powers, was arrested last summer along with scores of associates. Mr. Xu was suspected of having ordered the execution of religious enemies, police officers said.

Yet such efforts rarely stop the spread of underground churches and sects, which derive legitimacy from govern
Re:China Cracks Down on Freedoms... by Krach42 · 2004-12-23 01:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

Not entirely. The US is a Democratic Republic. We are a democracy, just not as much a democracy as other governments.

Likely, China is a democracy. It just doesn't really mean much because the vote is so controlled. But they still allow *citizens* to vote. (Keyword: Citizen. If you define Citizen to be "white land-owning male" then you have early America, if you defined Citizen to be "member of the communist party" then you have what the USSR was)

This confuses the heck out of people when they're told that East Germany was "Deutsche Democratische Republik" (German Democratic Republic) Anytime I tell an American about this, they say, "But they were a communist state!" It just confuses people to pit Democracy against Communism. Because they're apples and oranges.

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!

no... Re:In Communist China by buswolley · 2004-12-22 23:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

the internet kills you.

These people don't survive long in those prisons.

China oh China when will you give up, and be democratic.. so that you can kick our American financial butts?

--

A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

Re:no... Re:In Communist China by borgheron · 2004-12-22 23:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

Seriously, God help the United States when/if they ever realize this.

GJC

--
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Re:no... Re:In Communist China by Mattygfunk1 · 2004-12-23 00:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

The US wont need God, a prosperous (capitalist) China would be a good thing financially for all concerned. As for the military capabilities that wealth may bring - a change in foreign policy wouldn't be such a bad thing for the US at this point in time.
Re:no... Re:In Communist China by meringuoid · 2004-12-23 00:43 · Score: 3, Interesting

The US wont need God, a prosperous (capitalist) China would be a good thing financially for all concerned.
China already is capitalist. They say they're communist, but then North Korea say they're democratic...

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:no... Re:In Communist China by meringuoid · 2004-12-23 00:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

China oh China when will you give up, and be democratic.. so that you can kick our American financial butts?
When India starts to surpass them. India has the same colossal population as China, but is less well developed; however, it is a democracy. If democracy really is economically advantageous, India should overtake China at some point. As we on /. are all too well aware, the Indian IT industry is really doing well lately... That's when China will start to think about political reform - when their neighbour to the south is suddenly bigger than they are.

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:no... Re:In Communist China by Krach42 · 2004-12-23 01:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

Seriously, God help the United States when/if they ever realize this.

Actually, they'd ban this message, because it exhibits "superstition". I'd complain about this more, except it's all left up to definition of the Government.

For instance, China sees Christianity as subversive and superstition. So, they repress it.

In Germany, Scientology is seen as potentially subversive, and Germany taking a very strong stance against radical groups (go figure why... I mean, having been taken over by a radical faction that caused some of the most infamous crimes in the world? They wouldn't be paranoid about that anymore would they?) have repessed Sociology. There are a lot of Scientologists that gripe all the time that Germany is repressing them. Heck, it's for a good point, they repress *all* radical and reactionary groups.

But, back on topic, Christians around the world are upset at China, and gripe about it a lot. Although, I suppose one difference is that Germany doesn't imprision and execute people who preach Scientology, they just don't recognize it as a valid religion. (Thus, no tax benifits for donations, and they recieve none of the tax collected by the government for the Churches)

--

I am unamerican, and proud of it!

Sounds like now is the perfect time to use Tor by Agret · 2004-12-22 23:12 · Score: 2, Informative

Sounds like now is the perfect time to use Tor which was previously covered today :) http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/22/20 31229&tid=95&tid=158&tid=153&tid=17

--
Have you metaroderated recently?

How many sites exactly? by cybertears · 2004-12-22 23:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

China Closes 1,129 Web Sites The related departments have closed 1,278 illegal web sites and 114 sites ... how many sites were closed? Is it 1,129 as the headline reads, or 1,392 as the body states (1,278 + 114)

1984? by james_bray · 2004-12-22 23:12 · Score: 5, Funny

"...China's Ministry of Public Security..."

Sounds suspiciously like the "Ministry of Truth" from to me....

--
http://www.reeb.freeserve.co.uk

Re:1984? by Peden · 2004-12-22 23:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

Exchange that with "Homeland Security" and I think you will get the picture....

Wonder if it works for something useful as well by QuasiRob · 2004-12-22 23:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

The article implies that concerned citizens can report websites that they consider to be illegal somewhere on the www.china.cn website. Might be worth flooding it with reports of all the spam sites operating in China, I just need to find the page to report it on.

--
If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?

It doesnt matter what China does by Timesprout · 2004-12-22 23:33 · Score: 2, Funny

Monty Python said the Chinese were nice, and I quote

"I like Chinese,
I like Chinese,
They only come up to your knees"

So that made it official. We like Chinese.

--
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe

Re:It doesnt matter what China does by LordLucless · 2004-12-23 00:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Better get your own theology straight before you do - AFAIK, no Christian denomination teaches that. Standard Christian theology teaches that hell is the default destination of every human being (ie: not dependant on your misdemeanours) and protestant Christians at least (not too up on Catholic theology) believe that you are saved from hell by the grace of God (again, not dependant on your actions.)

By the by, do you really believe non-living chemicals learnt to walk and talk all by themselves?

--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Re:It doesnt matter what China does by DrSkwid · 2004-12-23 01:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

blah blah theology whatever, who cares, it's all bunkum.

By the by, do you really believe non-living chemicals learnt to walk and talk all by themselves?

Categrorically and without doubt. Belief not necessary. They did, ergo : they did.

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Wond'ring aloud... by Black+Parrot · 2004-12-22 23:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

> The related departments have closed 1,278 illegal web sites and 114 sites promoting gambling, superstitious activities and cult propaganda

Was Slashdot listed under "superstitious activities", or "cult propaganda"?

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-12-23 00:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:We are on the path now by Rhone · 2004-12-23 00:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

Just try to be a true radical online ( or in real life ) now, advocating for the next revolution.. Outlining details techniques and equipment manufacture..

I'm always amused by comments like this on Slashdot. Come on--no government, however "free" the country is, is going to look kindly upon people who advocate overthrowing it. Just because a government was put in place by a revolution doesn't mean it would be perfectly happy with being overthrown by another one.

Re:China is freer in some ways by Burb · 2004-12-23 00:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Freedom can, it's true, be just a superficial veneer. And it's true that the US can be a dreadful place if you are poor. As a middle-class European, I find it a great place to visit but would not necessarily jump at the chance to live there. Most of us don't question the beliefs instilled into us and childhood. To an outsider, it seems that the "saluting of the flag" business at the start of each school day serves to drum into children a belief that the US is a great place to be without providing much evidence of same. Anyway....

China's record on human rights would means that prison is a place where you go if you break the law OR if you a nuisance to the government. Try discussing the Tiananmen square "incident" Communist and post-communist societies like China have still a poor track record in this area. Look carefully and you will find secret laws and loopholes as bad, or worse, than the USA.

--

Gov't Represses Rights of Chinese People by reallocate · 2004-12-23 00:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

The Chinese people have the same rights as Americans or anyone else. We all have the same rights. The Chinese government simply represses the rights of its citizens.

It is both wrong an very dangerous to think our rights come to us as gifts from our governments.

--
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"

Re:Gov't Represses Rights of Chinese People by reallocate · 2004-12-23 01:13 · Score: 2, Informative

Our rights are ours by virtue of our existence. They cannot be "won" from governments because governments do not possess any rights. What we win from governments is the ability to exercise our rights.

--
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"

can we get them to shut down the spammers? by m2bord · 2004-12-23 00:46 · Score: 2, Funny

many spamming websites are hosted in china.
while they are turning off the spigot to squelch dissent, can we please get them to turn off the spam too?

--
Is it 5:30 yet?

Hegemon by kir · 2004-12-23 00:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

I learned a great deal from this book. (Note: By saying this, I'm not pronouncing this book as the bible on China. Don't box me in. Slashdot is good for that.)

Hegemon: China's Plan to Dominate Asia and the World

An excellent review can be found here.

--
3cx.org - A truly bad website.

Re:Whoa by LordLucless · 2004-12-23 00:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

Communism works in some smaller systems - like communes, for example. Or most families. I know my family never practiced a democracy. They key to communism working, it seems, is that those that give up their personal possessions for the greater good do so voluntarily - parents, people working together in a commune, etc. Trying to enforce communism on a group of people that don't want to live communally is what leads to trouble.

--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face

Re:China is freer in some ways by PasteEater · 2004-12-23 00:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

You can't speak out against the government (the more I hear angry, uninformed EU and US Bush protesters, the more I think I might actually enjoy that), you can't openly practice religion (what?? no Catholic priest child molesters, no Christian wackos and their 10 commandments plaques, no Muslim fundamentalists to kill me?), and you can't have websites that spread superstition. And this is bad... how?

You have removed choices for me and for everyone else.

Perhaps you would like me to pick out your clothes for tomorrow. Better yet, I'll decide what kind of car you drive (if I decide you get to drive a car at all) and then I'll figure out if you are worthy of...?

We each make choices everyday. Whether they *seem* like small or large decisions, would you like someone else to make those decisions for you?

--
There are two kinds of people in the world: those with loaded guns, and those who dig.

Re:check your facts by theskeptic · 2004-12-23 01:22 · Score: 2, Informative

Why did the FBI agents raid that Dallas host?

Agents of the United States Federal Bureau of Investigations have raided the offices of internet service provider Infocom in Dallas, Texas. The raid came as a result of information that the company was cooperating with the Holy Land Fund for Relief and Development, suspected of being a Hamas fundraising front. The FBI agents confiscated servers, computers and financial records of Infocom. Several websites came down as a result of the raid, including that of the Holy Land Fund.

Foreign Terrorist Organizations

Maybe this was why that Dallas web host was raided?

Democracy by jfonseca · 2004-12-23 01:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Democracy is a system where the will of the majority should prevail.

The population of China is 10 times that of the USA. Does America really want a democracy in China? Imagine 2 billion people voting on the future of the USA(and the rest of us)...

Should the world stop pretending we like the idea of China guiding us? Or do most of us really want China a democracy?

--
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa

Re:Whoa by jfonseca · 2004-12-23 02:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hey I run a site about tourism in Cuba. I'm not politically driven. Just wanted to make that clear before I say what I have to say.

I've been to Cuba, the dictatorship sucks. But what sucks the most is the US trade embargo.

You know why the US can't open the embargo? Because communism worked in Cuba. They're 100% literate, full college level education for 100% of the adult population, people speak 5 languages in most places, no crime, no drug or organized crime.

The worst part is not being able to use USA plastic money, no american products, nothing american on the streets except 1950's cars.

If the US opened the embargo they'd have a communist paradise right under Florida. But the US doesn't seem to be greateous enough to admit that communism works in small communities.

In small numbers of people it is possible to share and live in community without social darwinism.

If you hate communism as it was in Soviet Union please know that I do too. But that's not the kind of communism I'm talking about because that's not communisn at all.

--
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa

And IndyMedia sites across the world by Homburg · 2004-12-23 02:33 · Score: 2, Informative

I guess this would also be a good time to remind people that the US also managed to shut down 22 IndyMedia sites, administered by groups around the world and physically located in the UK. More from the EFF here.

Re:China is freer in some ways by operagost · 2004-12-23 03:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

In China, prison is where you go if you break the law. In the US, prison is where you go if you break the law and couldn't afford a top-tier lawyer to get you out of it (I am still wondering how Scott Peterson can be sentanced to death in the absence of hard evidence, yet OJ Simpson walks free).

In Communist China, law breaks YOU!

You must be joking. Just because China enforces their unjust, inhumane laws consistently does not make them superior. If you believed that, you'd be posting from *.cn right now. Oh yeah, Slashdot is probably blocked.

--

Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.

Re:Yes that right by arkanes · 2004-12-23 03:54 · Score: 2, Interesting

There are a lot of people who confuse "No, just because you call it religion doesn't mean you can do anything you want" with religious oppression. I suppose from a certain point of view it's valid.

45 of 396 comments (clear)