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Caveats In Reselling DSL Bandwidth To Neighbors?
chrisleetn writes "I'm contemplating getting Slashdot (Speakeasy) 6Mbps broadband or something similar and offering wireless internet access to my neighborhood. Speakeasy even has a plan to allow this. What should I be aware of as far as legal/business/regulatory implications? I know I need to restrict obvious illegal stuff and probably p2p to be safe, but is the local cable modem company going to come after me for competing with them? Has anyone done this who can offer some insight?"
Providing it free as a service probably wouldn't be too difficult. But would it make sense to go through all the hassle for the few bucks you can make?
- To err is human; but to really screw up, you need a computer
At 768 up you would need some way to cap their upload. Otherwise you'd risk a neighbor ruining it for everybody.
In the broadest sense, once people start paying money, no matter how small, the relationship changes.
When connectivity on Sunday at 7am goes down, people will look at where they can get help. If they have a door to knock on, then woe betide you.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
i can't think of a problem. the 802.11b/g spectrum is unlicensed. you can use it for whatever reason you wish. if your kick-ass provider lets you do this, then they won't complain.
as another poster said, is it really worth the trouble when it comes to billing?
also keep in mind that using wireless opens up their computer to the world. make sure folks know this before you let them join your network.
Thats why they'd be pissed, at the very least they would cut off your service.
I think you missed the point. They can't cut his service, because they aren't providing it. What he means is that the CABLE companies might come after him because he is reselling the bandwidth he is getting from his DSL provider.
One reason they might do this is because they would be afraid that he might set some kind of example that their cable customers might expect they could get away with. After the cable company THEN has their own customers doing this, they are forced with the decision of either allowing it themselves, or cutting off their customers. That would be sending business to the competition.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
The NetShare service from Speakeasy does look nice, but let's say you decide to use it with the 6mbps package. It costs $110/month. Don't think you will be making a profit with this type of sharing, at least not considerable profit. It MIGHT cover the cost of the connection, if you find enough willing customers. Let's say you resell 768Kbps to 7 people, for $20/month. You'll be making around $20 after taxes and other overhead costs. Considering Speakeasy's cheapest offering is $40/month, you could potentially resell half that bandwidth to twice the people for the same price ($20.) This would mean around $280 in sales, minus overhead around $140-$150 profit. If you can manage this, wow! One of my main concerns for this type of connection sharing would be the upload bandwidth. If you divide all the upload bandwidth in 14 equal shares, everyone is left with around 50Kbps of usuable upload bandwidth, or around 6 kilobytes per second. They'll all have 90k/sec down (including you). If you can properly set up bandwidth restrictions, these numbers are actually not too shabby, if you don't plan on uploading anything. Now when they are wondering why they get shitty speeds with Bittorrent, they'll go to you, but that's another issue. The NetShare service actually looks pretty usuable. They'll take care of everything (billing and all) but they don't mention profit, only "bringing down the cost of your connection", but I'm sure there's a way to use it for profit. And of course if you don't live in an apartment building, I'd say forget it. You could reach 5-6 houses if you're lucky, and not all will want to share a connection. Also you need to consider teaching all your customers about proper methods of protecting their data. If they're sharing anything and it is used against them, they'll blame you.
It's pretty obvious why the cable company would WANT to go after them (competition bad). The question is, do they have any right to do so? And if not would they do it anyway?
Depends on a lot of different things. First it depends on you. Are you willing to put up with handling billing and tech support? You'll have to make sure people pay you on time, and they won't sometimes, and you'll need to be tech support for them. You need to ask yourself if you are willing to spend the time to do that.
Also depends on what kind of people your neighbours are. A biggie here is what kind of tech support they'll want/demand. Given that you are right next door, they may expect that you should fix ALL their computer problems, if you provide them service. So find out, and if they are the demanding type, decide if you can deal with this, because they are likely to be unhappy if oyu can't.
Along those lines, you need to decide what kind of support you are willing to do. You have to do basic Internet support, that's part of the deal, but what extra support are you willing to do and at what point does it start to cost extra money? Only you can decide on that, but you need to decide before, not after. Lay out the terms in teh beginning, or there will be problems later.
You will also need an AUP, and you probably want some hardware to enforce parts of it (like blocking ports, controlling traffic, etc). A M0n0wall box is a good idea for soemthing like that. However equally important to the harwdare to enforce it is a policy, stated before. Let people know what they can and can't do.
Mostly, it depends on your willingness to be support and the disposition of your neighbours. I provide net for roomate, not neighbours, but you still get the full gamut of people. Some are real easy to work with. My current roomate doesn't even bother me when the net goes down, he knows I know and will get it fixed. Some seem to think that since I provide them net, I should have to fix every problem that happens on their computer.
However, so long as you lay things out before hand, stick to your guns, and are comfortable with providing whatever level of support you commit to, it should work well. This is all assuming you know your neighbours of course. If they are basically just strangers that just happen to live next to you, well then all bets are off.
Ok, so its illegal for me to run some coax from my house to my neighbors so he can 'share' my cableTV connection.
Why would it be legal for me to share my bandwidth?
Go over their house and ask them nicely to stop downloading all that porn during the day.
And get subpoenaed in the divorce proceeding.
And/or get sued for invasion of privacy.
And/or get your car keyed.
And/or get your house burned down.
Why any sane person would want to do this is beyond me. I don't want my neighbors knowing what I do online, nor do I want to know what they do. There's way too much exposure here from a legal and liability point of view to be worth it to anyone, IMHO. The sentiment is admirable, but naive.
The odds are that someone on the 'customer' end of this arrangement is going to be sharing/downloading questionable content at some point after the arrangement is made. The way I see it, one of two things is likely to happen at that point:
1) The "provider" party will notice the traffic somehow, and take steps to prevent it. No matter how this is done, it's likely to ruffle some feathers, if not cause an all out neighbor war. Remember, you have to live next to these people.
2) The "provider" party will not notice the traffic, and $randomlargecompanywithexpensivelawyers will sue them. The MPAA/RIAA/Thought police/etc won't make the effort to determine if it's actually the "provider" user or the "customer" user in this arrangement that is infringing on their copyrights/whatever, their SOP is to sue the user who has paid the ISP for the access. The fact that you've essentially become an ISP will more than likely come out in the proceedings if a lawsuit goes forward, but by that time they've already bankrupted you with legal fees and taken your house.
It's just not worth it.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
"I need to restrict obvious illegal stuff and probably p2p to be safe"
I would cap their bandwidth but don't bother trying to stop them from using p2p. Their own computer is the loser here and as long as you cap their bandwith you wont have to worry about the traffic causing you or other neighbors problems.
Just a thought.
I am not sure what you mean by a "property boundary" in this context. The legal context refers to the boundary between one title and another
I used to be involved in setting up WAN's along freeways for traffic monitoring purposes. We got away with laying our own fibre cable because the freeway alignment way all on one title.
I have heard of a guy who owned two shops side by side. He ran an intercom circuit between the two shops, which is technically illegal here. Not that anybody cared. But if you start doing wi-fi to your neighbours houses, there is a chance that somebody will start to pay attention
http://michaelsmith.id.au
The main reason I say don't do it is because the hassle of collecting money from people is just not worth it. When you set it up, you'll need to set a fee schedule. You'll have people trying to debate with you that "you are making money at their expense", or that they don't think the service is worth it..even if they have already used a month worth of service already. Or someone that just doesn't feel like paying you that month. The time you spend chasing people to pay money can become very onerous. Think of this in addition to getting roped into doing tech support (aka "Why should I pay for something which doesn't work"...even if the doesn't work part is because their computer doesn't work or is not set up right or they mucked with thier computer). For these reasons, I would not do it. It isn't worth it. I resold/shared a internet connection in a house when I was in College - it was a nightmare and a termendous time sink.
and it has value in the business world. Don't rule out giving away the access for free... you never know what you might get in return (and try not to expect too much... some people are leeches by nature).
An example from my own experience. My "day job" is as an emergency physician... and that's what pays the bills. However, computers have been a life-long interest of mine, and I am fairly adept with them. It's a great hobby.
As a side benefit, my hobby gives me something to trade... my nurses and ancillary personnel are forever bringing me broken/virus-ridden computers that I fix for them for nothing. (sometimes it's as simple as dropping in a knoppix CD and running a virus scan). You get unexpected bennies for doing such things... I've received cookies, gift certificates, other food, computer hardware, etc, etc... all for doing something that I enjoy anyway.
This not only works for my staff, but also for business associates ( for instance, drug reps who I've helped out seem to bring me samples more often, which is very helpful for my indigent patients). I've set up networks and wireless hotspots for other physicians, and I'm also the unofficial IT go-to guy for them. Keeping the medical staff happy takes us back to "good will," and has a direct effect on my job security (if the CEO of the hospital decides to replace the ER group, which includes me, a hue-and-cry from the other physicians can save my job).
It's all about making yourself valuable to other people... it creates "good will," which can pay off in all sorts of unexpected ways. Don't go into it expecting a big return, because people can often sense false altruism... but never underestimate what that good will can do.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.