Exeem "Successor" to Suprnova Announced

After the demise of Suprnova, hype has risen over Exeem, the supposed heir apparent to the popular BitTorrent index. Today on Novastream, Sloncek announced it officially, but to me his announcement raised more questions than it did answers. Since the official exeem.com website still isn't up, I've got a few notes below. Thanks to several users on irc.suprnova.org, and Sloncek himself for answering my questions.

First, Exeem really isn't an extension of Suprnova as the hype might have you believe: the connection between the two seems more marketing than anything else. Sloncek has been hired to promote their product as the heir apparent to his popular website, but his involvement really seems to be almost entirely PR. It'll work obviously: my headline on this story mentions Suprnova, and so will hundreds of websites around the world in the coming days. "Yet another p2p app" would not create anywhere near the waves that "Successor to Suprnova Announced" will. I hope that people judge exeem by its own merits and not by its (clever) marketing.

Second, Exeem is pretty much what was rumored earlier: a blending of the tracker, the BitTorrent client, and decentralized indexing. It's Windows only. It's in beta now, and will be out at some indeterminate date in the future. It also has a rating and commenting system which appears to be somewhat rudimentary. It's unclear to me if the rating system will be as useless as other attempts, and I think this is the critical thing: Suprnova succeeded because the content available on it was verified and trustworthy. Suprnova was as much the work of a few dozen editors as it was a list of torrent URLs. So far no other p2p system has achieved that level of accuracy. Exeem supports magnet sites which is a start, but not exactly p2p either. And did I mention that it's adware?

Third, there's a mystery company. Someone is paying Sloncek. He won't say who, but there's a history in the p2p world of secretive development. Since Exeem is to be adware, someday it will have a billing address, which means the legal issues faced by predecessors like Napster and Kazaa will be forthcoming, which is of course why we have a mystery company that Sloncek won't talk about in the first place. We definitely haven't heard the last of this.

Personally I was hoping for more: source code and cross platform compatibility never hurts. These are the things that made BitTorrent a huge success. I guess I was hoping for a new protocol instead of just another Kazaa. I guess I was hoping for a monumental leap, and instead Exeem to be a more incremental step. I'm sure we'll learn more in the coming weeks.

Comments

Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[Tet]

I can't help but wonder if BitTorrent is the application that finally pushes people towards Freenet. That would appear to be the obvious way of decentralizing it, without requiring platform specific software, and providing anonymity for both producers and consumers in the process.

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[user9918277462]

Unfortunately Freenet is an incredibly inefficient method of data transfer. Remember it was designed with security and anonymity as top priorities, performance comes as a distant third.

I was hoping for a more innovative p2p app, perhaps combining the advantages of VPN-type systems like WASTE or DirectConnect with the swarming efficiency of BitTorrent. Such a system would truly take the world by storm.

At the same time it seemed obvious that Exeem wouldn't be such a system. From rumors circulating after the start of the closed beta (not a good sign to begin with) it became apparent that Exeem was just another closed-source proprietary network. It's really unfortunate but not at all surprising.

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[gremlins]

I don't see why freenet is such a great way to serve up torrents. When you run the torrents they can still find you the only diffrence between this and how something like emule works is you have to use freenet. Might as well just have the clients also host the torrent and you just search the client.

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[jr87]

their are several problems with freenet...#1 it's slow as hell (at least when I tried it) #2 it has become a haven for kiddie pr0n #3 you become a node holding said kiddie pr0n because you have no control over what you cache.... I think freenet is a good thing overall...but I cannot justify being a node on freenet because I do not feel right helping traffic kiddie pr0n... now if a mass exodus occured that marginalized these people I would feel better...but atm their is a helluva lot of kiddie pr0n on their...

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[Ziviyr]

If theres that much of that there, and you've been looking at it, you've been extending it's cache time.

If you want it to have respectable content, use it to browse respectable content. (and inject respectable content if you can)

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[timeOday]

Perhaps you would use freenet to acquire just the .torrent files themselves. Isn't that what suprnova.org was - just a centralized directory to lots of torrent "tracker" servers?

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet you have no problem trafficking in pirated copyrighted material or prostituting your freeipods referral URL. How ironic.

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[Minna Kirai]

Unfortunately Freenet is an incredibly inefficient method of data transfer.

Which is obviously why they suggested using freenet only to replace the function of supernova: distributing tiny *.torrent files, rather than the huge files being traded.

Under that plan, it is still possible for a detective to connect to a bittorrent tracker and log IP addresses, so it doesn't create the same protection from lawsuits as a full-freenet system would. But, there is no longer a single webmaster as a point-of-failure ("point of lawsuit"?), as there was when supernova.org was shuttered.

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[cduffy]

That solves plenty. Note that they're suing not the individual users, but rather the folks hosting the sites with links to trackers? That's because they get much better bang-for-buck that way.

If the only folks they can sue are the individual infringing users, their ability to shut down the rampant misuse of BitTorrent for massive copyright violation is dramatically decreased.

Re:Torrent trackers on Freenet?

[itistoday]

Torrent files are useless without trackers. What would be interesting is if Freenet could be setup as a Bittorrent tracker, but that would require quite the rewrite...

adware?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

There's going to be ads and crud with eXeem?

So basicly it's Kazaa without the quality of programming.

Goodie.

Re:adware?

[SnAzBaZ]

I for one have no intention if even trying this piece of rubbish, but I welcome it simply for the fact that it will attract attention away from the more traditional torrent sites that seem to be getting so much unwanted legal attention at present.

I dont understand

[Agret]

what makes this better than other peer2peer programs like limewire or bearshare or mldonkey. If you remove the tracker/website approach then all the stuff out there becomes unverified and you lose the appeal of using BitTorrent.

eXeem beta.

[Eeknay]

If you know where to look, there's a closed beta of eXeem avaliable - however, it needs a beta key in order to join the network - and it can't be a random key, i.e. it's assigned by the Suprnova team. At the time of writing, the version I have is 0.16, and does NOT include any adverts of some sort, although yes Sloncek did confirm this earlier this evening.

The basic user interface is friendly, and it's basically a "compact" version of Kazaa (you have to use it to really understand).

As for the release date, it "won't be this week, or next week, but very very soon". It'll be an open beta, to chink out all the bugs.

Censorship resistant networks

[Morganth]

Shouldn't these developers take a look at some of the research in this area?

Tangler, FreeHaven, and Publius come to mind.

Adware enclosed, windows binaries only?

[nurb432]

No thanks ..

But at least they are upfront about it.

Is there any good FAQ on the algorithm used?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bittorrent has some interesting methods of making sure all parts of a file are available (sharing rarest parts first, for example), but I've been unable to find a complete list of how a file is shared.

There are some things I think would be interesting additions, such as sharing a the rarest part to users with the quickest turnaround time (determine how long it takes to download the file and then immediately upload it, and choose the person with the shortest time). Of course, that might already be the case, but I haven't been able to find out.

Ethics

[BossMC]

This is probably really offtopic, but that's OK because I have bad karma anyways, and no one is going to see this.

I am a student in university, and I don't have much money to my name, so I don't buy DVDs, music CDs, and so on. What do I do instead? Simple: I download them for free off of the internet. Now I get to watch movies and listen to music without spending money. I relate it to taking donuts out of a dumpster being Tim Hortons after hours.

I don't even consider things like "freedom" or "ethics," or anything for that matter. I enjoy getting something for nothing. I like it when things are one click away.

I know that it makes some people very sad to hear this, but that's Ok with me. I am a good friend and human being, and I feel really bad about the disaster in Asia. I just don't care to pay fucking money for a movie.

Thanks for listening.

Re:Ethics

[Fragglebabe]

I'm a student as well, and i often find that I cannot spend money on movies and music because I can't make ends meet. I completely understand why you download things, and i often download music and movies and tv programs myself. But i did just want to present a slightly different view of uni students.

I feel guilty that i download things. And, in general, i only use it as a stopgap while i earn more money, and as a trial to see if it is worth spending my hard-earned cash on the dvd or cd or whatever. I do not think that i should be deemed a bad person because i do this, and i most certainly should not be deemed lazy.

You may think what you like about me, but i know that my downloading of things is only because i can't afford the legal alternative. and yes, you may say to me that i should go without, but have you tried living for 6 months without seeing a new movie?

so the guy above may not care about paying money to see a movie, but i do. there just isn't much i can do about it, until i fall upon happier times.

Re:"Nothing for you to see here, please move along

[Vengie]

The reason i'm being plusmodded funny is the TITLE of my post. If you click on a slashdot story before it backpropagates (I'm not quite sure how the slashcode works) you get an ERROR (Title bar set to "Slashdot error) from /. that says "Nothing for you to see here, please move along." The reason it is -1 OBVIOUS, is because there's a big white/blank page staring you in the face....

Luckily, you didn't have mod points and those that do get the joke.
*sigh*

Re:The Obvious Question

[Zocalo]

Broadcast TV shows is about the only thing I use BitTorrent for, but not quite for the same reason you cite, and the occasional album I'm in two minds over getting the CD of, and usually end up getting anyway... Movies I'd rather see in a cinema, or just wait the extra few months and rent the DVD for the extra video/sound quality. I did try using it for Linux distros too, but since I usually wait a while after the release for any major bugs to come out that has two effects: the FTP mirrors are largely idle again and so are the trackers. It's far more convenient to just hit one of the geographically local mirrors overnight when their bandwidth is more likely to be idle anyway.

TV shows are my BitTorrent mainstay though; getting US shows outside the US is a nightmare; I thought the UK was bad, but while doing a little globe trotting at the moment I've found out I actually had it pretty good at home. By "pretty good" I mean that usually you can buy the DVDs of a show *before* the damn thing airs on terrestrial television which is, quite frankly, a ridiculous situation. I mean, who is going to watch a TV show, probably with adverts, if they already have an ad-free version of DVD? Plus, try as you might, if you like to watch shows without seeing any spoilers then grabbing the thing off BitTorrent is the only way to be sure.

Personally, I think a TV show/movie based version of something like iTunes would work; monthly subscription, per file billing or both doesn't matter. P2P has proven itself a viable distribution method for the media files, there's clearly an audience for data and it gives the MPAA the same "legal alternative" argument the RIAA likes to spout. It's not like they stand to lose much, unless they are worried that the DMCA won't stop a DRM removal tool from being released shortly after the launch...

What someone needs to do...

[Anita Coney]

... is create a SuprNova styled website filled with completely legal torrents. For example, drivers, game demos and updates, Linux and other open source distributions, public domain stuff, share/freeware, etc. We have to let politicians know that p2p has practical legal uses.

sold out ?

[eyegee88]

So, the "mighty" owner of suprnova closed his website.
Very nice.

He advocates this new technology.

Who said the MPAA/RIAA did not stuff him some "funds" to provide the people some nice software
(ie: adware) that cleanly informs those nice
associations with the ip address of every peer/seeder. Think about it.

who did say the new software does not harvest ip
addresses and nicely hands em over to some place
accessible to the MPAA/RIAA ?

I do not know about you, but I am convinced some
donated funds from MPAA/RIAA could change the mind
of any site owner to join the " side"

just 0.02 euro

Re:Why would I care?

[gad_zuki!]

And what was so great about suprnova? They are just an empty brand. Hell, they weren't even a tracker. What a scam they were running. People would find or start their own trackers, seed, and then give the suprnova people a link to the torrent while the suprnova people shoved 10 ads in your face.

I expect more people to be using eMule and bitorrent index sites to be hosted overseas while this exeed app dies the death of the empty branded hype with no substance that it is. Its just some company that saw the writing on the wall and paid off the suprnova kiddies to promote it. Big deal. Bittorrent if far from dead. The "russian" suprnova is up and works fine and at least the loki people are putting up some kind of fight so the technology isnt just considered illegal outright.

P2P is dead

[Anonymous Coward]

At least for people in the US, P2P apps are being well fought by the MPAA. I left an eMule session running overnight with a couple of movies shared, and three weeks later my ISP (Adelphia) cut off my internet access. I was able to reinstate it, but if it happens again, I'll have to jump ship to DSL. There doesn't appear to be any way to appeal the decision, so if my neighbor is using P2P over my wireless connection, I'm equally fucked.

Any protocol that allows "show me what you're sharing" type command or maps content to IP addresses is inherently vulnerable to these 3rd party organizations that are being hired by the MPAA. It's a trival matter for them to fire off violation notices to ISPs at high volumes.

Thus, I would suggest:

An offshore site that allows users to remotely (over SSL or MSTSC) use P2P apps to download to local disks, and then permits transfer via SSL to their local machines.

A virus/worm that pretends to be popular P2P apps and appears to be sharing copyrighted material. Result: almost everyone in the US appears to be sharing, overloading the people monitoring such things.

People familiar with the law need to see what the loopholes are (e.g. IANAL, but I have heard that sharing less than an entire "piece" is legally different than sharing the whole thing...don't know if this is true, just an example). Result: we use the law against the same people who are using it against us.

I don't want to come off as an evil pirate here. I simply feel that:

Intellectual property needs a serious reworking.

When you don't offer your customers what they want (e.g. on-demand without-commercials video), and what they want is technologically achievable, the customers will use the technology, even if it happens to be illegal.

I pay $150 for cable + internet + HDTV channels. I would gladly pay the same for a single channel of on-demand video, and more for the same without any commercials.

Bittorrent will beat Bittorrent

[Quash]

The successor to Bittorrent is.... Bittorrent. Killing Suprnova is the *best* thing that ever happened. That is exactly the form of decentralization that was necessary. Forget Exeem, or whatever it's called. Just continue to move to the hottest bittorrent site that has your file until it's shut down and them move to the next. Do people actually think the long arm of the U.S. law is that long??? I can't follow the bouncing ball around the world continuously with success. Stay with bittorrent, forget that new P2P and just move to the next Bittorrent site.

Indeed! What about MUTE?

[Chordonblue]

MUTE is a program I've enjoyed supporting directly. .4 was just released this week and has several improvements.

While it may not be as secure as Freenet, it does take advantage of IP obfustication and is a fair bit faster. No one user knows what machine is connected to what data. With enough users, it would virtually be impossible to determine data origin.

The author of the program continues to make progress as the funds continue to roll in - fair enough.

Give it a try at: mute-net.sf.net and think about supporting the ongoing project. It certainly seems to have more plusses than Exeem!

Re:EXEEM SUCKS (READ)

[eretan]

Actually, now that I read your post again, I have a few questions.

A few of the modifications sound like BT2. First about the subdirectories. BT2 (Bittorrent2) also has this modification; this is just so that the torrent name (which also surve as root dir) is not part of the torrent hash. People have been having trouble changing the torrent name without changing the torrent hash with BT1. This is important in BT1 because many torrent sites only look at the torrent name within the file, and list that name. If that name happens to be inaccurately named there is no way but to create a whole new torrent, since changing the torrent name means changing the torrent hash. Now this seems like a minor/useless modification in a network in which listing on a torrent site doesn't really matter (actually you can't), but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is a bad modificiaton.

Also, it is a given that "announce" and "announce-list" are missing... after all there is no fixed tracker.

Also, are you sure the central "tracker" is needed for the users to stay online the eXeem network? I was under the impression that the "tracker" (or "server") exists just to bootstrap new people onto eXeem. If the central "tracker"/"server" is indeed like you say, it seems even more like BT2... (the "tracker"/"server" being the "hub" that redirects peers to the real "trackers")

Don't get me wrong... I never really had high expectations for eXeem... especially now since it is closed-source and ad supported. But I was just unclear on a few things that you were talking about...

Re:Corporatization

[rxmd]

Does anybody care about napster.com since it was corporatized?

Napster was a company right from the start. Someone had to be running the Napster servers. The fact that they had no business model worth speaking of and that they were later bought out doesn't change their initial commercial nature.

Re:Anonymous bittorrent already exists

[N3wsByt3]

"Why this hasn't been on slashdot is beyond me."

Probably because they explicitly asked *NOT* to put it on slashdot, which you probably knew, my dear anonymous coward!

Also anarchy online

[gad_zuki!]

Used it to send out their 800+ meg installer for their free 12 month trial. I remember some game demo sites using it too.

the flaw of the 'encouraging/promoting' reasoning

[N3wsByt3]

"...simply because distributors of such material feel safer in distributing it, means that more people will upload more. I think that counts as encouraging."

So, because they feel safer, the prog itself is 'encouraging' it, and can't be used? Proxies may feel more safe for them, encryption may make them feel more safe, heck, maybe the internet istelf! Should we not use any of those tools, then?

Come to think of it, digital camera's may make them feel more safe: no need to go to a photo-developer anymore! So the same argumentation is possible to say digital cameras and the like is 'encouraging' CP; yet, I think most would see the absurdity of it. It's as absurd to say Freenet 'encourages' it, however - unless you interpret 'encourage' in the broadest way, in which case you can forbid all tools, basically. I'm sure the RIAA will like a broad interpretation of 'encouraging', however, especially when INDUCE gets passed. Then they can sue every P2P application (and many others) in existence.