Time Sharing Cars

timmy_walker writes "This article from the associated press talks about new car time share services from ZipCar and Seattle-based Flexcar, where "Customers make reservations via computer or telephone, and the company uses remote-access systems to control who can use the car when.""

Comments

Time Share

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to have a Ford Fiesta which I used to time share, between me and the goddamn mechanics.

Re:Time Share

[bfizzle]

But instead you paid them to rent it out for the weekend.

There are many others out there.

[sjrstory]

This is much like Autoshare in Toronto, Canada. There are many others as well. A good resource can be found here.

Other Rental Services

[jgclark123]

Why stop at cars? Instead of mail-order brides, rent-a-wife!

Re:Other Rental Services

[gloth]

Think of it: rent-a-wife / get-a-hooker is one of the oldest businesses out there. A heck of a lot older than car sharing!

Re:Other Rental Services

[complete loony]

So you want to pay someone to come over to your house on a temporary basis and nag you and withhold sex because of some perceived slight that you don't even remember?

Re:Other Rental Services

[lsmeg]

Why stop at cars? Instead of mail-order brides, rent-a-wife!

In fact the same company could offer both services and call itself Rent-a-Ride...

They have this in the UK

[l-ascorbic]

There's a very similar sounding system running in the UK, in London, Edinburgh, Bristol and Brighton. It's run by Smart Moves, and involves cars that are parked in designated spots, booked by phone or web, with access via smartcard. It's been quite polular here in Bristol, by all accounts, and many new housing developments are including car club spaces in their plans.

nice but

[spac3manspiff]

Public transportation is more convenient and cheaper.

Re:nice but

[smonner]

More convenient than a car? Maybe in some cities, but certainly not all. There are a lot of areas in my city that would require several transfers and a lot of time to get to by public transport. So assuming the car was in a resonable location relative to my starting point/home, this could be ideal.

Re:nice but

[Anonymous Coward]

Public transportation is more convenient and cheaper.

I'd say "convenient" can be defined several different ways. For instance, is it more convenient for me to spend half of my travel time waiting for buses and trains on a Sunday, or would I rather spend the 9 bucks an hour and rent one of these things and actually spend my time getting around and doing what I need to do? It's also certainly more convenient if I need to make a trip to Home Depot to grab a bunch of crap...

Re:nice but

[convolvatron]

sure. when it is. i normally take the bus in seattle or walk. but on the odd occasion that i need to drive out to the burbs to buy something or visit friends i can without having to deal with a cab. they only charge me when i use it, which is rarely. its nice to have the option.

my only complaint is that the stupid web site only deals with ie, so i'm stuck using the fairly painful phone menu.

Re:nice but

[blincoln]

Public transportation is more convenient and cheaper.

Yes, it's certainly more convenient to take groceries, home electronics, etc. etc. home on the bus.

It's certainly more convenient to try and get home from a club on the bus only to realize that they stopped running at 11:30PM because your city is too poor to run them any later.

It's certainly more convenient to wait half an hour (or more) in the rain, because the last one came by five minutes early.

Public transportation is shit. I've had to deal with it for the last ten years in two cities. It's filthy, it's slow, I can't take anything substantial on it, and it doesn't go where I need to. I bought a car eight months ago, and it's been great. I can get places in ten minutes that used to take me an hour or more each way on the bus. I can go buy things at stores instead of mail-ordering them. On Monday I get a parking pass for my building at work, and then I can finally ditch the last vestiges of my reliance on public transportation and not have to worry about being half an hour late if I get out the door a minute later than I planned.

Time-sharing a car seems like an ideal plan for someone who wants that level of convenience but not the pricetag that comes along with actually owning one.

Re:nice but

[Atrax]

Public transportation is more convenient and cheaper.

This is very true, as long as where you're heading is serviced by public transport, without and excessive number of changes.

I work about 15kms outside the middle of Sydney (North Ryde). Luckily, I live within a short walk of the main bus terminal in the Centre (QVB). If I lived in the Eastern Suburbs somewhere, I'd have to catch a train or bus in, then my usual bus out again, which is frankly a pain, and quite time consuming. None of my immediate colleagues use PT for this very reason. It's painful for them, so they drive (and incidentally bitch about the traffic). I don't think it occurs to the two who live close to each other to carpool, but that's another story.

Now cycling, that's different. It's a good ride on a decent day, takes roughly an hour for me, which is only 15 mins more than the walk/bus combo. It's more environmentally sound than Public Transport, you've as much freedom of destination as with a car, and your health is miraculously improved (though your chances of being maimed by traffic are probably higher). The initial investment is only a couple of hundred bucks, if you're not a gadget freak like me and end up spending way too much on titanium bits.

Of course if more people used PT, then PT could service more areas, this is obvious, but as things stand public transport is only a partial solution (and I'm an advocate of it)

Re:nice but

[Atrax]

> Public transportation is so ridiculously less convenient than a car that I can't believe anyone would say otherwise except in jest.

> And it's only cheaper if your time isn't worth anything.

you could always use your time on public transport productively. Got a laptop? Read Books? listen to talking books, even?

You can get some decent research time on a middle-to-long bus ride. Try reading a study guide while driving and see where that gets you.

Re:nice but

[Feanturi]

Cheaper, yes, but how is it more convenient? I guess it depends on how good your public transport is. My job involves a shift that begins at 6am. The very earliest I can get there by bus is 6:20, and that is of course just to somewhere down the street from the building, it'll be a bit later than that before I can actually report in and be ready for work. And that's even optimistic because they cannot guarantee that the second bus I have to transfer to will not have come and gone early, or that my first bus will not be a couple minutes late, leaving me to wait another 15 minutes while still only half-way there.

Under better conditions, like not having to work until 8, one can plan against such schedule problems caused by traffic and plan to be there half an hour early every day. Great, but the trip is still taking three times as long as it would by car, and I have better things to do. Picking up something on the way home from work is a chore, as you've got to have it planned out for each place you might want to visit along the way, are limited in what you can lug around, and are basically a slave to their schedules. With my car (which I will admit is the main reason I have to keep a careful budget) I can move about freely, whenever I want to, never waiting in the cold, for it never leaves without me. I'm also one of those people that finds driving relaxing, even city driving. I'm very low-risk for road-rage, driving's just fun. :) Anyhow, it's way more convenient than the bus, at least where I live, and it is well-worth the money to me. Missing the bus, waiting in the cold, having to leave evening events earlier than others, these things stress me out and make me unhappy. It turns out that money really can buy happiness, in some forms.

Re:nice but

[drinkypoo]

Cheaper yes, more convenient no. When I lived in SF I could drive for 5-10 minutes to work, spend 0-5 minutes finding parking within a couple blocks, and be done. Taking public transport to work required two buses and the muni train and took 30 to 60 minutes. As a network admin, I found this to be highly impractical, but it would be plenty bad for other people too. Mind you, SF has one of the best public transportation systems in the US, so basically I am calling bullshit. Let's not even get into stuff like going shopping for a family, or making a trip to the ER without paying a grand or more for an ambulance ride. These are things simply not reasonable to do with public transportation (except that a cab might get to you faster and be cheaper than an ambulance...)

Re:nice but

[jhw3]

I lived in Cambridge MA until this past spring and was a Zipcar member for about two years. The system is streamlined and works incredibly smoothly. Any problems I had with car bookings were my own fault (i.e. booking a car for 11 p.m. instead of 11 a.m.). It works so well with the Web that it is impossible to imagine something like Zipcar being workable before the Internet age.

For a long time, Zipcar tried to foster a sense of community in which abusing the cars (leaving garbage, empty fuel tanks, smoking, etc.) was highly discouraged. It would happen occasionally, but it was rare. They had somehow avoided the "tragedy of the commons".

Zipcar really fills a niche. It's not meant to be a bus replacement service, but is incredibly convenient for groceries and (especially) evening outings to MBTA-inaccessible suburbs. It was also really handy for times when you needed a van or station wagon. Overall we got by car-free in Boston with the help of Zipcar and public transit for everyday commuting (Zipcar isn't meant for commuting and those who use it for that purpose end up paying a lot).

When I left Boston Zipcar seemed to be moving in more of a "fancy lifestyle" direction, stocking their fleet with Mini Coopers and other snazzy but not necessarily cost-efficient cars for those who wanted to impress. I hope this move doesn't destroy the hippie public spirit of Zipcar.

Re:nice but

[tepples]

I'd imagine that the government's responsibility to take care of people with disabilities comes from an interpretation (allegedly a stretching) of Amendment 14 to the US Constitution: "nor shall any State ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." States delegate powers to municipal governments; thus, Amendment 14 applies to municipal governments as well.

policy

[nwerneck]

I would really like to know what time sharing policy they are implementing... Fastest job first? FIFO? Multiple lines? random??...

Running late?

[Lord_Dweomer]

Can anybody here who's familiar with similar systems comment on how reliable it is? I mean, I've lost count of all the things that could mess with the scheduling required for a system like this...traffic...accidents...slow driving...getting lost...

Re:Running late?

[g3000]

I haven't used it, but I have a good friend who uses Flexcar here in Seattle.

According to her, it's not a "dream solution." There has been a time or two when the car in the spot closest to her apartment hasn't been available on short notice, etc. etc. But Flexcar did ultimately make it possible for her to make the leap to get rid of her personal car altogether. She lives and works downtown and uses the bus system, but was holding on to her car for that one-Saturday-a-month when she would make the big grocery store run, do the miscellaneous errands that took her to other parts of the city, and/or pick up something too big to carry alone on a bus.

Without Flexcar, she would have had to meet the expense of keeping the car around for those odd occasions, as Seattle is not quite ready for most young professional types to live by public transportation alone, a la New York City.

Meh

[t_allardyce]

People have cars for privacy - its your own little home on wheels you can take anywhere, this is just a gloryfied rental car? Just get the bus...

Keeping them clean?

[bfizzle]

How do they keep people from smoking in these things or keeping people from trashing them? Spilled coffee Someone's kid getting car sick Fast food wrappers Someone's homless person or dog shitting all over the thing? Seems like their would be a huge reduction of accountibility for these cars.

Re:Keeping them clean?

[Schmucky The Cat]

http://www.flexcar.com/personal/fees.asp?mlp=seatt le&plp=5&thisRegion=Seattle+Metro&rc=1

Smoking/Pets Fee: Fee for smoking in a vehicle or carrying pets without a pet carrier is $200.

Cleaning Fee: Emergency vehicle cleaning (interior not ready for next member) is $200 plus costs.

etc.

Re:Keeping them clean?

[bfizzle]

Hmmm.. very interesting incentives:

Other Fees/Credits

General Membership Fee:
All plans require an annual fee and selection of a rate plan. Members may change rate plans before the last day of the month at no charge.

Reservation Cancellation Fee:
Reservations may begin and/or end on the hour or half-hour. No charge for cancellation if reservation is cancelled within one hour of making reservation or more than 8 hours before scheduled use. Otherwise member will be charged rates for all hours reserved less any hours used by another member.

Premium Class Vehicle Fee:
Premium vehicles, denoted on the Website, are $2 more/hour. Fee waived for Advantage 100 Plan members.

Late Return Fee:
If a vehicle is returned late you will be charged a $20 fee plus incurred costs (up to $100). Late fee is waived if Flexcar is notified in advance of late return (other fees may still apply, i.e., cab fare).

Inconvenience Fee:
Member will be charged $75 plus costs for inconveniencing other members (no fuel, no ignition key, car not parked in Flexcar spot, etc.).

Damage Fee:
Member is responsible for the first $500 of $1,000 deductible for any damage to the vehicles. If you do not report damage you may be held responsible for the first $750 of the $1,000 deductible. Insurance policy information is available at each Flexcar office.

Smoking/Pets Fee:
Fee for smoking in a vehicle or carrying pets without a pet carrier is $200.

Cleaning Fee:
Emergency vehicle cleaning (interior not ready for next member) is $200 plus costs.

Ignition Key Replacement Fee:
Vehicle ignition key replacement fee is $75/hour plus materials.

Remote Unlocking Fee:
Remote unlocking of Flexcar vehicle is $15.

Keycard Replacement Fee:
Members will be charged $15 for a new Flexcar KeyCard.

Parking Tickets:
Member is responsible for all parking tickets during trip. Investigation, resolution of parking, towing, tickets, etc. is $20/hour plus costs.

Vehicle Washing Credit:
Members earn a $5 credit plus reimbursement (up to $12 total) for washing vehicle (receipt required).

Gasoline Credit:
Members receive a $2 credit for refueling (required if tank is at ¼ or less upon return of the vehicle).

Referral Credit:
Members who refer new members receive a $20 credit per new member.

Re:Keeping them clean?

[bfizzle]

Seattle Metro Rate Plans

PLAN COST DETAILS
Standard $9.00 per Hour Each hour includes 30 free miles.
Advantage 5 $43.75 per Month Up to 5 hours and 150 miles.
Advantage 10 $85.00 per Month Up to 10 hours and 300 miles.
Advantage 25 $200.00 per Month Up to 25 hours and 750 miles.
Advantage 50 $375.00 per Month Up to 50 hours and 1500 miles.
Advantage 100 $700.00 per Month Up to 100 hours and 3000 miles.
Advantage 200 $1350.00 per Month Up to 200 hours and 6000 miles.
Advantage 300 $1950.00 per Month Up to 300 hours and 9000 miles.

Re:Keeping them clean?

[reagan9000]

You are accountable because someone is always going to be using the car after you. If I find that the car is filthy or been puked in or whatever, I call the vendor and they pinch the guy who rented the car before me. Zipcar members are typically renting the car for short 2 hour errands. The pricing discourages long trips, and so discourages candy wrappers, puking, etc. that long trips entail. Zipcar (which I was a member of until I bought my own car) had someone who maintained the car. Zipcar worked pretty well for me, although the cars were difficult to reserve on the weekend. The car was always in pretty good shape and fairly clean. The biggest problem for me was that the guy in front of me would invariably be late in returning the car. I had to wait 45 minutes one time.

Must offer something better

[RomanD]

I agree about public transportation but this is why Zipcar must offer something that is not possible with taxi or public transport. Pickup trucks per hour for example. Living in a college town like Boston, people are always moving things but being away from home and parents no noone has cars/trunks.

Won't scale well

[FuturePastNow]

This may work on a small scale, but I know how people treat rental cars, and many people trash the cars that they own. I'm supposed to drive one of these things after Comic Book Guy does God knows what in the back seat? I don't think so.

Right now these companies have a limited membership that they can screen. But this will never survive the transition to big-time.

Re:Won't scale well

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not have a rating system, like Ebay.

When you receive a car, you score the condition it is in online. If you want a good score, you better make sure the car is clean when you are finished, even if the pig before you made a mess.

Each member is then scored based on how he handed the car off to the next person. Groups can then be formed around ratings. Each group has a minimum score - if a user meets the requirement, he can join the group and borrow the car.

This way, slobs who don't pick up after themselves, or who don't really care if the car is well cleaned will get that type of car. Neat-freaks will receive perfectly clean vehicles.

Is this news?

[lar3ry]

I first found out about ZipCar from an advert in a T station (subway for those of you not in New England) in Boston. This had to be a few years ago--possibly 2001.

Since I live in NH, it wasn't available to me at the time, but I thought it was intriguing, especially for people that don't drive that often.

Good Idea

[Average_Joe_Sixpack]

Is there anyone out there who'd like to share their Ferrari or Porsche with me? I'm not picky, either will suffice ...

Ottawa's Cool Car Sharing Program

[Darklamp]

In Ottawa they have a very successful car sharing program. Have a look at their website: http://www.vrtucar.com/ They are mostly using Ford Focuses and I think they even have a mini-van for share. I believe it is a great idea in any urban area. Insurance rates are pretty costly in the area.

Dent-and-scratch

[ZeeExSixAre]

Who's going to be responsible for all the dent-and-scratch stuff on the cars? Sensors wouldn't pick it up because it's not violent enough. Unless people are examining the cars before they get to the next user, there's sure to be a lot of finger-pointing.

In metro areas, bicycles are vastly faster anyways. If you can stand to get sweaty, that is...

Re:Dent-and-scratch

[tverbeek]

Why, exactly, do dings and scratches matter?

Seriously, I've never really understood this fetish people have for mint-condition vehicles. My last car had a noticeable dent in one of its side panels for years. I saved a small fortune by not having it restored to factory condition. And yet its "car" functionality was completely unaffected. And since the guy I ended up selling it to just wanted a means of transportation (not a penis substitute), this "defect" didn't even affect its resale value. And when you're talking about a vehicle the drivers won't even own... why should anyone care if there's a ding in the door?

Re:Dent-and-scratch

[Tassach]

Why, exactly, do dings and scratches matter?

They matter because the cosmetic appearance of a vehicle is a pretty reliable indicatator of how well the previous owner maintained it. Someone too lazy to wash their car or fix minor dings is also probably too lazy to change the fluids reguarly and do other routine maintenance.

They matter because little dings, left unrepaired, become big rust spots.

They matter for the same reason that small holes and stains in your clothes matter.

Re:Dent-and-scratch

[zipwow]

If you can stand to get sweaty, that is...

Or rained-on, or frozen, or snowed-on. And can shower/warm up/treat frostbite at work.

Bikes are nice, but they're not an ultimate solution in most of the country. Think Minneapolis. Think Denver. Hell, it's cold enough in Seattle that only the hard-core greens bike year round. Even then it only works if you have shower facilities at work.

-Zipwow

Re:Dent-and-scratch

[Kiryat Malachi]

All of this is true.

All of this doesn't matter for a shared car service; cosmetic condition is (relatively) unimportant, so long as the car service is maintaining the car properly.

Dings are totally unimportant - scratches more so, since they do provide a vector for rust to attack the metal.

A great idea that needs more press.

[Cervantes]

There are times when public tranportation is useful... I was a bus man for many years.

But, frankly, there's times when it's a pain... it's off-peak hours, the weather is crappy, you have to go a long distance with several transfers, you're picking up something that can't be easily carried around, you're going on a date (well, not YOU, per se... but a non-slashdot reader).

I got quite sick of planning to be on the bus several hours per day when I worked on the far side of the city, but I couldn't afford the incredibly outrageous amounts for a car.

I mean, come on folks... it's a freakin CAR, it's not made of gold, it doesn't come with a built-in treasure map... why in the name of Linus should a chunk of metal that explodes dead dinosaurs to move cost $40,000+, and have insurance, consumables, and maintenance that can add up to many thousands per year more? I think they're priced that way because we're all conditioned to think that they should be expensive.

But, I digress. I wish this had been available when it was the right time of life for me to use it... a convenient way to have occasional access to a vehicle (an occasional requirement in a city with an extremely low population density like Edmonton) without having to bend over and take it up the ass from all the fuckers who seem to think that because the word "auto" has 4 letters, all the associated costs should have 4 digits (significant). I hope projects like these get more coverage, and help stop the rush of people going out to buy cars they can't afford with loans they can't afford on income they can't guarantee.

Re:Right......

[KillerDeathRobot]

Except that when your cheap used car sits there not being used, you're still paying for insurance, and possibly parking. On top of that you have to try to find the cheapest gas station you can when you drive your own car, while the flexcar or zipcar price is flat and includes gas. And don't forget how much maintenance adds to the cost of a "cheap" used car.

Lacking Accountability and Ownership

[Indy Media Watch]

Remember Lawrence Summers dictum:

"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car"

Re:Lacking Accountability and Ownership

[zipwow]

Another poster points out that that's why Flexcar has staff. They change the oil more regularly than you do, they rotate the tires more often than you do, they have the car tuned more often than you do.

And, should you like to make yourself $5, Flexcar will also *pay you* to wash the car. It's a nice touch, when you've got extra time and have to put gas in it anyway.

Which, by the way they pay for. AND they pay you $2 when you put their gas in it when it's under half a tank.

-Zipwow

Damn!

[Black Parrot]

I forgot to reserve the getaway car!

It's too expensive.

[Schmucky The Cat]

FlexCar charges both by the mile (35 cents) and by the hour (9 dollars) with a small number of free miles for each hour (generally 30).

I live in Seattle and haven't been enthused about it.

To take a flex car to somewhere close but inconvenient that isn't served by bus, say a doctor appointment where you need time, is going to cost about $30 just for the time.

Or a trip to a nearby city, (Seattle to Everett) that might take an hour to drive there and back, but easily put 100 miles on a car... again, $30.

At the $30 mark, you can easily get a rental car for the entire day. Most real rental cars have enough free miles to make nearby but long trips.

Truly I don't know anyone who pays for FlexCar out of their own money who keeps using it.

I'd really like it if I could just grab a FlexCar on some one-way trips, like when I see one parked in a Park and Ride, it's cold, and my bus is late... but you have to return it where you find it and it's not quite so spontaneous to take them. C'est la vie, it hasn't worked for me.

Re:Doesn't cost $40,000

[bfizzle]

Chances are the damn Toyota won't break down either. Mine had over 200k miles on it before someone rear ended it and the only part I had to replace was a batery and a few mufflers (ya for lifetime warrenties).

Even new cars aren't $40k. You can even pickup new cars for around $12k if you want something a little more reliable or fancier.

flexcar in San Diego

[mo]

My condo in downtown San Diego only has one parking spot which is permenantly claimed by my wife's car (it's nicer than my car). If I didn't have to commute via car every day I'd gladly subscribe to the flexcar that sits a block away. Heck, the subscription would pay just for the parking spot that car occupies. I can see this being a real benefit in other places where parking is brutal like beach areas or other urban centers.

New Service

[daddymac]

Wow. This "new" service from Flexcar has been available for at least 5 years in Portland. Nice. Just, really... nice. so new. 5+ years new.

More Thoughts on Cars and Society

[NardofDoom]

I once heard a news story where a Chinese government official said that having a car in every garage is the sign of an advanced society.

"That doesn't make any sense, " I thought. "If a society is advanced, a person shouldn't need a car to get around. It should be a luxury purchase."

An advanced society is able to have effective, efficient, and cheap public transportation. The fact that we rely on cars to move people around shows how far we have to go towards an advanced society, not just a rich one.

I would love to give up my car. I'm looking at houses within walking or biking distance of my job, so that I can lose the cost. But right now I have to drive 40 miles to and from work each day. Not because I want to, but because a long time ago a war hero who got elected president decided to cut rail funding in favor of building 30 meter wide swaths of concrete across the countryside. And then wasting my tax dollars on maintaining them.

I just dropped $55 on an inspection and emissions test because I need to drive to and from work. That's $55 I can't spend on a new hard drive or computer. I spend $40 a week (A WEEK!) on gas because there's no way I can commute.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be if I were someone on a limited income trying to hold down a job without a car. Public transportation doesn't go into the suburbs, where the money and jobs are, so I'd be confined to one small area for everything, or paying out the ass for taxis to haul me to and from work.

Things have got to change.

Re:Getting lucky

[NardofDoom]

First, this is slashdot. There's no chance of anyone here getting "lucky" unless you mean using "I'm feeling lucky" on Google.

Second, if a woman doesn't like me because I don't drive a nice car, she's a shallow, high-maintainence bitch who isn't worth my time, no matter how hot she is.

Regular rentals worked out for me....

[human bean]

When I lived in town, I realized that I was spending money on a car in order to drive it thirty minutes per day. I would drive fifteen minutes to work, let car sit for ten hours, drive fifteen minutes home, let car sit for ten hours, most weekdays. I found that I really only needed a car on the weekends.

Then one day, my beast of burden sat down on the side of the road and died. There was no cure.

So I went down to the local rental place, and made them a deal. I simply told them that I would like a car every weekend starting on Friday evening and that I would bring it back Sunday. I let them keep the deposit on file. They got steady business, I got whatever I needed (a clean, maintained car, truck, SUV, or convertible).

Sure, it was not all roses. There were times when I needed a truck but had to use an SUV. The Caddy convertible was not always available, but I got by. Low and behold, when I am totalling up the charges, it came to no more than the cost I spent on my old car. Go figure.

Now I live in the woods, so a ride is a necessity, but if I ever move back to the core, let me tell you...

Re:Getting lucky

[Jeremi]

Let me paint 2 scenarios. Both involve a first date with a beautiful woman. In the first, you roll up in a rinky dink little shared car. In the second, you roll up in something slick that you own. Which scenario offers a better chance of getting lucky?

Neither, because for $2/hour extra you can roll up in a "premium" shared car, which is presumably less rinky-dink. And in any case, if your relationships are so infantile that your dates are decide whether or not to sleep with you based on your car, then I suggest saving your car/date money and spending it on hookers instead -- it'll cost about the same, and you'll be guaranteed to "get lucky".

Kind of Pricey

[iamatlas]

$8.50 to $12.50 an hour, plus $25 application fee and $100 deposit. In NJ, you can rent a car for as little as $25 a day. (Ford Focus) If you need a car for more than 2 hours or so, a rental is about as economical. A "quick run to the store" can be done with public transportation. Sure, there may be rare circumstances under which this is better than a full-service rental, but maybe not so much to build a business model on.

Also, in a "time-share" you actually own something. Here, you are basically just a member of a club. Maybe this is all just a scam to get you application fee and $100 deposit, while paying for a rental car to boot.

I-Go in Chicago is...

[sharkfish]

...wonderful. Chicago has great public transportation, and since I live in the city, I don't feel the need to own a car. However, there are times when a car is handy, such as when I bought a 35 inch TV. I-Go let me rent a van/SUV which looked darned near brand new. After keying in the code, the ignition turned and off I went. I had the car for six hours...returned it right on time on a weekend evening and went home to enjoy my new TV and home gym. No, I didn't aim to buy gym equipment that day, but what the heck, I had the vehicle... I hope this concept grows. It is very convenient and makes good sense. The suburbs are great for shopping....but that's about it...need a car to get there when I have to suffer the trip to "homogeneous land".

Do NOT be late with the flexcar.

[zipwow]

The first rule of Flexcar is: You can depend on the flexcar.

The second rule of Flexcar is: You can depend on the flexcar.

The third rule of Flexcar is: DO NOT BE LATE WITH THE FLEXCAR.

Their policy is that if you have a reservation, and the car isn't there, you call their toll-free 24-hour support number. They either get you a car nearby (if that works), or they send you a taxi. You take that taxi on your task, for up to some amount ($200 I think it is). The bottom line: if you have a reservation, you can count on getting where you're going.

Why can they afford to do this? If you're the one late with the flexcar, and you didn't call and let them know, YOU PAY FOR THE TAXI.

Do NOT be late with the Flexcar.

On the upside, if you *know* you're going to be late, then you can call in and let them know. Then they can warn the next member, or send a taxi to take them to another car. Much cheaper than sending a taxi to take them on their whole trip.

Of course, if it totally isn't your fault (accident, car breakdown, etc) Flexcar takes pretty good care of you. I was late with a car once because I had taken my wife to the hospital in it (a deep cut -- needed to be examined, but not ambulance worthy). They worked with the next person, and got it taken care of.

I've been a Flexcar member and car-free (in Seattle) for four years. It's great. I've only paid taxi fees a couple of times, they were about $40 or so. Ultimately, not a big deal. And even with the fees, waaay cheaper than owning a car.

San Francisco Bay Area

[migurski]

I've been a happy user of City Carshare (http://citycarshare.org/) in San Francisco / Oakland for over two years - great service, really convenient.

Commute by bike...

[markw365]

I live 18.6 miles from work via bike. It takes me about an hour to ride in, or if I want, I can take the trolley which takes about the same amount of time. On a good day it will take 30 minutes to drive, but on most days I'm looking at being parked on I8, I94, or SR52 for around 45 minutes. Oh, this includes a 10 minute walk to the parking lot to get to my car vs my bike locker right outside the door of the building. So basically, I'm spending an extra 30 minutes each way getting a workout, or reading on the Trolley. It's quite a bit cheaper and better for my health.

Can I just rent the back seat?

[zagmar]

$5 - Blowjob
$5 - backseat of Ford Fiesta for 1 hr

Returning the car with cum stains on the back of the seats?

Priceless.

Notes from a ZipCar User

[jonhainer]

I live in Cambridge, MA, and I used ZipCar for about three years. When I came to Boston from Kentucky, the first thing I noticed was that driving here really sucks. Besides that, I worked in the Back Bay neighborhood, and parking near work was $400 a month. Luckily, Boston has an excellent public transportation system, so for about $60 a month, I got a subway/bus pass. At that point, I realized that I was only driving two Saturdays a month. So, these two Saturdays were costing me $450 a month ($350 car payment & $100 a month insurance). It was officially cheaper to rent a car for those two days. So I got rid of my car.

This was two years before ZipCar came into existance. Renting a car from a traditional rental agency involves going to the agency during their working hours, standing in line (frequently 1/2 hour), filling out paperwork, and returning the car during working hours. It makes no sense to rent the car for less than a day. Thus when ZipCar started up, and the booking time became 5 minutes at home and you could book for a couple hours, it was huge.

It was only when I moved to the far west side of Cambridge, where it's easier to find a parking space near the house and there aren't 7 ZipCars within walking distance (in fact there isn't even 1) that I decided it was time to get a new car.

From a geek standpoint, the system is extremely cool. The company issues you a card key associated with your account. You reserve the car on-line. A cell based system in the car is alerted to let the car know when you've rented it. During your rental time your card key unlocks the doors and the ignition. You can continue to drive if you go past the quiting time, but they charge you $25 for being late. In Boston, you're always late because of traffic, so it's cheaper just to rent the car for 1/2 hour or hour more than you think you'll need it.

So in answer to some of the questions I've seen:

(1) Why don't you just take public transportation? I did 95% of the time.

(2) Is it reliable? Yes. The $25 late fee seems to insure that the car is back on time. I never had to wait for the car to be returned.

(3) Is it dirty? No. There is a $50 charge for trashing the car.

(4) Is it wrecked? For whatever reason, the cars had very few dings. If the car is in a serious accident, it is taken out of commission. The company contacts the current renters and rebooks them to different cars.

(5) Who does the maintenance / washes the cars? The company does. If you want to wash the car yourself, the company reimburses you.

(6) Does it make sense in every town? No, only in very dense cities that have good public transportation.

(7) Isn't it expensive? Not compared to the price of owning a car in a big city.

(8) Is it convenient? Yes. In Boston / Cambridge there are a ton of cars. Until I moved far enough away from the central part of the city, it was pretty easy to find a car near my home or work free at any given time (except holiday weekends).

(9) Will it impress a woman? No, but she lives in the city, too. Meet her at a coffee shop and then take her to a nice restaurant.

Aahh old Europe :-)

[lovesignal]

Don't know why such an article makes news in the US, but we've had successful car sharing over here for years. In Switzerland (mainly in urban regions), 58'000 people share ~1'800 cars. You make a reservation over phone or internet, then your membercard opens the car doors when your time has come (car exchanges data with the server using SMS / GSM text messaging) For each usage, you pay a price per km driven and per hour used, depending on car category. for a small car, this usually works out at something like 0.5 USD per km, larger ones 20-50% more. If you live in a place with good public transport, it's perfect.

Technical Questions?

[mcguire]

I know I'm jumping in a little late here, but if anyone has any technical questions about the service (I work for Zipcar here in Boston), I'd be happy to take a shot at them.

My story -- and Zipcar subsidies

[miked378]

There are lots of people complaining about the pricing -- here's my story with Zipcar in Boston.

My 1992 Saturn was falling apart on the streets -- between snow, getting sideswiped, looking for parking spaces (most people in the city don't have dedicated spots), and the fact that my car was 10 years old and had the usual 10-year-old car problems, it was quite a burden. I estimated that I spent about $150 per month on it all told (maintenance, parking tickets, gas, insurance) -- all so I could drive to the grocery store once a week. So enter Zipcar. They have nice cars (most are late-model VW's -- Jettas, Beetles -- if you want to pay a little more, you can even rent Minis and BMW 7-series cars!), and more importantly, their reserved spots are closer to my house than I was able to park my own car. I donated my piece-of-junk car to charity, canceled my insurance, and signed up. As for the pricing, my philosophy was that if I spent less than $150 per month, I was doing great -- and no headaches of car ownership. At $8.50 per hour, that's over 17 hours of driving -- needless to say, I haven't gotten close to that. If I plan ahead, I can get a normal rental car. I've figured that the break-even point between Zipcar and standard car rental (considering gas and insurance) is about 5 hours.

I also haven't seen it mentioned that Zipcar has agreements with several local businesses and universities. For example, MIT provides spots on campus and waives the application fees for grad students, faculty, and staff.

I think it's great to have a progressive, tech-friendly, environmental company around that actually improves my quality of life and saves me money.