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German Court Sets Copyright Tax on New PCs
graemee pastes: "The District Court of Munich has ordered Fujitsu Siemens Computers to pay a copyright levy on new PCs. The landmark decision, announced on Thursday, ends a nearly two-year dispute between the largely Germany-based computer maker and the country's VG Wort rights society, which has sought compensation for digital copying. VG Wort had filed a suit against Germany's largest PC maker, Fujitsu Siemens, seeking 30 euro (US$41) for each new computer sold in the country. The court agreed to a 12 euro copyright levy."
... vomit in absolute disgust.
Unless of course this completely ligitimises copying c.f. Canada. somehow I doubt it though.
They're already paid for.
(Sure the courts wont see it that way)
~cederic
By doing this, they're legitimizing the same activities they claim to be trying to stop. If you are going to pass a levy to compensate for something, you can't expect anyone to listen when you tell them to stop. They will (rightly) say "I paid an extra tax on this equipment to cover the cost of what I'm doing." They'll either have to stop charging a levy or fin that no one will listen.
i am a soviet space shuttle
I could use a pencil to 'copy' a piece of art. And there should also be a copyright levy on the human voice for the ability to sing along with a song.
Don't give Bush any ideas ;)
this assumes that everyone is a thief and makes the people who make the product pay for what people use their products for, even a legitimate use...which then gets passed onto the consumer. Such a stupid legal move IMO
Do independent and alternative labels get any of the copyright taxes in countries like Germany and Canada, or does it all go to the RIAA equivalents?
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
You pay car tax and you're legally allowed to drive a car.
You pay tobacco tax and you're legally allowed to smoke it.
So if you pay a "digital copying tax" on a computer, you must be allowed to do digital copying on it, surely?
Out of curiosity, if you built a pc from scratch, which component gets this tax, or is it split up between all of them ?
I wonder how this will effect people who build their own PCs. Does the tax only apply to people who buy a pre-fab machine, or will individual components also be taxed, or is it on the honor system where if you build a computer at home you are obligated to send in the ammount required by the tax.
As assinine as this is overall, I would much rather pay a $50 tax on any computer than have the media industries completely destroy or cripple beyond recognition the internet and anything remotely interesting that computers can do.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
VG Wort is not about music. VG Wort is responsible for collecting money on written documents / books and the rights associated with them. And they are right about wanting to get that levy on computers, because people who want to set up Xerox machines and use them commercialy have had to pay that levy since, eh, always (And thereby you have the right to copy material out of books without owning the books).
So yes, you have to pay the levy, but you are also allowed to make non-commercial copies of books / magazines etc because of that. Stop complaining.
This just means that german PC sales will drop and the countries surrounding it will benefit. How inane. But at least this semi-legitimizes piracy in Germany (pre-paid).
kin242.net
In order to drive a car, you have to pay a tax. It's the law.
However, in order to make a digital copy, or a copy of anything, you don't need to pay anything. Nothing, no tax, zilch. Assuming, of course, that you already own the source material you're copying.
I just don't see how you could justify a tax for copying, because you're either going to be copying illegally obtained material (in which case you can't really tax it, because it would legitimise the crime - you really can't tax something which is illegal to start with), or you're going to be copying something you own already (transferring an LP of yours to CD, recording your own work to a CD), or something that you have permission to copy (GPL files etc.)
It just doesn't work, and doesn't make sense. Perhaps somebody in Germany will follow Canada's example, and scrap it. Soon.
First they tax CD-R(W) media by default because they assume you will use them for copyright-protected content and now they're also making you pay an additional tax on computers because they assume you will illegally be using copyright-protected content on your computer. They just assume mens rea without proving it on an individual basis. Guilty until proven otherwise is the premise Germanic law is based on. The German legal system as well as all other modern legal systems are based on Roman law, which is based on the premise that you are innocent until proven guilty. How this decision could have come about is totally beyond me. What's next? An additional tax on eyeglasses because you might use them to view copyright-protected content?!
Just as a reminder, the four levels of mens rea set forth in the MPC (Model Penal Code) are:
So... Will this replace my SCO Linux license, or do I need both? I'd really like to get my $699 back...
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
I hate bureaucracy.
Tax this, tax that, distort the market.
VG Wort have increased the price of PCs to *everyone*. Over the whole of the economy, anyone who uses a PC to create a product or offer a service will now have to charge that much more - which means the entire economy is that much less productive, because there is a fixed amount of money available for investment, and the price of buying a PC based service is now higher.
What's more, the knock on effect is huge, because PCs are vital to so many industries. It will now be that much more expensive to buy *food*, because all the PCs bought by food retailers and wholesalers are that much more expensive; and we ALL buy food!
This sort of ruling, the very fact is can occur, is a hallmark of the danger of concentrating economic power in the hands of political power.
This court has both political power - the right to make decisions - and economic power - the right to make decisions which influence, in this case, a form of taxation.
When political decisions are badly made in the political sphere, the consequences are things like national ID cards, or foreign countries becoming upset with us.
When political decisions are badly made in the economic sphere, there is less choice of goods to buy, they cost more, and everyone, to a greater or lesser extent, becomes poorer.
--
Toby
In America we'd just whine quietly and fork over the extra bucks, like the weak little pussies we are.
Yeah--exactly like we did when gas prices went up. Oh wait--I guess Europe is where they pay outrageous prices for fuel.
So what happens when a record company release a cd that is "copy proof" in a country that has a media levy? Can the consumers then sue that record company as now they now took your money but are trying to stop you from using your right under law to make copies.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
By the way, if I remember correctly, Canada for one applies the levy also to hard disks (I'm not sure Germany does this). So Canadians already pay the IP tax on their computers.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
In Germany you need to pay copyright levies on virtually everything that would be suitable for creating copies, be it on CD/DVD writers, CD-R(W)/DVD-R(W) media, printers, etc. You would think that this copyright levy would entitle you to some fair use, such as private copies of, say, the latest audio cd you bought. And sure enough, even though the very people who get the money would like to abolish any notion of fair use and legal copies for private purposes, you may find that even now you are not allowed to make copies of things you paid for. Way too many audio CDs sold in Germany today have copy protections (I'd rather refer to them as play protections), and by law you may not attempt to overcome these protections, rendering any copy you make an illegal one.
I think this is really a fine display of greed. Make everyone pay but give nothing in return.
In Canada, there has been a copyright tax on blank CDs and on MP3 players. Well the supreme court of Canada just ruled these to be unconstitutional in Canada. Though the court has yet to rule on remidies, it is widely expected that refunds of the levy should be forthcoming. Hence statements in the press of late, that if you should decide to buy a media player in Canada, keep your receipt.
You'd do what you already do now too: assemble your PC from spare parts.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
I realize that Germany isn't America, and doesn't have their government setup the same way, but I thought most modern forms of government had the concept of seperation of powers, that some sort of legislative body makes the laws and the judicial system rules on disputes over those laws.
I'm surprised that people aren't more upset by the fact that you had here a court creating law. While on the face of it I think the ruling is bogus, I'd be a little bit more upset that judiciary just created a new tax, something that is clearly the job of a legislative body. They've basically usurped the process by which a law is passed, and all the checks and balances built into the system.
Since they can't seem to capture Whitey Bulger, the FBI has decideed to throw all US citizens in jail for three days instead.
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
a 100$ tax is imposed on every vehicle to gather the uncatched speed limit violations.
-- "If A equals success, then the formula is A=X+Y+Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut." - Einstein
That's not the same thing. This would be more like paying a Marijuana Tax on potting soil, because you might use the soil to grow marijuana.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Here in france we have the right of "Private copy" but since 1-2 years we have a tax on every kind of media allowing storage of music (CD/DVD, HardDisk, FloppyDisk, Memory Cards, ...) The reason is a compensation of the loose of profit generated by the "private copy" right allowed by law.
Actually European Laws permit us to buy these taxed stuff elsewhere in Europe without paying the french tax if and only if the equivalent tax is paid by the provider in his country. The point is that German people can buy their computer in another country to bypass the tax as french people can buy their blank media in Germany or England where there's less or no tax on blank media
Regis C
Not a small part. It's about 40% of the retail price.
Teosto also collects over 1 euro for every DVD-+R(W) disc. As a result a pack of 50 no-brand discs costs 129 euros here versus 25 euros when ordered from Estonia INCLUDING shipping. However, importing CDs and DVDs without paying the levies is illegal and carries insane penalties (fines over 20 euros for a single disc and even jail time).
And no, you can't legally download or copy CDs nor DVDs even though you have to pay the levies - there's absolutely NO way for a non-corporation to avoid paying the levy other than ordering from abroad, but like I said before that's illegal.
The reason for this insanity is partly the fact that the majority of Finns continue to vote for the same celebrities year after year, even after they raised their own already mind-boggling salaries by 60% and lowered their retirement age to 45 years while the country was suffering from record-high unemployment and new lay-offs were announced every week.
As my personal opinion I think only those with higher education should be allowed to vote and all goverment officials should not be paid more than the average salary.
Capitalization is the difference between "Helping your uncle jack off a horse" and "Helping your uncle Jack off a horse"
I can add some perspective as someone who has received funds from VG Wort, because after all, this is all about people like me, right? The whole point is to protect the rights of copyright holders and ensure that they are adequately compensated for their work. So is it really worth it?
I co-authored some long-since-forgotten academic articles and a book back in my days as a graduate student. The articles appeared in some conference proceedings, and the book, as well as a couple of the articels, were published in the Lecture Notes series of the Springer Verlag. So my name got put on a list somewhere, and every year for about three or four years, a check from VG Wort came in the mail.
To put it briefly, I could have just as well done without it. I don't know how they determined how much money was dispersed to each individual, it was based on some formula that I never bothered to try to understand. At any rate, it was nothing to get rich on, maybe about a hundred marks or so if I remember correctly (this was back before the Euro). About enough to take a girl out on a nice dinner date, once a year. Which of course is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you're a student hustling to make ends meet and struggling for ways to impress a girl. But I could have just as well managed without it. (If she's worth it, you always find a way, you know; and one nice dinner in a year won't get you very far.)
More prolific authors get more money from VG Wort, since the money is based on how much you've published. But I doubt that the cash from VG Wort makes a whole lot of difference to people who make their living as authors; they have to get the vast part of their income by other means.
So if this is the benefit to society that is to be gained by making everyone pay an extra 12 Euros for each PC, I think it's obvious that we can just as well pass it up. Aside from all the philosophical debates about copyright law and whether it's fair and just to pay creators of content this way, the practical effects of the scheme are just not very significant. Why put this added burden on the buyers of PCs just so some student can take someone out once a year? It's better for everyone, economically and socially, to keep the prices of computer hardware down than to extend this meager benefit to copyright holders.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
> you may be able to argue that there is an implied agreement
No, there is no implied agreement. There is an explicit agreement on which this tax is based.
Article 53 defines what kind of copying is allowed. Article 54 says there should be a compensation for it.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
The VG Wort is also the reason why scanners, printers and copy machines often are slower in Germany than in the rest of the world.
The VG Wort gets a fee based on the throughput of these machines. To lower this fee, many devices sold in Germany are (or were?) sold with reduced speed.
Sometimes you could speed up peripherals by installing english drivers.
Sounds like a wonderful little protection racket. You pay into the syndicate^wsystem so in the off chance something "bad" bappens to you, you can get help.
And refusing to pay for this "insurance" will no doubt greatly increase the odds of something "bad" happening to you.
Where can I get a piece of this action?
The important legal difference is that private copies are legal in Germany. Again: In Germany, I can take a DVD, CD, video, whatever, and rip a copy for my own private use. Of course, if I start distributing that copy or screen it in a public place etc. they get to throw the book at me, and will do so very, very hard.
This Recht auf eine Privatkopie is something German consumer groups have been fighting tooth and nail to keep in he face of massive industry pressure to adopt an American-style "sorry sucker, you can't do jack" system. On the long run, this new ruling will actually work for the consumer, because it weaves the right to a private copy tighter into the greater legal fabric. Now, when I buy a computer, I have paid for that private copy, so industry can just go shove a bratwurst up their Po, with mustard. Or they can try to get the VG Wort system changed -- and good luck with that, because it touches just about every scrap of printed matter in Germany, from newspapers to pornographic novels.
All the talk here about "guilty until proven innocent" is pure crap by people who haven't taken the time to read the background kindly provided by the Germans on the list and should be modded down as ranting, if not German-bashing.
As somebody who has lived in Germany for a while let me say that German law for the most part is a very sane, logical, and balanced system that almost across the board is superior to the 18th Century money-comes-first atavism that the U.S. is forced to suffer through. The SCO case proved this quite well: German courts took about a week to bitch-slap Darl's minions back into the real world, while, what is it now, years? later IBM and RedHat are still forced to pour millions into legal fees.
And people will ask questions about it. Then you explain it (in the FAQ or a brochure) and point people toward the government.
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
They are effectively taxing on the basis of potential, rather than executing their obvious duties as lawmakers in overhauling the copyright laws made obsolete by ubiquitous technology. Not only is this entirely against the public interest -- the very foundation of the copyright institution -- but, it is, also, taxation which neither funds public infrastructure nor implements a public service. This is entirely unethical, morally bankrupt, and represents an astounding and inexcusable level of incompetence after ignorance. What manner of deliberation would not lead to the conclusion that this half-headed logic opens up a Pandora's Box, short of none?
Using potential infraction of the law, or even the past infractions of a vast multitude, as a compelling basis upon which to preemptively adjudicate for any crime, which may occur in the future, is maddeningly ludicrous.
Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden...
Stories about the exact same levy: Germany Mulls A Copyright Levy + VAT For PCs, Have You Paid Your Bertelsmann Tax Today?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
I mean they can't demand people pay for it and call it illegal at the same time, right?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
You have noticed the oil cartels just raped us for hundreds of billions of extra bucks in the U.S.? And it had nothing to do with the government? At least the Europeans get less pollution, get smaller cars with better mileage, and use the taxes on gas for the public good? We in the U.S. gave trillions over to the oil industry -- which will then buy up more of our private sector, bribe the public sector, and make sure we never see a non-oil-based economy established. SUCH A DEAL.
By the same logic we should all do some pre-time in jail, because we *may* commit a crime in the future.
Or we could pre-pay some traffic fines, because we *may* speed in the future.
If I'd buy a computer in Germany, and I could honestly say that I will not copy anything illegal, I would refuse to pay this fee.
Don't worry. It just means that non-oil economy won't start in the US. US will be forced to follow, though. The oil megacorps will kick and scream while being dragged off the scene, maybe buy few more years of life, but that's about all they will be able to do.
Same like stem cell research. If the clerofascists ban/restrict it in the US, it only means Korea will become the biomed leader.
The world is too big to allow a comparatively small group to stop the progress. Slow down, perhaps - but not stop.
If that percentage were not small, then they cannot be "rich". But your attitude is common among most Americans, and maybe even most humans. We seem to throw logic out the window when it comes to our personal chances.
Perhaps most humans are not as fixated as you are with comparing themselves to their neighbors. Having a comfortable life is one of my goals. Being one of the top x% of the "rich" is not, and I don't lie awake at night concerned that somebody else has more than me. As you and the left continually fail to realize, the economy is not a zero sum game.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
"Has anyone tried defending an infringement suit on the theory that they paid a copyright levy on the media and thus paid for making the copy?"
- Paid-Them? argument :( Although it makes my skin crawl.
I believe they got the law giving them lovely money to compensate them for the FAIR-USE copies.
A beautiful, nasty, WRONG argument, because a copyright holder is not entitled to compensation for Fair Use copying. That's WHY it's called Fair Use: because it is fair for the user to copy without paying.
But it sidetracks the whole Why-Am-I-Being-Sued-For-Copying-When-I've-Already
That's why word meanings are important! You can't let your foe own the win by redefining the terms used in your arguments so that you can't even make yourself understood in the debate. Orwell made this clear. L. Ron Hubbard used word redefinitions (Win, Enemy, etc) in his writings to redefine how his followers thought when certain key words were used, making argument with his ideas impossible. Redefinitions of the word "pirate" and "thief" to describe copying intangibles was intentional on the **AA's part. Bush's PR people reconstituted the simple idea of the word "torture" into the less objectionable "abuse" in the news media. It's all about the words. If your opponent removes your ability to express yourself in words understandable by a third party, you've lost.
It isn't really FAIR-USE but legal private copying. When the law was made, it was pretty clear that there is no way to stop private copying without a police state and criminalizing a huge part of your citizens. Because of that, the lawmakers allowed private copying but also decided that copyright holders have get a compensation. (like this copyright levy) Imho a very good and fair idea.
Now there are just two basic problems with this system:
Jan