Straw Converted to Gasohol in Canada

An anonymous reader writes "The Government of Canada announced that its vehicle fleet is the first in the world to use cellulose-based ethanol. Iogen Corporation produces the ethanol from wheat straw at its leading-edge demonstration facility in Ottawa."

Comments

Northern neighbors

[SilverspurG]

For all the grief the US people give Canada, they're really kicking our butts on the reality checks. The lobbyists and SIGs would have the US tied in knots trying to move any significant bulk of vehicle fleet to something like this.

At least I think so. I'm sure someone will find some obscure example of some community in CA that does it...

Re:Northern neighbors

[Linux_ho]

Yeah, well, except that they don't say anything about cost comparisons between making ethanol from cellulose versus traditional starch ethanol production. If it really is less expensive to produce ethanol from cellulose, it's REALLY cool! And you have to factor in that most cellulose is waste that would cost money to dispose of. But if it's not overall more cost effective than traditional ethanol production, then big deal. US companies are also developing new enzymes and techniques of making ethanol from cellulose. The problem is that all the processes so far are still too expensive to compete with traditional ethanol production, without being propped up by the government. Don't give Canada too much credit - right now about 12% of US gasoline contains ethanol, vs 5% in Canada.

Re:Northern neighbors

[Smidge204]

Uh, no... I think he means 12% of all the gasoline sold in the US contains ethanol, not gasoline is 12% ethanol. In fact, the article you linked to says exactly that: In the United States, one out of every eight gallons of gasoline sold contains ethanol. (1/8 = 12.5%)

Thanks for the link, though. I find it interesting that MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether), which is used during the winter to reduce air pollution, in turn increases groundwater pollution. Where I live our only source of water is groundwater, so the local governments are SUPER DUPER anal about pollution control like septic/chemical waste systems and fuel storage... but the pumps say that the fuel is oxygenated with an ether from November to February. I wonder if it's the same stuff...
=Smidge=

Re:Northern neighbors

[dave1g]

I'm all for nuclear, wind, solar, power etc... as well. But its a problem that needs a multipronged attack until we are sure which one is the best economically and ecologically.

That does it. I'm moving back to the U.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

I moved to Canada after being placed on the US no-fly list by trying to bring flammable materials on board an aircraft just by stepping aboard. Now Canada does this! They might as well declare open seasons on me.

I'll never know when I'll go to sleep one night and wake up in a gas tank on a highway in Hamilton, Ontario, powering a Pontiac Firefly. I'm sure I'll have nightmares of this "straw to fuel" scheme. It took me years to get over nightmares of that damn green witch.

Sincerely, the Scarecrow of Oz.

duh.

[Knights who say 'INT]

About one fourth of brazilian cars have been running on cellulose-based ethanol since the late 80's.

The whole system is only economical when we subsidize sugarcane farmers though :-|.

Re:duh.

[Anonymous Coward]

About one fourth of brazilian cars have been running on cellulose-based ethanol since the late 80's. The whole system is only economical when we subsidize sugarcane farmers though :-|.

Uh, no.

Brazil uses standard fermentation from *sucrose* not *cellulose*. That's why you need sugarcane - to get the sugar. If you are just using cellulose, you can use anything with cellulose: straw, cornstalks, paper pulp, old cotton clothes, grass clippings, etc.

Innovation will have to come from outside the US

[Hamstij]

With the American government completely owned by the governments of oil producing countries and the management of oil producing companies, our dependence on fossil fuels will only be broken by a foreign nation. They at least have the freedom to innovate!

Good on you Canada, I hope other nations pick this up and help run with it.

Re:Innovation will have to come from outside the U

[Tanktalus]

Both the US and Canada are oil producers, too. The difference? The US is "led" by Texas (sitting president is from which state?), while Canada's leaders cannot consistantly point out "Alberta" on a Canadian map.

You take oil, use it to make fertiliser, spread it

[human bean]

on soil where wheat wouldn't grow before (go check...) in order to grow the wheat, then use the straw to make ethanol to burn in the car that was originally designed to run on the oil. Not to mention the oil products it takes to run the combines, discers, etc. and the power it took to run the fertiliser plant.

While this gets an "A" for using a product that would ordinarily not have a high value, straw does rot back to its initial components and forms a major source of nutrients for upcoming wheat crops. Removing it for fuel just means you have to put more oil-based fertiliser.

Seems to me that if you shorten this chain the efficiency might go up a little...

Cost to convert?

[jtapper]

If today's vehicles can only use up to 10% ethanol, how much does it cost to convert an average vehicle to use up to 85% ethanol?
Is this financialy feasable for your average vehicle owner and will it save them money, or just help save the world one kilometer (0.62 miles) at a time?

Re:Cost to convert?

[chizzad]

Actually, some DaimlerChrysler cars (my parents' minivan) have a little sticker that says it can run on E85. The interesting thing is that E85 which is 85% etanol can be purchased in corn-towns in Minnesota cheaply. E85 and %10 must be subsidized in rural MN. /I wouldn't put E85 into my Golf IV but I do use the subsidized %10 ethanol mix.

It's the economics stupid.

[rider_prider]

Since oil is now more expensive than alternative fuels, the alternatives will now be used... There many are groups in Canada's prairie provinces (Saskatchewan, Manitoba, yes even Alberta) trying to get ethanol plants built. They are trying to catch up to states like minnesota, the dakotas. On a recent trip through the Dakota's nearly every truck stop sold bio-diesel.

Re:That does it. I'm moving back to the U.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

I moved to Canada after being placed on the US no-fly list by trying to bring flammable materials on board an aircraft just by stepping aboard. Now Canada does this! They might as well declare open seasons on me.

I'll never know when I'll go to sleep one night and wake up in a gas tank on a highway in Hamilton, Ontario, powering a Pontiac Firefly. I'm sure I'll have nightmares of this "straw to fuel" scheme. It took me years to get over nightmares of that damn green witch.

Sincerely, the Scarecrow of Oz.


Give me a break. That's just a straw-man agrument and you know it.

Many important data points missing

[justanyone]

There are huge numbers of data points missing from this article:

• What is the production cost of the ethanol in CDN$/litre (or gallon, whatever);
• What is the capacity in millions-of-liters/year of a plant of x cost (fixed vs. variable costs);
• Is there new technology at work here?
• (advanced)What is the experience curve coefficient for cellulose ethanol?
• What is total number of gallons (or litres) of gasoline used by Canada per year
• what is the total number of liters per year of Ethanol?
• what is the difference between cellulose-based-ethanol and other ethanols in (production cost, production capability, capacity, etc.).

I know no one here will know this stuff necessarily, but it would be great if science articles like this could give the geeks in the room a nod and give __SOME__ of this info...

-- Kevin

The process

[Anonymous Coward]

The ethanol is being produced by iogen http://www.iogen.ca/. Info from their website, for those who won't even RTFA (Posted Anonymous so I'm not accused of karma whoring):

"EcoEthanol(TM) is the patented name of Iogen's cellulose ethanol process. The process uses an enzyme hydrolysis to convert the cellulose in agriculture residues into sugars. These sugars are fermented and distilled into ethanol fuel using conventional ethanol distillation technology."

...

Cellulose ethanol differs from conventional ethanol in the following ways:
a) the manufacturing process does not consume fossil fuels, but rather uses plant byproducts to create the energy to run the process (this leads to a net zero greenhouse gas emissions profile),
b) the technology is new and emerging and has only recently become practical, and
c) the raw material does not compete as a food source for humans and is available today based upon existing farm practices.

...

*How much ethanol do you get from a tonne of feedstock?
Exact output depends on the condition of the feedstock that is put into the process, however approximately 300 litres of ethanol are produced from one tonne of feedstock. There is also approximately 200kg of lignin left after hydrolysis. The lignin can be burned to generate power.

That's all well and good but...

[azav]

How does it taste?

I'm looking for a smoothness without that old straw taste.

Ultimately all energy comes from the sun

[bluedream]

If you examine the energy cycle on this planet a majority of it ultimately came from sunlight striking a plant, making the weather, etc.

Unfortunately nobody in charge really cares how the planet works as long as they pump their black gold from the ground. There is only so long we can operate our economy in direct opposition to nature before something bad happens.

Re:You take oil, use it to make fertiliser, spread

[mmontour]

straw does rot back to its initial components and forms a major source of nutrients for upcoming wheat crops

Presumably you could put the leftover sludge from the ethanol production back onto the field and get a similar effect. The only elements that end up in the ethanol are hydrogen (which plants get from water), carbon, and oxygen (which they get from atmospheric CO2).

Re:Innovation will have to come from outside the U

[pipingguy]

The synthetic fuel goals in northern Alberta keep getting funded by the billions for some reason (I'm currently working on a side project - nothing impressive to the average Slashdot reader). The cost of extraction is high, but the available resources are quite impressive.

Anyone want to take a shot as to why why all this money is being spent on crappy oil?

If you guessed self-sustainability for North America you're probably right. All the while we learn more about clean production, co-gen, etc.

If middle east oil dried-up tomorrow, we'd be able to supply the continent for quite a few decades, albeit at somewhat higher prices.