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PCs For A Workshop Environment?
bryanporter writes "I'm a geek-turned-homeowner, and am in the processing of setting up my workshop for doing odds and ends around the house. I want to install a cheap, decent PC out there for looking up building plans, shopping for tools while I'm on a job, etc. The shop is going to be in a wooden outbuilding with a shingled roof but the building won't be heated or cooled (although I don't plan on using it much in the summer)." Read on for a bit more on what he's looking for -- what would you suggest for computing in a hostile environment on a non-industrial budget?
"I plan on doing things like sawing wood for shelves in here so dust will also be prevalent. Can any of you Slashdotters recommend components for building a machine resilient to cold weather and lots of dust? I was a PC upgrade/repair technician in a former life, so building my own machines is not daunting in the slightest (I've built all my own home machines). The ruggedized machines I've found online are all too pricey, and all seem more designed for avoiding shock damage than environmental dust and cold."
How about building a small dust-proof closet for the computer and video-out display wirelessly? And add a glass-shielded desk (you see those in some retail shops/banks) where your LCD will be lying on its back facing up, covered by a layer of glass. Wireless keyboard and mouse can be regularly cleaned/dusted off or even replaced.
:)
Failing that, maybe build some sort of a curtainized shed, so you work on the computer inside, like those scientists in the contaminated zone
While most people put the roof back on their convertibles when it's raining, some take out the umbrellas.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Just buy a cheap PC... You would be surprised at the hostile enviroments a PC will live in...
definitely...buy one that allows you full use while protecting against spills and dust.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
I have a friend who once did something like this with an old pentium 2 350mhz computer. To keep moisture out, he duct taped all seams on the case and cut makeshift air filters out of simple polyester batting to fit on the fans to keep the dust out and made a small wooden cabinet for the monitor and also used a form fitting plastic keyboard cover to keep it clean. For the mouse, I forgot what he did. I think he might have used a cheap optical mouse.
If I were you, I'd go for something with as few moving parts as possible, to reduce the number of points of failure. You could maybe set up a Linux-based thin client or diskless workstation, since it doesn't sound like you'll be using anything more demanding than a web browser.
Another big issue to consider is the monitor. Apparently many CRTs don't like being taken below freezing, and LCDs are even less tolerant.
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
Yup, make your first project an enclosure-enclosure for the machine with good filters for the ventilation. You can buy large pieces of good filter material by shopping for replacement filters for home air cleaners. Even a good furnace filter will do. Beyond that, most PC hardware will work well in cold conditions pretty well... but a CRT display will probably treat you better in cold weather than a reasonably priced LCD, and is cheap.
Don't forget about moisture condensing within the enclosure. You can buy some pipe heating tape in the hardware store, and use it in really cold weather just to keep the PC's enclosure warmer than its surroundings by a few degrees - that will help. Also: new power supply, mobo and whatnot all will last a long time even if you do virtually nothing, and will be cheaper to replace than a few good rip blades for your table saw and some nice oak planks.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
How cold do you expect it to get? If it is below freezing, the hard disk could be a problem. (Frozen or too thick lubricant can prevent the disk from spinning up) You may want to use the shop machine as a diskless X-terminal. You can either network boot a PC or see if you scavange a real X-terminal cheap.
There's no real need to use plexiglass. Wood does the trick just as neatly. The positive pressure however is a nice touch, in combination with good air filtering this will keep most of the dust out. As for keyboards etc.; be prepared to replace them. several 8 keyboards last a lot longer than an industrial strengthened 80 keyboard.
1)Get a clear plastic container to hold the cpu and monitor (or two seperate cases if you use a CRT).
2)Cut a hole in said plastic case and epoxy/hotglue/ductape a resperator filter or part of a vacume cleaner bag over it.
3) Go about building the CPU as you would go about building a home theater PC or similar in terms of heat output and fans and such.
4) Put your USB, ethernet, and power connections through other some smaller holes, and seal those with electrical tape or epoxy or something.
5) depending on where you live you might also want to put some kind of moisture obsorbing material in the case like paper towels or drierite desiccants.
6) If you're a cheap masochist, you might get a ball mouse. Otherwise, just get a regular optical mouse and carefully tape flexible plastic around the edges of the buttons (with enough slack for the buttons to function).
I've heard good things about the durability of rollup keyboards.
7) Upgrade the sound system in your house so that you can hear it clearly out in your shed. Make sure that you can control it via ssh.
good luck!
Most LCD panels have an operating temperature range of 0 to 50 degrees C (32 to 140 degrees F). The upper end of the range is unlikely to be a problem, but if your workshop is likely to get below freezing in the winter an LCD monitor will likely get damaged: use a conventional CRT based monitor instead.
Anyways, I second this post. I'd also like to mention that you might try booting your OS off of the network and loading it into RAM and skip the whole hard drive altogether. That way you can keep the number of moving parts as low as possible (and save some cash).
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
I'd get a cheap laptop and a wi-fi card. That way you can take the laptop out there and work while you need, and keep it in the house the rest of the time. Alternatively, you could buy one of those cheap barebones "mini" PCs with a handle and simply carry it from house to shed as necessary.
Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
Dude, that was from 6 years ago. Any info in it is probably outdated and anyway, I think something new would probably have been invented. Besides, how many people would remember that exact thread and be annoyed at a new one?
"For years, I struggled with reality... but I'm happy to say I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
First of all: Do not run cat-5 between buildings. Unless you have the ability to figure out and prevent ground loops, you are asking for trouble. Use either fiber or wireless. (or 10base5, if you can find it anymore, but shipping from eBay is likely to be more than other solutions)
Next, put the computer off your clean room. Cutting wood implies that you will be putting a finish on it latter, and finish should always be applied in a separate room that is well filtered and ventilated. (and heated!) Now you don't want your computer in the fumes from some finishes (you never know what will eat plastic), but you otherwise want exactly the same environment for both.
If you want to use the computer in the main shop, start with a wide format printer so you can print your instructions off. (this can be in the house) Then consider a projector, through a window from the clean room to a wall elsewhere. Requires some forethought of how to place things so it will work, but otherwise useful. If not that, run an LCD through a wall. Use the cheapest keyboard you can find in the shop so you don't care when it goes.
Last, search rec.woodworking. (google groups used to be good for this) This subject has been brought up many times.
They had a covered dock area for loading and all the offices were ventilated from the warehouse. Diesel fumes from the trucks trickled in and made all the vents pitch black. And inside the PC, they were completely black. They had been running the same PCs for 5 years with no more problems than anyone else has.
Bottom line, unless there are liquids around, you will probably be fine with just cleaning it out every once in a while.
I'm not drunk, I just have a speech impediment. And a stomach virus. And an inner ear infection.
I work for a support company. We do networks and hardware repair for all sorts of companies. Anything from $200 an hour lawyers to to heavy industrial.
My point is at the industrial places I have seen a lot of computers. I've had to fix PC's with 3 inches of metal shavings inside the case. Layers of black nasty dust. Computers you don't even want to touch because they are so nasty. Puddles of oil on them.
The majoriy of them still run, still work fine. Espically considering that some of them are Pentium based PC running 95 and they are still working in this enviroment.
Get a used PC, or put togather one from your parts bench. Put it in your shop. Forget about it, it will run forever. Just try to keep it away from the sander.
Pantyhose makes great filter material for any openings in the case.
How about a cheap Epia with wireless?
I'm going on the assumption that you're going to have better machines in the house and not using this one for games, etc. The less powerful (but still more than enough for a VNC client) Epia mobos shouldn't need a fan, and if you want you could get a DC power adaptor and laptop brick to save on the cost of a PSU (no fan on the DC adaptor). Depending on what you install the mobo should also be able to handle some video streams, etc
So far in $CAD that's about:
$50-60: DC PSU $15+: 12V 3a, Laptop power brick
$150 or so: Epia (motherboard, CPU, video, LAN, sound etc included)
under $100: Wireless NIC
under $100: small hard-drive
under $100: RAM
If you know a little about linux (or know somebody who can help you) then you could get rid of the hard-drive by running something that boots from a USB stick or perhaps an MMC card (some epias support MMC boot devices, and I've heard of adaptors to plug them into a hard-drive jack)
Obviously you could save by scavenging the RAM, drives, etc from other machines as well, so the only cost of "new" items would be the epia, DC PSU, and power brick. No fans means dust is much less of a problem too.
Get a cheap PC, dump that to a 55 gallon drum, punch a few holes for the cables to come out, pour lubricant oil to the cover the PC and cross your finger...
It means to be a joke initially, but, other than the possiblity of eatting away the plastics, I suddenly think it may work.
Heh. When I think of office environments, I think of jet fuel soot turning computer equipment black within a couple years of purchase.
Then Dell started selling black systems...
Actually, sawdust isn't the only thing you have to worry about in a workshop. Nasty solvents and other chemicals abound. My fingers, for example, are currently covered by a combination of polyurethane glue, exterior paint primer, sawdust, and blood. None of which are good for electronics.
c.
Log in or piss off.
Try idotpc.com or another fanless solution. After getting tired of my parent's computers dying or making screaming noises because of cat hair in the fans, I bought them each one. They're great computers and perfect if you can live with a Via chip.
Ok, let's think here. The main idea is to keep the fans from getting dusted up. Why don't you just build an airtight box, cut a big hole for a big duct, with the intake leading to the outside. Hook up a big , filtered industrial fan or blower pushing a bunch of fresh air into the intake hole. Make another hole on the other end, again, with a filter. If you got enough air moving through, you wouldn't even need fans. Mount a cheap motherboard with integrated video to the bottom of the case, along with the rest of the stuff you need. You can just do the wireless with USB, no need to make a support structure for the PCI slots (but, if you're inclined, you could make all the mounting brackets and stuff, and build the ultimate gaming machine inside). Then, use a roll-up keyboard and a graphics tablet for a mouse. Seal the holes for the cables with rubber gaskets and silicone, and you've got a dust-proof, spill-proof and otherwise rather indestructable system.
My other Sig is
A friend of mine asked me to take a look at her computer. She said the computer was unusually "quiet" and would reboot itself on occasion. I surmised correctly that the fan on her power supply was faulty. She was a chain smoker and apparently smoked a lot while working on the computer; not only was the power supply fan gummed up with revolting tar and nicotine, but the CPU's cooling fan was clogged beyond use, and the cdrom drive drawer would not open. This is the only computer I have ever worked on that died from smoking.
In reply to the above anecdote of stupidity, a reader sent in the following:
I've seen a computer die from smoking, too.
A customer came in with a dead computer, claimed it was under warranty, and asked if we could fix it. We had look at it, and before we even laid eyes on it, we could smell it. Imagine the stench of an overused ashtray times ten.
We looked at the yellow case (it was supposed to be beige) and the date of purchase (3-4 months previous) and goggled in disbelief that she actually had any lungs left.
"What are you doing with this computer?" I asked in total disbelief. It was at a taxi service. She smoked, the cabbies smoked, and the room was apparently only about eight by twelve. Smoking took place 24/7 in this place, and her fingers and the computer bore witness. We opened the case, and there were visible deposits of brown tar everywhere. The whole thing was gummy and slimy inside.
We had to tell her she was on her own. Naturally, she countered with the "it's under warranty" argument, but the computer was well beyond that. She left quite mad. We insisted she take her computer with her when she left.
All of which goes to speak on the need for keeping technology properly ventilated.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I built a "box" under the bench specially for the PC, then stuck a furnace filter on the front and back "door". I used a rubber gromet from any automotive store that "self heals" meaning it closes back in on itself so it stays sealed. Works supprizingly well. Furnace filters (cheap ones) are only a few bucks each, and change them at the end of each summer. The monitor i did a similar thing to with plexiglass, and a filter lid on top. Power is always on, and a power strip is the control. Very simple, costed about $30 to make and is durable. The PC came from compgeeks.com for about $130 (p3-600 crashpaq), same with the monitor. Optical cheap labtec mouse, equally cheap keyboard. It's not hard to do... Just use your imagination. (and mine's in a machine shop for autobody work, so you can imagine how dirty my stuff gets :) )
...Now if only i could figure out the printer...