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USPTO Released List of Top 10 Patent Receivers

prostoalex writes "So who received the most patents in 2004? Despite the frequent publicity around Microsoft's or Amazon's frivolous patents, these two companies are not even on the list. IBM, Matsushita and Canon received the most patents in 2004, followed by HP, Micron, Samsung, Intel, Hitachi, Toshiba and Sony. IBM alone was granted 3,248 patents last year."

230 comments

  1. IBM is on fire! by TheKarateMaster · · Score: 1

    They seem to be making all the right moves... thousands of patents, contributions to Open-Source... Jeez. They might be on to something here.

    1. Re:IBM is on fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:IBM is on fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      thousands of patents, contributions to Open-Source

      Kick the dog all you want. All you need to do is toss him the occasional bone and he'll follow you for life.

    3. Re:IBM is on fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Another parasite... argh... Why cant a small tsunami take him out..

    4. Re:IBM is on fire! by Sj0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fact that a substantial part of IBM has always been research and development makes them a bit different than the opportunists who run around patenting things like one-click shopping.

      Did you know that IBM created the current method for creating ultra high capacity harddrives?

      Those bastards. How *DARE* they spend huge amounts of money, make money back on royalties to their discoveries, and reinvest that capital into making new discoveries!!!

      --
      It's been a long time.
    5. Re:IBM is on fire! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gaining patents is not in itself inhernetly evil. A coworkers son I know works for IBM, and they get bonuses for any sort of patent they receive. IBM is older than dirt, and all that experience has probably shown them, that in order to innovate, you're going to have to defend yourself with patents. IBM of course has the ultimate patent defence, not only because it protects what they've pattented, it also protects them because pretty much EVERYONE has infringed on an IBM patent. But in all honesty I at least feel better that IBM does R&D and actually innovates as opposed to just sitting around and thinking of new things to patent.

      Now abusing the patent system is something else. IBM doesn't need patents to throw its weight around, they can use lawyers for that just as well. I don't view IBM as particularly good, but they have made the effort towards open source, and not just the half hearted try by the likes of HP and Sun.

    6. Re:IBM is on fire! by TheKarateMaster · · Score: 1

      I didn't say I'm a big fan of IBM, but their business strategy lately seems to be quite good.

  2. No surprise there by geekee · · Score: 4, Funny

    IBM is notorious for making people write papers and patents as part of their job description.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
    1. Re:No surprise there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really...I know quite a few people who haven't made senior engineer yet who have zero patents. (IIRC, it might be a requirement.) What you notice after attending quite a few "plateau" lunches is that the same people are the ones who keep getting patent after patent after patent.

      The bulk of the 300k people who work for IBM don't invent anything. It's a tiny minority who are a relentless idea factory.

    2. Re:No surprise there by caino59 · · Score: 1

      at least ibm has opened a lot of things to allow people to use and change stuff they hold legal control over

    3. Re:No surprise there by Humorously_Inept · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No surprise at all. The company I work for has IPR competitions each year and encourages employees to submit their ideas for cash prizes, etc. It's really quite a charade because it seems like they'll consider, demand in fact, absolutely anything from anyone. My job role isn't the sort where I do any technological development and at no point during my day do I have time to sit around and come up with patentable ideas. I don't receive support for any such activity and I'd never be able to pass it off to management as an excuse for being late with my results, but come IPR time I'm magically supposed to have all of these great ideas and I'm expected to just give them up too?

      For what it's worth, I'll openly admit that I'm a bit of a sour employee and that I really don't go out of my way in any regard. :)

      I guess the theory is that in a company with 50000 employees, if you forcibly get 10000 submissions and just a couple percent are passable, then you're building the foundation for your company's futurte. Whether it's a foundation made of stone or straw seems functionally irrelevant.

      --

      ~Someday, I hope to be an aspiring author.
    4. Re:No surprise there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I work at a company that isn't even on the top ten and has the same requirement.
      (At least for researchers above a certain salary grade.)

      I'm expected to come up with at least two patentable inventions per year. Whether those patents are actually filed or just kept trade secret depends on a lot, but it says right in my jobs description two patentable inventions per year. (Just FYI, a single worldwide patent can cost in excess of $250,000 per year to maintain, so I'm sure IBM only patents what it thinks it needs.)

      PS: I actually make physical products in my job, so no bogus business process or software patents for me.

    5. Re:No surprise there by AtrN · · Score: 1

      As are Canon (I worked for them in R&D for ten years).

    6. Re:No surprise there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A tiny minority known as the TJ Watson Research Lab in New York and IBM's other research facilities worldwide.

  3. four digits? by freakybob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't understand how one corporation can have 3,248 original ideas.

    1. Re:four digits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think that the ideas have to be totally "original", they could just be impovements on some existing idea.

    2. Re:four digits? by Dolda2000 · · Score: 5, Funny
      I don't understand how one corporation can have 3,248 original ideas.
      Original ideas? I thought this was patents we were talking about.
    3. Re:four digits? by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 1
      I don't understand how one corporation can have 3,248 original ideas.

      I think about sex once every 7 seconds. Maybe they are all pr0n patents?

    4. Re:four digits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy...You give them $500-$1000 per pop just to FILE the damn things, more if it actually gets granted. Pretty soon you have patents for "A new and novel way to pick your nose." Put a dollar sign on it, anything can happen.

    5. Re:four digits? by domenic+v1.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Anybody who works for IBM knows the thickness of the IP papers they must sign just for working for the company, and if you read the fine print, they basically own everything you can conjure up while being an active employee. With 320,000+ employees, thats a lot of ideas. BUT, most people look over the fact that IBM is one of the, if not THE biggest spender in R&D, and that alone is its biggest investment. For example, the earth simulator came out and stunned the world with its 35-TFlops of supercomuting power. IBM already had 100-TFlops (when its completed, currently its at 70-TFlops) up its sleeve with its Blue Gene supercomputer waiting right around the corner.

      It's simple, IBM invests heavily in its R&D and does not jump in on marketable, fast money-making ideas that fade away as quickly as people buy into it. IBM has been innovators, and its shown by being #1 in patents for the last 11 years.

    6. Re:four digits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Original ideas? I thought this was patents we were talking about.

      Yes, and as anyone knows, mere ideas are not patentable.

    7. Re:four digits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      IBM has been innovators, and its shown by being #1 in patents for the last 11 years.

      But this completely smashes my notion of Microsoft being the innovation company. The constant barrage of remarks they make must mean its true. Right?

      This is truly a sad day now...

  4. patents by sometwo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Everything that can be invented has been invented.
    -- Charles Duell, Director of U.S. Patent Office, 1899

    1. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
      -- Alan Kay

    2. Re:patents by savagedome · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "We don't even give a crap anymore. No really"
      -- Director of U.S. Patent Office, 1999

    3. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      640K ought to be enough for anybody. -- Bill Gates

    4. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer.
      -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

    5. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Andy Rooney said the same thing on 60 Minutes sundahy....

    6. Re:patents by Hork_Monkey · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Damn. Beer + Trolling = Bad Idea.

    7. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, I think you forgot to click 'Post Anonymously' on that one. Now don't you feel like a horse's petute?

    8. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For most of history, Anonymous was a woman.
      -- Virginia Woolf (1882 - 1941)

    9. Re:patents by LadyLucky · · Score: 4, Informative
      Everything that can be invented has been invented.
      -- Charles Duell, Director of U.S. Patent Office, 1899

      Ever hear the context to that quote?

      He was so inundated with work, that he sought more funding from the government. He said that anyone that would deny him more money must think that "everything that can be invented has been invented".

      Changes it a bit.

      --
      dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
    10. Re:patents by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed, but understand, that the parent post is the one modded insightful, and its parent is the one marked funny....

    11. Re:patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Classic. I appreciated your contribution.
      With such an intelligence level I am sure that the flow of traffic will speed up with adjustment of minus -1 dumbass very soon now.

  5. Before the "where's microsoft"... by Stevyn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Remember, these companies actually innovated something.

    And if you're wondering what the hell Matsushita is, well, they basically own everything.

    1. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL how niave you are to think these companies are actually innovative. They are no different to MS, every small and insignificant idea they patent in case one day they can sue someone for it.

    2. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by HiThere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Much as I despise the patent system, I must disagree with you. Many of these companies actually ARE innovating. Many of them ARE doing real discovery. (That said, yes, most of the patents applied for by even these companies are garbage. They are playing the game by the rules that have been written. That they may be lousy rules isn't something they consider very much [except when getting sued because they didn't patent, e.g., waiting in line to use the john on an airplane by holding a ticket instead of by standing in the aile.: Patented by IBM and dedicated to the public as a good will measure].)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by tonsofpcs · · Score: 2, Informative

      Matsushita is Panasonic's parent company. Thay also make products under/for the following brand names: Quasar, GE, JVC, and Technics.

      sources:
      http://www.hoovers.com/matsushita-electric-industr ial-co.,-ltd./--ID__41873--/freeuk-co-factsheet.xh tml, instruction manual from my GE VCR.
      Note: Matsushita doesn't own everything, they just make everything for everyone else

    4. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by GE+CO-OP+Japan · · Score: 1

      GE is General Electric and we make our own Electronics...We are the 2 largest company in the world thank you VERY much

    5. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm, Wal-Mart is #1 Exxon is #2.

      GE is... (drumroll) #9.

      Admittedly, Matsushita is quite a bit lower on the list.

    6. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and you dumped a ton of PCBs and etching fluid into the Hudson and are still paying for cleanup, on a river that now eats the rust off of a 2"-diameter metal rod in about 5 minutes (my friend was working for the Palisades Interstate Park Commission and dropped a metal shovel handle in)

    7. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by afidel · · Score: 1

      GE is #2 on the Forbes 2000 list, #8 by sales, #3 by profits, and #1 by market cap.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    8. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by Halo1 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They are playing the game by the rules that have been written
      And IBM, for one, is pushing very hard to have those rules codified where they aren't yet. They're not innocent poor victims of the system at all. They are the system. They pushed to rules towards what they are today.
      --
      Donate free food here
    9. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      [except when getting sued because they didn't patent, e.g., waiting in line to use the john on an airplane by holding a ticket instead of by standing in the aile.: Patented by IBM and dedicated to the public as a good will measure].

      Wow, what an example.

      You are great.

      HiThere - 15173

      You have an amazing wisdom and power.

      (An honest compliment, turned into a lame Nintendo game reference. Just another day on Slashdot!)

    10. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by ShadowBlasko · · Score: 1

      afidel? You work for Greedy Enterprises too?

      (3rd generation Generous Electric employee, although I just fix the comps. My grandfather, and most of the other adults in my fam worked (or still work) for GE-AEG here in Cincy)

      Funny we have the same sig though

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
    11. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by afidel · · Score: 1

      I worked for GECITS several years ago, now I work for a mid sized consulting firm. I was based out of Cinicinatti when I first came on in mid 2000 though.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    12. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does GE make RCA electronics then as well? I have seen GE and RCA TVs that are identical from the remotes to the button layouts to the onscreen menus.

    13. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Thank you. That's the first actual reference to information on this that I've seen. I'd been about to discount the whole complaint (of IBM supporting patents in Europe) as a FUD campaign.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re:Before the "where's microsoft"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GE rebrands alot of stuff, and other companies sometimes rebrand GE stuff. Most GE VCRs and TVs I have seen are re-branded.

  6. Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Funny

    Working with these two companies closely (lots of PSP and big screen TVs delivered this year), there is one thing that I've noticed with regards to these two companies.

    Matsushita is the good guys. They license their technology out at very low prices, and if a competitor invents a similar technology, they are very unlikely to bring down the weight of their patent portfolio on them.

    Sony, OTOH, is the typical portfolio protector. They are very difficult to work with because their tight-fistedness with patents and IP means that everything they do needs to be negotiated and agreements have to be made between many different IPR holders just to come up with a new product.

    This is also why Matsushita (Panasonic, if you didn't know) is almost universally loved and Sony continues to put out shoddy merchandise.

    1. Re:Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      AHH, People have got to stop giving companies anthropomorphic properties, such as Matsushita "the good guys" and "universally loved", like they're the local hero or some kind of good samaritan.

      These are big powerful companies that have a culture of profit. They are no better, no more human than the computer on your desk.

    2. Re:Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, you also proceed to anthropomorphize them by stating they have a culture.

    3. Re:Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by MdntToker · · Score: 1

      I've actually been working in the IP Law / tech. industry for quite a few years representing a couple different large technology companies.

      I will throw you a bone and agree that Sony is difficult to negotiate with. They seem to need to get permission from too many units of their business before signing off on something.

      However, I think you're WAY off on Sony actively asserting their US patent portfolio. I've gotten "offers to license" on a regular basis from other companies, but have yet to get one from Sony.
      Neither have I heard any rumblings amongst my cohorts along those lines.

      From what point of view are you speaking from?? (how do you work closely with these two companies?)

    4. Re:Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      hmmm that is true. However if I may state that the type of culture referred to is corporate-culture, which I think is a totally from human-culture.

      Corporate-culture is the result of the internal and external relations of an entity, the corporation, which unlike the human has no intrinsic capacity for right and wrong, to understand suffering or even joy.

      It is an entity which has one goal, one purpose, and to classify one company in totality as good or bad is nonsense. It is as bad as define countries as evil, as if everything within it is somehow orientated to doing bad deeds.

    5. Re:Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by SimReg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well in South Korea Matsushita is not loved, since they just brought down some of their patent portfolio weight on a competitor (LG). S Korea responded with banning Matsushita products from being sold after LG complained that Matsushita's product infringed on their S Korean Patents. A brief news article

      Just goes to show you that even the best companies are still competitors, and will use their patents to their advantadge.

    6. Re:Matsushita Good, Sony Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An offer to license is a good thing. Waiting until your product is released and then bashing you about the head with a patent seems to be their modus operandi.

  7. Wait everyone! IBM wins the top notch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Therefore patents aren't nearly as evil compared to if Microsoft had won the most! Since the winner is whom I like instead of my established enemy, I'm a Slashbot!

  8. software patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    it would be more interesting to see the top 10 software patent list

    1. Re:software patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming that the big 3 are doing loads of hardware, it will be more interesting to see where MS hopes to go. These days they are headed towards hardware and they may find some huge obsticles once they put up their own.

  9. IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by tfinniga · · Score: 5, Funny

    I knew a guy who did an internship at IBM - I think he helped do internal IT for their boxes. Anyhow, while he was there, he was showing someone a neat trick he did with the init system on the linux boxes, so that it'd start up an interactive shell on a different terminal as soon as possible. The advantage being that if some process held up the boot, you could fix it (ie kill -9). I think dhcp was a big culprit on the distro they were using.

    Anyhow, his boss recommended that he get a patent on the change.

    So, I'm not too surprised to see them on the list.

    --
    Powered by Web3.5 RC 2
    1. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I might be wrong here but from some conversation I overheard IBM has more or less streamlined, to use the managers word, the process of apllying for a patent. They have lots of folks working only with patents.

    2. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A patent attorney once told me that any problem you solve while developing software is a candidate for a patent.

      IBM is just playing the game. Kudos to them.

    3. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you told the attorney that any patent attorney is a candidate for scum of the week.

    4. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by Sleepy · · Score: 1

      I hope you told the attorney that any patent attorney is a candidate for scum of the week.

      Attorney's don't make patent law. The media might dumb down the world for you, and it's trendy on the conservative lists to blame lawyers. It's your job to be a critical thinker and see through the smokescreen.

      Who made the laws? Who can undo them?

      Write to your congressman. Do it on paper no an email.

    5. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by realdpk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Write to your congressman. Do it on paper no an email."

      Include a check/bribe for their re-election campaign (it doesn't matter when in their term, they're already working on the campaign). Or it's going in the shredder.

    6. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by bit01 · · Score: 1

      Attorney's don't make patent law.

      Are you sure?

      ---

      It's wrong that an intellectual property creator should not be rewarded for their work.
      It's equally wrong that an IP creator should be rewarded too many times for the one piece of work, for exactly the same reasons.
      Reform IP law and stop the M$/RIAA abuse.

    7. Re:IBM's Patent Culture - an anecdote by G00F · · Score: 1

      "Attorney's don't make patent law. . . Who made the laws? Who can undo them?"

      Most people in government have law backgrounds. So yes, those scum lawyers do make the laws.

      --
      The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
  10. Wow! by node+3 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    IBM, Matsushita and Canon must be three extremely bright people to have invented so much in a single year!

    It's wonderful to see the patent system work so well in protecting the rights of the individual to profit from their inventions.

    [caution: this post may contain irony]

    1. Re:Wow! by Peyna · · Score: 4, Informative

      "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;" U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8.

      No mention of individuals; just Authors and Inventors.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [caution: this post may contain irony]

      I think you mean "sarcasm".

      How ironic that you don't know the meaning of ironic.

    3. Re:Wow! by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Um, yeah, right. Ok.

      inventor

      n : someone who is the first to think of or make something


      And:

      author n.
      1.
      1. The writer of a book, article, or other text.
      2. One who practices writing as a profession.
      2. One who writes or constructs an electronic document or system, such as a website.


      So, tell me. Is it possible for a corporate entity to write a book? Is it possible for a corporate entity to be a "someone"? No, I didn't think so. A corporation is a composition of the skills of it's aggrigate members.

      The problem here is that corporations are allowed to act financially like a "person", when indeed they're no more a person than a country is a province/state.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    4. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      IBM, Matsushita and Canon must be three extremely bright people to have invented so much in a single year!
      Yes! now you know where you should not apply for a job.
    5. Re:Wow! by m_pll · · Score: 1
      [caution: this post may contain irony]

      I think you mean "sarcasm".

      How ironic that you don't know the meaning of ironic.

      So you're saying that his post *did* contain irony after all, right?

    6. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, technically, a corporation is a legal "person" of its own. Pays taxes, has legal rights and obligations etc. This is why corporations can be sued directly, and also why corporations themselves can sue.

      One of the advantages of the corporate business model stems from this (ie: limited investor financial liability etc.)

    7. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be confusing "pulling a definition out of your ass" with "the law".

    8. Re:Wow! by shawb · · Score: 1

      Is it possible for a corporate entity to be a "someone"?

      Yes, at least legally speaking, that is in fact the very definition and raison d'etre of a corporation. Basically, it it defines a group of people as a seperate entity from its members, bearing legal rights as though it were an individual. The term corporation is derived from Latin meaning "to be a body" where body, in legal terms again, means an individual.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    9. Re:Wow! by Peyna · · Score: 1

      Read the dictionary section of the US Code.

      --
      What?
    10. Re:Wow! by node+3 · · Score: 1

      I think you mean "sarcasm".

      No, I mean "irony".

      How ironic that you don't know the meaning of ironic.

      You're being ironic, right?

    11. Re:Wow! by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Well, technically, a corporation is a legal "person" of its own. Pays taxes, has legal rights and obligations etc. This is why corporations can be sued directly, and also why corporations themselves can sue.

      And why they can be put in jail, and even executed when they themselves kill?

      Corporations are not people, regardless of the legal definition (along the lines of Mississippi(?) passing a law that the value of pi equals three, doesn't make it true). No corporation has *ever* invented anything. That's because it's impossible, only people (and presumably some other animals) can actually 'invent' something.

    12. Re:Wow! by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Yes, at least legally speaking

      Which was never the point. The point is to point out the absurdity of confusing a corporation with a person.

      The following is what has happened:

      1. In order to facilitate productivity for limited and specific purposes, people were allowed to form a corporation, being granted status similar to that of a person.

      2. To gain more power, corporations exploited that status to gain rights they were never meant to have.

      3. Time has passed, and now it's normal to think of a corporation as a natural entity, worthy of rights equal to that of a person, and any attempt to point out the absurdity of such a claim is met with, "but a corporation is a person, legally speaking!".

    13. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      It's also notable that a corporation can't represent itself.... ONLY by a lawyer...

      No that should tell you something

    14. Re:Wow! by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing:

      The dictionary section of the U.S. code was written after the constitution. Therefore, unless it was approved as a consitutional ammendment, it can't possibly alter the meaning of the constitution from "plain english circa 1780ish".

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    15. Re:Wow! by shawb · · Score: 1

      Okay, I guess that came about a little different than my _ACTUAL_ beliefs. Yes, in legal terms a corporation has all of the rights of an individual. Now, I don't necessarilly think that is morally or ethically right. But according to the legal system that the United States is under, a corporation has all of the rights that an individual is granted. And from what I've seen, a corporation really don't have the burden of what an individual has to carry. Feel free to infer what you will.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    16. Re:Wow! by halaloszto · · Score: 1

      This is sad.
      If a corporation is a person just like me, that's pretty bad for me.
      I have only two hands while a corp. has many. Sure they will beat me. vajk

    17. Re:Wow! by lfourrier · · Score: 1
      Yes, in legal terms a corporation has all of the rights of an individual.

      When will a corporation do jail time, and how ?

    18. Re:Wow! by -brazil- · · Score: 1
      Yes, in legal terms a corporation has all of the rights of an individual.


      Certainly not ALL of them. Last time I checked, corporations did not have the right to vote or hold a public office. Not officially, anyway.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    19. Re:Wow! by Peyna · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Constitution is to be interpretted "in the original intent of its authors," without necessarily any regard to what "plain english" might have been at the time.

      --
      What?
    20. Re:Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are a damn idiot

    21. Re:Wow! by QMO · · Score: 1

      There are three basic kinds of irony.

      1. Dramatic Irony
      2. Situational Irony
      3. Verbal Irony (aka Sarcasm)

      I'm sure that there are other ways to classify different kinds of irony, but a high school English class can only go so far.

      --
      Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
    22. Re:Wow! by hacksoncode · · Score: 1
      Ummm... A corporation, when you come right down to it, is nothing more nor anything less than a bunch of people (investors, employees, etc.).

      A bunch of people can certainly invent something, and I see no reason why they shouldn't collectively own it.

      A corporations legal status as a "person" is an interesting choice for the government to make, but it's not completely out of line. It's basically a "crowd". Treating a crowd as an entity in itself has considerable scientific and practical evidence in its favor.

    23. Re:Wow! by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      There's nothing much more official than the smell and color of money, unfortunately. :-/

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    24. Re:Wow! by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Treating a crowd as an entity in itself has considerable scientific and practical evidence in its favor.

      And treating a crowd just like a person is scientifically retarded. Most of your argument has nothing to do with mine.

      Ummm... A corporation, when you come right down to it, is nothing more nor anything less than a bunch of people (investors, employees, etc.).

      "Nothing more"? Are the posters on slashdot a corporation? No. A corporation is a legal entity to describe, define, and organize a group of people. It's like saying a baseball team is nothing more than a group of people. It's a certain type of group of people plus the rules and structure of baseball.

      A bunch of people can certainly invent something, and I see no reason why they shouldn't collectively own it.

      I've never argued that a group of people can't own or invent something collectively or cooperatively. But, the corporation "IBM" never invented anything. It's impossible. The employees (who aren't necessarily even members of the IBM corporation (ie: they have no ownership of IBM)) do the inventing. Yet IBM, the corporation, gets the rewards of the inventions. My post was meant to point out that we give IBM and Matsushita, etc, credit for all of their "inventions", when the actual inventors (for whom you'd want the patent system to protect) don't get much protection, in effect, at all.

    25. Re:Wow! by node+3 · · Score: 1

      you are a damn idiot

      No, but you're both an idiot and a coward. Look up the word "irony".

      Be gone, pathetic, cowardly idiot.

  11. Amazon? by kaedemichi255 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why are people still railing on Amazon? Other than the controversial one-click patent a few years back, what have they done? I just think it's a little farfetched to be putting Amazon into the same "evil empire" category as Microsoft.

    1. Re:Amazon? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the reason is some posters and most mods here are communists

    2. Re:Amazon? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      They helped kill two of my favorite local bookstores, leaving exactly none. I said "helped" because Barnes and Noble are comparably evil... but you asked. Also, please don't ask me about Starbucks!

    3. Re:Amazon? by ces · · Score: 1

      They helped kill two of my favorite local bookstores, leaving exactly none. I said "helped" because Barnes and Noble are comparably evil... but you asked. Also, please don't ask me about Starbucks!

      That's funny I live in Seattle which is sort of ground-zero for both Amazon and Starbuck's (not to mention a certain large software monopoly). The thing is we still have plenty of non-chain bookstores here. If you ask the owners what the biggest threat to their business is they will usually mention the chain bookstores like B&N or Borders long before they mention Amazon.

      As for Starbucks I really don't get the accusation that they kill off other coffee places. If anything Starbucks increases the local market for decent coffee by introducing people to it in the first place. In Seattle for example, there are several other medium-sized coffee chains that started in the shadow of Starbucks, along with several small local coffee chains and countless independant espresso bars and stands.

      --
      Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
  12. Poor Nikon... by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Considering that Nikon SLRs are already a lot less advanced (technologically) as compared to their Canon counterparts, I really wonder if Canon's huge portfolio is going to further bite Nikon in their proverbial a$$ :(

    1. Re:Poor Nikon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm, well in the end, it's not about a technological camera, it's about the photos the cameras and photographers produce. Since 70% of the professional photographers use Nikon, that's good enough for me. Don't let technology get in the way of creativity.

  13. 320,000 employees. That's how. by attemptedgoalie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That and a culture of research and development.

    You get a lot of smart people, ask that they publish, and watch what happens.

    Add that to the understanding that licensing is just free money for stuff you don't feel like building yourself, and it's very smart.

    --
    My mom says I'm cool.
  14. Bell Labs ( aka Lucent ) ??? by stox · · Score: 1

    Not even on the list. My, how times change.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  15. Of course by Primotech · · Score: 0

    "IBM alone was granted 3,248 patents last year." ...and sold them all to China.

    1. Re:Of course by tartanblue · · Score: 1

      Good point, the only things IBM is involved in are desktops and laptops.

      --
      TartanBlue
  16. Re:Wait everyone! IBM wins the top notch! by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Considering that patents time out after 17 years I almost agree with you. That's not time for a change in top management to make a thorough change in corporate culture.

    But don't lose track of the fact that you can't trust IBM. You can only kind-of trust the people that work for IBM. It's not as bad for IBM to have the patents, because they don't have a rabid rat corporate culture. But that is subject to change. By both sides (though Bill would have to die first).

    Still, the fact remains that if there exists a centralized point of control (as, for example, a patent) then it will tend to be siezed by someone who will use it to their personal advantage, and wil ignore any damage they are doing to others. (In fact they may cause damage on purpose in order to reduce the ability of others to compete.)

    So patents are, given human nature, inherrently evil. I'll agree that this is a contingent fact, but what it's contingent on is human nature, and that doesn't seem to have changed significantly since language first appeared.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  17. US Govt? by Doomie · · Score: 1

    If you follow the link to USPTO from TFA -- here -- you'll see that the US Govt. has 829 patents for 2004. I find it interesting how/why a government can patent things.

    Anyone can explain why the US Govt. patents stuff?

    --
    Doomie
    1. Re:US Govt? by TechnologyX · · Score: 0

      I'd say they have a lot of stuff that we don't even know about yet. Or maybe they're working on new "internets" ;)

      --
      Slashdot sucks
    2. Re:US Govt? by Nasarius · · Score: 1

      People working in DOE labs, perhaps?

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
    3. Re:US Govt? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Publicly funded research should belong to the public, that should make a lot of sense to slashdotters. As far as I can tell, the government allows anyone to freely use the patents that it owns.

      Before 1980, the US government would take ownership of patents for any invention created as part of a federally funded project. After 1980(Carter Administration), government contractors could own patents to things they were hired to create. But on the condition that the government can freely use the patent, because they already paid for it as part of contracting. Basically no royalties for the gov, but the contractors can collect royalties from other companies or governments of other nations.

      On a related topic, the government cannot own copyrights. Which is why many official forms are public domain. But the government can license copyrighted material. And contractors can copyright things they create for the government. So occasionally you'll find funny forms or publications that you need permission to duplicate.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    4. Re:US Govt? by NekSnappa · · Score: 0

      Uh.... 1980 was when Reagan was elected to his first term. I can't understand why people always feel the need to be so harsh on one of the few men to sit in the Oval Office who wasn't a belly crawling scumbag.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
  18. Patent.. by Renraku · · Score: 1

    3,000+ patents.

    Does the USPTO have time to review all of these patents for accuracy/authenticy?

    --
    Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    1. Re:Patent.. by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      Does the USPTO have time to review all of these patents for accuracy/authenticy?


      They have at least until the cheque clears. :-P

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Patent.. by Joel+from+Sydney · · Score: 1

      17,856 just among the top ten patent holders. Even assuming that nobody else patented anything (which we know is false), that equates to 50 odd patents every day. Exclude weekends, public holidays, and that jumps to 70 patents per day. Just for the top 10 patent holders.

      How long does it really take to evaluate a patent? I would think it takes several days, at the very least.

    3. Re:Patent.. by hsmith · · Score: 1

      do you realize how many people work at the USPTO? Have you ever been there? They have people to review each patent.

      it isn't a "stamp through" organization by any means.

  19. IBM: Patent Philanthropists? by Eil · · Score: 2, Interesting


    No idea if this has been mentioned yet, but I ran across an article yeterday that says that IBM is donating 500 of its software patents to the open source community.

    Here's hoping this ends up being more than the symbolic public affairs move it resembles on the surface.

    1. Re:IBM: Patent Philanthropists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No idea if this has been mentioned yet
      Right here
    2. Re:IBM: Patent Philanthropists? by Halo1 · · Score: 1

      Read this for a different perspective on that.

      --
      Donate free food here
    3. Re:IBM: Patent Philanthropists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got a link too.

      http://swpat.ffii.org/gasnu/ibm/index.en.html

  20. I'm not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would anyone on /. think that a company with approx. 300,000 employees, including many of the brightest people in CS, be able to come up with that many ideas?

  21. Slashvertisement???? by MasterC · · Score: 1

    Why link from itfacts.biz when you can get the same data and a bit more write-up directly from the source? (See the source link on the itfacts.biz site.)

    --
    :wq
  22. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interestingly, prostoalex by far has his submissions posted the most -- way more often than Roland. However, nobody ever feels the need to complain about him at all.

    I don't know exactly what's going on there, but the fact that Roland, with much less frequent posts, gets such a tsunami of criticism speak volumes.

  23. This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Zebbers · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While looking into this for a post on my blog I came across the same numbers. IBM donating 500 patents seems really lame when they got 1300 this year alone and have led the US for the PAST 12 YEARS. I know IBM is a linux friendly company, but they are still a company and they are still patent happy. Now, it could be that they are protecting themselves from other people patenting their technology but still, it is interesting. I made the analogy that IBMs release of those 500 patents is the technological equivalent of picking through their garbage: they obviouslly don't have use for it anymore.

    1. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how many of those 1300 patents are even related to software? A large percentage of IBM patents are for things like semiconductor processes (you know stuff that actually *should* be patentable, but I digress) and doesn't really relate to OSS at all.

      Remember - IBM actually makes hardware.

    2. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Jonny_eh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't forget that IBM develops products other than software. Gasp! They develop hardware too! Hardware patents have been around as long as hardware has been around. I doubt many people here really care about them, and they aren't a threat to Open-Source software.
      It's those stupid little software patents that are the issue. IBM doesn't need to give 1 patent to open-source, but 500 is more than enough to be considered 'a lot' by my books.
      Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If IBM wants to give you something for free, take it!

    3. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Knetzar · · Score: 1

      Lets see here, IBM develops a lot of open-source code. IBM also develops a lot of closed-source code. If IBM wants to start using some techniques that they patented in open-source code (such as samba), then they are going to need to donate those patents.
      I like IBM, I really do, but they are looking out for themselves and their investers. It just so happenes that at the moment, they are betting on open-source.

    4. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      From the summary:

      IBM alone was granted 3,248 patents last year.

      That would seem to imply that the 1300 patents mentioned by the OP are all software ones (assuming that they've not really been granted 1300 patents in the last few days, and that he meant 2004)

      Seen in that light, the 500 (while doubtless still generous) are less than half of a single year's worth. Doesn't seem quite so impressive to me anymore...

    5. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Fire+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Seen in that light, the 500 (while doubtless still generous) are less than half of a single year's worth. Doesn't seem quite so impressive to me anymore...

      500 patents IBM recently donated is impressive amount, no matter how many they were granted granted last year. Or how usefull and profitingg those patens are to IBM at the moment.

      This is addition to time that IBM developers spend on open source projects to develope those benefitial to IBM at the moment. These developers still get paid by the IBM, so this adds their commitment to open source. And nothing at thome moment indicates that IBM wouldn't donate more patens that they don't need any more in future.

      Only reason for IBM to drop their support and these ipmpressive gifts is the attitude of community. If we complain that we don't get enough, we won't be getting any in future.

      500 out of 1300 this year is still a lot of possible income from those patents. How many of us can say that we spend third of our income on open-source, addition to time spend?

    6. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. They even patented the Hollerith machines used to monitor the slaughter of 2 million jews.

      Microsoft is evil because it bundled Internet Explorer with it's operating system. IBM is cool, because, ... we're too stupid to think clearly?

      Great.

    7. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well it's not just a matter of how many software patents but also how many could be useful for the Open Source projects that IBM wants to encourage.

    8. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take their gifts and praise them for their generosity. The next thing I know you will praise them for lobbying the EU to adopt software patents. But then "Gasp!" You're all surprised what IBM does with their "Gasp!" SOFTWARE patents.

      http://swpat.ffii.org/gasnu/ibm/index.en.html

    9. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by SmokeHalo · · Score: 1

      Before you dismiss the release of those patents as "picking through their garbage", why don't you take a look at what they are? It could be that they've released quite a few worthwhile, useful items that could fuel strong advances and innovations.

      --
      I'm not good in groups. It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent. - Q
    10. Re:This is why IBMs 500 patent gift is pure PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a PR stunt - They are giving away 500 patents that they couldn't enforce anyway.

      Most of those patents cover open source software that IBM already distributes. They can't very well give out Linux distributions that use the patented technologies and then sue people for using it. So they just made it official and stated they wouldn't enforce the patents.

  24. It's a good argument against "user fees" by ShatteredDream · · Score: 1

    I have always been taken aback by the argument from my fellow libertarians in favor of users fees. If there is any part of society we don't want operating on greed, it is an institution that has the ability to back up its rules with lethal force and the depravation of liberty and property. Take a good look at what the USPTO is doing today and look at what it used to do when it was paid for with tax revenues only.

    I think there is a good libertarian case for why user fees are a terrible idea. I personally favor the use of consumption taxes as an alternative since they are the best of both worlds. They tie the government's revenues to the health of the society and yet they keep the government from gaining a financial incentive to disregard quality of service and ethics.

    1. Re:It's a good argument against "user fees" by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      User fees aren't a libertarian idea; in fact, they don't have anything at all to do with libertarianism. The government - city, local, state, federal - all charge 'user fees' for a variety of different services right now, and I can't see anything remotely libertarian about any of these entities.

      I don't agree with user fees either, btw. I fail to see the logic in forking out an ungodly sum from my paycheck for taxes that supposedly support necessary government functions, then doing so again for 'extra' services (e.g., vehicle registration, permit to add on to a house, and so forth. What, these aren't 'necessary government functions'???).

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  25. Re:Wait everyone! IBM wins the top notch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The purpose of the patent is to place in the public domain a description of an invention that is detailed enough to allow others to recreate that invention. If patents did not exist, many large corporations would simply choose to hide their inventions from the public. The patent is a contract between the government and the corporation or individual. In exchange for protecting the invention for a limited time, the corporation or individual gives to the people of the United States the entire description of the invention. In this way the people have available to them a vast store of knowledge that would never have become public, inventions that would have gone to the grave with their inventors. I find it odd that so many "open-source" proponents deride the patent when it was in fact the first open-source consortium founded in the new world. I would also like the reader to note that the time period between when a patent is filed and when it is granted is in most cases a period of years rather than months. Most of the erroneous patents I have seen mentioned on Slashdot are considered simplistic simply because of the summary provided by the Slashdot poster. When reading the patent itself, one usually finds that the patent is much more intricate than the poster would like one to believe.

  26. The reason Amazon/Microsoft get so much pub by ZeeExSixAre · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The reason that Amazon and Microsoft get so much publicity is because their patents are often not really patents, or they're attempting to patent something that shouldn't be patented. In a word, they're not patenting ideas so much as they're trying to patent things we already do.

    The top patent recipients are actually innovating, leveraging their R&D power and making progress instead of leveraging their lawyer power and hindering progress in legal battles.

    1. Re:The reason Amazon/Microsoft get so much pub by figleaf · · Score: 1

      Having worked as a programmer with patent offices of HP I know that is very untrue.
      IBM has has it fair share of dubious patents.

      Consider Patent 6,839,893 awarded to IBM for example. This is patent with clear prior art. I had used debuggers back in 1995 which were capable of pointing out unreachable breakpoints.

      The reason that Amazon and Microsoft get so much publicity in Slashdot are other obvious reasons.

    2. Re:The reason Amazon/Microsoft get so much pub by Tower · · Score: 1

      ah, but was the method publicly published or patented before? That would be the key to prior art. Ifit isn't publicly known that it exists and how it is done, it is "patentable" under the current system.

      IBM does publish a lot of whitepapers for ideas that aren't deemed patentable, but are still useful, so that there is a public record of the idea - this (supposedly) prevents anyone else from patenting it.

      --
      "It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
    3. Re:The reason Amazon/Microsoft get so much pub by krgallagher · · Score: 1
      " The reason that Amazon and Microsoft get so much publicity is because their patents are often not really patents, or they're attempting to patent something that shouldn't be patented."

      Exactly! If you look at the list, the top companies are all hardware companies. That is what patents are for, hardware. The problem with Microsoft and Amazon is that they are software and service companies. There is no hardware involved. A patent for software that responds differently to a single click and a double click is preposterous. Now if it was a piece of hardware that generated a different signal based on whether it was clicked once or twice, that would be reasonable to patent, but you would patent the circuit design, not the concept.

      --

      Insert Generic Sig Here:

    4. Re:The reason Amazon/Microsoft get so much pub by jdhutchins · · Score: 1

      IBM may have dubious patents, but they don't use them. I haven't seen them sue gcc (or any other complier) becuase it could point out unreachable breakpoints, violating their patenet. Amazon has threatened to sue people for One-Click shopping. Just becuase IBM has it, doesn't mean they're going to defend it. Some patents are obvious worthwhile and they will defend, but others they will just let slide.

  27. IBM by slavemowgli · · Score: 1

    Interesting. So, how many patents does IBM have, all in all?

    --
    quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
    1. Re:IBM by CortoMaltese · · Score: 2, Informative
      I don't know how reliable a figure this is, but a search for IBM as the applicant in the world wide patent database at the European Patent Office's Esp@cenet Portal produces result:

      RESULT LIST
      Approximately 100000 results found in the Worldwide database for:
      IBM as the applicant
    2. Re:IBM by CortoMaltese · · Score: 0
      Another search at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office returns for post-1975 U.S. patents:

      Searching 1976 to present...
      Results of Search in 1976 to present db for:
      AN/("International Business Machines" OR IBM): 39148 patents.
      Hits 1 through 50 out of 39148

      As this result does not include non-U.S. nor pre-1976 patents, I guess this is pretty much in line with the world wide search result.

    3. Re:IBM by slavemowgli · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Wow, that's quite a bit...

      --
      quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
  28. Re:Wait everyone! IBM wins the top notch! by shawb · · Score: 1

    So patents are, given human nature, inherrently evil. I'll agree that this is a contingent fact, but what it's contingent on is human nature, and that doesn't seem to have changed significantly since language first appeared.

    Reading this for some reason made me come up with a possible correlate. Even if it is not in human nature for _ALL_ people to be greedy (which is the subset of evil that I believe this thread is covering) it would only take a small number of greedy people to start taking advantage of the system. Once they start taking advantage of the system (patents in this case) they then give themselves an additional adge which allows them to take even more advantage, giving them an even larger edge, untill some other mitigating factor comes in to play.

    I suppose this concept is strongly supported by the concept of the "tragedy of the commons" in which any shared limited resource will eventually become overexploited, in this case the resource being ideas. Tragedy of the commons is often thrown about in social sciences, eccology and economics and provides an interesting viewpoint on creating government decisions. I say government because by the nature of reality, the individuals involved will never come to an agreement; some judge or authority has to step in and draw boundaries and limits.

    --
    I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  29. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by realdpk · · Score: 1

    However, have you noticed that in the above post, the pertinant linkage did not go to prostoalex's site? That's the difference.

  30. That explain microsoft's products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah.. that explains why new microsoft products are lacking any innovative features :D

  31. These patents were filed 3 or 4 years ago by louarnkoz · · Score: 5, Insightful
    There is a delay between the time a patent is applied for and the time it is allocated. The patent office is throughly congested, and the delay keeps increasing. Nowadays, it is at least 3 or 4 years. The statistics in the parent article describe the patents granted in 2004. The corresponding applications were probably done in 1999, 2000 or 2001.

    IBM has been filing patents for many years, and has maintained more or less the same level over the years. On the other hand, four years ago, we did not hear much about Microsoft filing patents. So, their absence in the top 10 is not all that surprising.

  32. It's how you use it. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How would IBM use its patents? How would Microsoft use its patents?

    True, I dislike all patents. I'd rather have a perfect system of government where patents had a lifespan of, say, six months.

    But in the real world, I approve of any method of using and abusing government and governmental power, so long as it's by somebody I like. Patents are a loophole in a sense, but loopholes are tools, and like guns or axes or computers, the user defines the tool, not the other way around.

    So, patents cannot be evil any more than guns can. But Microsoft can definitely be more evil than IBM.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  33. No. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1
    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  34. Send parent to USPTO! by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    The most innovative patent this year, I'll bet!

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  35. Re:Wait everyone! IBM wins the top notch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MOD PARENT UP!!!

  36. Better colours by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  37. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roland's last posts:
    Morse Code Used by Human Cells? - link to his blog
    Engineered Enhancers Closer Than You Think - link to his blog
    Transparent Transistors Are Coming - link to his blog
    DURL, a Search Tool for del.icio.us - link to his blog
    IBM Prepares 100-Terabyte Tape Drives - link to his blog

    prostoalexs' last posts:
    USPTO Released List of Top 10 Patent Receivers - link to stats site
    Business Week On Desktop Search Economics - link to Business Week
    Start Your Own Open Source-Based Telecom - link to zd
    Free Introduction to Networking Book - link to the source
    Wireless Security By The Gallon - link to Information Week magazine

    See the difference?

  38. Building corporate goodwill by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Corporations are considered "the good guys" if their corporate culture involves building goodwill through being a good corporate citizen. Goodwill can be monetized as the value of a corporation's trademarks.

    1. Re:Building corporate goodwill by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      All corporations are sociopathic by definition. It's how they're constructed. This is furthered by the fact that corporations have the same rights as individuals, and that corporate employees can often commit crimes without fear of prosecution because they can hide behind a corporate legal shield.

      There are no "good" corporations. If one acts in what appears to be a beneficial manner, it isn't because this giant pseudo-organic monstrous entity has suddenly developed (on a Borg-like scale) a conscience, but rather because it sees some way to profit from that activity.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    2. Re:Building corporate goodwill by tepples · · Score: 1

      There are no "good" corporations. If one acts in what appears to be a beneficial manner, it isn't because this giant pseudo-organic monstrous entity has suddenly developed (on a Borg-like scale) a conscience, but rather because it sees some way to profit from that activity.

      Conscience is profitable by building goodwill, which boosts sales volume in the long term. So if we could get legislatures to make conscience even more profitable, then would that be a Win(tm)?

    3. Re:Building corporate goodwill by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      You'd first have to have legislators with a conscience. And just how likely is *that*?

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    4. Re:Building corporate goodwill by Infamous+Tim · · Score: 1

      Your sig is extremely offensive to us Christians, don't suppose you'd consider changing it would you? Thanks

      --
      checking for libvirus... no
      ERROR, libvirus.so not found, terminating
    5. Re:Building corporate goodwill by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      Your sig is extremely offensive to us Christians, don't suppose you'd consider changing it would you?

      Not in this lifetime.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    6. Re:Building corporate goodwill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [I won't change my sig that puts down Christians] in this lifetime.

      The Christian God became a man named Yeshua (Hebrew for salvation; called Jesús or Isa in some tongues) and at age 33 died nailed to a wooden cross and was put in a tomb. He stayed dead for days. But then he came back to life. Can your god do this?

    7. Re:Building corporate goodwill by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      Prove it.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  39. USPTO budget allocation is *negative* by tepples · · Score: 1

    There's a difference among a tax-funded agency, a user-fee-funded agency that takes nearly zero tax dollars, and a negatively tax-funded agency. The USPTO is negatively tax-funded; Congress siphons off patent fees to the general treasury. If the USPTO were allowed full use of application fee revenues, it could probably hire examiners to do a more thorough job of checking each patent application against the prior art.

  40. well... by priestx · · Score: 0

    IBM isnt a new company. They've been around for a very long time. They've been granted hundreds of thousands of patents.

    --
    "To be is to do." -Socrates
    "To do is to be." -Jean-Paul Sartre
    "Do-be-do-be-do." -Frank Sinatra
  41. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess I was unclear. I meant that the difference in how the two are perceived by slashdotters (nobody minds prostoalex; Roland is totally despised) is due to Roland's continued theft of content to fatten his wallet and the shady relationship between Roland and the editor(s).

  42. on the upside... by null-sRc · · Score: 1

    ...when somewhat useless obscure things get patented, it hopefully means that it will be public domain by the time that anything usefull comes out of it... :)

    --
    -judging another only defines yourself
  43. I smell some unhappy Microsofties.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    why, oh why is IBM lauded when they get FAR more patents each year than poor ol' Microsoft???


    I'll give you a clue guys. IBM patented a method of cramming a LOT more data into each inch of hard-drive space. (Pixie dust)


    Microsoft patented the double-click (IN 2004!).

  44. Listen Before Cook Microwaves :) by flatulus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can't resist mentioning this silly episode.

    In July 1992, I was attending an IEEE 802.11 meeting. The company I worked for at the time was making a major series of presentations - "coming out of the closet", as it were, after many months of revealing nothing whatsoever about their WLAN development program.

    At one point, the presenter (a colleague of mine) was asked, "Your error correction scheme seems extreme. Do you really think interference in the 2.4 GHz band is going to be that bad?"

    My colleague pointed to me (in the audience) and asked me to repeat a remark I had made during a coffee break, where I said, "Well, I've never seen such a thing as a Listen Before Cook microwave oven!"

    ("Listen Before Talk" was a new phrase coined by one of the committee members to defuse more silliness of arguing over the term "carrier sense", which had a somewhat different meaning to RF engineers as opposed to Ethernet engineers. I found the analogy appropriate -- i.e. "talk" :: "cook").

    I got a brief chuckle from the committee, but no mention in the meeting minutes, so the event was lost in obscurity.

    However, years later, I was searching for a particular kind of patent for a microwave oven invention I had in mind, when I came across:

    Patent No. 6,346,692: "Adaptive Microwave Oven". In brief, this patent describes an invention wherein a microwave oven "listens" to the 2.4 GHz band before turning on its magnetron, on a cycle-by-cycle basis, so as to avoid interference with RF communications in the same spectrum. I.E. "Listen Before Cook." The patent was awarded in 2002 to two persons (presumably) employed by Agere Systems, since Agere is the assignee for this patent.

    How's that for prior art?

    P.S. My "other" microwave oven invention had to do with "listening to the sound of popping corn" to determine when the pop rate was declining, thereby determining the right time to turn off the oven, avoiding the Blackened Redenbacher Syndrome. Sadly, I was beat to that particular punch -- a broader patent existed that covered "auditory feedback" in controlling microwave oven operation.

  45. The stories that you don't hear by Anthony+Liguori · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What you don't hear about is that fact that to file a patent, one must present the idea in front of a committee (called an Invention Evaluation Board) which does an initial search on the idea and evaluation of business value, then the patent lawyers do their own internal search (before sending to the patent office), then you write up the patent with a lawyer (all the time modifying to take into account any existing work), then IBM sends the patent to the patent office so the patent office can do it's search.

    By the time IBM sends out a patent, it's already gone through an exhaustive evaluation by very intelligent people. Patents cost a lot of money to file. IBM has no interest in filing useless patents. And yes, there is a culture that if an idea seems at all novel then file a disclosure because we have such a strong process in place to determine if that idea should become a patent.

    And is IBM using it's portfolio to do negatively? Nope. Patents are a necessary evil. Any large company has to file patents to protect itself. Being that IBM is the largest technology company in existance (320,000 employees, revenue of $86 billion a year), it's only fitting that it files the most patents.

    1. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Halo1 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      And is IBM using it's portfolio to do negatively? Nope.
      Yeah, right.
      Patents are a necessary evil. Any large company has to file patents to protect itself.
      By lobbying as hard as it can to get the broken software patent system as it exists in the US codified in Europe?
      --
      Donate free food here
    2. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      One article from 8 years ago is hardly the most convincing rebuttal.

    3. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Halo1 · · Score: 3, Informative
      One article from 8 years ago is hardly the most convincing rebuttal.
      It's still one article more than what the original poster provided. But if you want more... They are not just passive bystanders that are victims of the system, they are actively lobbying for ever expanding boundaries of patentability. You do not do that if you think you will not be able to extra more licensing money from others that way, or if you think you won't be able to leverage your huge patent portfolio to exercise control on the market.
      --
      Donate free food here
    4. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow you are right, IBM is evil! Oh wait, that was... *8* YEARS AGO!

      I guess the times, companies, and people don't change in 8 years. Nope, never.

    5. Re:The stories that you don't hear by LordNimon · · Score: 1
      What you don't hear about is that fact that to file a patent, one must present the idea in front of a committee

      Not true. I worked at IBM for a couple years until last year, and I submitted several "invention disclosures", two of which were submmitted to the USPTO. For those two, I never had to appear before the patent review board (I never heard the term "Invention Evaluation Board". In fact, for the 10 or so invention disclosures I submitted, I only had to appear once before the PRB.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    6. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
      IBM may be the new cool, but it wasn't always so, and in comparison to their early practices Microsoft has been a pale saint in the market. I remember hearing a rumour about Memorex a decade or so ago, why they filed for bankruptcy -- seems their 3rd party DASD was perceived as a threat to IBM's own monopoly-priced units. IBM identified a key component in the Memorex unit, then bought out the entire market on that component -- several years production of it, all vendors, even though they had no use for it. Memorex couldn't continue manufacturing the disks, and had to file for protection via Chapter 11. Whether or not this was true, it does show that patents aren't the only way you can abuse power in a water economy.

      Please note than in an egregious attempt at covering my tail, I declare that all of the above is a patent falsehood. Besides, I live in a foreign country. Neenur neenur neenur!

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    7. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Anthony+Liguori · · Score: 1

      What group did you work for? The IEBs are organized at the divisional level. In Systems group and Software group it's the only way to file a patent. Since those two groups make up a large majority of all patents filed, I don't know if other organizations have IEBs in place.

    8. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Anthony+Liguori · · Score: 1

      November 1998: IBM kills study on software patents by the Whitehouse

      Your link is just about as shady as it gets. Look, it doesn't matter what patents IBM files. Has IBM (in recent times) used it's patent portfolio to squash competition or to do generally evil things? No.

      IBM has invented a good chunk of the technology out there today. The article mentions pursuing patent claims against Oracle, well, IBM invented the relational database! A lot of companies exist and make lots of money based on technologies that IBM invented but did not pursue.

    9. Re:The stories that you don't hear by Halo1 · · Score: 1

      Your link is just about as shady as it gets. Look, it doesn't matter what patents IBM files.

      It does matter that IBM is actively trying to expand the borders of patentable subject matter, and actively lobbying (both at patent offices and with politicians) to get the broken US system introduced in Europe.

      Has IBM (in recent times) used it's patent portfolio to squash competition or to do generally evil things? No.

      How many small European software companies do you think can play the patent game? Do you think IBM does not know this? IBM knows that no-one else can compete with them in the patent race, and even if someone else has a patent, they can get access to a cheap/free license because of the tons of patents they have.

      See the remark at the top of page 4 of this testimony to the European Commission. That reference dates back to 1990, but there is no reason to assume that they stopped leveraging this competitive advantage while at the same time obtaining more and more patents, and starting to enforce their patents more actively from 1993 onwards (see slide 13, the curve does not flatten because R&D spending declines, but because patent license income goes up).

      IBM has invented a good chunk of the technology out there today. The article mentions pursuing patent claims against Oracle, well, IBM invented the relational database!

      Yes, and IBM tried to claim it invented case conversion using a lookup table (click on the patent number to get the pdf). Fortunately, there was prior art.

      You also seem to assume that because someone did something first, they have a natural right to a monopoly on doing that. They don't. Patent law is a purely economical law which introduces artificial monopolies in the market. You only do that if you find out the market is running completely haywire due to the absence of such monopolies. IBM's early software work was not patented either, simply because there were no software patents. Did IBM suffer because of that? Of course not, they benefited a lot from he fact that the creators of VisiCalc hadn't patented "the database", even though they "invented" it.

      Software patents are not necessary to keep the software market at large innovating or functioning correctly. Even enquiries by pro-swpat institutes like Max Planck and Fraunhofer show that competition is the main driving force to keep innovating. If you don't innovate, your competitor will and you lose.

      Time to market and copyright give you a small lead time advantage, and the fact that the resulting monopolies are either fairly narrow but long (copyright) or broad but short (trade secret) means that the industry can keep moving at a high pace and does not require the high transaction costs associated with patents (and without requiring huge cross licensing deals between large companies).

      A lot of companies exist and make lots of money based on technologies that IBM invented but did not pursue.

      And IBM makes a lot of money on innovations from other people. Additionally, you don't hear about the individual cases where companies like IBM press other companies into paying for licenses, unless they go to court (which is only a very small fraction, who can fight IBM in court?). Companies also do not publicise that kind of things, since the fact that they have to pay 1% to 5% of their revenue on a product to IBM (or anyone else) is not good publicity.

      Exactly because such cases are not publicised by anyone, there are

      --
      Donate free food here
    10. Re:The stories that you don't hear by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      I worked for the "Server" group, I think, on the i- and p-series servers. You know how IBM is: re-org every six month with minor name changes that only serve to confuse people.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
  46. Patents vs Software Patents. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most patents are OK. The ones that we have to watch out for is Software Patents and frivilious Patents.

    IBM is one of the few companies that still does pure research... and make money off of it. IBM could close down it's mainframe business, it's CPU design and fabrication, and eliminate all divisions that have to do with making, reselling, and providing service contracts....

    If all they had left was the research division, they still would make a crapload of money.

    So it's not suprising that they get lots of patents. They are doing a lot and is actually creating new technology that it resells to other manufacturers.

    Take the Cell technology, the Playstation 3, the IBM chip design people and Sony. Sony is going to use IBM for their technology and design resources and experiance, but they are going to manufacture the actual CPU in purely Sony-owned manufacturer facilities.

    That's the sort of IBM that is around nowadays.

    So IBM gets lots of patents. So what?

    What I am curious to know is how many of these patents are for SOFTWARE and their track record. That's what matters.

    Also frivolious patents.

    How many of IBM patents are like "Method for pressing buttons" or "Virtual Windows" like the type that MS churns out?

    I am no IBM fanboy, but I understand that they do engage in more research and developement then any other company in existance. I can be convinced that all these patents are a bad idea in terms of IBM...

    But if they aren't for software (which I know some of them are, I am just curious to the percentages and types) and for actual REAL creativity and inventiveness, then all the more power to IBM.

    Oh and if you don't understand why software patents in paticular suck, but other patents can be a very good thing. Read thru the documents linked in the following (from the league of programming freedom):
    http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/patents.h tml

    1. Re:Patents vs Software Patents. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's face it, you're an IBM fanboy and you're in denial. Now that IBM give 500 useless software patents to Open Source for publicity, you're in defense mode.

      What is a frivolous software patent to a lawyer, to the people granting software patents, or to your mom?

      http://swpat.ffii.org/gasnu/ibm/index.en.html

  47. concentrate on what matters by l3v1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Despite the frequent publicity around Microsoft's or Amazon's frivolous patents, these two companies are not even on the list.

    It's not the quantity that matters, it's quality and topic. I mean, I don't suppose anyone minds when some company developes something useful and patents the stuff. I suppose the most of the granted patents are hardware-related, which -if it's so - I can highly appreciate and have nothing against. The reason so many people complain regarding MS-related (or Amazon, and the like) submitted and/or granted patents are the sometimes even ridiculous nature of what they seem to want to patent (just rememeber "ifnot" and the like).

    Eh, but most of you already know all this so you know, I just felt that I have to drop my 2c.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  48. IBMs 500 sw patent gift is CERTAINLY NOT pure PR by Titaniq · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It certainly is PR. If only because it got all media talking about IBM, its patents and how innovative IBM is. Much advertising at no cost (given that the donation pays for itself, see below).
    It is PR because a lot of free software users think well of a company that is apparently doing its best to support free software against the scourge of software patents. But how many of these do know that IBM has been and still is at the forefront of political lobbying for more software patents in the world?

    Making free software depend on IBM patents, and making the defense of free software against lawsuits depend on IBM willingness to assert those patents against whoever would sue free software developpers or users (see the IBM pledge : http://www.ibm.com/ibm/licensing/patents/pledgedpa tents.pdf) gives IBM a lot of leverage on whatever happens with free software.

    Furthermore, free software has been able to compete successfully with Microsoft, and to contain to some extent Microsoft software power, a thing no corporation was able to do, including IBM.

    From an economic perspective, when two economic activities are complementary, and actually done by different corporations, each business sector will try to commoditize the neighboring business so that more money and profit remain available for its own activity. Commoditization of complementary business is also a way to reduce its control, and to be freer ans more secure when it comes to managing a business strategy.
    This is the case for software vs services, or for hardware vs software. IBM business is mostly based on hardware and services, and software publishing is only a minor part. But software stand between the two main business activities of IBM, and gives too much leverage to whoever controls software publishing, not to mention the profit. Supporting free software is a way of commoditizing software, and thus leave more control space and profit for IBM. If in addition it gives IBM some control over basic software (especially the operating system), all the better.

    So it is IBM best interest to actually get software patents and the control that goes with them, and to make some of those patents available to free software developement.
    But, mind you, it is certainly not a gift or a donation. Just good business strategy.

  49. Brand name by phorm · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've found that Sony in general is milking a brand-name... but that cow is beginning to run dry. I haven't seen many sony products that - were they even the same price of their competitors (they're more) - I would buy on a quality basis. They make a lot of stuff that might be considered trendy. Asian students here especially seem to think Vaio is the shiznat, though really the last few of those I saw died sooner and generally sucked more than competitors (no, I'm not racist, my gf is Chinese and between her and her friends I've had my work convincing them that Sony != good).

    On the other hand, I won't say I know too much about Matsushita, but I haven't done too badly by their Panasonic division.

  50. Patenting on other people's software? by phorm · · Score: 1

    I've often wondered about this. This trick I suppose would work well on a Linux box... but IBM doesn't own linux. Can you put a patent on doing something a particular way with a product you don't have ownership over?

    If a hack a certain device (say find something really cool to do with a cellphone/PDA/etc that the creators hadn't planned for it), can I patent that even though I didn't make the original device?

    Not that I have such a patent, but I've often wondered if this happens.

    1. Re:Patenting on other people's software? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can certainly patent it. If it's not covered by another patent then you can do it yourself.

      You might not be able to make, use, or sell your patent if doing so will infringe on the original one though.

      This is all from IP Law classes and knowing a lot of IP lawyers and professors but IANAL.

    2. Re:Patenting on other people's software? by Znork · · Score: 1

      Yes, indeed you can. In fact, you can even patent things that someone else has already patented. See for example the LZW patent held by both IBM and Unisys.

      You only have to dodge the patent examiner finding something he think is the same thing in the hours he's alotted to examining your patent.

      Once you're done you have your own government granted monopoly, ripe for legal extortion. Someone could probably get your patent overturned, but as it will probably be cheaper to give you money than fight the patent that wont be much of a bother for you.

  51. Sign of the times by gone_bush · · Score: 1

    Patent or Perish

    --
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one less travelled by. (Robert Frost, 1916)
  52. Different thoughts on patents by phorm · · Score: 1

    If anything, I think that this article shows IBM's donation of 500 patents as a drop in the barrel (though a nice gesture nonetheless). However I do remember that there can be 2 reasons for patenting something:

    a) Personal profit based on royalties, etc (or preventing a competitor from reproductions)

    b) Not having a competitor patent something. You don't personally have to enforce the patent against somebody... but in the end it's a useful trump card (if somebody applies their own patents against you, you can play yours back) as well as a nice way to reward your allies (if you hold the patent and share, somebody else can't sue your friends over them either).

    1. Re:Different thoughts on patents by Tower · · Score: 1

      Right, you can patent something you are working on to protect yourself and prevent someone else from doing it (rather common), you can patent something you would have liked to do (if you had more time) so nobody else patents it, and then you can do it later, or you can patent it with no thought of actually doing it, but if somebody else wants to do it, they have to come to you for the rights (or you can just deny them, but then they usually get around it and you end up with no money).

      The big companies use them for leverage as well as income - the tech companies often "swap" patent licenses - I'll let you use 100 of mine if we can use 100 of yours (written up slightly different after the lawyers, of course). Creating your own useful patents can mean you don't have to pay someone else to use theirs. Innovation can still happen...

      --
      "It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
  53. neglected patents by biryokumaru · · Score: 1
    colleges produce more patents than IBM every year.

    and patents arent a bad thing.

    in the hands of the ex-college kids, they are exclusive patents, to which only they have the rights (or the company they sell the patent to). IBM on the other hand tends to have those patents where its like "isn't this a neat idea? give it a shot!"

    usually im more coherent, i just got off cs:s after playing fer like 6-7 hours, lol

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
  54. Patent crazy by ZeroReality · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They don't have 3128 good idea. What typical happen in tec. company is patent everything and see what pan out.

  55. (IBM == M$) && (SW == HW) ? by PurpleXanathar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IBM and Microsoft can be equally as evil really. There is no difference on who receives a patent.

    Now IBM politics are in favour of free sw just because IBM is now making money out of Linux and Microsoft is losing money because of it.
    Whenever it will be the other way around, we'll be all here crying for the evilness of IBM and how M$ could save us all. Really think about what could've happened if OS2 was the winner and Windows the loser.
    Probably what now seems so absurd could have been reality.

    Patents are evil, whoever receives them. And they are evil both for free sw and for proprietary one. And they are evil both for sw as for hw.

    We feel sw patents being more evil just because of the peculiar qualities of sw (being a product with almost no additional costs other than those of the creation of the first prototype), but really hw patents are as evil and sometimes as stupid.
    Check behind your Nokia phone, the Sim retention mechanism. Do you really feel that thing needs a patent ? Do you think its mechanic is so smarter to be granted a patent ? Do you feel that patent is much better than the "single click" Amazon patent ? [Don't know if it has been granted the patent and if it's still that kind of mechanism, the last Nokia I had was the 5110 and had two pieces of plastic with the simplest mechanic of this world patent pending]

    I think we, as a society, should reconsider the whole patent system. It's effectiveness is changed in its 200 years of life, and its dangers too. Patents were meant to protect IP and R&D investiments, now it's becoming a mean to convert ideas into money without the risks involved in production.

    Long post sorry :)

    1. Re:(IBM == M$) && (SW == HW) ? by nostromo.operator · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      They be equally evil now, but IBM gets an evil bonus modifyer by working for the NAZI party.

  56. 18th century... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..English has some different semantics than what's current. In a time before the modern corporate charter had been invented, an author-individual would just be called an author. Likewise for inventors.

    Put in question form: Why would you never see anything like "King John I" imprinted on a coin?

  57. Re:320,000 employees. That's how. by CortoMaltese · · Score: 0
    You get a lot of smart people, ask that they publish, and watch what happens.

    Contributing to the industry by publishing also deserves appreciation as opposed to a lot of companies that want to keep most of their R&D company confidential.

  58. Bulk discount? by Blowfishie · · Score: 1
    The filing fee for a patent is between US$370 and USD$1,000. Add patent attorney fees onto that and the cost soon mounts up (more here).

    At between 9 and 10 patents per day, does anyone know if IBM gets a bulk discount on its fees?

  59. Parent is not "funny" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure why the parent has been modded funny. Every year IBM cracks the patent whip demanding tech employees to find something, *anything* that might be patentable - they've got so much invested in being "first-in-patents" that they can't bear to ever come in second place. So they try patenting lots of bullshit - well aware that the Patent Office is broken when it comes to software. It's depressing and embarrassing.

  60. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by pafrusurewa · · Score: 1

    However, have you noticed that in the above post, the pertinant linkage did not go to prostoalex's site? That's the difference.

    It does. Do a whois on itfacts.biz.

  61. Ahem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a message board for whining about Microsoft. Please do not attempt to divert our attention. Thank you.

  62. yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    coz den we could find out who is teh evil

  63. Big Blue Is Not Evil! by Jahz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems /.ers associate the word "patent" with evil. Any company enforcing their patent rights is automatically evil. Well that is just a load of crap. It is true that the patent office needs to completely rethink its patent granting procedure, but without patents the global bussiness model breaks down and we all lose our jobs! That being said...

    In many way's IBM is a thinktank. They spend alot of money in researd and development of new technologies. For crying out loud, the PC owes much of its success to IBM R&D.

    Why should other companies be allowed to use technologies and ideas that IBM spent time and money developing? Im sure you wouldnt like if I told your boss about an idea you had discussed with me, and passed it off as my own.

    IBM makes 650 Million USD on patent royalties annually. Nearly 200M of which comes from hardware manufacturers. Most companies happily pay IBM their royalties. Why? Because they make alot of money from selling technology using IBM-developed ideas. IBM usually charges 1%-5% of the products price as a royalty. Not bad, considering without the IBM patented technology, your product might not be marketable!

    Many other companies ($CO, for example), demand high royalties from small companies. IBM, on the other hand, supports open source and has yet to go after a non-profit or small company.

    One company IBM *IS* going after is Intuit. Who the hell cares? Does Intuit donate a percentage of its income to charity? Do they feed the hungry? NO! Intuit exists to make its CEO, stockholders and employee's money.

    Finally, another thing that /. readers dont seem to understand is that patents are not cheap. You need to pay an expensive patent attorney, and the application costs. In the end, a patent frequently costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Add to that the price of R&D and man-hours, and each patent can reprsent over 1M in corporate investment (or much much more).

    In conclusion, leave IBM alone until they try to patent the letter "A" or UNIX.

    --
    There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
    1. Re:Big Blue Is Not Evil! by PurpleXanathar · · Score: 1

      "supports open source" ...

      IBM will support open source as long as it will make money out of it. The difference between IBM and SCO is that IBM is making money out of the linux market, SCO is losing (and losing much). SCO is the only unix vendor to my knowledge which is not selling hardware. IBM, Sun, HP, and to some extent SGI, decided they could still make money out of hardware and custom software going the linux way. SCO is just losing. Sure they could lose with more style and sincerely what they are doing cannot be justified.

      What is wrong with patents is that you can issue a patent for pretty simple things (simple hardware pieces or simple software, or even concepts!), patents which could've been filed by any 10 y.o. teenager.

      I'm not bothered if a company patents a way to make electricity out still air, or a gigawonderful compression algorithm which is able to pack an mp3 in 1/4 of the space with no quality loss. I'm bothered if a company patents a simple mechanical object, a single click to buy on the internet or the concept of doubleclicking to activate an object or the way a circle can be draw on the screen.

      And the guilt is not of the companies who patent easy things, but of the patent system which allows this kind of behaviour.

    2. Re:Big Blue Is Not Evil! by Jahz · · Score: 1

      And the guilt is not of the companies who patent easy things, but of the patent system which allows this kind of behaviour.

      Right. Part of my point was that the USPTO needs to revise their methods. Actually I think I did say that.

      Also my last about patenting the letter "A," was in regards to simple patents. I dont think IBM makes many simple patents. Also, there is nothing wrong with IBM making money off of linux. Sure, they probably only support Open Source software because they see it as a profitable market, but who cares? The point is they support it and OS needs all the support it can get.

      --
      There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
    3. Re:Big Blue Is Not Evil! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Well, IBM is definitely a "Rembrandts in the Attic" sort of company, only moreso. For example, in 1999 one-ninth of IBM's pretax profits was from licensing. That sounds benign, what could be nicer than licensing patents?

      The trick is that IBM has a history of going after infringers, even if they're not infringing: it's just business. In the early 90's, during tougher economic times, IBM lawyers took a tour of Silicon Valley software companies, visiting a number of major companies in turn. They would come in, tell the company, "you're infringing seven of our patents", provide a list and tell the company IBM wanted a licensing deal. Some companies caved in and paid a few hundred thousand dollars or more to call off the laywers.

      I know of one company that fought: they went through each patent with their attorneys and made a strong case for each, showing no infringement. Faced with this information, IBM's response was simple: "Oh, so you don't infringe those patents. OK. Well, here are seven other patents we think you infringe. We have plenty of other patents we believe you might infringe." All quite legal, with the obvious implication of, "pay us licensing or expect to pay as much or more for lawyer fees, and maybe lose anyway."

      Over the past few years, instead of IBM it's been a few Japanese companies that have been coming around claiming infringement and demanding licensing fees. When times are tough, send out the lawyers to squeeze out some profits.

      I don't think IBM's evil (but nor are they a hero, don't fool yourselves), they're simply playing the game and trying to change, or at least keep in place, the rules favoring them.

      I'm posting as an anonymous coward since in my paranoia I don't really want to let anyone at IBM know what company I'm at; don't want to give them any ideas.

  64. Crazy Numbers by PurpleWizard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Estimated 30000 or so patents just for the top ten patenters.

    No small (or even large) concern can realistically claim to have not infringed a patent for anything modern and nominally (or more) complex.

    That to me is the biggest flaw to the system.

  65. Re:320,000 employees. That's how. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason some companies keep their R&D confidential is because they've often independantly invented something that another company has already patented. They're hoping that, if the details of their implementation can be kept secret, large patent holders won't get the idea to sue them.

    IBM doesn't file this many patents because they're such great innovators, but so that no other company would even dream of filing a patent suit against them. With the number if IBM patents, it's probably impossible to touch a computer without infringing on a dozen of them. We're lucky that their patent strategy is merely defensive.

  66. patent madness by happyfrogcow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yesterday I noticed that a simple plastic bag had been patented. I was looking at the bag to see find it's recycling logo, and there it was. Some patent number. Now, this wasn't a fancy ziplock or super-ultra freezer bag with teflon air foils or anything. This was your regular grocery store plastic bag. Not even one with holes for handles. Just a plastic bag.

    1. Re:patent madness by hacksoncode · · Score: 1
      It's probably the particular plastic material or the method for making the bag.

      What's your point?

  67. That quote is not real. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
  68. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by realdpk · · Score: 1

    Registered to registerfly.com?

    Well, anyways, if that whois stuff eventually traces back to the person (I don't see it here but maybe it does on some site) then that's not cool.

    On this note, sorta, I wonder why slashdot editors don't link the user's name to their slashdot URL (http://slashdot.org/~user) ?

  69. Re:Another Roland Piquepaille post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares where it links? One - The item was newsworthy and pretty well summarized in Slashdot submission, I didnt even click on the FA to read it. Two - No other news agency is reporting it, so even if you wanted to direct the readers to News.com or Wired or Register, you couldn't do it.

  70. BZZT! Wrong by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Jimmy Carter, 39th president. 1977-1981

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jc3 9. html

    Yes. Reagan was elected in Nov'80. You don't start the instant you are elected.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:BZZT! Wrong by NekSnappa · · Score: 0

      Yes but the parent comment was "after" 1980. Reagan was sworn in Jan 20 1981, so there wasn't much after '80 where Carter was in office.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    2. Re:BZZT! Wrong by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      What? I think you're grasping at straws.

      "After 1980(Carter Administration)", the year 1980 being under the Carter administration, but after 1980 I move onto talking about how federal contractors could deal with patents. I was establishing a time, not discussing what president was what president in what year.

      You may read that as "After the Carter Administration" and it still makes sense. If you read it as 1980 is when the carter administration started, well it's a free country. You can interpret anything I say any way you please, even if it doesn't even make sense.

      Please, if you're going to post a response, let it be about the main topic that was presented. Not about your misinterpretation of my English, because nobody on slashdot cares that you can't read.

      I would have hoped I'd would have got a reply like, "well I don't think it's fair that this is allowed, yadayadayada" or "so at least there was one useful thing that Carter did". Not, "I'm so bored I think I'll decide that Carter was president after 1980, even though it has nothing to do with anything".

      ps- Why is stating that Carter changed the how federal patents are handled is considered "[being] so harsh on one of the few men to sit in the Oval Office who wasn't a belly crawling scumbag." Are you some kind of Carter groupie who takes anything said about him that isn't high praise must be an unfounded criticism? What I'm doing now is criticism of you, what I did earlier was stating a fact in as politically neutral way as I could.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re:BZZT! Wrong by NekSnappa · · Score: 0

      I started to reply to this, but then decided it was pointless.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    4. Re:BZZT! Wrong by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I win

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  71. Users vs. Abusers by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

    Many of the companies listed (IBM, etc.) actually DO innovate, and use the patent system the way it was intended. IBM rarely tries to sue infringers of their patents out of existence - They (and MOST other companies) are smart enough to know that it's better to negotiate a reasonable licensing agreement.

    Unfortunately, it's the abusers that open up immediately with a lawsuit that give the system a bad name.

    A family member of mine worked for Lucent's intellectual property division. For them, it was considered to be a last resort to take a patent assertion to court. 99% of the time there was a behind-the-scenes licensing (often cross-licensing - "I let you use my patents, you let me use yours") agreements.

    Lucent has clearly gone downhill over the years. In the past, they most likely would have been on that list thanks to Bell Labs. Lucent/AT&T used to spend a LOT of money on R&D, including very forward-thinking basic research. Those expenditures brought us things like the transistor (which is generally considered to be an IP licensing success story - The transistor was licensed out VERY reasonably.)

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:Users vs. Abusers by Halo1 · · Score: 1
      Many of the companies listed (IBM, etc.) actually DO innovate,
      It's certainly true that IBM innovates.
      and use the patent system the way it was intended
      But this is at least an incomplete statement, unless you think the patent system was intended to get patents on case conversion using a lookup table (fwiw, that patent was not granted because it lacked novelty, but they did try to get it). You can find a couple more great patented (where the patents were granted) IBM inventions listed here, such as the ability for a web browser to have different user profiles with separate cookies.

      At least the software patents from IBM are generally not particularly better than anyone else's. And unless you consider "patent everything you can so you can afterwards extract licensing money from everyone else" (and apart from that use the patents you have to force everyone else to give you access to their patents, so their patents become worthless in so far competing with you is concerned) as the way the patent system was intended to work, IBM is definitely not (only) using it as intended.

      --
      Donate free food here
  72. Re:Wait everyone! IBM wins the top notch! by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Have you ever studied a software patent to see what knowledge was revealed or "made patent" by the patent?

    That was the original intent of the patent system, or at least the ostensible original intent. (I've gotten cynical about politics.) But the USPTO no longer adheres to that standard.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  73. Tell me by alexo · · Score: 1


    Now tell me again that patents are in place to protect the "little guy" from the big corporations.