Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Design Updates to MMOG Combat Systems

Posted by Zonk on from the we-come-in-peace-shoot-to-kill-shoot-to-kill dept.

In a nice bit of synchronicity, updates have been posted for the combat designs of two major Massive Games. A thread has been posted on the upcoming combat upgrade to Star Wars Galaxies, discussing design goals and opening up conversation to the game community. The initial post has been followed up by several other developer posts. Meanwhile, the folks at Blizzard have released the second part of their PvP Battlegrounds Preview. The new preview offers details on win conditions in the instanced areas and more information on PvP questing. As an aside, Blizzard is also offering 48 free hours to its customers because of the recent downtime problems.

28 of 37 comments (clear)

  1. bad url by Baikala · · Score: 2, Funny

    What's up with that "48 free hours" link? The url is completely wrong:
    http://slashdot.org/www.worldofwarcraft.com

    --
    16,777,216 comments ought to be enough for any forum!
    1. Re:bad url by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      Slashdot mangles URLs that don't have http:// prepended to them.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    2. Re:bad url by moonbender · · Score: 1

      No mangling of any kind is involved, neither by Slashdot/Slashcode nor by your browser. Zonk (initially) posted a relative URL by accident, instead of an absolute URL.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  2. WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by ShortedOut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Right now Alliance outnumbers Horde almost 2 - 1, and, in most cases, much more, on almost every server.

    Battlegrounds will only let X number of players in from each side at a time.

    This is an interesting method of population control, and balance, especially for those that don't want to wait in queues to fight pvp.

    Ironically, the company that invented "The Zerg" is working to elminate that tactic in PvP!

    1. Re:WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by ShortedOut · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, Overall stats show that there is a significant numbers advantage on the alliance side.

      http://www.wowcensus.com/overall_stats.php

      You can go to that website to get the official numbers there.

      I play on Argent Dawn:
      http://www.wowcensus.com/realm_stats.php?re alm=arg ent%20dawn

      Where there are 12,700 Alliance players and 5,400 Horde Players.

      I am welcoming instanced PvP combat.

      Also, if you know anyone that is thinking of coming to WoW, tell them to get on a low pop server. Prime time on Argent has a login queue of approx 250+ people with a 10+ minute wait some nights.

    2. Re:WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by prator · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can go to that website to get the official numbers there.

      Those numbers are in no way official. Blizzard has said that they are inaccurate. You can read one of their responses here (if the forums aren't hosed).

      -prator

    3. Re:WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by ShortedOut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Precice? No
      Accurate? Close
      Ballpark? Absolutely

      Thanks for the link! I thought it was Blizzard sponsored for some reason. :p

    4. Re:WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by Maserati · · Score: 1

      I have characters on two servers; Horde on Bonechewer and Alliance on Shadow Moon. Both are low pop (~7500 according to WOWcensus.com) and evenly matched between the two sides. Shadow Moon has been having problems, but anyone wanting to play Horde can message Khalgrim on Bonechewer for a guild invite (Blackhorn Tribe).

      I haven't seen a login queue on Bonechewer since a couple days after the game went live. it's always showing "Low Pop" in that lovely green shade whenever I look at a Realm list. We get a little item lag now and then, but usually only when other servers are crashing completely.

      Shadow Moon was recently moved to a new server 'cause it's been hitting Medium population lately, and there's about a 10-second lag when landing a gryphon in Storm Wind or Iron Forge. I've been leveling a human character so I've finally seen the issues everyone else is having with the servers.

      Bonechewer: Number of Alliance: 3,955 Number of Horde: 3,943
      Shadow Moon: Number of Alliance: 4,612 Number of Horde: 3,181

      hmm, SM's numbers shifted balance recently. Play Bonechewer.

      --
      Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
    5. Re:WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 1

      I also play on Argent Dawn. Small world, I suppose. Well, I'm on the Horde side, and while we may be outnumbered, I believe that at least many of /us/ are on the right server (Argent Dawn is a Blizzard-denoted RP server) unlike the endless hordes of "did you see the latest Ashlee Simpson video?" night elves.

      --
      MORTAR COMBAT!
    6. Re:WoW's Instanced Battlegrounds by will_die · · Score: 1

      If you read it more clearly, along with additional info since posted, the main battlegrounds will not be instanced.
      The main one which is persistant and gives bonuses to the currently winning side will be the one with the major queue. While you are twiddling your thumbs waiting you can enter the instanciated areas which will allow just plain PvP for the bonus the points gives your character.
      Or I could be wrong and then WoW would be so much dummer then DaOC, since the battlefields would just be meaningless and provide no additional capability to the winning side. Then atleast DaOC had the various keeps and areas you could take over.

  3. Upcoming? by Drunken_Jackass · · Score: 1

    I suppose these are the same upcoming revisions they proposed last January, which people are still waiting for. No thanks. I'm glad i got out when i did. They need to either fire the management staff or triple their developer staff. There's no excuse for how poorly managed this MMORPG is.

    --
    There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
    1. Re:Upcoming? by EngineeringMarvel · · Score: 1

      I believe your experience with MMORPGs is very limited by the looks of your comment. Just about every MMORPG that comes out has stability issues within the first 3-6 months. They don't need more man power because that doesn't help the issue. Buying better hardware is not the solution either since they probably have the top of the line equipment already

      Everybody has a budget, the trick is to use your resources efficiently. As the server loads go up, you have to manage a way to get your resources to work better together. That's why it takes so long sometimes. You can add and program in new hardware easy, but getting more out of what you already have takes some thinking and brain storming.

      Ask anyone who has playing in the early stages of ANY MMORPG and they will tell you that downtime is guaranteed. I personally play on Kargath and have had zero problems with connectivity and I have played everyday since mid December. If your having connection problems, simply create another character in a different server and have fun with that until your first choice server comes back online. For some people, that's too much though. Don't forget, Blizzard has already reimbursed everyone so no one payed for time they could not play with.

      --
      I couldn't think of anything witty to say, so...you're stuck with this.
    2. Re:Upcoming? by CdnShaggy · · Score: 1

      Hes Talking about SW Galaxies. I was playing through the summer and I understand what he means. It has nothing to do with server stuff. There is a huge combat imbalance. It started off slow. They end up nerfing all the classess because the other class is too strong. They proposed a great shift even before last January. Every month, the devs would point to the upcoming rebalance. In july one of them said that the balance was a myth. No work has been done, and that no-one knew what they were talking about. They also said that they would fix thigns after the new Jump TO Lightspeed was out (oct). So they were rudhing out an-add on (that you had to pay for), onto a beta-quality game (that was being payed for). Everyone was preatty pissed. even if there was no 'combat balance' there were so many thematic things that were never done. Darth Vader never left the area he was in. Same with Bobba. There was no real sense of things that they should be People suggested that the player professions should start in certain towns. You wanna be a smuggler/bounty hunter.. go to Mos Eisly "where all the scum and villany congregate' etc. etc. Tons of things along those lines. Not too mention Jedis. Lets not.

    3. Re:Upcoming? by EngineeringMarvel · · Score: 1

      I use to play SWG too, quit for all the reasons you just stated. It's amazing how fast that game got boring. You mean you didn't like 30 Jedis in every good PvP battle out there and that everyone was one of two classes? hehe.

      --
      I couldn't think of anything witty to say, so...you're stuck with this.
  4. Commander by Chimp_On_Stilts · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would love to see a Commander position implemented for the PVP Battlegrounds in WoW. I am referring to the top-down RTS style view that some other games (ie. Savage) have implemented allowing one person to coordinate the players below. I think this would be perfect for the Battlegrounds considering how disorganized the average players are when left to their own devices. Not to mention that, being Blizzard, I am sure they could get it right without too much difficulty. Does anyone agree that this would be incredible fun, or do you like your MMOs and RTSs separate?

    1. Re:Commander by ShortedOut · · Score: 1

      That is an interesting idea!

      So one person would be viewing sort of a world map...(The map of the battle grounds) and have everyone on their side with one colored blip, and the other side would have another colored blip.

      When a member of your team says something in chat, that blip would blink briefly. You could hover over that blip and it would tell you name/level/class.

      You can click on a blip and click somewhere else on the map, and the player would see a directional beacon appear on his mini map as a point he needs to go to.

      It could be done!

    2. Re:Commander by ReverendLoki · · Score: 1

      Has been done, in fact. For instance, the HL mod Natural Selection started doing this years ago, if I recall correctly.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    3. Re:Commander by Chi+Hsuan+Men · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The idea is a very good one; however, how might it be implemented? Is it truly feasible?

      The first problem you'll have is people arguing over who gets to be the commander. You can't necessarily just give it to the person with the highest level, as they don't necessarily make the best generals. I suppose the easiest resolution would be to institute a voting system; however, guilds could easily favor their leader instead of someone who is better qualified.

      Honestly, the only way I see this working is creating a complex karma system. Allow people to be leaders on a very small scale (parties) first and have them directing the actions of the party. After all, many people do this already, but they are not necessarily rewarded beyond that they can effectively pull, kill, and loot high-level MOBs.

      If the party believes the leader is competent, they can give them some sort of karma point that will increase their status and lead larger parties, eventually leading whole battleground armies (people with the highest rank get to lead).

      It's not perfect, and you have to consider some of the abuses (I don't have time to flesh out the system completely). The only problem is that it would be VERY difficult to deploy this system... ...and let's face it, Blizzard needs to focus on some of the other issues before it can go crazy with something like this.

      Like I said, it's a great idea, but from my perspective, at this point, I don't think it's possible. Hopefully Blizzard can get their shit together and truly revolutionize the MMORPG.

      --
      Respect It.
    4. Re:Commander by TychoCelchuuu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Whoever gets to the command place first? And if they're a moron, you can vote them off? That's how Natural Selection does it and it works just fine.

      --
      Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.
    5. Re:Commander by IronDiggy · · Score: 1

      It would be nice to see something similar to that but not quite RTS persay but more like a commander on the battlefield that fights along side the others and has special skills based on his class. I guess almost a whole new group leader class would be nice to see.

    6. Re:Commander by Jerrith · · Score: 1

      Agreed. That's what Savage did too, and even on 64 player games (32 vs 32) it worked out fine. And Savage is a game with anonymous people... Considering the reputation you're likely to build up, leveling to 60 in an MMO, I don't think it will be a problem...

    7. Re:Commander by EngineeringMarvel · · Score: 1

      I think a commander is not only cool, but necessary. Everyone in the instance wouldn't listen to the commander, but most would. A voting system with a karma system would work well. If a guild overloaded the battleground and voted in their buddy, then that's great. Mainly because that means a good portion of the team is ready to listen to what that commander has to say. I know I wouldn't have a problem listening to a commander who was just voted in by a big guild. Maybe put a time restriction on the vote. Meaning, you can't vote unless you have been fighting for 15 minutes and the like.

      In PlanetSide you had people with the ability to talk to everyone on their side. You would be surprised how many groups would listen to the head commanders. They simply ask everyone to attack a certain base, next thing you know you have tons of back-up helping you attack the base. That's not from coincidence :-)

      --
      I couldn't think of anything witty to say, so...you're stuck with this.
  5. The power of griping... by deemaunik · · Score: 1

    As an aside, Blizzard is also offering 48 free hours to its customers because of the recent downtime problems. This, after Penny Arcade takes away the title they gave WoW, and Slashdot gripes about it. Goes to show that if enough people bitch, they listen. Apparently.

    1. Re:The power of griping... by epicmatt · · Score: 1

      Dont be so sure it was due to the community gripes. Blizzard has been pretty free with handing out extra time lately due to the massive problems they've over the past two-three weeks. Alot of users still feel that 48 hours wasn't enough, considering the game was down or barely usable for almost 5 days, but at this point you take what you're given from them and like it. On a side note, it does seem that they have fixed things. I haven't noticed the massive lag problems that were occuring regularly, and the server queues have gotten smaller.

    2. Re:The power of griping... by IronDiggy · · Score: 1

      That and now that the server caps have been brought back down it takes me a good 2 hours just to get into the game. I usually get fed up after five minutes and go play something else.

    3. Re:The power of griping... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      What it really goes to show is that a lot of people will bitch regardless of what they do.

      To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't gone SOE's route and taken down the bitchfest otherwise known as the official forums. The signal-to-noise ratio is so small that scientific notation is a convenient way to write it down.

  6. Wow, 48 hours! by Asmor · · Score: 1

    Livejournal went down for a bit over 1 day, through no fault of their own (their host lost all power, including backup, and most of the downtime was spent restarting and getting up to speed with over 100 servers) and they gave all paid members 2 free weeks.

    That's class.

  7. Do it like Planetside ! by DrStrangeLug · · Score: 1

    I played the SWG:JTL (Jump To Lightspeed) 10 day demo, and frankly, didn't even make 10 day's. I tried the JTL bit, and it was amusing for an evening. I tried the walk around the planet bit, and couldn't believe what I saw.

    SWG is nothing more than 3D bolt-on to the old text muds, with some StarWars make-up on. You go off to fight the mob's and it's a simple turn based combat thing where you just select what move you want to do. Why couldn't they make it more like an FPS ? Walk out and shoot the Gorgs, or the Womprats or the whatevers like any FPS .

    The combat in Planetside http://www.planetside.com/Has exactly this type of combat. Yes, it has it's faults but's I'd really like to see this kind of game married to an economy and roleplaying experience like the starwars universe.

    If no-one else does it, one day I'll get fed up with waiting and do it myself.