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PC Competition for the Mac mini?
Omega1045 asks: "When Apple announced their Mac mini last week for US$499, it caught my eye. Wanting to buy/build a small PC for my already cramped breakfast bar, I started pricing out similar PC hardware. The results startled me. It was very difficult to price a PC as small (6.5" x 6.5" x 2") as the Mac mini with comparable equipment cheaper than the Mac mini. Indeed, most of the configurations I found were more than the humble $499 of the Mac, often much more. To match price I often had to configure with a much bigger shuttle-style case. What computers are currently on the market to compete with this? When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?" How long do you think it will take PC manufacturers to answer Apple's latest entry into the market?
How lond do you think it will take PC manufacturers to answer Apple's latest entry into the market?
If the Mini sells well, look for copies in less than a year; if it's not a big hit, the big guys (Dell, HP, et al) won't bother.
"It's a wonderful idea. But it doesn't work." -- Tad Danielewski
Also, I am wondering about the cost for local vendors trying to compete with the big guys. Can a local computer shop put one of these together to compete with the Mac? Even with a free (as in beer) OS?
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
It sort of sounds like selling at a lose and making it up in volume.
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
Me again... a fairer comparison is a cappacino EZ3
This combo is $1,042
Intel Pentium III @1.26 GHz
PC133 256MB RAM
40GB 4200RPM HD
Slot-loading DVD-CDR Combo drive
XP Pro
Intel integrated graphics
No montior or keyboard
PC people, no flame, but what makes this more expensive!?
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Actually, I thought of a better one. If you asked your wife to go to EBGames and pickup a copy of WoW for you, and she bought EQ2 instead, because that's what she wanted, you would probably be pissed.
It's the same thing in this situation. She asked for a Mac mini, but he doesn't like Macs, so he's trying to get her a PC instead. When he powers it up, she will be none too pleased.
My suspicion is that we will not see a "mini-killer" from the PC world for about six months to a year, if at all.
Apple thinks they are discovering a new market with the mini. If it turns out they are right, the Windows world will certainly rush to come up with something that reaches that market. Let's see what they could do:
The mini looks very similar to the eMac mobo, or possibly more like the G4 mobo with a single DIMM slot replacing the two SO-DIMM slots. The idea is, it's a laptop-class system in an ultra-small desktop box.
Now, Intel has been trying to find a way to compete with the lower heat and longer battery life of the iBook/Powerbook line for a long time, with very limited success, but they've recently gained a lot of traction with the new "Centrino" line of mobile processors.
Now suppose TI or Intel or some other company who has the capacity to do motherboard design comes out with a 5" x 5" Centrino mobo which uses standard-size memory.
They will probably use integrated video to save a few bucks, rather than patching on an ATI Mobility card the way Apple does, but nobody will care... this isn't a 1337 game system, it's an attempt at a mini killer. Integrated sound would also be likely.
It would probably support USB2 and VGA, and even hang on to PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports, but scrap the parallel port and all but one serial port. Since they preserved the PS/2 Bus, it would cost almost nothing to bundle a keyboard and two-button mouse with it.
It would probably work with a standard Targus laptop power supply, and probably ship with a generic version of the same thing.
Instead of the laptop drive, make it a half-inch taller and put in a full-sized ATA HD.
Total cost to buy one of these units from HP, eMachines, or some other low-end company would be $349 and include a default installation of Windows XP Home Edition.
The problem is, hard-core PC users will have spent the better part of a year convincing themselves that such a design is strictly for those gay-ass Mac-heads, and spend their money on a conventional tower system.
The lack of DVI would make it less suitable for the entertainment system (most of your better projectors and HDTV systems now support DVI inputs), and the lack of Firewire or 802.11g/Bluetooth antennas makes it actually harder to expand than the mini, which (let's face it) is not a particularly flexible machine by PC user standards.
If they are really smart, they will spend the extra money to preserve that other staple of PC laptops: The PCMCIA slot. This will present the opportunity to add Firewire, wireless networking, and a few other things which mini users will already be taking for granted.
But like I said, nothing like this is likely to happen until after the industry witnesses the Mac mini selling like hotcakes, and then they will need a couple months of R&D to react.
There's actually a chance that the mini will turn out to be the "Mac cube" of 2005, in which case nobody will bother to copy it, and after it's discontinued used minis will sell for above the original retail price on eBay, just because it will become such a curious novelty of days gone by.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Not much to learn, really. Replance CTRL for Command (Apple key) for most functions, and then you know what to do if coming from a Windows world. CMD+C = copy, CMD+V = paste, etc.
I got my first Mac in March of '04, and within a few hours of just fooling around, I was moving just as quickly as I do on Windows. Now, after using it lmost exclusively for the past 9 months, I do things much fater on it than I could on my Windows box.
It's seriously easy as hell to learn, and plug in a USB multi-button mouse and work like you do on Windows for most things (only thing I miss is clicking the scroll wheel and moving up or down to quickly scroll through documents and such). Other than that, the OS is a snap to use.
No problem. I've always had spelling problems. I learned to accept that over a decade ago. At least I can use capital letters. Those all lower case perfect spellers drive me to a rage.
My whole post I kept thinking I was wrong, but was only worried about saying loose. Little in English spelling makes any sense to me. I seem only to be able to memorize things I understand. If I understand it, I never forget (that drives people nuts).
For me spelling is a constant fight. I've learned lots of tricks over the years, so few people notice. Dyslexia sucks, but gives lots of cool advantages. It wasn't until grad school I met people who could dance with a computer as well as I can. I also met a computer geek who writes far better than I ever dream to.
your new twist on the whole loose/lose issue really made me splutter.
I'm afraid that's probably the best thing I've done all day.
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
Not only does it work for html text boxes, but for virtually all Cocoa text boxes.
Furthermore: it's a snap to switch to a different language (Cmd-shift-; and select the new language) in case you frequently use more than one.
And since this works for all Cocoa applications, you also get it in Mail applications, word processors, and even graphics packages (because the developers get it for free).
This completely ignores reuse of parts. I've built family and friends computers from their old computers and parts that I had collected from people who had PCs die and over my years. I've put together computers that would cost $500 for just a touch over $200.
Why? Because all I did was replace the parts that were needed. To the person I was doing it for, this was a completely new computer. For me, I have new parts for next time or making one for myself. It only takes a few hours to put things together and I don't have any of the operating system taxes or the such as overhead. That's not the only reason for me, but one that I don't think will be mentioned otherwise.
That's scary.
Looking at the ports, the designers seem to have had the media PC market in mind, though I've never tried to use it as such. It would probably make a nice MAME machine to sit under the TV.
Lasers Controlled Games!
An impressive move by Apple.
There is only one impressive thing about the Shuffle and the Mini-mac that highlights a new marketing move by Apple that might finally allow me to stop hating them - the price.
Apple has always dressed up average, underpowered personal computer components, slapped a white case around them, dropped a proprietary OS on them and sold them at three times the price to people who'll gladly pay three times the price for a computer because it's from Apple and it's "Blueberry" or whatever fruit flavour is popular.
I'd consider buying one of these newer, cheaper products because of the price and functionality. For a desktop PC I'd never own a Mac, simply because I'm a gamer, I need computational power and flexibility with my desktop (I want the choice between *nix and Windows, something an Apple can't provide). Not to mention the range of games available.
Having said that, I think Apple has screwed up with the Mac mini. All they had to do was add a TOSLINK/spdif audio out + s-video for the hi-fi enthusiasts and they would *KILL* the home theatre market. Modded X-box? No. Shuttle IPC? No. Micro-ATX? Nowhere near. It's so small it would run perfectly in a hifi stack, and with the CPU apple put in it, it's only good for video playback or web browsing or little functions like that. Unfortunately, there might not be enough CPU for on the fly video encoding, and it could use an imbedded HDTV tuner.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
Actually, most of these hacks only use the framework provided by Apple in a somewhat different manner. The windows mangager application was souped up in a couple of hours basically using functionality allready provided by the system. The main problem is when hacks are using undocumented functionality i nthe system. These tend to break when the system is upgraded but functions well in the version the were written for.
The main reason for all these hacks in in my opinion that Apple is quite restricitve in new functionality of the UI. It is allways simplicity before choice. Most users stay in tis environment and it makes it very easy for newcommers. People who want more functionality can choose to install the particular functionality they want. If one become very popluar, it tend to be included in the next OS revision.
that system is not just "ugly" (as if most Slashdotters would care), it's also bigger, louder, slower, and more expensive than the Mac mini.
Considerably so, if you attempt to match the specs (which you really can't, but still..)
I went to their web site,and selected the top processor (P3, 1.26 Ghz, which isn't really comparable to a PPC at similar clock rates), 256Megs of RAM, added a CD writer/DVD player drive, and a 40 gig disk, and Windows XP home edition, and I came up with a price of $988.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
From www.dictionary.com:
anymore (n-môr, -mr)
adv.
Any longer; at the present: Do they make this model anymore?
From now on: We promised not to quarrel anymore.
Chiefly Midland U.S. Nowadays.
Regional Note: In standard American English the word anymore is often found in negative sentences: They don't live here anymore. But anymore is widely used in regional American English in positive sentences with the meaning nowadays: We use a gas stove anymore (Oklahoma informant in DARE). Its use, which appears to be spreading, is centered in the South Midland and Midwestern states, as well as in the Western states that received settlers from those areas. The earliest recorded examples are from Northern Ireland, where the positive use of anymore still occurs.
my sig could kick your sig's arse...
Exactly. A lot of us geeks would rather express our geek sides by dicking around writing code and making our computers to *intersting* things -- not by shelling out bucks for the latest and greatest XYZ card to give me 64000 channel surround sound or whatever.
Personally, I feel great pleasure in optimizing my code. Just this morning I've got my robotics simulator ( in this case doing quadruped simulation, with many motors, sensors and whatnot, but it can simulate just about anything you can describe to it ) running at 100 Hz physics and 30 fps using less than 10% CPU -- on my meager 12" powerbook. Now, *that* is being a geek. Soon I'll be able to simulate swarms of robotic spiders, each with its own brain and with all with realistic physics. And all for fun.
I think a lot of people today mistake consumerism for geekery. A lot of people I hear being referred to as "experts" are really just people who know how to go to CompUSA or whatever and buy a card, stick it in, and run the windows installer for its driver. [sarcasm]Way to go. That's some HARD stuff. You must be really, really l33t[/sarcasm]
Rant over.
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