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PC Competition for the Mac mini?
Omega1045 asks: "When Apple announced their Mac mini last week for US$499, it caught my eye. Wanting to buy/build a small PC for my already cramped breakfast bar, I started pricing out similar PC hardware. The results startled me. It was very difficult to price a PC as small (6.5" x 6.5" x 2") as the Mac mini with comparable equipment cheaper than the Mac mini. Indeed, most of the configurations I found were more than the humble $499 of the Mac, often much more. To match price I often had to configure with a much bigger shuttle-style case. What computers are currently on the market to compete with this? When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?" How long do you think it will take PC manufacturers to answer Apple's latest entry into the market?
what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?
Nothing comes to mind that can do as much for that price, but I'm sure someone will post all the components that they got for some price you'll never be able to find. They won't account for the OS price, the time spend building the computer, or the lack of any warranty.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
None, and you can't.
You want something small and functional for your breakfast bar, right? Then just get the Mac Mini and be done with it. It'll play your music, browse the web, and read your email every bit as well as your Windows PC, so what's the problem? Are you planning to play Doom 3 over eggs and bacon?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?
You could just buy the Mac Mini. I know it seems silly, but this is exactly what Apple is hoping you'll do. For iLife, a BSD userland, and some other fun stuff, how can you resist? I know you can, thank you peanut gallery.
I tried pricing something similar a while ago -- look at OEM parts, and consider putting the whole thing into a cardboard box; you can do well with an Athlon 64, a couple hundred megs of memory, and a bulk HD. Size, however.. that's hard. MiniITX doesn't come cheap.
"When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead"
Why would you want a PC when a Mac can be had for that low price. What does the PC have that the Mac doesn't?
My comments may be crap...but they are my crap...and I am brave enough to stand by them...Never post as AC!
Are you actually saying you'd prefer buying a PC over the Mac mini?
As a long-time PC user who's wanted an OS X Mac for simply years, I must ask: Why?
but as a mac user, i wouldn't touch a PC even if it's $200 cheaper and smaller than mac mini for the simple reason it won't be running OS X.
Unless you have a lot of time on your hands and some crazy Mini-ITX skills you're not going to find anything like that for awhile.
Since the MacMini also has a video card that isn't integrated into the mother (logic) board. I have a feeling you're not going to find anything with the type of video processing power either. Decent video cards aren't very small these days.
Funny enough Safari comes with a built-in spell checker :)
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
I looked this up and it is a pretty awesome box for an embedded app. For someone who just wants a computer, I think it's probably not worth the hassle.
I get a total of $808 configured thus:
Pentium mobile at 650Mhz (the fastest they'll install for you)
PC133 256MB RAM
40GB 4200 RPM drive
Slot-loading combo drive
DOS-formatted drive (add $159 for XP Pro)
Integrated graphics, (no VRAM cited, so I assume this is shared.)
it does have PS/2 and serial ports, but only USB1.1. It includes a firewire.
I don't think this is the right machine for the application, and even though it is a much lesser machine than the Mini, it still is more expensive.
Cool box, just waiting for hacking, but not for the punters.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Every text field in a Cocoa application gets spell checking "for free". Text fields in forms are no exception.
when your wife asks for the "cute little mac" just get it for her, trying to force your sense of what a good computer is on her is a little selfish.
How would you feel if you asked for a nice BMW and she came home with a similar Toyota?
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
So, when asked "When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)", your suggestion is a box that's significantly larger and heavier and costs nearly 4x as much?
it is when it's the dominant parameter being used to make comparisons.
While you are typing into, well, pretty much anything, if you misspell a word a squiggly red line appears under the work and you can control click it to select an alternate spelling.
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
Come on I've built many computers and it usually takes less then an hour. Take on a few for pricing components/ Frys run for most of the people here it is a loss of $50 or so. As another poster already said it is fun and education. Worst case it costs a few more hours another 100 or so.
When it comes to a 1500+ mac (ie Tower) I can see this argument and it's hard to claim they spend THAT many hours. Now with the mini I don't see it....
so it's not really comparable, is it? windows costs money. linux takes time to install/configure.
then factor in iLife apps. and warranty.
how about dvi out?
What case with PSU are you using for your comparison?
Can you name a single man here on slashdot who wouldn't get hot @ the thought of his wife wanting to use a UNIX-based operating system?
Get her the Mac Mini and get the AppleCare stuff so you won't have to worry about a damn thing in the event terrorists strike. And when she asks for help, you put one arm around her to work the keyboard, reach around her to grab the mouse, and whisper in her ear, "Oh no, baby, Safari is so much better than IE. Let me show you..."
*cough*
[o]_O
Hubris. It's the same reason we can't stop and ask for directions.
No sig for you!!
What case are you basing this on?
Is it equivalent in size to the Mac Mini's?
It is a reliable PSU, right? Not some $10 taiwanese job that's going to blow out and fry your mobo in 6 months?
What processor and mobo?
Are they as fast as the Mac Mini's?
Does your hypothetical miniPC have a graphics card equivalent to the Mini's Radeon 9200, or is this some Intel Integrated piece of crap that leeches off of system RAM?
Why do you consider a system that's $26 cheaper than the Mini but includes neither an operating system nor software equivalent to the iLife suite to be comparable to the Mini?
And finally:
Who are you trying to kid?
Not only is it tough to find a PC with comparable hardware at a comparable size with a comparable price, but you've also got to factor in the software. The Mac Mini comes loaded with OS X, iLife, AppleWorks 6, Quicken 2005 and two games.
There's actually a lot of value there for $499. If you're able to find comparably sized hardware at a comparable price, I'd be very surprised if it came with anything more than the OS already installed.
Add Linux or Windows.
In either case you are still considerably short of what the Mac comes with in terms of software, and you didn't include a cost for Windows.
Jobs & co are already on record saying margins are similar to the eMac, and I can believe it, since the machine is actually priced quite similarly to an eMac without keyboard, mouse or monitor.
D
HP Recalls
Dell Recalls
Make sure never to buy from them either, since aparently a company admitting a problem and fixing it for free is too much for you to deal with. While your at it, make sure to sell any vehicle you own, as it is likely that company has also issued recall notices on some of their products. Next up, make sure to avoid the grocery stores. They have recall notices posted all the time too.
It goes without saying but everyone is forgetting:
It's the software stupid!
The Mac mini is bundles with:
- BSD OS that is VVF (virtually virus free)
- Quicken '05
- iTunes
- iPhoto
- iMovie
- iDVD (if you opt for the Super Drive option)
- Garage Band
- Safari
- iCal
- Mail.app
- Address Book
- iSync
Without the software, the hardware is just something to look at (in the case of the Mac mini) or hide (in the case of most PC cases).
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
People who say "I can build that for less" are either not bothering to account for their time...
If someone was doing this at work you would be correct. But last I checked I wasn't getting paid for stuff I do on my own time after I come home in the evenings. I am not getting paid for my time from six pm to eight am, so I'm in no way losing money by building something like this.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
The problem you run into shopping for Apple hardware isn't that the Apple
hardware is much more expensive than equivalent PC hardware -- it's generally
comparable. The problem is that there's an entire very important class of
system (namely, the expandable midrange system) that Apple never supplies.
Their low-end systems, such as the new Mini, but also the iMac, eMac, and
so on, all have pretty much zero capacity to be expanded, enhanced, or
upgraded. *Maybe* you can add another stick of RAM (but not two or three
more), and external peripherals, and that's just about it. If you want to
add another drive or two or replace the graphics card, you're fresh out.
For that kind of thing -- which is no problem with $400 PCs and is rather
important for anyone with even mild computer-geek tendencies -- you have to
go all the way to the PowerMac tower systems, which start at some thousand
and a half smackers. Granted, they're much higher-end than the $400 PC
and are probably worth what they cost, but that's small consolation if
you don't need all those extra GHz but do need the ability to add an extra
drive next year or an expansion card.
In other words, Apple has to-date never tried to sell anything in the niche
occupied by the Celeron-based mid-tower system.
But in the niches they *do* try to compete in, they generally are fairly
price competitive (all else being equal), and the new mini seems to be a
hit in that regard. To keep myself from buying one, I keep reminding
myself that four computers in my bedroom, three of which are turned on
pretty much all the time, is *enough*, darnit. Also, the one that's not
turned on most of the time is the one that's not x86-family, which is
probably not a coincidence (although, it's a bit on the old side as well
and doesn't have TCP/IP installed, so there are more reasons than just
architecture).
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
You're forgetting the time spent filling out rebate cards. If you're building a PC from scratch you're going to spend a week clipping barcodes.
Plus half of the rebates don't come through. Yes, Belkin, I'm talking about YOU. Bastards.
A geek is a geek is a geek is a hopeless non-empathic cheap bastard who doesn't know his luck.
Your wife ASKS you to buy A SPECIFIC COMPUTER. And you think that's a problem. You're going to go to all the trouble to buy her something "better" - read: not what SHE asks but what YOU want to buy.
Dude, you've got a problem, and it's not necessarily with computers.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
[Expandability] is no problem with $400 PCs and is rather
important for anyone with even mild computer-geek tendencies
Careful there, "computer-geek" is a pretty general word.
I make a living programming and I love to screw around with my computer, but I hate screwing around with hardware. I want a computer that Just Works so I can play with robots or writing a laser-pointer tracker or whatever I feel like doing this particular day of the week. I don't like fooling around with internal components and I don't like having to repair my OS. For this reason, I own a Mac.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Don't hassle dude. Just buy the Mac.
What is more sexy?? A BSD based Mac Mini with bash, a fast processor, iLife, DVI out to RCA, real video card and more at 5.5x5.5 or a Win Longhorn Bathroom edition 6.5x7.5 with no DVI??
Huh? Tell me! I mean really.
[flamethrower on]
How about sucking it up and getting her the Mac Mini? Afraid it won't integrate with your Windows XP Home network or something? Afraid you might like it better than your own machines? Afraid your wife might like it better than you? Get over it.
If she does ask for a Mac, and you buy her a PC instead, it really won't matter what size it is, because it'll be sleeping in the bed with her, while you're sleeping in the garage. Think about all the other times she asked for a diamond and you bought her a bigger CZ instead.
[/flamethrower off]
Do not touch -Willie