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No Money For Hubble Service Mission
starexplorer writes "SPACE.com is reporting that the White House has eliminated funding for servicing the Hubble Space Telescope from its 2006 budget request. After many options 1, 2 were explored, is this the death knell for Hubble?"
So if there isn't money for Hubble than auction it off as surplus - let free market pick it up if they want to.
All this discussion of saving the Hubble seems to ignore an obvious solution. Just launch a completely new, improved orbiting observatory. Hubble is nearing the end of its lifespan even if it is serviced. A replacement might not cost a lot more than a servicing mission and would involve zero risk.
Can't they just stop off on the way to mars?
Photos.
Bush: "We must further our ambitions in space"...or something like that anyways
Now I see this posted... Now admittedly 1 billion is a pretty big price to save Hubble (would probably be more practical just to send up a new one) but is there a newer one in the near Horizon even?
Politics and space mix badly...but then again what else is new...
...in bed
Crash it like they did the Mir...then I can put my blender up on EBay as set it for hundreds as "Hubble Debris".
Things like this will continue to happen so long as space use and exploration in general does not capture the public's fascination.
I'm an avid supporter of all things space-related (paying member of Planetary Society, etc) but I find most articles written about the Hubble telescope and space in general pretty boring. Until someone inspires the world with a lofty goal that will push technology or knowledge forward significantly, I think you can expect this type of stagnation or actual devolution.
I'm a big tall mofo.
*ring* *ring* "Hello, Energiya?" "It's the wealthy ingrates." "Huh? No, America not France." "We've got the 100 million, you want it in dollars or *heheh* euros?" "What!?! France bought all Soyuz missions for the next ten years?" "Go ask Chirac? Yeah, very funny."
Last time Taco Bell promised a free vouchers for everyone if MIR hits a floating target.
NASA, PLEASE, don't miss the bulls eye now! I want my free burrito!
It's too good a technology to waste.
And, no doubt, if we just leave it up there the Chinese and/or the EU will most certainly claim salvage rights and send up a repair crew.
The Chinese would claim it, if for no other reason than to make clear to the world what is becoming increasingly obvious: the USA lacks the desire (funds?) to maintain its status as a space faring nation and is being replaced by China as the space faring super power.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
He was right on the spot.
The current RNC admin spends $150+ billions on a crusade to conduct a democracy-for-oil campaign and caused the death of 1500 young soldiers, but can't spend $10 million on HST?
Come On !!! You, Mr.Moderator, are a f*ckin' Rep.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
The ESA would certainly be interested. The Chinese and Japanese might take an interest as well.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Significant research is very risky and rarely profitable--and never reliably profitable in the way that normal business investments are. Yes, there are enormous long-term benefits, but the current CEO will have cashed out all of his stock dividends a long time before major research produces any results. There is a fundamental mismatch between the long-term perspective of pure research and the short-term perspective of a business that will have to show its profit numbers to the SEC at the next quarter--at which time the investors will sell their shares if that company is "wasting too much money" on research.
America is becoming the land of the ignorant. Proud, boastful, even aggressive ignorance.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Turn it around and say that the President decided to spend one billion on some program that you don't personally have any interest in, and all of a sudden it would be "Why spend a billion on that when there is a war going on in Iraq?"
Stop using both sides of the same arguement to bitch about the war. You don't support the war -- We get it. This is about the Hubble, not foriegn policy.
After the Challenger disaster, plans to bring the Hubble back were dropped. Landing the shuttle with that much weight was found to be too risky.
After the Columbia accident, going to Hubble to repair it or deorbit it with a space shuttle was found to be too risky.
The Hubble was designed back when the shuttles were believed to be far more robust and expected to have a bit more carrying capacity. Going from the drawing board to a flight-worthy vehicle with a design that managed to be both revolutionary and out-of-date resulted in some difficult problems.
Eventually (as the Estes catalogs taught us in the late '60s) reusable is the way to go. But with the current state of engineering and finances, the Russians are doing a lot better with big, dumb, reliable, mass-produced single-use vehicles.
We desperately need a new space vehicle system that's safe, versitile, and cheap in terms of the cost of kg. to orbit. The new system is doable engineering wise, but probably dead politically.
This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
University of Arizona is building the Large Binocular Telescope [http://medusa.as.arizona.edu/lbtwww/], with with a pair of mirrors each 8.4 meters (25 feet) in diameter. The light gathering power and sharpness are both supposed to put Hubble to shame [ see http://www.nd.edu/~science/core/binocular/lbt_othe rtelescopes.shtml]
using adaptive optics to remove the atmospheric blurring. It's a lot cheaper than Hubble, and while being ground-based has limitations, having it on the ground will make it much easier to repair and upgrade.
Or, alternatively, count on Congress.
The President only requests money. Congress allocates is. They've overriden this president many times regarding NASA's budget. (The White House has tried to kill the New Horizons mission to Pluto on at least one occasion. Congress put the money back.)
This isn't the end of HST. That doesn't really depend on Bush, that depends on Congress.
No.
In the end, the bugetary decisions are up to Congress. They have the power to restore the Hubble funding to the budget.
In other words, this could just be a gambit to drum up support and funding from congress.
>>America is becoming the land of the ignorant. Proud, boastful, even aggressive ignorance.
>This is another bad generalization. America, assuming you mean the United States, is not an idealogical or even cultural monolith. The United States are a collection of individual states, each with a unique cultural, legal, and educational system.
Judging by your statement, I am quite sure you do not live in the United States. A collection of individual states with unique legal and education systems -- and unique cultures?
The truth is, religion spans wide across state borders. So does ignorance. When I drive from Pennsylvania into Maryland and Washington, D.C., I do not feel as though I am passing some geographical flux of cultures.
Similarly, the public schools in Florida work just like those found in Maine (although in Maine they work better). And if I wind up in court in Missouri, I have the same fundamental rights as I would in California.
You're absolutely wrong. The conservative culture of this country runs deep throughout. Right-wing ideology is sweeping the minds of Americans because it is packaged with better marketing than anything else.
It's the same kind of thinking that says Democrats don't go to church because they are Democrats. These sick perversions of ideology transcend at least a third of the country and the numbers are growing. In Chicago, you can go to a church on Sunday that only admits Republicans - or Democrats who are willing to consider changing parties.
Right-wing politics is in the roots of America now. It's not just another opinion. It's a religion in itself and it is indeed sweeping the United States, which is not so much a collection of states these days as it one giant creature that is currently trying to decide which side of the fork to walk down.
"Aggressive ignorance" is exactly what it is. It's the same thinking that makes it "unpatriotic" to disagree with the war in Iraq. That is aggressive ignorance.
Today in much of America, ignorance is just proof that you can stick to your guns. Being wrong is frowned upon - but STAYING wrong is a virtue somehow. And it is certainly proud and boastful - that's how it sells, because so many people don't think for themselves. They right the coattails of whoever seems to know where they're headed. It's how they win. It's how a blowjob is worth more national debate than the invasion of a sovereign nation. It's how finding no WMDs can be a footnote to the fact that John Kerry once enjoyed windsailing.
And it's why I feel so sad to be an American -- and even sadder that I just said that -- because I do love what this country can be, if not what it always is.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Bush wants the US to push towards mars (or at least that's what he claims to want).
But in the process, lets scrap perhaps the most successful space venture in human history.
Hubble has been the greatest achievement in NASA's history. Far from the high profile Moon Landing. but it's the better achievement:
1. Has made millions interested in space, and sciences through it's absolutely breathtaking images.
2. One of the greatest feats of engineering servicing that thing.
3. It's been reliable and usable for YEARS
IMHO it more than earned a repair, and an upgrade.
It's been NASA's true achievement. The mars rovers have been great, they did a lot. But nothing has outperformed like Hubble.
How about putting a PayPal donation button on their homepage?
(just kidding)
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Who mods this crap "interesting"??? How about "Off topic"?
I guess this lesson here is that it is better to have security under a tyrant that the opportunity to live free. Why are 80% of Iraqis planning to vote? If the situation were truly so terrible, how could that be true?
Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!
In case you hadn't hear, we already won that war, and currently we're having a great deal of success with our peacekeeping efforts. In fact, there's going to be free elections in Iraq in less than two weeks.
Maybe you were thinking of the cost of the upcoming war with Iran, but I have it on good authority that it's going to be a cake walk, and our soldiers will be greeted as liberators.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Too late, however. Karl Rove (using Dubya) has already harnessed too much hate power for America to survive.
Not too late. The pendulum swings back and forth. The US was stuck in the same if not worse conservative ignorant situation in the late 50's - early 60's. Then the pendulum swung back with a vengeance. I think the same will happen again when people realize where the policies of the current administration are taking this country.
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
Lets work through this:
Judging by your statement, I am quite sure you do not live in the United States.
As for my credentials, I was born in South Dakota, I've lived in 3 states, I've vistied about 25 of them. I've managed to visit about 5 foreign nations from Europe to Asia. I'd like to think that makes me a pretty good judge of culture shifts.
When I drive from Pennsylvania into Maryland and Washington, D.C., I do not feel as though I am passing some geographical flux of cultures.
Drive from Virginia to North Dakota and listen to the accent of the gas station attendants. Look at the condition of the roads, houses, and the styles of public buildings or churches. The change is amazingly cool.
Similarly, the public schools in Florida work just like those found in Maine
How frequent are the private schools, and if they work the same, but Main's are better, are you saying the people in them are different? That would suggest a local culture.
And if I wind up in court in Missouri, I have the same fundamental rights as I would in California.
Not true. Each state has its own constitution and provides very different fundamental rights. For example, the Massachusents Constitution does not provide an express right to bear arms. The Constitution of South Dakota has always declared such right in detail. Or are you limiting your understanding of "fundamental rights" only to those expressed in the federal consitution?
Right-wing politics is in the roots of America now. It's not just another opinion. It's a religion in itself and it is indeed sweeping the United States, which is not so much a collection of states these days as it one giant creature that is currently trying to decide which side of the fork to walk down.
I live in North Dakota and I don't have cable TV. I haven't noticed much of a change.
Being wrong is frowned upon - but STAYING wrong is a virtue somehow. And it is certainly proud and boastful - that's how it sells, because so many people don't think for themselves.
You're right. I do recall President G.H.W.Bush state that he was signing a law prohibitng flag burning when he knew it to be unconstitutional. I still haven't figured out that one.
I also encounter folks all to often who will say without blinking, "I don't know anything about [Insert issue here], but I'm voting for this guy because he's out to help me."
I think, however, that this just illustrates that people in large groups tend to be stupid... whatever their culture.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
A few people have suggested launching something very similar to HST, with the new instrumentation that was supposed to go up in servicing mission 4. One such proposal is the "Hubble Origins Probe"; they had a poster at the last American Astronomical Society meeting, the abstract of which you can read here.
..." (COS and WF3 are the Cosmic Origins Spectrograph and new Wide-Field Camera, respectively.)
That abstract begins, "A no-new-technology HST-class observatory with COS and WFC3 as its core instruments
There's also a brief article about this at New Scientist.
I'm not crazy about this idea, for a bunch of reasons, but it is under active investigation.
Hubble Origins Probe, a rebuild of Hubble with modern technology on a expendible launch, will cost only $750M - $1000 according to the following report.
http://www.pha.jhu.edu/groups/ astro/Colin%20HOP_final_noBudget.pdf
2. Name one so called "unpleasant truth" that Hubble has revealed. Heck name one "truth" that the Hubble project has persisted in revealing
Every single time Hubble images an object more than 5000 light years away, it PROVES that God did not create the universe 5000 years ago. There are arguments to support this, of course, but none of them form any basis in scripture. The most logical argument, of course, presented pretty much unanimously by Biblical Scholars, is that the absolute accuracy in the depiction of time-periods as documented in the Bible, has been lost to translation or antiquity (take your pick - since ancient Hebrew is, effectively a dead language, though it bears a striking resemblence to modern Hebrew - ancient Hebrew, particularly when dealing with numerical concepts that didn't exist in that time-period, is open for interpretation).
Thus proving Scriptural Inerrency false, Humanity benefits by eliminating the Fundamentalist Religious Forces that have held our race back with ignorance, bigotry, and endless conflict.
And the great thing is - we can all, as individuals, still Love God. If we want to. We just won't be compelled by scripture to hate and war with eachother anymore.
1. Name one discovery that Hubble has made that has benefited humanity or has the potential to in the next 300 hundred years.
By imaging worlds around other planets, Humanity may one day be compelled to try visiting one. Could this be beneficial? I dunno, ask the dead spirit of Christopher Columbus.
By gathering the data used to demonstrate universal expansion, we may one day solve the puzzle of so-called "dark matter" and it's relationship to gravity and expansion of the universe, which might lead to the technical mastery of the Gravitational Force itself. Mastery of the Gravitational Force would have astounding implications for all areas of transportation. To say the least.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.