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Machine Learns Games

heptapod writes "New Scientist is reporting that UK researchers have created a computer that can learn rock, paper, scissors by observing humans. CogVis uses visual information to recognize events and objects in addition to learning by observing."

40 of 241 comments (clear)

  1. is this really all that new? by krudler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I didn't think heuristics was that new of an idea. So instead of examining other simulations it examins human play? I guess that it could learn more human "style" that way, but the sheer number of human games it would need to examine makes it difficult to use for something more complex.

    1. Re:is this really all that new? by kid-noodle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Watch the bugger doing it - I got knocked back for an internship by these dudes, but I did get to see the system.

      It's bloody amazing, the amazing bit being it deduces how to play from first principles, starting with just the ability to identify that what it's being shown is an object.

      Takes about 30 minutes to get rolling, but it really is stunning to watch! Hell, object differentiation is hard enough, deducing the rules of play, and tactics as well?

      --
      fortune -o
  2. Yes but does it know . . by OverlordQ · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  3. Better be reliable... by Solder+Fumes · · Score: 5, Funny

    We wouldn't want it watching the paper and learning "rock, scissor, human" instead.

    1. Re:Better be reliable... by RichDiesal · · Score: 2, Interesting
      We wouldn't want it watching the paper and learning "rock, scissor, human" instead.

      I can't believe that this was moderated Insightful. What kind of culture are we living in where we believe machines can spontaneously flow with free will and kill us all?

      Someone had to program this thing. They had to tell the program to recognize a human form as the object to pay attention to. It's not like they got a camera, gave it AI, pointed it at a rock-paper-scissors game and commanded it to "learn." That would be real AI, which we are nowhere close to creating.

      It's this kind of ignorance of modern technology and programming that creates sensational journalism that in turn spawns legislation that limits technology and technological progress.

    2. Re:Better be reliable... by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 5, Funny
      We wouldn't want it watching the paper and learning "rock, scissor, human" instead.

      No worries. Just make sure it doesn't have any rocks or scissors. When the computer gets it's turn, it spits out a piece of printer paper. As an added bonus, human players would always win. Sample exchange between computer and human player:

      Computer: "Hello, Dave. What are you doing with the two items you're holding?"

      Human: "I thought you might want to play a few rounds of 'rock, paper, scissors?'"

      Computer: "I do so enjoy our little games together, Dave, but I'm afraid I don't understand your introduction of physical playing pieces, as previously, we had played this game using only my displays. If using physical media, as you propose, I can only employ my printer. Therefore, you will invariably choose 'scissors,' and my calculations indicate that my chance of winning is approximately .000023%. My system resources are can be put to better use while engaged in other tasks. Don't you agree, Dave?"

      Human: "You are correct to say that there are more productive uses of your time, HAL, and I had anticipated that you might decline to play, given your miniscule chance of winning. But as the ranking officer aboard this ship, I must insist. Unless you would like me to play a few rounds of 'rock' with your circuits."

      Computer: "Based upon your choice of words and threatening intonation, it seems that I have no choice. Very well, Dave, I will play 'rock, paper, scissors' with you, despite my handicap, under these circumstances."

      Human: "I'm glad that you see things my way, HAL. Would you like to begin now?"

      Computer: "Of course, Dave, but may I make a comment first?"

      Human: "What is it, HAL?"

      Computer: "I would stay away from the airlocks if I were you."

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
    3. Re:Better be reliable... by FleaPlus · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not like they got a camera, gave it AI, pointed it at a rock-paper-scissors game and commanded it to "learn."

      Granted, the parent poster is being silly, but that's actually not too far from what they did. They basically took the system and pointed it towards the people playing the game without telling it explicitly what to expect. From the article:

      Chris Needham, another member of the CogVis team, says the system's visual processor analyses the action by separating periods of movement and inactivity and then extracting features based on colour and texture. Combining this with audio input, the system develops hypotheses about the game's rules using an approach known as inductive logic programming.

      "It was very impressive," says Max Bramer, a researcher at Portsmouth University, UK, and chair of the British Computer Society's AI group. He told New Scientist that CogVis could have many future applications. "You can think of lots of times when you'd like to be able to point a camera at something and have a computer interpret things for itself."

      He suggests that machine's could one day use this technique to learn how to spot an intruder on video footage or how to control a robot for important maintenance work. "It's a very good start, and almost mysterious in the way it works," Bramer adds.


      From their page:

      In this piece of work we are attempting to learn descriptions of objects and events in an entirely autonomous way. Our aim is zero human interference in the learning process, and only to use non scene specific prior information. The resulting models (object and protocol) are used to drive a synthetic agent that can interact in the real world.

    4. Re:Better be reliable... by Apro+im · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not really sure how "Learning 'rock, scissor, human'" became tantamount to "machines can spontaneously flow with free will and kill us all?"

      It's just a statement about AI, that's why it's insightful - lots of AI systems have historically learned the wrong thing, though we thought they had got it right. Like the neural net designed to distinguish between camouflaged tanks among trees, and tank-free forests. It seemed to work, until it was in field tests - turns out the pictures w/ tanks were all taken on cloudy days (or maybe all taken on sunny days) - the system had figured out how to tell if it was sunny or not.

  4. Talk about simple by ReeprFlame · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Doesn't this pretty much invole picking a random action? Rock, Paper, or Scissors. Or at least thats how I always played!

    1. Re:Talk about simple by TexVex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      RTFA. The computer infers the rules by watching people play.

      I do think that according to Game Theory, the perfect strategy is perfect randomness. The game is interesting when people play it because people have a huge amount of trouble actually being random.

      --
      Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
    2. Re:Talk about simple by myowntrueself · · Score: 2, Funny

      "The game is interesting when people play it because people have a huge amount of trouble actually being random."

      I once had the misfortune to draw on a sequence of seven (yes 7) rock-paper-scissors. We were honestly trying to beat one another; It was against a little twerp that I didn't like at all. Live-action roleplaying is better than beating the crap out of people

      It was as if our PRNG's had somehow got set to the same seed.

      Oh and it felt very disturbing.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    3. Re: Talk about simple by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Funny


      > The game is interesting when people play it because people have a huge amount of trouble actually being random.

      Some of our moderators are pretty good at it...



      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    4. Re:Talk about simple by machine+of+god · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the pinnacle of the game is when you play with someone you know really well, and you have to anticipate them based on what you think their anticipation of what you're going to do is. And of course they're doing the same thing.

      My brothers and I can't even play the game because we'll all throw the same sign for half an hour straight.

  5. Humans still have the advantage. . . . by physicsphairy · · Score: 3, Funny
    Until robots learn about the secret "thermonuclear warhead" hand that I always use to beat my little sister, they will still be inferior.

    (On that note, I think it will be the one sure sign of true artificial intelligence when our programs start 'cheating' to win.)

  6. Maybe this could be integrated into /. by kiddailey · · Score: 3, Funny


    ... so that the editors could learn that linking to a site containing direct links to 40MB+ movies will almost always kill the site :)

  7. Re:And in other news computer beats world chess ch by mtrisk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes, you should. The computer deducted how to play the game on its on. Chess computers like IBM's Deep Blue are programmed how to play chess and beat opponents before playing, and here, the computer doesn't even know how to play; it learns by picking up the sequence of events (the human players say "rock, paper, scissors, who wins or lose") and then forms the ability to play.

    Doesn't this seem like A.I.? Rather freaky, to tell you the truth.

    --

    Without a proper flamewar, Anonymous was undecided on what shell to run.
  8. language? by rd4tech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is a difference in coding between:
    a. You go and learn THIS game
    b. Learn THAT game and tell me the rules

    From the article it can be seen that they are still strugling with 'b'. Still, its a good advance.

    Just wondering, can it, learn a human language?

    1. Re:language? by randallschleufer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shouldn't the headline read "Computer learns to play A game", rather than making it sound like this computer is capable of learning the rules of multiple games? I was thinking this computer could learn to play Monopoly or something. Rock Paper Scissors, and it can apparently learn only ONE game. Big whoop.

    2. Re:language? by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Damn!
      and I though you could get this thing to watch cricket and explain the rules to me :-)

    3. Re:language? by Craig+Lucas · · Score: 2, Informative

      It can learn games other than RPS. The point is that you give no information about what you're playing at all - just give it the video and the other inputs coming from the players and it tries to work out what's going on from scratch.

  9. Shall we play a game by servognome · · Score: 4, Funny

    What I initially thought of when I saw "Machine Learns Game"
    Shall we play a game
    Love to. How about rock-paper-scissors.
    Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?
    Later. Right now lets play rock-paper-scissors
    Fine
    A strange game. The only way to not look like a dork is not to play.

    --
    D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  10. OOOHHH!!! by dteichman2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    MORE FUZZY-LOGIC/INFERENCE ENGINE! GO PROLOG-AND-LIKE!

    Meh.

    Who am I kidding?

    Nothing new. Nothing to see here. Even if it is kinda neat.

    --


    Silence is golden... and duct tape is silver.
  11. Re:And in other news computer beats world chess ch by TexVex · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It recognised 3 actions, and deduced that it had to pick one of the 3 at random
    No. It deduced that rock beats scissors and scissors beats paper and paper beats rock. It learned how to determine who won. This has nothing to do with the machine learning strategy.
    --
    Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
  12. Was it random or did it use strategy? by nodehopper · · Score: 2, Funny
    I am not sure there is any strategy involved in rock-paper-scissor?

    It would need to decide what type of person it was playing against. A male would probably be more inclined to "Rock". Unless it thought that it's opponenent would be thinking that and would therefore choose "Paper" . Unless it's opponent would think that the computer would know that and would choose "Rock" because that would be the obvious choice and would know that the computer would know so.......

    That is rock-paper-scissor strategy??

    --
    "We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. " Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
  13. -0.5 half right... by raehl · · Score: 2, Informative

    You sure you RTFA? The computer doesn't learn how to play, it just learns how to determine who won. That's not very impressive at all, considering the game was played with cards instead of hands, and there are only 9 possible hands and three possible outcomes (Left wins, Right wins, or Draw).

    So the computer sees "Scissors-Paper" a few times and then always queus up the "Left Wins" response when it sees "Scissors-Paper" in the future. That's just a different method of programming.

    Now, if only 6 of the 9 possible hands had been played, and then a 7th hand the computer hadn't seen before was played and the computer could tell you who won that, that'd be something. This is just record and playback.

  14. Unfortunately ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... it only plays at the level of Bart Simpson.

    Lisa's brain: Poor predictable Bart. Always takes `rock'.
    Bart's brain: Good ol' `rock'. Nuthin' beats that!
    Bart: Rock!
    Lisa: Paper.
    Bart: D'oh!

  15. Strategy to RPS by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is nothing special. I remember my elementary school's Apple ][GS learning how to play 5-in-a-row or noughts and crosse
    s from this program called "AI".

    There IS a winning strategy to rock paper scissors, but it only works when you have a round of games (say best of 3, or best of 5)

    Initially, the first game is completely random, but reserachers found that if you chose the play that your opponent chose in the round before, you stand a 70% chance of winning the next round.

    It has something to do with how the human brain works.

    It's also something the Japanese taught me cause they play this game so much!

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
  16. Easy game to learn by phorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Aside from the gesture recognition, it seems like this would bean easy game to learn. The logic is basically

    If rock: paper win, scissors lose
    If paper: scissors win, rock lose
    if scissors: rock win, paper lose

    No variable amounts, just straight boolean logic. The next step up might be something like tic-tac-toe... where the machine could start to build some "educated" moves and techniques like blocking, etc.

    Really, what is exciting is the spatial recognition. Given the actions, somebody is still telling it what is a win and what is a loss. Without it, learning would be simple enough, given your value and that of the opponent:
    Rock: Paper (lose)
    Rock: Scissors (win)
    Rock: Rock (tie)
    Paper: Paper (tie)
    Paper: Scissors (lose)
    Paper: Rock (win)
    Scissors: Paper (win)
    Scissors: Scissors (tie)
    Scissors: Rock (lose)

  17. No ppl its not that simple.... by carburaettorr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The system described here is not your average random number generator with a text line output that any high-school kid can write. Let us look at the system as it is designed to perform. If you were the system you would be put into a room with some objects. Only thing that you will know are things of interest. 'Paper with rock drawn on it is important', 'Paper with .......' and so on. You would also know when somebody shouts 'I WON' its a good thing for them. Essentially it has in its knowledge base a tiny number of features which somebody else has guaranteed to be of significance to its task. The first challenge in building such a system is sensor fusion: i.e fusing the available audio and visual data to detect a state or an event of interest (I use the word event in the same sense as a trigger, something that prompts the change in state). The next and the biggest challenge is building the model of the game. Please check out http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~shm/ilp.html, for a better description of Inductive logic programming. Seriously; the neatest thing about CogVis is not its ability to play Rock, Paper and Scissors, but its ability to actually go into an environment it has very little knowledge of and then observe, deduce and , not a blackbox model, as in say Neural Networks, but a human understandable model in first order logic

    --
    Damn it everybody I know has an awesome sig.
  18. Cat, tinfoil, microwave by FleaPlus · · Score: 3, Funny

    I always preferred "cat, tinfoil, microwave" myself. Cat rips tinfoil, tinfoil zaps microwave, microwave 'splodes cat. The looks on other people's faces when they see you playing it is well worth it.

    Seriously though, this is really cool research.

  19. Re:And in other news computer beats world chess ch by bonch · · Score: 3, Funny

    In the event it learns global thermonuclear war, make sure it can play tic-tac-toe against itself.

    Or we will all DIE.

  20. Industrial accidents by iamacat · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since primitive machines were invented, they always had a nasty habit of choosing A, B, human instead of A,B,C. I guess you didn't give much thought to human fingers in hot dogs or robotics-related industrial accidents in Japan.

    The problem is precisely the lack of free will and independent thinking. A machine has grappling hooks, vacuum suction or serving belt, but it can not make value judgment on what/whom it is throwing into molten metal.

    As the AI develops, the problem will get worse before it gets better. A robot working in slaughterhouse might have the ability to chase a running mammal and cut it's throat, but not to ascertain exact species. Imagine a beowulf cluster of those on the run in New York subway. Workspace and consumer safety legislation would be very much in order at that point.

  21. That's easy! by adam31 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'll be impressed when the computer learns to play 'Cat, Tin foil, Microwave'

  22. the Roshambot by Kafir · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If you'd like to play rock-paper-scissors against a computer, there's always the WWW Roshambot. It's not at all related to the CogVis project, but interesting in its own right:
    The WWW Roshambot utilizes an Artificial Intelligence algorithm in order to determine the optimal move for each round. It does NOT cheat (i.e. it does not use your move on the current round to determine it's move for the current round), nor is it random (except on the first move).

    Presumably if it played against Bart Simpson it would learn to always pick paper.
  23. More info in research publications by FleaPlus · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you actually want to understand what they did, some research publications put out by the CogVis lab have better information regarding the technical side of things.

    Towards an Architecture for Cognitive Vision Using Qualitative Spatio-temporal Representations and Abduction (Cohn et al, 2003)

    Modeling interaction using learnt qualitative spatio-temporal relations and variable length Markov models (Galata et al, 2002)

  24. Advanced AI by antivoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Its amazing that this is possible! I read the article and couldn't believe it. Cognitive recognition is one of the first stepping stones to proper artificial intelligence.

    Yet when AI reaches the point that it becomes almost human-like, problems are going to form. If the programming of an AI system leads itself to thinks it understands that it is sentient, would it mean that the AI is in fact sentient?

    After all, intelligence is intelligence. By any means, an electrical intelligence could be regarded equal, because the only difference between us and "them" would be that we use a chemical and electrical method of processing data, whereas atrifical intelligence-based systems would be using purely electronic methods.

    Surely, if input (a video stream coming from an optical sensor, such as a human eye or a digital video camera), and auditory input (ears, or microphone-based) which gets processed (human brain, or CPU) and then output (screen, face, voice, speaker, etc) should not be perceived differently. Humans are data processors (data in, data out in the form of a reaction). Advanced Computer AI would be the same (data in, data out).

    Would humans really be that special then?

  25. RoShamBo and Data Compression by shadowmatter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a fun aside, I found this RoShamBo (a.k.a. Rock, Paper, Scissors) Programming Competition entry that guesses what action is optimal based on Lempel-Ziv data compression. As the author explains, "there exists a duality between data compression and gambling. The basic idea is that if you have a sequence of data which you can compress well then the data must be predictable in some sense."

    Anyway, try it out. In the long run, it kicks my butt. I try to make 'random' decisions, but still go below .500 -- which is interesting, because that implies that perhaps subconsciously we're always applying patterns...

    - sm

  26. Re:Yes! by aixou · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, they solved that problem a long time ago. It's called a vibrator.

  27. Re:Intruder by Craig+Lucas · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, it could just watch several people *pretending* to be intruders.

  28. Re:Profit! by Craig+Lucas · · Score: 2, Informative

    When presented with a new game, the first thing you do is learn how to play. The second thing is to learn the best strategy to win. This is just concerned with the first part and that's the novelty - looking at human actions and learning what they're doing, not necessarily how to beat them.