Slashdot Mirror
Australia Gets 8Mbit/s Broadband now, 20Mbit Soon
danwarne writes "Whirlpool is reporting the 'bad old days' of slow, expensive broadband in Australia might be over, with the large ISP iiNet unveiling broadband internet up to 8Mbit/s, from $29/mth. It has been installing its own DSLAMs into the exchanges of Australia's incumbent telco, Telstra, which limits internet access speeds to a maximum of 1.5MBit/s. iiNet boss Michael Malone says as soon as the ADSL2+ standard is approved for use in Australia (which should be in a month or two), he intends to switch the DSLAMs over to offering 20Mbit/s speeds. It looks like Telstra and Optus, the two incumbent telcos in Australia might have their duopoly on high speed broadband (10Mbit/s cable internet) challenged, with potentially great ramifications for price competition in Australia. The only downside noted by Whirlpool readers is that iiNet is forcing customers to take their long distance phone service as well to get access to the 8Mbit/s speeds, a move which is ironically reminiscent of the tactics used by Telstra and Optus."
Too bad the caps are suitable for a 56k line though. :(
That might sound fine but in reality there is not enough bandwidth in the IINET network to handle even 100 of these connections at full speed let alone having thousands of users. The price per port for the IP ports (Oc12 or whatever) is still way to expensive to be able to cover the costs in any sort of reasonable time frame.
I just wish there'd be more of a focus on extending ADSL coverage across Australia. I mean seriously, how much longer must we be on prehistoric RIMs and the like?
Now why can't they have that available in the states...
Time Warner just switched us over to 5.0Mb/384Kb and I thought that was great. For $43US a month. Bah! Lucky Australians. When we do get ADSL2+ over here we'll be at the mercy of SBC for $40+ a month.
Wow, is this for real? Michael is gone from the list of Slashdot editors (here's a Google cache from this morning). And he doesn't seem to have posted anything today either.
Michael's departure, if true, would be the best thing to happen to Slashdot in a long time... and I've got two karma points to burn for saying so.
Anyone got the sordid details?
Most times I connect to overseas, and the latency/window size is the biggest speed issue. Even sitting on a 100Mb/s pipe to MCI at work you rarely see speeds above 2Mb/s to any site overseas especially if using TCP not UDP due to the latency issues and the nature of TCP windowing. OK so it might be fast to connect to other people on IInet, but thats the only bonus. Currently I have 6Mb/s ADSL to home in Australia (only one on my ISP with it from what I understand) and while I reach breakneck speeds to mirror.aarnet.edu.au on the Optus network to whom my ISP's primary provider is, I rarely see anything above 512kb/s to overseas sites. Going to just get unlimited 512k to the ISP I work for. No point getting any higher in Australia if your connecting to international stuff most of the time. And no its not because my ISPs are shit its just how it is being on the other side of the world. Fast to Singapore tho!
meridian at tha.net
All my folks back home are stuck on dial-up. The pricing is just not competitive enough to make them want to switch. They can get most of what they want done over dial up.
Local calls aren't timed either.
It has to happen eventually. My mother will go insane if my father keeps using her phone line for the PC.
------
halt
Whoops. I confused my laptop's terminal for the production mail server's.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
The phone system over here allows you to select which carrier you use on a per phone call basis by prefixing with any number with a 4 digit selctor code, eg 1411 for Telstra (I believe).
If iiNet force us to sign up and preselect to their long distance (i.e. you get carried by them by default) can't we just override on a per call setting?
If so, we can still use our preferred long distance carriers, while getting the benefit of 8M broadband...
This isn't even newsworthy yet.
It's available to such a small slice of the population with such small data allowances, only the truly stoned and miraculously wealthy will be in line for it.
Picture a pair of cans connected by a string hanging over a cesspool. That is the current Australian "Broadband" situation.
You just need to tweak your TCP/IP stack. For a 10MB/s transfer over 300ms latency you need a 3MB TCP buffer (window). Most operating systems don't allow the buffer to grow that large.
--
no sig for you. come back one year.
That's still strange though. While 1MBit upstream is nothing to sneeze at, I'm really curious as to the technical aspect of why we can't have 8MBit full duplex, or even half-duplex, but in each direction. Back in the day you could order 512MBit, and it came with 256Mbit upstream... which was reasonable, since they were offering the 512down/512up to buisness owners for roughly triple what the "home" upstream bandwidth cost, my guess being for website hosting reasons.
Nowadays it's cheaper to buy hosting at XYZ company for $100/yr and do it that way rather than host your own web site, and very rarely do buisness customers (I assume) go through their telco for webhosting, so it would make sense to no longer artifically restrict the bandwidth to home users.
moox. for a new generation.
8Mb is max based on distance, it drops to almost current ADSL speeds after a km or so. It has the same 4km reach as current ADSL, so for many people there is only a marginal speed gain, yawn, which still makes cable faster in most cases. Also at the mubpond was announced that Telstra was looking at equipment that will extend the reach of ADSL, potentialy to 12kms or more, and make ADSL viable in small towns etc.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
and use up your bandwidth limit for the month within 10 minutes of using the thing at full speed.
no, no it is not.
.iso in a few minutes.
it is 8Mbit/s.
No one in Australia is ever under the misaprehension that they have unlimited downloads, so they always look at both the speed and the download allowance, and therefore choose a plan that has the right combination of download size and speed.
Leechers are probably always better off with slower plans with larger allowances (and unlimited ones do exist at a lot of ISPs, but obviously cost a little more than capped ones), but the rest of us are quite happy to be able to download the occasional
We have better things to do with our time than spend all day, every day downloading DVDs we'll never watch.
40GB is more than enough for most mortal uses.
Complaining about caps simply DOES NOT APPLY to Australian broadband, because apart from the very early days when barely anyone used it and Telstra and Optus cable were the only way you were going to get it anyway, ISPs have always capped the plans, and always been very clear about the capping.
You Have got to be kidding me.. Overpriced broadband in the states? sorry, did I read that right? I have been paying around $70us a month for 1.5mbit adsl..
It's about time we get decent broadband, too bad its from some no name company that no one has ever heard of.
We've had telstra hindering our speeds for years, and we've been paying for it... iinet has worked around this by rolling out its own infrastructure. trust me, if you lived here or been following it a bit more closely you'd know how many australians envied the US... of course now we envy Hong Kong and Korea :)
No, there are no hidden download limits in any Australian ADSL plans (that I know of).
Instead there are upfront and well documented (sometimes part of the plan name itself) limits.
Usually fairly small too by North American Cable based broadband standards.
But we know they're there, they're not hidden, and you usually choose your plan based on the right combination of speed vs downloads for you.
Advanced users are users too!
There are various plans at various rates - one provider offers 512/128 for $70/month with no restrictions, not sure about the cost for higher peaks. I wouldn't look for any vast improvement over this sort of capped plan for at least another 5 years, and that's only assuming the standards don't improve the peak speed even further.
iiNet have spent $10M on installations, and only have customers numbering in the tens of thousands of dollars. They obviously can't give the service away, but the rates are still reasonable especially compared with the telco offerings. As I understand it, there are still per Mb costs from at least some of our international trunk providers too. Anyone who can refute that, or that has details?
I have just changed to the new plans and am getting about 7mbit connection. Loving the high speeds and the ability to download heaps and still surf the net without noticing.
There is also an error in the above summary
The only downside noted by Whirlpool readers is that iiNet is forcing customers to take their long distance phone service as well to get access to the 8Mbit/s speeds
iiNet are not forcing you to take their long distance phone service, you need to sign up with their complete phone service, not just long distance. My local calls and line rental charges are all through iiNet now, not just long distance.
(\(\
(^.^)
(")")
*This is the cute bunny virus, please copy this into your sig so it can spread
iiNet is the largest provider of ADSL behind Telstra and Optus, and soon to be the 3rd largest ISP overall. They don't do many TV ads I'll admit, but I don't know that "no one has ever heard of" is exactly accurate either :)
I was banned from iinet (WA) in 2000 - back when they were 'small time' - the reason: I asked them (politely) not to send me their monthly 'spam' advertising filled with added services and features they were offering. They responded that I was the 'only' one across the entire country that had a problem with this, and that I should just put up with it. Use the delete button.
I asked them once more not to send junk mail else I would go to the ombudsman. They did, so I fired off email to the ombudsman, got a few telephone calls from Perth, then Canberra, then Sydney - their spam STOPPED.
So did my account. I was suspended. After a telephone call I was told that I would never be able to connect with them again - I was a problem client apparantly. I was sent overseas so I never had the opportunity to make lots of money from it all.
Their service is actually quite good though! Or at least it was for me. Connected with iinet in Geraldton Western Australia. Never had any trouble other than that.
The only downside noted by Whirlpool readers is that iiNet is forcing customers to take their long distance phone service as well to get access to the 8Mbit/s speeds
I live in the USA. For an 8Mbit/s line, I would not only gladly accept having to use their LD, I would also turn over my liver and owe them some unspecified favor involving dead bodies.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The reason is that most ISP data centres run servers (lots of outbound, little inbound) and retail customers (lots of inbound, little outbound). This "evens out" bandwidth usage.
too bad all the cool stuff is on the other side of the big pond, and australia is connected to it over an ISDN line.
In case anyone wonder, and since we did not have a slashdot article to promote this (but i don't care anyway), the frenchies can get an ADSL2+ (20Mb/s max), unlimited phone calls (mobile call for .19 cents () a minute -charged by second from the 1st second-) and TV through ADSL (when your close enough of the DSLAM) for 30 a month.
Sure, the country is not as wide as Australia (people are more concentrated), and only half the population is covered (others can get a 512k. the providers should yet reach 80% of the population by the end of 2005), but the broadband is getting quite common here.
For those who wonder, i'm 5km from the DSLAM, got a 61dB loss on my line, and still get 1,5kb down and 1kb up (phone service running fine, but no Tv)
Much to learn, you have.
Let me tell you about telstra.
When I had my internet connection moved from another ISP to iiNet, they had to plug me into the iinet DSlam. Normally this would be a simple thing to do- just move the cable to the next rack and plug me back in.
Telstra, however, turns this into:
1: request disconnection
2. after a few days, tech goes out and unplugs me
3. Telstra sends a bill
4. Pay bill
5. request connection
6. after a few days, tech goes out and plugs me in
7. Pay bill
8. Line doesn't work. Turns out telstra fucked up
9. request telstra to fix it
10. wait a few days, tech goes out and fixes it
11. Telstra sends a bill
12. pay bill
well, you get the point.
Heck, I might as well burn some points as well:
Michael's departure, if true, would be the best thing to happen to Slashdot in a long time... and I've got two karma points to burn for saying so.
I've been reading slashdot for a few years, but have no preferences amongst the editors. I've never noticed anything negative about Michael.. However I have noticed the frequent "MICHAEL SUXX!" posts from a bunch of AC's.
Why do people dislike him so much?
Can someone please enlighten me?
www.6502asm.com - Code 6502 assembly or.. DIE!!
Here's a nice summary of michael's editorial failings. Also, don't miss this description of his general douchebaggery. His comment tacked onto the end of this story was probably the last straw; search the comments for "michael".
Does this mean that our aussie friends won't be able to complain anymore?
No more "you americans whine about your crappy broadband but here in australia, we won't get internet for another 30 years" ?
Thank god.
This page has some of the gory details:
"The ITU has approved a global industry standard for full-rate ADSL, known as G.992.1, or G.dmt. This specification calls for operation rates of up to 10 Mbps downstream and up to 768 kbps upstream when operating over telephone lines at distances of up to 18,000 feet."
So basically the specification for the signalling has allocated a slab of the frequencies to upload, and the rest to download. Your provider can mix and match within that, but I expect that due to signal attenuation and overall bandwidth demand they limit it to what is currently provided.
Symmetrical DSL (512/512) is designed to run over a shorter loop (so limited customer range), and as most users dont use much upload capacity there is little point in providing it generally - the users that do want it will pay for a service that delivers it.
"If everybody is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton
that comment was inflammatory and highly biased, and these comments just show up the partisan nature of the /. crowd nowadays - a crowd that is persuaded into thinking a certain way by the editors in the items they choose to accept, and the way they present them.
/. would attack them. If /. says the opposite, but equally poor reporting, then its acceptable.
/. editors may be editors and not journalists, but they force the direction this site goes in, and as we see, there are too many kiddies and 'me too' posters that give the usual knee-jerk posts in a way that is cozy, safe and un-thinking in the knowledge that they'll get karma points (read: accolation from their peers) and the sense of community from similarly mindless readers here.
;)
If Fox news (say) comes out with something equally as biased (eg. some company didn't get good support with open source, well what do you expect from a bunch of commie hippies who make it in their spare time) then
The
That's a bad place to be - like an isolated community who only respects each other, and their shared, insular values. If you want this site to be respected by others, especially people from the real world who might just use OSS for real business purposes, then you want to give a more thoughtful, even-handed feel to the posts here. Where accuracy of posts (and especially articles) are more important than simply knocking anything that isn't free or open, especially snide comments like Michael's (who is, after all, a 'leader' here and thus expected to show better qualities in his comments)
Anyway, that rant was brought to you by the words fairness and open-mindedness, and not bloody-minded arrogant knee-jerk post about a post that someone else posted that I disagreed with.