Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the that-sure-didn't-take-long dept.
pentae writes "BYODKM are featuring some of the first in line to serve up Mac mini accessories. Exactly how much market share will this buy Apple once the affordable, stylish Mac steals the Windows users who love their iPod?"
It is to my 80 year old Grandmother. I put a M$ wireless button mouse on her Mac figuring she would love not having the cord. Well accidentally right clicking all the time was reason enough for her to yell at me to give her back her one button mouse.
Reason enough!
Having an iPod with your PC is now just as easy to deal with as having it with your Mac.
maybe, but it's certainly not as 'cool' as having the whole shebang, and that's largely (for many people, at least) what having and using an iPod is about.
I think that this is the answer for those people who got an iPod and became people who love Apple products, but can't afford to really break into the company's line, and it's incredibly chic to boot.
Next time a person needs to go and get a new computer, they will consider spending $500 on a mediocre PC that is in a large and gaudy beige case and runs a pain-in-the-ass Windows operating system, or they could get a very small, fast, and attractive Mac that's as easy to use as the iPod they've come to love.
Pretty weak accessories
by
agent+dero
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· Score: 5, Interesting
These accessories I'd think can be useful, but not *that* useful. I mean, what is the point of the 'Mac Mini skirt?'
I'm really trying not to troll here, but I think worthwhile accessories would be to the tune of, a dock type thing, that has a built-in USB pro-audio card that looks kind of like this "Mini Skirt."
The Mini is already stylish enough, and I think the only merit of the two latter products is stylistic, if they expanded the usefullness and capacities of the Mini, then i'm all for it;).
-- Error 407 - No creative sig found
Re:Pretty weak accessories
by
nomadicGeek
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· Score: 4, Funny
what is the point of the 'Mac Mini skirt?'
You can hide your weed under it.
That "Grandstand" looks like a Mini oven
by
Dammital
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· Score: 4, Interesting
They've got a monitor pedestal that closely encloses the Mini. As densely packed as that Mac is, there is probably a reason that the case is made of aluminium. I'd be careful about insulating that box.
Don't count your chickens...
by
Faust7
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· Score: 4, Insightful
once the affordable, stylish mac steals the Windows users who love their iPod
Bit of an assumption there, isn't it?
True, this is the first Mac to be within an average joe's price range -- and the fact that it includes no keyboard, mouse, or monitor doesn't matter because it's aimed at potential switchers. Whip out the PC, slide in the Mac Mini.
All the conditions are there. But does the Mini offer enough to get people to climb out of their boxes of complacency and tolerance, and actually switch?
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
Whafro
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· Score: 5, Insightful
As far as I'm concerned, just because OS X is developed by a big corporation doesn't put it outside the sphere of *BSD. If you're using OS X, you haven't "left Linux/*BSD" forever.
Re:Computers, or fashion items?
by
remahl
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· Score: 5, Informative
Read the review from AnandTech. It is very comprehensive (18 pages!) and doesn't fail to point out the design features Apple put in to enhance the user experience. Nor does it fail to hilight the weak points of the design.
In my experience, it is very rarely "form over function" with Apple, it's function intersecting form.
Re:Computers, or fashion items?
by
drinkypoo
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· Score: 5, Interesting
As long as you put 512MB of ram in it, the mini should be capable of running anything your mom wants to run for the next few years. If you want to do video editing or something, well, the G4 can do it, but you'd be better off with a G5. Frankly no 1+ GHz computer is really a toy, ANY of them can run the office apps and such. To me, 1GHz was the line that had to be crossed to get decent performance. Sure, most of us said this kind of stuff when the 386DX came out - it's a 32 bit processor! blah blah blah! And of course, not all 1 gig chips are created equal, compare via to an athlon xp sometime, but I've never met a 1 gig chip that couldn't do everything the average user needed to do with a modern operating system slowing it down:)
-- "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Computers, or fashion items?
by
jxyama
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· Score: 4, Insightful
>is it much like the iPod, and just another fashion accessory with secondary consideration given to functions?
can you explain how iPod is "form over function"? i find it to be the most usable mp3 player out there. about the only thing i feel it's missing is a radio.
in any case, Mac mini - what you see is what you get. if you want expansion, then it's "form over function" for you and the machine will not serve you well. otherwise, it's as capable as any other desktops out there - it's got USB ports, firewire ports, DVI (VGA adapter included), Combo drive, etc. (i personally don't consider lack of p/s, parallel or serial ports "lack of function" as much as keeping the legacy ports. similarly for floppy disk.)
You just disagreed citing the fact that people don't have a Mac for their iPod, and that's precisely the reason why Apple made this.
If people wanted a hip music player that works with their computer, why wouldn't they want a hip computer as well? That's what this is, and it doesn't break the bank.
Re:I honestly think...
by
FLAGGR
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Except that'll never happen.
Imagine how much money they would make selling their OS for ~200$. Now imagine what they make now, even with their tiny market share, selling 3000$ minimum machines:) Apple would lose so much money moving the PC platform, its not even funny.
I picked up a Mac Mini Last Weekend but....
by
ttlgDaveh
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· Score: 5, Interesting
I wandered down to the Apple Store in London last Sunday and came back with the base Mac Mini and am extremely impressed with it, this being my first foray into the Mac world.
Anyway, having just looked at the accessories (Coral link as the original is/.ed) I wouldn't pick up any of them, they look a bit crap and the Grandstand appears to be the only one with any use and then only if you have very limited desk space.
From the story title I was hoping for something a bit morethan bent plastic/metal.
Re:Are people that stupid?
by
vena
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Then again, iPods are overpriced and under-featured and seem to have caught the public interest - so maybe people really are as stupid as Apple thinks they are
nobody wants 500 features in a walkman, they just want a friggen walkman.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
doon
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· Score: 4, Interesting
I've gotten rid of windows a long time about, and the Mac Mini, finally allowed me to get my wife off windows also. It wasn't for lack of trying, it was just that the pricetag made it ok (My wife is an accountant by day, artist by night). So the mac appealed to her artistic side, and didn't upset the accountant side. So with her pc scheduled to become another small server, we are down to 1 box @ home that has Windows on it, and that box dual boots FreeBSD 5.3 (where it spends most of its time).
As for it stealing Linux/*BSD users away. I can see this sort of happening. My primary workstation now is an 17" Al powerbook, It replaced a Dell Inspiron running slackware. I still use various forms of *nix everyday. My firewall @ home and my other laptop here are OpenBSD. My file server and workstation run FreeBSD (5.3 on workstation, 4-Stable on the file server). At work all 36 Servers run FreeBSD 4-Stable. So while it might not be on our desktops everyday, we still use it.
-- To E-mail me, replace the first period in my domain with an @
Better link.
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 5, Informative
they will consider spending $500 on a mediocre PC that is in a large and gaudy beige case
I think this is the first time I've ever seen beige referred to as gaudy.
-- It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
Mononoke
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· Score: 4, Insightful
A.) It may be cheap and sexy, but it's hard to find apps for.
Wrong.
B.) No Games. Sorry.
Wrong.
C.) Regardless of the low price, Apple has a huge hurdle to overcome with the general masses that they won't be missing out if they get it.
Possibly correct, but most people won't even get this far in your message.
-- NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Overpriced Keyboard
by
midifarm
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· Score: 4, Interesting
The overpriced Apple keyboard is a whopping $29! I know that may seem ourageous to those that buy $9.99 Best Buy specials, but I prefer a keyboard that doesn't feel like crap.
Peace
Re:Overpriced Keyboard
by
jxyama
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· Score: 5, Informative
it's got an USB hub built in too. a nice touch, esp. with the proliferation of keychain memories.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
Whafro
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Yeah, I know what you meant, but I don't see why it matters. OS X is based on free software, plays well with other free software (x11, etc), is relatively easy to use and has fewer "gotchas" than do Linux and *BSD.
This isn't like someone put a bash shell in windows and is calling it "Winix" or something... This is an OS that claims to have the best of both worlds--the availability of using open source and open standards while being accessible to even the newest of users. If you're a nerd who cares the way you seem to, you're still going to use Linux/*BSD, but I don't see how it hurts the community if you switch to OS X.
If I were someone who was a strong BSD proponent, I, for one, would welcome our rich, talented, and innovative overlords.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
evand
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· Score: 4, Informative
Since no apps that run on 9x\nt\xp\etc will run on Longhorn, I think Microsoft are going to really start to lose market share in everything.
Will my existing Win32 and.NET apps continue to run under Longhorn without modification?
The goal is that apps written against the documented Win32 APIs and the.NET Framework will absolutely run well without any modifications under Longhorn when it ships.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
daviddennis
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· Score: 4, Insightful
A closer reading of that FAQ answer would make me a bit alarmed if I were a Windows user.
They are saying that "the goal is", not that it will happen.
I could say today that my goal is to create a pig that flies over the moon, and that wouldn't make it happen, even if I were Microsoft.
I was a MacOS X early adopter (perhaps was is the wrong word; I use it on my primary computers to this day), and I still remember how MacOS 9 applications ran under MacOS X. That is to say, not all that well. Everyone who was running X, including myself, absolutely longed for native applications in the first year or so. After Photoshop and Final Cut Pro made it to X, pretty much all was bliss, but it took us a year of pain to get there.
If I had to guess, I'd assume that Win32/.net applications would have a similar trajectory of doom, and if there are significant differences between Win32 and Longhorn APIs, I'd be pretty alarmed by that paragraph if I was relying on non-Microsoft Windows software, or if I was developing same.
Microsoft might be counting on Office to hold people in the new environment. They'll build a version of Office for Longhorn with lots of spiffy features. The old Office won't work well on Longhorn. So someone buys a new computer with Longhorn (probably not compatible with XP), and they have to upgrade Office so they can run Word. This is just what Microsoft wants.
Microsoft has on its side the makers of commodity computers, and that's a powerful friend because many people like having interchangeable computers where nothing is particularly special but you can build interesting things out of components. I don't like that at all - I like my computers being special and unique, like Apple's - but I recognize much of the world loves it. I also think most of the world hates change and so really has to have a powerful jolt to switch.
Because of this, I think there's about a 10-15% ceiling on Apple's market share even if things go outstandingly well. Of course that would mean a 3-5 times improvement over the next few years. I think that's very doable, and I think some of the lovers of commodity computers might go for Linux as a commodity OS. That might mean there would be a world of 10-15% Apple, 10-15% Linux and the rest Microsoft.
I don't think Microsoft's majority of computers sold is in danger, but they're in deep danger of slipping significantly if they don't improve their products dramatically, even pre-Longhorn.
D
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
b1t+r0t
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Well, you know what I meant. I meant the "free" BSDs (not to be confused with FreeBSD).
Everything that's in BSD is also "free" in OS X. The non-free parts of OS X aren't in Darwin or BSD. There's no Quartz, Aqua, Quicktime, iTunes, etc. in BSD. You also don't get Apple's particular packaging of the OS for free either, but that doesn't stop anyone from making their own distro of Darwin/BSD.
Just because someone charges money for a distro that comes with non-free stuff doesn't make its core less free (as in speech). I don't hear people bitching about Red Hat Enterprise not being a "free" OS, especially now that the "free version of Red Hat" doesn't exist any more (yes, I know they renamed it, but there's more to it than that).
--
-- "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Re:I honestly think...
by
Jeff+DeMaagd
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· Score: 4, Insightful
IF they sold OSX for $200 for x86, it would fly off the shelf and pretty much be 99% profit.
But then people will complain they have to buy something that has the same functionality as what they got with the computer for free. And they'll complain that they can't use the exact same software as they did with their Windows system. I am serious.
There is a lot more to it than saying you can get 99% profit on an OS. Even Microsoft doesn't get that, I think their Windows division is a little over 80% profit. Remember, Microsoft operating systems are on about 90% of PCs.
Apple would have to start (nearly) from scratch to get native support for all devices on the main board of every x86 system, and make it easy to add support for nearly every other device out there, even if it was designed to be Windows-specific. In short, you'd have to sign on every device maker to make drivers. Darwin for x86 is being maintained and apparently does work but there is more to it than just putting the Aqua UI on it and shipping it.
Then people would expect OSX x86 to run all their Windows programs flawlessly. I'm not sure if the Linux Windows translation/emulation is up to that yet.
Re:Can we run C++ on a Mac
by
remahl
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· Score: 4, Informative
Of course you can run C++ on a Mac.
The compiler Apple ships with its IDE (Xcode) is gcc and it naturally supports C++. A lot of Mac software is written in C++ (most Carbon applications). You can also mix C++ with Objective-C and Cocoa (ObjC++).
Oracle does have products for the Mac (though I doubt you'll run them on the Mac mini). I don't know what D2K is.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
Ohreally_factor
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I don't see how it hurts the community if you switch to OS X.
If anything, it will help the community over the long term, especially if you are a developer. I think far too many developers are saddled with diminished expectations, a result of their roots in the Windows world. Developers should be shooting for "better than OS X" instead of "as good as windows".
I know that I'm generalizing, and that there are lots of developers that aren't ham-stringed in this way. I'm just saying.
-- It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
ThousandStars
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· Score: 4, Insightful
I already addressed part of the "MS better fear Apple" idea in this post. You may want to read the post and replies.
I don't think MS is worried about Apple overtaking Windows and Office, which are still the crown jewels. Keep in mind that we're talking about a company that just posted $10B in profits last quarter. Reread that statement: $10B in profit, not revenue. Wow.
MS should be worried about the present media file format wars, which it could very well lose. Overall, I think the number of Windows customers MS stands to lose to Apple is probably negligible. I'd like to see a more open, multi-platform world -- I type this from a PowerBook -- but the realist in me sees predictions of MS's demise as premature.
Re:Stealing Windows customers?
by
groomed
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· Score: 4, Insightful
A few thoughts:
The key advantage of GNU/Linux and the BSD's is the unfettered freedom to do with them as you please. This freedom is important only to a small number of people, and immediately useful only to an even smaller number. Those who use GNU/Linux and/or BSD on the desktop because it's "better" are either deluding themselves or they are very particular about their environment. In any case, the demand for such systems on the basis of the freedom they provide alone will always be relatively marginal.
That said, historically open systems have always trumped closed ones. Don't forget that Microsoft's success in the late 80's and 90's is due in large part because their systems (first DOS, then Windows 3.0) were more open than those of the competitors (Atari, Commodore, Tandy, Apple, IBM,...).
It's not like Apple has only just now discovered how to build great products. Apple has always been building great stuff, with the possible exception of the "beleagered" late 90's. The current frenzy around Apple, then, can only be partially explained by the greatness of their current crop of merchandise. Much of their success has to be attributed to fashion and sheer hype, which may evaporate as rapidly as it has come. It may only take one guy in a garage working on something we don't know about yet.
Internationally, Apple is a much less powerful brand than might seem the case from an American vantage point. Service can be abysmal, presence is spotty at best. A friend of mine is now on his 3rd or 4th iBook in about 2 years. Each of them has broken down, whether due to the disk failing, the power supply exploding [figure of speech], or the screen/graphics card going bonkers. Each time it means he has to take the iBook away and wait 2 to 6 weeks for it to come back: no substitute on loan, no brand new replacement, not even so much as a sympathetic nod.
The FOSS desktop has made immense progress over the past few years and continues to improve. Progress may be fitful and slow, and detractors may argue that it won't ever lead to something as polished as Mac OS X or even Windows XP (and I think they're probably right), but these people forget that it was the truly horrible system called DOS which ultimately left all others in the dust.
I've got an El Gato EyeTV 500 attached to our mini, and it works perfectly. It's the "maxi" (1.42GHz) mini, so I'm not sure if the cheaper one has enough CPU, but the maxi is routinely displaying 720p on our TV, and in my experiments (our TV won't anti-overscan the picture at 1080i, and the native resolution is 720p anyway) it appears to be able to do 1080i without using all of the CPU as well.
The combination of the mini and the EyeTV 500 makes for a great HTPC, at least for digital over-the-air TV (and unencrypted QAM digital TV over cable).
If Apple's marketing team has any brains...
by
NewOrleansNed
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· Score: 5, Insightful
... they'll start selling these things in college bookstores with a low monthly payment.
In high school, kids play with their computers, maybe do some instant messaging and gaming and email. But they don't have to USE their computer very much. Heck, many schools still allow kids to either write or type their reports.
College, however, is a whole new ballgame. Students are supposed to start acting more like professionals and they're expected to spend quite a bit of time researching topics and using their PCs for class related activities. THAT is when you get them. Offer packages with the mini along with a 15 inch flat panel monitor, wireless mouse and keyboard, external floppy, 128mb thumbdrive, and a small black and white printer for less than 20 bucks a month, and watch their parents flock to buy em.
Seriously, who needs a big, loud PC in college unless you're dealing with 3d software or autocad?
And even then, you're likely to use the school's computers for that anyway.
Look, I am a mac fanatic...
by
barfy
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· Score: 4, Insightful
My main computer is an Ibook, I am going to get a mini, I own an Ipod...
But... Sheesh, why does EVERY apple article have to hit the front page?
Re:A few, for a while.
by
phillymjs
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Then the more savvy will begin to realize that the G4 is bottlenecked by its slow bus speed, and there'll be a lot of pissed off people
No, the more savvy will just stick with their Windows boxes, because they know how to maintain them and are willing to take the time to do so. The Mac mini isn't aimed at them.
The mini is aimed at people who just want to visit web sites and send e-mail, have never used Windows Update, Spybot or Ad-Aware in their life, and cannot comprehend why they get all those pop-up ads and their PC seems to be running slower and slower with each passing month. "The more savvy" are far, far outnumbered by these people.
Just from the orders placed between the announcement of the mini and its release date, it has become the fastest-selling computer ever produced by Apple. They're going to sell millions of the things, and make a lot of new lifetime Mac users in the bargain.
~Philly
Re:Strongly Disagree
by
Kplusplus
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· Score: 4, Interesting
Microsoft couldn't do this because almost all Linux distros are GPL. And the GPL explicitly forbids mixing free and proprietary because of it's viral nautre. That is one of the reasons that Linux itself doesn't underly OS X.
You want to point out that OS X isn't free, but the actual operating system underneath, Darwin, is free and open for all to play with. If someone else wants to build thier own GUI and drawing system on top then they are free to do so.
You believe that OS X harms OSS because Apple claims that it is the best of both worlds. The fact of the matter is that OS X IS the best of both worlds, I have free and open source to everything underneath my toolset and a platform that proprietary software doesn't run from. I can look at the source to CoreFoundation that is toll-free bridged with all the Cocoa foundation objects. I can look at the filesystem code, or networking code, and it's all free. I can use Gimp or Photoshop, I can use vi or Dreamweaver, I have the CHOICE to use either. Isn't the entire point of OSS that warm feeling you get when you have choices? I don't have to use anything and can compare them directly next to each other.
If Gnome or KDE was closed sourced would you be making such a gripe? All OS X is doing is it packages a completely free and open OS with a beautiful DE on top of it, and you never see the ugly scrolling lines. Gnome + GRUB does the same thing. You get a somewhat pretty startup, you get dumped at a login screen if you have that setup and you get a pretty desktop never needing to open a terminal to get anything done.
OSS Developers that get new macs are a good thing because like an earlier poster said, they can finally aim their efforts at making products that are better than OS X rather than as good as windows.
-- -"I'm one of those Mac people that will break a bottle on the bar and hold it to your throat for bad-mouthing my system"
Re:Good idea
by
Durandal64
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· Score: 5, Interesting
It's not about hip; it's about statistics. Apple's research showed that between 6% and 10% of iPod owners who were not already Mac owners would consider a Mac as their next computer as a result of their iPod experience. Another sizable portion said that they'd love to own a Mac, but that the price was prohibitive. That's why Apple made the Mac mini.
4 million iPods were sold last quarter, and 90% of them to Windows users. So that's 3.6 million Windows users with iPods. If 10% of them switch to Macs as a result of their iPod experience, that's another 360,000 Mac users, or an over 33% increase in unit sales. (Apple sold just over a million Macs last quarter.)
Slashdot Mirror
Which has more hard drive space - the iMini or IPod? They have almost the same price point
Having an iPod with your PC is now just as easy to deal with as having it with your Mac.
maybe, but it's certainly not as 'cool' as having the whole shebang, and that's largely (for many people, at least) what having and using an iPod is about.
I think that this is the answer for those people who got an iPod and became people who love Apple products, but can't afford to really break into the company's line, and it's incredibly chic to boot.
Next time a person needs to go and get a new computer, they will consider spending $500 on a mediocre PC that is in a large and gaudy beige case and runs a pain-in-the-ass Windows operating system, or they could get a very small, fast, and attractive Mac that's as easy to use as the iPod they've come to love.
These accessories I'd think can be useful, but not *that* useful. I mean, what is the point of the 'Mac Mini skirt?'
;).
I'm really trying not to troll here, but I think worthwhile accessories would be to the tune of, a dock type thing, that has a built-in USB pro-audio card that looks kind of like this "Mini Skirt."
The Mini is already stylish enough, and I think the only merit of the two latter products is stylistic, if they expanded the usefullness and capacities of the Mini, then i'm all for it
Error 407 - No creative sig found
They've got a monitor pedestal that closely encloses the Mini. As densely packed as that Mac is, there is probably a reason that the case is made of aluminium. I'd be careful about insulating that box.
once the affordable, stylish mac steals the Windows users who love their iPod
Bit of an assumption there, isn't it?
True, this is the first Mac to be within an average joe's price range -- and the fact that it includes no keyboard, mouse, or monitor doesn't matter because it's aimed at potential switchers. Whip out the PC, slide in the Mac Mini.
All the conditions are there. But does the Mini offer enough to get people to climb out of their boxes of complacency and tolerance, and actually switch?
The coolest voice ever.
As far as I'm concerned, just because OS X is developed by a big corporation doesn't put it outside the sphere of *BSD. If you're using OS X, you haven't "left Linux/*BSD" forever.
Read the review from AnandTech. It is very comprehensive (18 pages!) and doesn't fail to point out the design features Apple put in to enhance the user experience. Nor does it fail to hilight the weak points of the design.
In my experience, it is very rarely "form over function" with Apple, it's function intersecting form.
As long as you put 512MB of ram in it, the mini should be capable of running anything your mom wants to run for the next few years. If you want to do video editing or something, well, the G4 can do it, but you'd be better off with a G5. Frankly no 1+ GHz computer is really a toy, ANY of them can run the office apps and such. To me, 1GHz was the line that had to be crossed to get decent performance. Sure, most of us said this kind of stuff when the 386DX came out - it's a 32 bit processor! blah blah blah! And of course, not all 1 gig chips are created equal, compare via to an athlon xp sometime, but I've never met a 1 gig chip that couldn't do everything the average user needed to do with a modern operating system slowing it down :)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
can you explain how iPod is "form over function"? i find it to be the most usable mp3 player out there. about the only thing i feel it's missing is a radio.
in any case, Mac mini - what you see is what you get. if you want expansion, then it's "form over function" for you and the machine will not serve you well. otherwise, it's as capable as any other desktops out there - it's got USB ports, firewire ports, DVI (VGA adapter included), Combo drive, etc. (i personally don't consider lack of p/s, parallel or serial ports "lack of function" as much as keeping the legacy ports. similarly for floppy disk.)
You just disagreed citing the fact that people don't have a Mac for their iPod, and that's precisely the reason why Apple made this.
If people wanted a hip music player that works with their computer, why wouldn't they want a hip computer as well? That's what this is, and it doesn't break the bank.
Except that'll never happen.
:) Apple would lose so much money moving the PC platform, its not even funny.
Imagine how much money they would make selling their OS for ~200$. Now imagine what they make now, even with their tiny market share, selling 3000$ minimum machines
I wandered down to the Apple Store in London last Sunday and came back with the base Mac Mini and am extremely impressed with it, this being my first foray into the Mac world.
Anyway, having just looked at the accessories (Coral link as the original is /.ed) I wouldn't pick up any of them, they look a bit crap and the Grandstand appears to be the only one with any use and then only if you have very limited desk space.
From the story title I was hoping for something a bit morethan bent plastic/metal.
Then again, iPods are overpriced and under-featured and seem to have caught the public interest - so maybe people really are as stupid as Apple thinks they are
nobody wants 500 features in a walkman, they just want a friggen walkman.
I've gotten rid of windows a long time about, and the Mac Mini, finally allowed me to get my wife off windows also. It wasn't for lack of trying, it was just that the pricetag made it ok (My wife is an accountant by day, artist by night). So the mac appealed to her artistic side, and didn't upset the accountant side. So with her pc scheduled to become another small server, we are down to 1 box @ home that has Windows on it, and that box dual boots FreeBSD 5.3 (where it spends most of its time).
As for it stealing Linux/*BSD users away. I can see this sort of happening. My primary workstation now is an 17" Al powerbook, It replaced a Dell Inspiron running slackware. I still use various forms of *nix everyday. My firewall @ home and my other laptop here are OpenBSD. My file server and workstation run FreeBSD (5.3 on workstation, 4-Stable on the file server). At work all 36 Servers run FreeBSD 4-Stable. So while it might not be on our desktops everyday, we still use it.
To E-mail me, replace the first period in my domain with an @
BYODKM is slow ... try...
http://www.plasticsmith.com/
they will consider spending $500 on a mediocre PC that is in a large and gaudy beige case
I think this is the first time I've ever seen beige referred to as gaudy.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Peace
Yeah, I know what you meant, but I don't see why it matters. OS X is based on free software, plays well with other free software (x11, etc), is relatively easy to use and has fewer "gotchas" than do Linux and *BSD.
This isn't like someone put a bash shell in windows and is calling it "Winix" or something... This is an OS that claims to have the best of both worlds--the availability of using open source and open standards while being accessible to even the newest of users. If you're a nerd who cares the way you seem to, you're still going to use Linux/*BSD, but I don't see how it hurts the community if you switch to OS X.
If I were someone who was a strong BSD proponent, I, for one, would welcome our rich, talented, and innovative overlords.
A closer reading of that FAQ answer would make me a bit alarmed if I were a Windows user.
They are saying that "the goal is", not that it will happen.
I could say today that my goal is to create a pig that flies over the moon, and that wouldn't make it happen, even if I were Microsoft.
I was a MacOS X early adopter (perhaps was is the wrong word; I use it on my primary computers to this day), and I still remember how MacOS 9 applications ran under MacOS X. That is to say, not all that well. Everyone who was running X, including myself, absolutely longed for native applications in the first year or so. After Photoshop and Final Cut Pro made it to X, pretty much all was bliss, but it took us a year of pain to get there.
If I had to guess, I'd assume that Win32/.net applications would have a similar trajectory of doom, and if there are significant differences between Win32 and Longhorn APIs, I'd be pretty alarmed by that paragraph if I was relying on non-Microsoft Windows software, or if I was developing same.
Microsoft might be counting on Office to hold people in the new environment. They'll build a version of Office for Longhorn with lots of spiffy features. The old Office won't work well on Longhorn. So someone buys a new computer with Longhorn (probably not compatible with XP), and they have to upgrade Office so they can run Word. This is just what Microsoft wants.
Microsoft has on its side the makers of commodity computers, and that's a powerful friend because many people like having interchangeable computers where nothing is particularly special but you can build interesting things out of components. I don't like that at all - I like my computers being special and unique, like Apple's - but I recognize much of the world loves it. I also think most of the world hates change and so really has to have a powerful jolt to switch.
Because of this, I think there's about a 10-15% ceiling on Apple's market share even if things go outstandingly well. Of course that would mean a 3-5 times improvement over the next few years. I think that's very doable, and I think some of the lovers of commodity computers might go for Linux as a commodity OS. That might mean there would be a world of 10-15% Apple, 10-15% Linux and the rest Microsoft.
I don't think Microsoft's majority of computers sold is in danger, but they're in deep danger of slipping significantly if they don't improve their products dramatically, even pre-Longhorn.
D
Everything that's in BSD is also "free" in OS X. The non-free parts of OS X aren't in Darwin or BSD. There's no Quartz, Aqua, Quicktime, iTunes, etc. in BSD. You also don't get Apple's particular packaging of the OS for free either, but that doesn't stop anyone from making their own distro of Darwin/BSD.
Just because someone charges money for a distro that comes with non-free stuff doesn't make its core less free (as in speech). I don't hear people bitching about Red Hat Enterprise not being a "free" OS, especially now that the "free version of Red Hat" doesn't exist any more (yes, I know they renamed it, but there's more to it than that).
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
IF they sold OSX for $200 for x86, it would fly off the shelf and pretty much be 99% profit.
But then people will complain they have to buy something that has the same functionality as what they got with the computer for free. And they'll complain that they can't use the exact same software as they did with their Windows system. I am serious.
There is a lot more to it than saying you can get 99% profit on an OS. Even Microsoft doesn't get that, I think their Windows division is a little over 80% profit. Remember, Microsoft operating systems are on about 90% of PCs.
Apple would have to start (nearly) from scratch to get native support for all devices on the main board of every x86 system, and make it easy to add support for nearly every other device out there, even if it was designed to be Windows-specific. In short, you'd have to sign on every device maker to make drivers. Darwin for x86 is being maintained and apparently does work but there is more to it than just putting the Aqua UI on it and shipping it.
Then people would expect OSX x86 to run all their Windows programs flawlessly. I'm not sure if the Linux Windows translation/emulation is up to that yet.
Of course you can run C++ on a Mac.
The compiler Apple ships with its IDE (Xcode) is gcc and it naturally supports C++. A lot of Mac software is written in C++ (most Carbon applications). You can also mix C++ with Objective-C and Cocoa (ObjC++).
Oracle does have products for the Mac (though I doubt you'll run them on the Mac mini). I don't know what D2K is.
I don't see how it hurts the community if you switch to OS X.
If anything, it will help the community over the long term, especially if you are a developer. I think far too many developers are saddled with diminished expectations, a result of their roots in the Windows world. Developers should be shooting for "better than OS X" instead of "as good as windows".
I know that I'm generalizing, and that there are lots of developers that aren't ham-stringed in this way. I'm just saying.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I don't think MS is worried about Apple overtaking Windows and Office, which are still the crown jewels. Keep in mind that we're talking about a company that just posted $10B in profits last quarter. Reread that statement: $10B in profit, not revenue. Wow.
MS should be worried about the present media file format wars, which it could very well lose. Overall, I think the number of Windows customers MS stands to lose to Apple is probably negligible. I'd like to see a more open, multi-platform world -- I type this from a PowerBook -- but the realist in me sees predictions of MS's demise as premature.
The combination of the mini and the EyeTV 500 makes for a great HTPC, at least for digital over-the-air TV (and unencrypted QAM digital TV over cable).
... they'll start selling these things in college bookstores with a low monthly payment. In high school, kids play with their computers, maybe do some instant messaging and gaming and email. But they don't have to USE their computer very much. Heck, many schools still allow kids to either write or type their reports. College, however, is a whole new ballgame. Students are supposed to start acting more like professionals and they're expected to spend quite a bit of time researching topics and using their PCs for class related activities. THAT is when you get them. Offer packages with the mini along with a 15 inch flat panel monitor, wireless mouse and keyboard, external floppy, 128mb thumbdrive, and a small black and white printer for less than 20 bucks a month, and watch their parents flock to buy em. Seriously, who needs a big, loud PC in college unless you're dealing with 3d software or autocad? And even then, you're likely to use the school's computers for that anyway.
My main computer is an Ibook, I am going to get a mini, I own an Ipod...
But... Sheesh, why does EVERY apple article have to hit the front page?
Then the more savvy will begin to realize that the G4 is bottlenecked by its slow bus speed, and there'll be a lot of pissed off people
No, the more savvy will just stick with their Windows boxes, because they know how to maintain them and are willing to take the time to do so. The Mac mini isn't aimed at them.
The mini is aimed at people who just want to visit web sites and send e-mail, have never used Windows Update, Spybot or Ad-Aware in their life, and cannot comprehend why they get all those pop-up ads and their PC seems to be running slower and slower with each passing month. "The more savvy" are far, far outnumbered by these people.
Just from the orders placed between the announcement of the mini and its release date, it has become the fastest-selling computer ever produced by Apple. They're going to sell millions of the things, and make a lot of new lifetime Mac users in the bargain.
~Philly
Microsoft couldn't do this because almost all Linux distros are GPL. And the GPL explicitly forbids mixing free and proprietary because of it's viral nautre. That is one of the reasons that Linux itself doesn't underly OS X.
You want to point out that OS X isn't free, but the actual operating system underneath, Darwin, is free and open for all to play with. If someone else wants to build thier own GUI and drawing system on top then they are free to do so.
You believe that OS X harms OSS because Apple claims that it is the best of both worlds. The fact of the matter is that OS X IS the best of both worlds, I have free and open source to everything underneath my toolset and a platform that proprietary software doesn't run from. I can look at the source to CoreFoundation that is toll-free bridged with all the Cocoa foundation objects. I can look at the filesystem code, or networking code, and it's all free. I can use Gimp or Photoshop, I can use vi or Dreamweaver, I have the CHOICE to use either. Isn't the entire point of OSS that warm feeling you get when you have choices? I don't have to use anything and can compare them directly next to each other.
If Gnome or KDE was closed sourced would you be making such a gripe? All OS X is doing is it packages a completely free and open OS with a beautiful DE on top of it, and you never see the ugly scrolling lines. Gnome + GRUB does the same thing. You get a somewhat pretty startup, you get dumped at a login screen if you have that setup and you get a pretty desktop never needing to open a terminal to get anything done.
OSS Developers that get new macs are a good thing because like an earlier poster said, they can finally aim their efforts at making products that are better than OS X rather than as good as windows.
-"I'm one of those Mac people that will break a bottle on the bar and hold it to your throat for bad-mouthing my system"
It's not about hip; it's about statistics. Apple's research showed that between 6% and 10% of iPod owners who were not already Mac owners would consider a Mac as their next computer as a result of their iPod experience. Another sizable portion said that they'd love to own a Mac, but that the price was prohibitive. That's why Apple made the Mac mini.
4 million iPods were sold last quarter, and 90% of them to Windows users. So that's 3.6 million Windows users with iPods. If 10% of them switch to Macs as a result of their iPod experience, that's another 360,000 Mac users, or an over 33% increase in unit sales. (Apple sold just over a million Macs last quarter.)