Slashdot Mirror


How GPS Is Killing Lighthouses

sakshale writes "Spiegel Online has an article about the impact of GPS systems on Lighthouses. They claim that the popularity of the satellite-based global positioning system has led to the closure of lighthouses along the German coast." As the article says, "critics question whether the new system is reliable and safe enough to warrant the closure of these historical beacons of safety."

70 of 509 comments (clear)

  1. In Other News by hjtamvla9Xbp · · Score: 5, Funny

    How e-mail is killing the sales of postage stamps.

    --
    "There is no spoon."
    1. Re:In Other News by krem81 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nice to know you're still with us, Monsieur Bastiat.

    2. Re:In Other News by elambi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How much do you like getting one of those email greeting cards? It's a really big thrill isn't it?

      --
      Sig, we don't need no stinking Sig!
    3. Re:In Other News by flyingsquid · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Exactly. I send out Christmas cards every year precisely because its a pain in the ass to use physical mail. Sending someone an email takes about two seconds to put them on the list if you have their address, maybe a minute to Google them if you don't. It doesn't exactly bowl you over when someone spent two seconds putting you on a mailing list of 300.

      I go through the commotion of getting my envelopes, figuring out postage, signing all the cards, and I make my own cards (you can print on Bristol board, heavy drawing paper or cardstock using a conventional inkjet) which can take a while. This occupies a significant portion of my Christmas vacation but I figure it's worth it. Printing an email and hanging it on the fridge just isn't the same.

    4. Re:In Other News by Fred_A · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's all those damn pirates downloading lighthouses for free off the intarweb that hurt the business. The business model is fine.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    5. Re:In Other News by Vombatus · · Score: 2, Funny
      but as long as someone on the boat has one good eye

      Arrrrr, ye insensitive clod... Why ye think I am wearing this eyepatch?

      Keelhauling is too good for you

      --
      This sig is intentionally blank
  2. Run by US Gov't? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't GPS run by the United States government? Are other countries sure it's a good idea to be relying on that?

  3. Old news by IBeatUpNerds · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lighthouses have been obsolete since radar came to be. GPS is hardly the starting point for this. At any rate, I'm a fan of lighthouse preservation efforts as I think they're a very interesting part of our evolution of navagational technology, and, in some cases, quite beautiful. Lighthouses have been pretty well obsolete for 40 years.

    1. Re:Old news by forkazoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Radar is common on big boats, but for small personal boats, it would be quite expensive. GPS, on the other hand, is so cheap that almost everybody can afford it.

    2. Re:Old news by Eryq · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wonder if we can combine the old and new worlds... e.g., turn all the obsolete lighthouses into cell towers...

      --
      I'm a bloodsucking fiend! Look at my outfit!
    3. Re:Old news by SimonInOz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You've never sailed a small boat, have you? Lighthouses are wonderful. There is nothing so bad as your vessel being beaten against a rocky shore ... except, perhaps, not being sure what continent that rocky shore belongs to ...

      --
      "Cats like plain crisps"
    4. Re:Old news by kfg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And just how well does that shoal show up on radar anyway?

      KFG

    5. Re:Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seeing the shoreline is not the problem. Knowing exactly where you are is, at least in bad weather, and then you don't know if you're near or in shallow water (no sonar/radar in small boats). Lighthouses mark dangerous points and can be seen even in heavy storms, when the unilluminated coastline blurs until you practically hit it.

      There have been GPS outages which resulted in hours of whacky readings (thousands of miles off). Lighthouses can fail too, but they're another layer of security.

    6. Re:Old news by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're not thinking small enough. I have been on sailboats that are 22 feet long and some that are 42 feet long. They do NOT have radar. Loran was installed (but it isn't very accurate). GPS is finialy cheap enough, but not always available (requires bateries that can die). Our sailboat had a small gas motor. We had no power source other than bateries on hte smaller boats. Radar is still far and few between on them and will not pick up shallow watters or wrecks. Some form of light is still an advantage in storms where GPS is either un available or too hard to compare to a chart of the area. Lighthoses and buoies are still the best way to go for the smaller boats.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    7. Re:Old news by StikyPad · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some form of light is still an advantage in storms where GPS is either un available or too hard to compare to a chart of the area. Lighthoses and buoies are still the best way to go for the smaller boats.

      You're assuming anyone cares about small sailboats crashing on the shore, or running aground. By your logic, we should cover national parks with floodlights so the random hiker has a safer journey. If a tanker crashes into the coast or runs aground, that's a big deal. If a small sailboat is lost, that's a personal tragedy. At some point people have to take personal responsibility for their actions and the situations they place themselves in. Am I an insensitive clod? Yes. Yes I am.

    8. Re:Old news by RWerp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, but the public has been running navigation systems for centuries. You can tax boat owners, if you don't like the idea that YOUR taxes are being spent on that. That would be a fair deal.

      --
      "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
    9. Re:Old news by keldog728 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      light houses not only let you know where the coast line is, but often where submerged rocks are, which would not show up on radar. An example is the Duxbury Pier light in Plymouth Harbor (MA). While the rocks the light warns boaters from are clearly visible during low tides, at high tides they are completely submerged. The light marks the entrance into three different channels in Cape Cod Bay, and without this light there would be daily accidents.

    10. Re:Old news by EvanED · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are ignoring the fact that it takes resources to keep the lighthouses running. Electricity costs, maintainance, and if there's someone still manning it, their salary.

      Not saying we should get rid of them, far from it, just that it isn't free to keep going.

    11. Re:Old news by homer_ca · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lighthouses don't light up the whole coast. They'd be more like trail markers and signposts, which they *do* have in national parks. Just like with hiking, navigating with a chart and compass is something every sailor *should* know how to do. GPS should really be tconsidered a convenience, not a necessity.

    12. Re:Old news by hachete · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I grant you that radar and GPS have de-emphasised certain parts of navigation and booted out sextants and other radio-based systems like RDF, Loran altogether. Sextant sightings are now treated as an emergency measure, visual sightings by compass are still very useful. Lighthouses play an important role in the navigation environment.

      Radar - good for night navigation and bad weather - only gives you a partial picture and sometimes a less than accurate one - the plan - and sometimes that can be misleading. Nothing better than a lighthouse to truly *fix* your position because it encodes it's identity into light. By the same token, that's why ships still have navigation lights.

      A 3-point fix using compass bearings off of lighthouses and buoys is still the best way to fix your positions. Radar bearings are nowhere near as accurate, and far more prone to the "cocked-hat" problem. The same with Loran.

      At anchor, taking compass bearings off of well-known points is still the best way to see if you're dragging anchor.

      --
      Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
    13. Re:Old news by stridebird · · Score: 2, Informative
      and booted out sextants and other radio-based systems like RDF, Loran altogether

      Not true in the case of Loran C. It is now widely understood that not only is GPS at the mercy of its US military owners who can switch the signal off at any time, but that the GPS signal can be interfered with locally (a radius of 50 - 100 km perhaps).

      Loran C is being proposed as a full back-up system to GPS in the light of these issues - particularily the interference problem. Currently, such an attack in, say, the English Channel would cause big time chaos.

      The European Galileo system, when operative, will not provide an alternative back-up as it will be vulnerable to the same kind of interference attack.

    14. Re:Old news by deadweight · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't think so. Radar is great for finding things like metal radar reflectors on some Coast Guard buoys, steel boats, high rise buildings, and steep cliffs. Low lying land is nearly or totally invisible to radar, especially if there is any rain or rough seas. Radar will obviously not show outlying UNDERWATER obstacles either. Besides for all that, most boats DON'T HAVE IT.

  4. That is until we shut them off... by Art+Pollard · · Score: 5, Interesting
    One thing that must be kept in mind when dealing with GPS systems is that they were developed by the United States military. They are of course, a significant part of the reason why the U.S. can bomb a bunker in Baghdad without having to carpet bomb the entire area (and all the civilians).

    As such, the U.S. military can turn off the satelites or scramble their signal whenever it deems appropriate. So, before our friends the Germans decide to become overly dependant on U.S. technology, they ought to ensure that the world is a stable place otherwise they may find themselves hung out to dry on the reef.

  5. Why take them out? by chrispyman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Although the lighthouses really aren't needed, do they really cost so much for upkeep to where it's not cost effective to keep the system running as a backup? I would imagine that it would be very nice to still have lighthouses should a ship suddenly find its GPS no longer working.

  6. Lighthouses are still valuable... by aquarian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...as tourist attractions. In fact the actual light and other equipment has been automated for years. Many navigational beacons are solar powered, and almost maintenance free.

    1. Re:Lighthouses are still valuable... by Iphtashu+Fitz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In fact the only lighthouse in the United States that is still manned and maintained by the government (the United States Coast Guard) is Boston Harbor Light. It was the first lighthouse in the nation, which is why the government has agreed to keep it manned while all the others maintained by the USCG are automated.

  7. like old business models by serano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lighthouses are like the RIAA. The conditions that allowed them to flourish have changed, leaving them superfluous. At least in one way, lighthouses have an advantage over the RIAA; they are charming and endearing to many people, and they provide nostaligic pleasure. No one will miss the RIAA.

    1. Re:like old business models by barc0001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Everyone here seems to get it wrong. We went through the same thing over the last few years on the west coast of Canada over closing up lighthouses, replacing them with automatic beacons. A lot of them are starting to be opened again and staffed by humans. Why?

      Everyone thinks a lighthouse just sits there and looks bright in the darkness. The ones on the west coast here:

      - radio in weather reports from their stations
      - test the water for pollution and temperature
      - test salinity of the water at high and low tides
      - send in visibility reports
      - assist passing boaters with information via radio.
      - assist boaters who know where they are already (thanks to those GPSs) but also know they're in trouble.

      Last week I saw a thing on TV on the daily schedule of a lighthouse up in northwest BC. Did you know the lighthouse keepers' day starts at 3AM with the first readings and goes until 10 PM? Which is usually why it's either a family or at least 2 people staffing them.

      GPS units can help you avoid troubles just fine, but if you're already in a situation, it can't do more than tell you where you are. A lighthouse can coordinate assistance efforts on your behalf, and if you're close enough, may be able to either guide you in, or come get you in their launch.

    2. Re:like old business models by eh2o · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The large optics and high maintenance costs are a thing of the past. Modern lighthouse fixtures, which can sometimes be found bolted on the outside of historic lighthouses, are very compact (e.g. the one at point arena is only 40 pounds), efficient, and have better visibility to boot.

  8. Time for a new business model by dswensen · · Score: 4, Funny

    Lighthouse makers just need to move to a new "all-lawsuit" model of revenue like the music and movie industry has. GPS is denying lighthouse makers their constitutionally protected right to obscene amounts of profit. If you're using a GPS, you're stealing from lighthouses*. It's as simple as that.

    * or, if you prefer, copyright infringing from lighthouses.

  9. ObSimpsons by sharkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Is that dad?"
    "Either that, or Batman's really let himself go!"

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  10. Levels of protection by DaveRobb · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I get the feeling from reading this article that this while this quote:

    Though the 15 lighthouses on the North Sea cost German taxpayers about 400,000 a year to operate, money alone should not be a reason for shutting them down.

    says money isn't the only reason, the shipping companies and possibly governments have no reason other than money to want to see them gone.

    And for what? 400k euro/year? Granted, that's only for 15 lighthouses, but that's peanuts compared to what is spent on other things.

    I wonder what a supertanker spill would cost to clean up, after there's a power failure onboard and the GPS nav systems are offline, and there aren't any lighthouses to use as backups.
  11. Question FTA by riptide_dot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FTA: "For one thing, GPS can never be 100 percent reliable -- extreme weather conditions like hail or snowfall or even solar winds are known to disrupt service."

    I'm just wondering - couldn't those same factors affect a captain's visibility to a lighthouse?

    I don't think that all lighthouses are in immediate danger of closure. This from the The National Lighthouse museum:

    "With all of the advances made in electronic navigation over the last half century, the use of lighthouses as aids to navigation has certainly waned. The Global Positioning System (GPS), in particular, has transformed the art of navigation to electronic methods. Lighthouses are still used by ships as a back up to their satellite navigation aids, however, and they are used by small boats that aren't equipped with the necessary navigational electronics. Some lighthouses, which are used as range lights are still as important today as they ever were."

    The Staten Island Lighthouse, for example, is the rear range light for the Ambrose Channel Range, the primary deep-draft channel into New York Harbor, and remains of vital importance to New York marine traffic."


    Here's an ironic twist too: Using a GPS to find a lighthouse.

    And: The GPS coordinates of many lighthouses.

    --
    I was in the park the other day wondering why frisbees get bigger and bigger the closer they get - and then it hit me.
  12. as if galileo would be any better... by slew · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe they'll get less opposition to closing light houses if they forced german ships to use the new EU galileo system instead of GPS.

    On the other hand, if this happens, perhaps the lighthouse preservation lobby will force the EU government to cancel Galileo to save historic lighthouses. Stranger things have happened in Europe...

  13. The Lighthouse Joke by krunk4ever · · Score: 5, Funny

    the moment satellites or the gps system fails, we'll get something like: Believe it or not...this is the transcript of an actual radio conversation between a US naval ship and Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October 1995. The Radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on Oct. 10, 1995. US Ship: Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the south to avoid a collision. CND reply: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision. US Ship: This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert your course. CND reply: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course! US Ship: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA*, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!! CND reply: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

    1. Re:The Lighthouse Joke by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Lighthouses have a number of uses. Manned lighthouses provide local emergency services. If your boat sinks, a lighthouse will indicate the general direction of the shore (very useful when your GPS is 50 feet underwater). Also, of course, useful when your GPS has died all of a sudden.

      This reminds me of the parable:

      Acolyte: Father, what is the difference between knowledge and faith?
      Priest: Knowledge is like the Sun. Faith is like a candle.
      Acolyte: But I thought that faith was more important than knowledge. How can that be, the Sun is far brighter than any candle!
      Priest: Come back and ask me again at midnight.
      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  14. WTF = Where TF?! by steve_vmwx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ocean Navigator carried an article a few years ago about how the number of people "lost at sea" reported by the US Coast Guard had *increased* since GPS was invented!

    The typical response to was "the batteries went flat...". Hmmmm. Point taken re postage stamps and email but this is a lives-at-stake situation.

    BTW, this is also why the US Navy still teaches celestial navigation and morse code.

    Stevo

    --
    Forget the truth. Science is fact.
    1. Re:WTF = Where TF?! by jagapen · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Smart people have backups.
      And those backups are called lighthouses.
  15. Netcraft confirms by Angry+Black+Man · · Score: 3, Funny

    It is official; Netcraft confirms: Lighthouses are dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered lighthouse community when IDC confirmed that the lighthouse market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all navigational assistance tools. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that lighthouses have lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Lighthouses are collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Ship Admin comprehensive navigational test.

    You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict the future of lighthouses. The hand writing is on the wall: lighthouses faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for lighthouses because lighthouses are dying. Things are looking very bad for lighthouses. As many of us are already aware, lighthouses continue to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. A river with no lighthosue.

    FreeLighthouse is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time lighthouse developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: lighthouses are dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    Openlighthouse leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of Openlighthouse. How many users of Netlighthouse are there? Let's see. The number of Openlighthouse versus Netlighthouse posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Netlighthouse users. lighthouse/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Netlighthouse posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of lighthouse/OS. A recent article put Freelighthouse at about 80 percent of the *lighthouse market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Freelighthouse users. This is consistent with the number of Freelighthouse Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, Freelighthouse went out of business and was taken over by lighthouseI who sell another troubled OS. Now lighthouseI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *lighthouse has steadily declined in market share. lighthouses are very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If lighthouses are to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *lighthouse continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, lighthouses are dead.

    Fact: Lighthouses are dying

    --
    the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
  16. Galileo by pjay_dml · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... is what Europe came up with, as an answer to your question.

    http://www.esa.int/export/esaNA/galileo.html
    http://europa.eu.int/comm/dgs/energy_transport/gal ileo/index_en.htm

    China seems to agree

    ...but the yanks are not happy....

    1. Re:Galileo by kesuki · · Score: 4, Informative

      ahh so europe decide to launch their own gps satelite system, so that ships won't crash into the coast during a war. The US GPS system has a way of distorting data so that only US mil approved GPS devices will work, commercial GPS sytems will simply give innacurate readings, if they work at all. Frankly it makes sense to not want to be crippled in the event of a war, because Uncle sam says to take it backdoor and live ina stonage pre-GPS world because it's a WAR and the enemy could be using commercial GPS hardware. sounds like a hardware hacking project to me ;) hacking a commercial GPS device to work with military 'distorted' signals.. what with the war in iraq, there is at least one part of the world where they've got GPS set to obfuscated mode ;)

    2. Re:Galileo by joshERR · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or you could just turn your unit on. The distortion was removed a few years ago. Guess you want need to hack after all

    3. Re:Galileo by AB3A · · Score: 5, Informative

      Selective Availability can be circumvented with a number of interesting technologies. I've heard rumors of the use of two GPS receivers placed a known distance apart being used to cancel out the SA part of GPS.

      There are a number of differential GPS technologies which are in service right now for improving accuracy. There is also WAAS. In theory, the military can turn those off too. But in reality, Differential GPS is distributed such that someone would actually have to go to the differential transmitter site and shut it down. It's not just a matter of flipping a switch.

      What it all comes down to is that you don't have to break the SA crypto. There are other ways of improving the accuracy of your position if you really care about such things.

      Let's not forget the Russian GLONASS system, either.

      But what really killed lighthouses wasn't GPS. It was LORAN. And LORAN has been all over Europe and the Middle East for decades. It is ground based, and we "arrogant cowboys" have very little to do with it.

      I'm afraid that this is yet another case of European leftist propaganda. If it hadn't been for GPS killing off light houses, it would have been something else --and it's easy to blame the US for it. Easy, but wrong.

      --
      Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
    4. Re:Galileo by slimak · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Those "kind" of people are ALMOST as bad as the type that rant and rave about the type of software someone uses on their personal computer.

      I find it intertesting how these people that go on suicide missions are generally considered crazy. To me, they seem more passionate about a belief. Lots of people say they would do anything for something they believe it. The difference is the people blowing themselves up mean it. While I do not agree with their tactics, or even their believes in most cases, its hard not to admire their conviction -- as long as its from a safe distance.

  17. Re:By falling out of the sky! by nate+nice · · Score: 2, Interesting

    3 meters? Are you kidding me? I did survey last summer and we used GPS. With a triangulated system we could be accurate to withen 1/100 of a 10th. That's apx. 1 mm! And trust me, we had to be sometimes. GPS is great stuff. Finally math books can spew out real world examples of geometry (mainly trig, subset of geometry anyways) that the students might use one day.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  18. sextant? abacus? by slew · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know how most of you are all fro new technology, but we need these failsafes. What happens when your computer fails or your keyboard, mouse or display systems are no longer functioning. It's far too dangerous in my opinion to allow sliderules and other (now secondary) computation aids (like abacuses) fall to the wayside b/c of newer technology.

    I propose that every computer science major be forced to learn how to use a slide rule and an abacus...

    And we should require every gps unit to be equiped with a pendulum and a sextant as backup...

    Uhm, yeah, right ;^)

  19. And just WHO is complaining? by snStarter · · Score: 2, Funny

    The pirates who build false lighthouses to lure ships onto a lea shore!

    Piracy is never far away!

    1. Re:And just WHO is complaining? by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's not piracy, it's copyright inf- er, sorry, reflex...

  20. As a boater I can tell you by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Lighthouses have been obsolete since radar came to be. GPS is hardly the starting point for this.

    As a boater I can tell you that neither radar nor GPS makes lighthouses obsolete. Nor did LORAN before them.

    Sure, if you've got it and its working you can tell where you are. Within a football field if selective-availability is on, much better if it's off.

    And the big commercial ships have them and they're usually working.

    And the small commercial ships in well-to-do countries (like fishing boats for instance) may have them and they may be working.

    And the more well-to-do pleasure-boaters may have them and they may be working.

    But there are a LOT of boats out there that DON'T have them. The BULK of them, if you're talking numbers.

    Fishermen may not have them - and may have other things to deal with than watching a screen. Most pleasure boats are small fry, not millionaires' giant toys. (A small ocean-capable cruising sailboat, for instance, may be considerably less expensive than an RV of a similar size.)

    Even if they have them, any bets whether they're working when you're coming in after a month at sea, two years after they were purchased? Salt spray is HELL on electronics, and gets into everything.

    And even when they do have them, and they are operating, a boater may think he's far out to sea when he's actually almost onto a hidden hazard, and not be looking. (A lighted nav marker, among other things, is the idiot-light of boating.)

    Saying GPS obsoletes lighthouses is like saying GPS-based navigation systems for cars obsolete stop signs, curve signs, and the blinking lights associated with them.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:As a boater I can tell you by MoonChildCY · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am not sure about this, but the lighthouse could be very useful in a GPS system.

      Out-of-the-box GPS has horrible accuracy for travelling into dangerous waters. But if there is a differential GPS correction set up on the lighthouse, then the accuracy will drop down to centimeters (cm). And a lighthouse would be the perfect place to set this up. Clear view of the sky, no buildings obstructing it, on the edge of land (as close as you can get on a boat) and already located in areas that need great accuracy.

      Obsolete in the older sense of beaming visible light, quite useful in beaming corrections to a GPS unit (if equiped to receive them).

  21. psuedolites by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... or more relevant... pseudolites. These are pseudo GPS satellites that can be used to add more "satellites" to the GPS solution.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:psuedolites by ToteAdler · · Score: 2, Informative

      They already do this, not with light houses because there's no point really, but its called DGPS, Differential GPS. The Coast Guard operates it.

  22. The prudent mariner by rwebb · · Score: 4, Informative

    The prudent mariner will not rely solely on any single aid to navigation.
    Natianiel Bowditch (as best as I can recall the quote)

    Among many other reasons for retaining fixed aids to navigation, the GPS system uses the WGS-84 datum. Many charts, in particular many harbor charts, still use local datam references.

    Check with the former Commanding Officer and Navigator of the USS LaMoure County for their opinion regarding over-reliance on GPS positions with respect to local chart datums.

    Visual and radar piloting have the benefit of being independent of the local coordinate system. Visual aids to navigation, in particular, may seem to be "obsolete" but they are wonderfully helpful in real world piloting situations.

    Been there, done that, didn't get relieved for cause.

    --
    Trusted by cats.
  23. Re:Lighthouses still have their uses by Jerf · · Score: 4, Informative

    You lose big Karma points for posting a Snopes story as truth.

    Snopes... if it sounds too good or too funny to be true, you should probably check Snopes. Otherwise, those of us who have will mercilessly mock you.

  24. All your eggs in one basket... by Platinum+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One word:

    Fallback.

    --

    Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
  25. every time you buy a GPS unit... by Jrod5000+at+RPI · · Score: 5, Funny

    you kill a lighthouse!

    Please, think of the historical beacons of safety.

  26. Sure, buddy. by nsaneinside · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Somehow, I doubt you were filled with brains to preserve your intelligence.
    I find two (out of two) things wrong with your statement. One: Egyptian pyramids were pathways to the heavens for, and monuments to, the pharoahs who were buried in them. They were not in any way related to lighthouses. Two: Last I checked, the Egyptian pyramids date back, oh, several thousand years or so. The first GPS satellite was launched in 1978.

  27. Re:By falling out of the sky! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Surveyors can let a GPS "integrate" and use other techniques that don't work on a moving boat.

    Also in many parts of the world knowing your exact possition to within meters is not as good as it sound because the charts are not so good. For example if the big rock is charted 1/2 mile ast of where it really is. This is common. Radars and lighthouses will still be needed for a long time.

    Every book and navigation class will tell you to NEVER depend on only one source of navigation data. Always use at least two and cross check.

    I typically use simple techniques from the pre-electronic era to comfirm the GPS. I've punch ed in a wrong number on the GPS and would have gone off in a totally wrong direction

  28. Redundancy by rnturn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I once worked with a bunch of pilots when GPS was still in its infancy. I never heard any of them, nor have I heard of any to this day, ever say they were interested in, say, getting rid of their VOR receiver once they ever put a GPS receiver in their plane. Why make mariners navigate without a backup system? I can't imagine that they're in favor of this. Can't imagine the companies that offer insurance are crazy about eliminating the lighthouse system either.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  29. Re:By falling out of the sky! by maotx · · Score: 2, Informative

    Was that using Standard Positioning Service (SPS) or Precise Positioning Service (PPS)? The SPS is used by both military and civilian. Anyone who can purchase a $100 receiver can use it to detect their location within an accuracy of 100 meters (95 percent) horizontally and 156 meters (95 percent) vertically.

    The PPS is used by the military and users authorized by the U.S. P(Y) code. Not anyone can use this one. It provides provides a predictable positioning accuracy of at least 22 meters (95 percent) horizontally and 27.7 meters vertically. Not to mention that most PPS GPS devices are hard to come by. PPS is typically used in military, aviation, and marine usage.
    The only way I can figure you got ~1mm accuracy is if you used a ground station as a known point of reference to correct the skew. Either that or your triangulation is wrong ;)
    GPS also uses, I believe, up to twelve satellites at a time to improve accuracy. Very rarely do they only use three satellites to obtain its coordinates.

    Link

    --
    I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
  30. Re:GPS does have its bugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most likely not. More likely, the errors you saw were caused by deficiencies that are common to cheap, commercially produced receivers that you buy at the local sporting goods store.

    In any case, during disposal ops, the NAV mission broadcasts are switched off. That is, there is no broadcast containing anything that your handheld would use to compute position-velocity states. In general, de-orbits are planned events inwhich the health bits of the satellite in question are set appropriately. You receiver is programmed to ignore satellites that have poor health status.
    Calculating position and velocity is a function of your receiver. Your receiver has a software filter that is very finicky. Due to one or more errors (insufficient/poor data to provide a good convergence, a local receiver clock drift that was unaccounted for, etc.) you probably got a bad solution.

    In general, better receivers do not have these deficiencies. Nicer receivers have better antennas, more stable local clocks, better Kalman filter implementations, better environmental corrections algorithms (multipath, ionospherics), etc. Most seaworthy ships have nicer receivers than you or I purchase. Additionally ships generally keep their receivers on continuously giving them better previous state data to feed into their Kalman filter.

    Don't generalize the problems encountered by small receivers to those of more expensive, professional receivers.

    If anything, you receiver should not have even been reporting 500 km/h. It really should have been reporting a problem converging on a good solution.

  31. Re:By falling out of the sky! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please elaborate on how you did this. Because results like this are practically unheard of.

    What ephemeredes were you using (an what models did they use)? How many states was your kalman filter? What antenna technology were you using? What were you multipath correction algorithms? How long were you collects? Any DGPS source? What were your atmospherics? What about you clock drift corrections?

    Was this a static or dynamic location?

    Even if you know the position of you ground station down to that level, it is nearly impossible to converge a solution using any GPS source using traditional filtering techniques (that is unless you weight the known position to 100% I mean, changes of the antenna temperature and the density of the troposphere due to humidity can cause errors of a centimeter.

    Please elaborate. If you can tell us how you did this, you'll have a wonderful, cushy job at the IGS (http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html) for the rest of your life...

  32. Re:Already being done by Bob+McCown · · Score: 2, Informative

    The use of cellphones for marine comms is certainly NOT becoming the norm. Calling 911 on your cellphone if your boat is in trouble is the worst thing you can do. A marine radio on the energency channel is more likely to get several nearby boats, AND the Coast Guard, all in one shot. Also allows them to triangulate your position using off-the-shelf RF direction finders. Ask any coastie or freighter/tanker captain/crew, they prefer marine radio.

  33. Re:Free for all by nomadic · · Score: 2, Informative

    And it's a shame the US threatened to shoot down [spacedaily.com] the alternative european/asian Galileo system if the US military couldn't have the right to shut the new system down when it wanted

    Alright, that phrasing's just a bit overdone. The US didn't threaten to just shoot it down arbitrarily, they just said they might have to if it were used by a foreign power that was at war with the US.

  34. Lighthouses will stand the test of time ;) by Kaldaien · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I gave a lot of thought to this while I was in Cape Cod last Fall...

    They paid a few million dollars to relocate highland lighthouse hundreds of feet because of beach erosion in 1997. Admittedly anyone who sails around highland (Cape Cod) lighthouse is well aware of that spot and GPS does a far better job than that lighthouse... But the historical significance outweighed the price.

    GPS is more accurate and any vessel that uses it for navigation darn well better have a fail-safe. I don't think reliability is going to be too big a concern...

    Light houses will likely stay in operation purely for the atmosphere in the future. The new bulbs are extremely high efficiency and cost of operation is minimal, it's relocating the darn things because of beach erosion that might do them in... At that point it probably becomes a publicly funded situation, with local residents pitching to save their historic landmarks rather than tax dollars.

    I for one would pay to keep them in operation, you really have to experience a night in Cape Cod to understand :)

  35. is it just me... by jamesh · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... or did anyone else imagine laser beams from GPS satellite's aiming down at lighthouses blowing them to pieces?

    ?

    I guess it was just me.

  36. Re:By falling out of the sky! by NormalVisual · · Score: 3, Funny

    Not if the location of the lighthouse is off a bit, and the location of the big-ass underwater rock was mapped relative to the lighthouse. :-)

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  37. Candles by like.narly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know about you guys, but I keep candels in my drawer for when my light bulbs go out.
    Light houses might just be a good thing to keep around.

  38. Re:By falling out of the sky! by Dzerzhinski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Exactly. My dad is a sailor/shipwright, and I remember an example he gave me when commercial GPS was still really new. His ship was docked when he happened to check the GPS (I think he was in either Sydney or Christchurch NZ). The GPS showed the boat was sitting on land in the middle of one of the big streets that ran beside the pier, a few hundred meters from the actual location. The GPS turned out to be far more accurate than the charts. This is getting to be less and less of a problem as cartographers use GPS to update their maps, and admittedly the error was still small enough that it wouldn't be a problem in most situations. But, again, your GPS is only as good as its maps, and cartographers are only human. Also, my dad later ran a marine electronics shop in Seattle. That's a whole other can of beans. After helping my dad try to fix GPS/radar/other navigation systems and seeing just how screwed up they can get, I would highly recommend that all aspiring sailors learn how to use the sextants in their emergency kits.

    --
    Never trust a physicist further than his DeBroglie wavelength.
  39. did you hear about the guy by nounderscores · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...who sent a love letter to this girl three times a day for three years?

    She married the postman: He was always there.