Slashdot Mirror
New Orbitz Terms Prohibit Inbound Deep Linking
chekovma writes "Orbitz has announced a new set of Terms and Conditions that take effect March 12th which require anyone who uses their website (creates an account there) to follow strict inbound linking rules. These rules prohibit a user from creating even a plain text link to orbitz.com without first notifying them and require a user to take down such a link at their desire. It also disallows any deep linking -- meaning even this post violates those terms and conditions."
I just wanted to tell you how much I love you! Have a great day!
Ok, they have some unenforcable legal nonsense in their terms & conditions, but does that justify giving them a free advert on slashdot?
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
How about someone sits them down and explains what would happen to the web if everyone had this policy?
Jesus, you'd think their web developers would have pointed out their stupidity - or maybe I'm just being naive.
sig:- (wit >= sarcasm)
By reading this comment, you agree that you will not link to this comment or any of its child comments. You also agree to mod it up, using any and all mod points that you currently have.
By reading the terms and conditions of this comment, you are locked in to obeying them by the most basic laws of physics of the universe and failure to obey them will cause you and your entire family to instantly cease to exist.
I'm a big tall mofo.
Ok, so if you post a dupe of story it could be serious. No dupe postings of this story after March 12th :)
A legal/contractual agreement which is established by a click through agreement is unlikely to be enforcable, and even if it were, HOW are they going to enforce it? Are they going to sue you for linking to them? If the sued party got an even semi-competent judge and council it wouldn't be much of an issue, if you put a site on the public internet, and don't take proper technical measures to insure that people don't take actions you don't want them to then your site is pretty much fair game. It's extremely easy to insure that people don't go to a part of your site that you don't want them to, porn operators have been doing it for the better part of a decade now, so scrap the stupid unenforcable EULA crap and have your web monkies earn their salaries!
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Can't their web server just reject or redirect any page requests that don't have a referrer field of their own web site?
No sharp objects, I'm a programmer!
By removing all links to Orbitz from other domains, watch them fall in search engine rankings. Orbitz fails to realize they only are high in the search results because other sites link to them. Their current policy indicates they don't want to even show up!
I'm breaking section 6 of your stupid and unenforceable rules by not getting a 'separate linking agreement' with you before posting that link, and I'm not going to edit this post if you ask me to, becasue slashdot doesn't let anyone edit posts.
I challenge you to try and enforce your new terms and conditions, or drop them.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Generally I think their idea may be good, but maybe taken too far and/or poorly executed.
:-)
Here's why:
Orbitz is a travel site for purchasing tickets, etc. The price and availability of these things changes constantly. Additionally, I would bet they may run into customer service problems if too many people are all trying to view and/or book the same flights at the same time. The system is really designed to be a point in time quote system. The problem comes when someone does a deep link, to a quote for example. Chances are if a link is posted on the web (or sent through email), the page the new visitor sees may be different from the page/price/availability the creator of the link saw.
That all being said, there are technical means to reduce, if not eliminate this problem. Could be they are implementing a technical solution, and are putting this in the TOS so they have something to point to when deep links suddenly stop working and customers complain.
PR wise they could have done this better, but I bet they never thought a place like this would publicize a TOS change.
On the other hand, I could be all wrong about their motives.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
Why would anyone need to deep link to a gum that keeps your teeth clean anyway?
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
Man, your lawyer must have friends in very high places if he can issue a Cease to Exist notice!
How is such a thing delivered? Does the Reaper come in person?
Blockwars: Free, multiplayer, Tetris like game.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
Dunno folks. It'd be interesting to see who they go after. I read that thing, and I wasn't thinking of Joe Sixpack linking to orbitz.com with a ilttle orbitz logo banner, but rather of someone ripping off their C/C page, with all the other links intact.
But heck, maybe that doesn't make any sense either.
Another possibility is someone slapping together a meta-airline search engine, that runs its own army of accounts and automatically sends requests to Orbitz, Travelocity, Expeida, Opopo (or whatever it is) at once, then returns the data
hey, you know, that sounds like a prtty good Firefox plugin...
I'd never heard of them
Congrats to whoever wrote your popup blocker.
Here are a couple of examples of why someone would want to deep link:
A competitor may want to deep link in order to directly compare rates for flights... similar to what Progressive does with car insurance. Or, some unaffiliated company (like a travel agency) may want to build their own travel web portal and simply use the Orbitz site to show/reserve flight information without Orbitz's permission.
-- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/deeplinking
We wouldn't have much of this problem if browsers didn't send the HTTP "Referer" header that gave away the URL that linked to them. So I say let's cut this header out. They don't need to be tracking where we have visited before, anyway. And besides, that header name is misspelled.
And while you're at it, cut out the HTTP "User-Agent" header. With web standards, there's no longer any need for this, either. That will stop the practice of favoring certain browsers.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
I use Orbitz all the time, and I have generally had good experiences with them. In fact, I used them the other day to book a trip to Phoenix. It's too bad these new terms are so restrictive.
Although no longer updated, David E Sorkin's Don't Link to Us! page is still relevant.
A page like that could be useful for shaming companies into improving their linking policies.
Those are two instances which are clearly not in the best interests of Orbitz. However, what about more mundane uses? Perhaps I want to help a friend find the best price for their trip? Technically, I won't be able to directly link them to the results I've found. Instead, I'd have to walk them through exactly what search/browse/filter criteria to use and hope that their result set is no different than mine.
Perhaps Orbitz should be allowed to do this. After all, it is their site. At the same time, however, consumers should voice their annoyance at being so inconvenienced. Just a quick email to their customer service department telling them "I'd love to use your site to find the best travel information I can, however, I find the TOS too restrictive for my needs and will be using Travelocity instead. I felt it important to inform you of this loss of business in the hopes that you will one day revise your TOS to allow deep linking for personal use."
</ramble%gt;
Ahh, until their webmonkeys forget to put out the robots.txt file...
;)
I'm afraid they remembered: http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt
Oops, I just violated the Orbitz TOS. How careless of me.
It's my website. Legally, and morally, you have no right to use it, any more than you have the right to use my toilet if I leave my house unlocked.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Or maybe, Legality of 'Deep Linking' Remains Deeply Complicated
BTW, anyone who reads this post owes me $20, that's my TOS.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
Here's my opinion:
First, Orbitz should be allowed to do whatever they want. This includes prohibiting deep linking.
Second, Orbitz should not be allowed to legally enforce anything that doesn't have a signed contract behind it.
These two combine to form what I think is the correct set of possibilities. Orbitz can yell and scream as much as they like. If they really want to, they can even implement technical restrictions. It's almost trivial to prevent deep linking with a technical solution; embed a unique, expiring identifier into every URL. If you want to get really draconian, tie it to the incoming IP address, or a cookie, etc. Problem solved. What they cannot do is allow deep linking on a technical level but then sue people for doing it.
I believe that disallowing people from sending a correct request to your web server and retrieving a correct response is utterly bogus and the law should come down on the side of the requester.
However, I don't know how the law actually is, I just think that's how it should be.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Their pop-up/under ads are exactly why I have never been to their web site nor will ever use it. Even their TV commercials were annoying. I guess this latest "policy" sounds like business as usual.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
Alternatively send this to corpcom@orbitz.com
Sirs,
I refer to the text of your Terms and Conditions as attached below.
My question to you is how do you intend to enforce these conditions since,
1. To read them someone must go to your site and find them.
2. You cannot dictate what any internet user puts on their own website, this is called the right to free speech and is embodied in almost every constitution in the world, even if some countries seem determined to undermine it with legislation.
and
3. A simple search on Google using the words Orbitz and Terms comes up with deep links to your own site. Do you now intend to ask google to remove all those links therefore rendering your website unreachable by the majority of internet users.
Would it not be simpler for your web administrator to implement code changes to restrict access to only your home page based on the referrer value rather then trying a legalise approach which has no possibility of succeeding and will in fact only mean that you will lose customers.
I look forward to hearing your reply.
(Your name here)
Relavent T&C section :
Inbound Links
We welcome links from a third party site to the home page of our Site, through a plain text link, provided that (a) you give Orbitz prior written notice of such link by contacting Orbitz Customer Service, to request Orbitz's permission to establish the link; (b) you discontinue providing a link to our Site if so requested by Orbitz; (c) you do not imply in any fashion that Orbitz is endorsing any of your products or service or is affiliated with you, (d) you do not present Orbitz in a false light, or provide misleading or false information about Orbitz, or its Site or Services, (e) you do not remove or obscure the copyright notices, or other notices on this Site; (f) you do not use any Mark of Orbitz; and (g) you do not replicate, frame or mirror the content of the Site. We reserve the right to require you to remove links to the Site, in our sole discretion. Linking to any page of the Site other than to the homepage is strictly prohibited in the absence of a separate linking agreement with Orbitz.
- American
- Continental
- Delta
- Northwest
- United
Travelocity is a SABRE company. Expedia is the Microsoft controlled travel site.You mean this link:- http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt?
:-P
Afraid they can't sue me for that. I've never visited their site (except for pop up ads which I didn't give permission for), so I haven't agreed to their silly EULA.
That was so much fun, I think I'll do it again. http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!!
Neh neh nyeah-nyeah neh!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
What happens if you violate the terms and conditions by deep linking into their site? They terminate your account and you can't give your money to them? OH well. Problem self-solved.
If they don't want to get linked at all, they should switch from HTML to PDF or publish all pages in a single MSWord document. That's it.
The WWW was designed to allow for links from one document to the other. It is neither possible nor netiquette to prohibite that. Dumb bitches.
"Those are two instances which are clearly not in the best interests of Orbitz. However, what about more mundane uses? Perhaps I want to help a friend find the best price for their trip? Technically, I won't be able to directly link them to the results I've found. Instead, I'd have to walk them through exactly what search/browse/filter criteria to use and hope that their result set is no different than mine."
No, you wouldn't -- just e-mail your friend the link and don't worry about it.
It seems clear to me that Orbitz put this into place so that they have the grounds to go after others that are putting permanent deep links on their web sites. They're going after the aforementioned competitors, et al., and not you.
"Perhaps Orbitz should be allowed to do this. After all, it is their site. At the same time, however, consumers should voice their annoyance at being so inconvenienced. Just a quick email to their customer service department telling them "I'd love to use your site to find the best travel information I can, however, I find the TOS too restrictive for my needs and will be using Travelocity instead. I felt it important to inform you of this loss of business in the hopes that you will one day revise your TOS to allow deep linking for personal use.""
I'm not sure what the point of this would be, other than to get attention. If you want to send a link to a friend, do it. Their TOS hasn't been written for the purposes of what you're doing. No need to be a martyr.
In case I'm not being clear, here's a similar example. I run a web site which has a TOS that states that we have the right to bounce accounts for excessive profanity and various other naughty things. Now, this does not mean that we're running a profanity filter and proactively bouncing anybody who utters the random "fuck." The TOS is in place so that we have a clearly defined right to bounce people who are being obnoxious. If somebody were to send me an e-mail similar to yours -- "I would like to use your site but since you won't let me use profanity I'll go somewhere else instead" -- I would rightfully point out that they were being a moron.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
I've always wondered if 404's count as a deep link.
!
Look at me orbitz!!!
http://www.orbitz.com/global/I'm%20deep%20linking
I'll expect my summons in the mail.
Actually, It does not matter if you sign the agreement because there is no exchange of value. If there is no exchange of value, a contract is not legally binding. The problem is that Orbitz wants to have their cake and eat it too. Too Bad for them!
Could Orbitz claim that their URLs are their intellectual property, and forbid anyone else from using that property
Which makes absolutely no sense because there is no such legal entity as "Intellectual Property".
Perhaps you meant to sugest that theur URLs were copyrighted?
Perhaps you meant to sugest that theur URLs were patented?
Perhaps you meant to sugest that theur URLs were trade secrets?
Perhaps you meant to sugest that theur URLs were trademarks?
Well copyright fails because a URL is a peice of factual information, just like some street address. You cannot copyright factual information. So that doesn't work.
Patents fail because, well, a URL isn't an invention. So that doesn't work.
Trade secrets doesn't work because the moment they allow members of the public to ever see the URL is ceases to be a trade secret. So that doesn't work.
Trademark doesn't work because by using the URL you are not deceptively engaging in commerce under that trademark or otherwise confusing the public. So that doesn't work.
Intellectual Property is a really really rotten term. In any discussion using the term Intellectual Property the probably of someone missunderstanding the law rapidly aproaches 1.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I know of a case from the Netherlands where newspaper editors wanted to prohibit deep linking to their sites. The judge did not honor the request.
IMHO you can link to whatever you want on the Internet. There are enough ways to prevent your content being accessed by unauthorized people. The content provider is the only one responsible for its authorization management.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!
!hoD
There are laws about "unauthorized" use of computer resources. Cite 18 U.S.C. 1030.
/is/ overboard here.
And that's what US Federal Law actually is. I agree with you -- US law
Deep linking can run afoul of those laws.
So, oblige them, and DON'T DO IT. Indeed, remove all links. Link to other travel sites instead.
Just a suggestion.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
I liken a website to a public street, you have no real expectation privacy on the street, I don't think you should have much in the way of such on the web. The website is a public offering.
If I sat on the street, played guitar, I could not tell people passing by not to tell anyone about me, nor should they hum any tunes they heard me play.
Likewise with a website. If you don't want everyone to access it...don't put it out there.
They certainly shouldn't be able to sue you for nothing else but deep linking.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........