Slashdot Mirror
EULA Confusion w/ Used Copies of WoW?
They keep telling me they will not transfer an account. I keep telling them I do not want an account transferred, but want to create my own account. What appears to be the final answer is that 'an authentication key can only be used once, regardless of the number of owners.'
This is not stated anywhere in the EULA or Terms of Use. If it is, I have been unable to find it, and *Blizzard has repeatedly ignored my request that they identify where in the EULA or Terms of Use this is stated.*
I have the complete retail package, including the CD case with the Authentication Key. So what if it is has been used in the past? Whatever happened to the first-sale doctrine?
At one point, the Blizzard representative likened my request to buying an empty milk jug and returning to the store to demand more milk for free so I can use the jug. This is an incredibly inept analogy. What Blizzard is doing is allowing only the original purchaser of the jug to buy a refill; anyone else who happens to buy or be given the jug is prohibited from buying more milk to put in it.
Another item of interest is that the representative told me that they can not, for any reason, delete an account, not even at the account owner's request. The most they can do is to suspend the account. Unfortunately, that keeps a record of the Authentication Key in their system, preventing that key from ever being used again.
While the EULA expressly permits permanent transfer of ownership of the game to another person, nowhere does either the EULA or
the Terms of Use mention that such a transfer makes the game completely useless because Blizzard will not allow the new owner to use the game; the game cannot be played without an online account and a subscription to the service, and Blizzard
will not even allow the account to be created.
You might say the "easy" answer is to get the seller to give me the account info for the account he created. However, according to Blizzard's representative, not all of the original
account information can be modified. In fact, enough would be unchangable that the original owner of the account would be able to regain control of the account at any time, should he
desire to do so.
I had no expectation that a used copy of the game would be such a problem. After all, even all of Blizzard's previous games (Warcraft 2, Starcraft, BroodWar) had keys that could be used and passed on while maintaining the reasonable restriction that only one instance of the key could be used
at any one time. (I have never bought or played Warcraft 3, so I do not know about it.) In fact, I bought my copy of Starcraft used and never had any trouble with it.
I am not trying to cheat Blizzard out of anything. I *want* to pay them for a monthly subscription so I can play the game, but they will not allow it solely because at some point in the past someone else has used what is now my copy of the game.
So here's a warning to everyone out there; be very careful if you are thinking about buying a used copy of World of Warcraft. You may have a complete and legitimate set of all the game materials, but you will not be able to play it.
For all the lawyers, and the many IANALs, out there, what do you think of the chances of a lawsuit succeeding to change Blizzard's stance on this? Would anyone else be interested in taking this on with me?"
A question that comes to mind is whether the seller fulfilled all three parts of the Termination clause, section 5 of the EULA. If the seller failed to notify Blizzard of intention to terminate, it could be argued that the seller's licenses remain in effect and thus new license could not be given to the buyer of the used game. But one would hope Blizzard's customer service would at least make this clear to the buyer.
Considering how difficult it is right now to find a new copy of WoW this could be a major issue.
For those not in the know, at least for a time, Blizzard pulled from the shelves new copies of WoW and stopped shipping due to server load issues.
I know of more than one person who was unable to get a copy for several weeks because of this.
#include sig.h
One thing left to do: Get your money back from the seller.
Maybe Blizzard just never expected anyone to RTFEULA.
:)
3B. You may permanently transfer ownership of the Game and all parts thereof, and all of your rights and obligations under the License Agreement, to another by physically transferring the CD-ROM, all original packaging, and all Manuals or other documentation associated with the Game, and by removing from all of your home or personal computers and destroying any remaining materials concerning the Game in your possession or control, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this License Agreement. The transferor (i.e., you), and not the Licensor, agrees to be solely responsible for any taxes, fees, charges, duties, withholdings, assessments, and the like, together with any interest, penalties, and additions imposed in connection with such transfer.
It appears that you can indeed sell your game, provided you removed anything related to the game, which I think, includes the deactivation of the Authentication Key by the seller, maybe they haven't created the Deactivation Section yet
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
I guess the new policy is:
The key IS the game.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Every MMO has CD keys that are forever associated with a given account. If you wanted to reuse a key you would have to be given the original account and change the bank information for billing purposes. This is no shocker to most people.
How do you expect them to actually release a CD key? The way these games work is you can come back to it later and renew your account if you wish. How can they renew their account if the key has been released for reuse?
The place you bought it from owes you a refund. Most stores I go to now won't buy back any game that has a CD key tied to online play/accounts.
$49.99
Pretty steep for a game you have to pay monthly to play too.
My wife and I would be playing it if it weren't for the $100 initial cost.
Actually the Key IS the game -- or more specifically the ACCOUNT.
One key can ever create ONE account. If you get the account name and password to go along with that used CD key, you are in business.
As I understand it, Blizzard representatives cannot cancel any user's account even with their consent. However, it is possible to cancel one's account through the online account management site. Would cancelling your account in this way 'free up' the authentication key? If so, is it the previous owner's responsibility then to delete their account?
Assuming this is the case, then if the previous owner didn't delete their account, they have effectively ripped you off.
the answer is clear. sue them. you know that is what they would do to you if you violated the End User Agreement.
New copes of the game can be hard to find. I know that (as recently as last month) Blizzard wasn't moving any more retail copies because the game had become too popular and there were (are?) server issues.
I'm not sure if the poster was unable to find a new copy, or simply wanted to save a couple of bucks. Regardless, it seems like this kind of thing should be legal according to Blizzard's own EULA.
I guess I'm not surprised he's getting the run around from Customer Support, though. IMHO Blizzard has fallen a long way from it's lofty perch before the original owners were bought out..
"This is not stated anywhere in the EULA or Terms of Use"
It is, Usually, in the part that says that any situation not specified in the EULA, will be decided in an unilateral fashion by the Company in question. Usually, when you agree with this kind of "contracts", you are actually agreeing to pay an ammount, in orther to be able to do what the company eventually decides that you can do.
My recomendation?, learn to be happy with tuxrace.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
You're out of luck, because as we all know, EULAs are not legally binding. Thanks for playing! :)
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
First off, it's a $49.99 game. Secondly, the game is not available in stores due to Blizzard's cutting back on new users due to server issues. Considering the lack of availability of the game in stores, a used copy that someone doesn't want after having tried it should still have value.
I for one and sick and tired of software companies bullying their consumers around. I should be able to return software. I should be able to sell software I purchased to other people. I should be able to run games that already have cd-keys for online-only play without requiring that I keep the CD in the drive while playing!
Get a cow. It won't mind if you take an empty milk jug to it and demand more milk from it every day.
Your cow won't judge you.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I'm sorry if I'm asking the obvious here, but would you be willing to mail me a check for $20.00? I mean, you've got a lot of other monthly costs, so it's not like it's that much money.
=)
You bought a used copy, therefore you are transferring ownership from one person or entity to another. This logic does not apply to a retail store, because the ownership is not being transferred as the auth key is unused.
A stupid analogy would be buying used milk. If you bought the milk used from someone other than grocery store and it expired prior to the "best before" date, it is not the groceries store or the milk producers responsibility for the bad milk.
The only thing I see here is that you are using biased reasoning to justify your disgust at a fundamentally flawed licensing scheme.
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
How hard can it be? Okay you buy a "used" CD so they don't give you a month's free subscription but force you to pony up $19 immediately.
Even if you assume that this guy just pirated a copy of WOW that's pure revenue to them for each new user.
What's to gain by binding one key to one CD? You want to bind it to one PAYING USER.
Somebody hasn't thought this through and just threw the usual boiler plate out into the EULA and said "ship it!"
Saying, "just buy a new copy" is all well and nice in retrospect, but doesn't help this guy since he hass already bought a used copy. Also, the question, as posed, was not about how he could play the game but about whether Blizzard are ignoring/breaking the terms of their own EULA.
It's a much bigger question than just "buy a new copy"
There haven't been server queues for weeks. I'm on one of the more populated servers from release day, and I haven't noticed any problems in a long time.
Can you march down to your local courthouse and file a small claims lawsuit? Your argument seems pretty solid. They would probably give in to avoid the lawsuit that might cost them thousands.
This seems like the perfect test case for the enforceability of a shrinkwrap EULA in the hands of an ordinary consumer. Previous cases have observed that, where portions of the game require additional "agreement" clicks, such licenses can be enforced, but I have not found any case yet which states that the individual purchasor is bound by a eula he is unable to read until after the sale.
There have been cases which indicate that software licenses in general are just fine, even if they limit rights granted under ordinary copyright law. What does not appear to have been examined is whether these license agreements fall into the realm of state contract law. If such were the case, then different states might have different consumer protection rules.
But then again, I am not your lawyer, and this is just an observation, not legal advice. If you like, feel free to contact me. You can find out how in my profile.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
Blizzard should try to get this fixed fast. Unlike most other types of games, where all the money the developer will realize is paid up front, most of the money from MMORPGs is made over the long run. By making it harder to transfer CD-keys, Blizzard is depriving themselves of the monthly fees that the user would otherwise already be paying: $20-$50 up front vs. $10-$13 a month... after a little while, the price paid at retail starts to seem pretty small, especially since many players get hooked and have difficulty quitting.
Actually, you don't want free milk in the jug your friend gave you, you want to *pay* for the milk, you just don't want to pay for the jug.
I think the solution to all of this stupidity is for the bozon game companies to stop charging an up-front purchase price for games that require a subscription.
Why don't they also charge a "disposal fee" when you cancel for crying out loud.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
You've already created an account with that CD key. You use the same account you created before your hard drive crashed. Now if Blizzard's hard drives crash, you might have other problems... :-)
1. Between you and seller, the seller would be in breach of contract. [i.e. a total failure of consideration - that is you did not get what you paid for]
2. Blizzard may be in breach of their license with the seller. [i.e. by not allowing the seller to transfer the game according to clause 3B]
My advice to you. Just get a refund off the seller then go buy an original copy.
Blizzard has already posted about this kind of issue:
n =b lizzard-archive&t=13&p=1&tmp=1#post13
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?f
You, sir, are SOL. Sorry.
Hah.
Every MMO launched to date has a single-shot CD-key used to create an account. That means that the used game is worthless. The CD is unprotected and the contents are fairly easily obtainable. Only thing worth anything is the CD-Key, and that's good for only one use.
Yes, you could sell the game AND the account, but in WoW's case this is forbidden by EULA. You can whine all you want, but if they somehow allowed the re-use of the CD-Key, that would allow basically unlimited accounts out of one box. And whoever controls the account can play the game - box not required.
Don't buy used MMOs (returned/repackaged/'slightly used'). Any store with half a brain don't take returns of MMOs as once the key has been digged out of the box and copied down, the rest of the box/CD/Etc is quite worthless. CD-Key theft out of boxes in store shelves is a growing problem - many clueless salesdroids dont understand how the bunch of numbers on the paper is the only valuable bit of the game box, so if you buy an opened box, you risk getting a dud that may be painful to return. How do you prove you didn't use the key yourself?
Now is selling of such 'one-shot' products fine, trampling on the 'first sale' principle? That's whole another discussion. WoW is doing it just like every other game in the genre. And just about every single other game forbids sale of accounts. Others allow the sale of account + box together (only), but such trades are high-risk.
For example, in Dark Age of Camelot, whoever knows the 'secret word' inputted at character creation can at any time take ownership of the account (change PW, change any other details) by calling game billing support hotline. So even if you get the CDs, the box, the (worthless) CD-key, the user account and the password, if you don't know that you ALSO need a secret word (and you need to change it promptly by calling the company), your account can be taken back by the original owner, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Blizzard is just taking the easiest route - if you your account/password ends up in wrong hands, they wash their hands. Sale of accounts is not allowed, and basically whoever controls the username/PW 'owns' the account, and if you complain about account sale/trade issues, they just ban the account as account sales are not allowed. And yes, the box, the CD-Key and the media is totally useless and worthless once the account has been created.
Another thing about WoW. I had a problem where they refused to cancel my account for a month after I cancelled it online. They basically said that cancelling it online isn't good enough to actually cancel the account. You need to call them and make sure they close it and it probably wouldnt be a bad idea to get some form of receipt.
This key is bound to an existing (probably now suspended, due to quitting) account, with billing information and personal details attached. Of course you can't use that key again.
However, you now have a perfectly legal copy of the game (even according to their EULA, which must be a first for a MMO game), without a functioning key. The solution is obvious: Have them send you a replacement key.
They lose nothing, you don't have someone else's baggage, and it should be standard procedure for when a retail key is compromised by store clerks or a 'friend'.
...a discussion about EULAs came up in the thread with the Microsoft guy. My contention then was some legal dept wrote it a decade ago and much of it is boilerplate the no one reads. You're just providing an example for my argument.
:-)
In this case, it wasn't YOU that didn't read it, it was the Blizzard guys. EULAs have gotten out of hand. Many of them have language in there that doesn't pertain to anything related with the product at all. It is in there because no one wants to pay the lawyer another couple hours of billing time to review any modifications.
You are SOL and your only real option is to get your money back from where you bought the game. If you do decide to hire a lawyer and go after Blizzard, expect to pay the lawyer 1000x the difference in the used/new prices of the box -- and probably not get anywhere.
It would be fun, though, if I won the lotto. Blizzard has proven themselves nothing but a bunch of dicks over their treatment of FreeCraft/Ale and the alternative server networks. I'd love to have the money to fuck them over with their own legalese.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
If it only makes sense that the key can only be used once, why does blizzard go out of there way to explicitely state in the EULA that the physical media can be resold?
Doesn't this fill your heart with hate? Why don't we all call Blizzard and tell them how we feel about it?
Actually it can't, I just tried that. There's fine print that says you have to buy a new set of retail cds and enter that key.
Could now be the time that we finally get to test this idea in court? If a company must argue that they are not legally bound by the terms of their own EULA it could set a precedent allowing customers to argue the same thing.
1. Imagine this from Blizzard's point of view. Someone calls up with your story. What do you think their position will be? Software companies must defend their best interests, and willfully going along with any request and any likely story could open them up to all kinds of abuses.
2. I may be wrong, but I don't think the lack of mention of something in a EULA implies that the buyer has such a usage right.
3. A lawsuit for such a small amount seems a little bit of an overreation. I would discuss it with the seller and see if he/she is willing to refund your money, and if not (and I would hardly expect it), just chalk it up as a lesson learned. I'm not sure how old you are, but I've lived long enough to know friends who have learned far more expensive lessons than this. I agree that it sucks, but consider yourself lucky to some extent.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
Simple.
The distributor gets the cash out of the box sales.
If accounts were free, or available from online, there would be no distribution of the box version. No distributor wants to touch a game that is available online cheaper (or even at same price, but 'easier').
And stupid people won't consider games they can't buy as a box from a store. No store visibility = way less subscribers.
Only when the game is dead as a doorknob as 'store boxed version', the sale / giveaway of accounts beings.
Basically they are feeding Vivendi Universal or whoever handles the distribution. VU has to get mucho money, so VU can be bothered to put the game on shelves, on magazine pages etc.
Yes, the whole store/boxes/crap model is outdated. I'd happily pay real money for games if I could actually download them at launch day, instead of waiting for ages for the stupid boxes to ship and arrive to stores. I paid for HL2, mostly because they allowed this. Yeah, steam is 'bad' or 'crappy' or whatever, but at least it works. I got the game on launch day, not a week late (hint: I don't live in the US), and I got it at a same price as the US customers got (no extra taxes, duties, shipping costs and other crap).
What makes him so damn special is that he is following the License Agreement to the letter. Blizzard fucking told him he could do this, and then when he tried to they ignored the issue and gave him a round about analogy that does not apply to his situation, much like your windows + cd key analogy.
Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.
Use the time honored and honed by my youth trick of just returning it to Wal-Mart and saying the disk will not load. They give you an exact copy, you keep it, or return the unopened copy at another store for money or credit. Ahhh fond memories of youthful schenanigans.
Home of the midwest loser - www.say-10.net
You must not have read the whole post. What is utterly ridiculous here is how Blizard is not abiding by their own EULA.
Say you bought WoW and decided you really didn't like it, so you sold it to your friend. Assume no copies made and everything is done according to the EULA. You have no intention of playing again, and your friend wants to use your old copy to play himself. When he activates his, your account should be disabled. Problem solved.
What is happening here is like the RIAA saying you can buy the CD from the store, when you are done with it you can sell it to a friend or a used CD store, but they still won't be able to listen to it.
Blizard is in the wrong here. If they did not want people selling/giving their old copies to others, they should not have allowed it according to the EULA. The OP is not asking to have a second account active on the same CD key, he is asking to have a single account active on the CD key, with the old one being disabled.
Jeremy
Get a cow. It won't mind if you take an empty milk jug to it and demand more milk from it every day.
According to this analogy, it's against the law to refill Blizzard's jugs from your own cow. Blizzard v. bnetd.
Have you tried contacting the EFF? My hunch is they're looking for a test case.
Blizzard's customer service tends to be shaky at best, however you can get a new CD-key. Blizzard has a system in place to deal with stolen CD-keys. Treat this as a situation where you CD-key was stolen or non-functional. Do not tell them anything about wanting to transfer ownership of a CD-key. Keep it simple and tell them only what they need to know. Blizzard honestly doesn't care about what their EULA or packaging says. They do things their way and if the package promised something that wasn't in the game they will tell you tough luck.
l 0641p
#1) I recently purchased a copy of World of Warcraft
#2) When I try to sign up for an account the CD-key says it is already used
#3) I have the original CD-case with the CD-key sticker on it and read on your site I can mail them in to get a new CD-key
Remember the Diablo II players are famous for their acts of stupidity. They regularly get their CD-keys and accounts stolen. So if you just play the dumb "It says someone else has my CD-key and I don't know why" and then cite their CD-key replacement policy they should do it for you. If they tell you to return it to the store just tell them "the store doesn't take returns" and "it was the only copy I could find."
You may not be too keen on deceit, but honestly this is the only way blizzard will do anything. While they are fine about jerking around people who buy used copies of the game they will be much less eager to screw over someone who they think bought a new copy of the game that doesn't work.
More information about the process:
http://www.blizzard.com/support/?id=aal
Read the Terms of Use. The EULA allows the transfer of the GAME, but nowhere does it allow the transfer of the SERVICE.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
I happen to read the EULA for Max Payne, and it said according to the agreement, the ONLY (the word they specifically used) thing I could use the physical CD for was as an archival backup of the software. Sadly, the game required me to have the CD in the drive while playing it, so essentially the only way to play the game is either to bread the EULA or to install a NOCD crack, which would of course be against the DMCA's anti-circumvention provision.
And the industry wonders why EULA's are ignored.
It is quite hillarious:
A. Rules Related to User Names. Each user will select a user name for his or her character, or allow the World of Warcraft software to select the name for him or her. Additionally, users may form "guilds" and such guilds will be required to choose a name for the guild. When you choose a user name, create a guild, or otherwise create a label that can be seen by other players of World of Warcraft, you must abide by the following guidelines as well as the rules of common decency. If Blizzard Entertainment, in its sole discretion, finds such a label to be offensive, it reserves the right to change the name, remove the label and corresponding chat room, and/or suspend your use of World of Warcraft.
In particular, you may not use:
1. Names of another person with the intent to impersonate that person;
2. Names which incorporate 'swear' words or which are otherwise offensive, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
3. Names subject to the rights of any other person without authorization;
4. Names of popular culture or media personalities;
5. Names that are trademarks, or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment or other companies);
6. Names of religious deities or figures;
7. Names of characters from Blizzard Entertainment's Warcraft products, including character names from the Warcraft series of novels; or
8. Names related to drugs, narcotics, or criminal activity, including references to drug substances; or
9. Name comprised of partial or complete sentences (e.g., "Inyourface", "Welovebeef", etc);
10. Names comprised of pure gibberish (eg, "Asdfasdf", "Jjxccm", "Hvlldrm");
11. Names that refer to pop culture icons or personas (e.g. "Britneyspears", "Austinpowers", "Batman")
12. Names that utilize "Leet" or "Dudespeak" (e.g., "Roflcopter", "xxnewbxx", "Roxxoryou")
13. Name that incorporate titles. The term "Titles" as used herein shall include 'rank' titles (e.g. , "CorporalTed," or "GeneralVlad") and/or fantasy titles (e.g., "KingMike", "LordSanchez")
Additionally, you may not use a misspelling or an alternative spelling to circumvent the name restrictions listed above, nor can you have a "first" and "last" name that, when combined, violate the above name restrictions.
I especially like the dudespeak one and "lordsanchez"
This is definitely one of the stupidest posts Slashdot has ever seen....
;) By the way, you do not get free refills of the jug if you are the original owner. Not unless you pay for a lifetime of free re-fills. Again, the original poster is just for lack of a better word, insane.
If you check the terms of use page linked in the OP, you can plainly see near the top:
1. Establishment of Your World of Warcraft Account.
A. You may establish one (1) user account ("Account") with which to play World of Warcraft by accessing Blizzard Entertainment's proprietary on-line service ("Service"), pursuant to the terms, conditions and restrictions contained in this Agreement.
as well as section 1-E:
E. Blizzard Entertainment does not recognize the transfer of Accounts between individuals.
I don't see how this person has any right whatsoever to have a new account registered for a CD key that already has an account registered with it.... it just doesn't make ANY sense. By that train of thought, one person could buy the game then hand it along to every person he knows, letting each new person register a new account and bypassing the purchase price of the game itself.... no sense whatsoever.
I do think relating it to buying a milk jug and expecting free refills on an empty jug is pretty funny though.
It's not even fine print, it is clearly stated when creating the account using the trial key that you will have to purchase the retail game in order to continue playing once the trial period is up.
I'd post a screenshot of the registration process if I actually felt refuting your fine print comment was worth the time....
I stopped buying Blizzard games for this reason. I still like StarCraft though - but after they shutdown FreeCraft and/or the Battlenet server project, I made myself a promise to never give them another cent.
Slashdot is certainly a place to be heard - but sometimes you have to make a statement with your wallet.
I would FU*(#@$_ING love to see a boycott of Blizzard -
The right to transfer ownership of the tangible expression of a copyrighted work is fundamental to our system of intellectual property ownership: 17 U.S.C. sec. 109 (2000). I don't quote this provision to suggest that Blizzard is breaking the law, simply that the right to alienate (essentially a fancy legal term for "sell") your copy of a copyrighted work is enshrined in United States law (and in fact, is generally recognized throughout the world).
So what is Blizzard doing here? It is denying the initial purchaser of the game the right to sell his or her copy (who am I kidding? His) copy of the game in the open marketplace. The initial purchaser of the game agreed to Blizzard's End User Licensing Agreement (EULA) when he first started playing. (Of course, the legal enforceability of these EULAs is somewhat murky -- different states have different laws, although UCITA is the most common attempt to make EULAs enforceable.) Blizzard's argument is that it and its customer entered into an enforceable contract. Both sides gave consideration and both sides agreed to perform certain actions and to give the other side certain rights in exchange for either money or a service provided.
Now Blizzard (at least according to the poster) is attempting to renege on its side of the bargain, while still (presumably) insisting that the purchaser abide by all terms and conditions.
A couple of additional thoughts:
First, don't argue with front-line customer service. Get in touch with Blizzard corporate headquarters or other supervisory personnel. Recognize that, while you are probably correct, it's likely an issue of first impression under the new WoW system and as a pioneer, you're likely to get a slow response.
Second, make sure that the initial owner of the game took the proper steps to terminate his account before he sold it to you.
Third, recognize that Blizzard is perfectly correct to be suspicious of someone claiming that, simply because you have the key, it should terminate an existing account. Respect their view on this because it's a world of hurt for them if they wrongly start terminating accounts. I can easily foresee them asking someone five times "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO PERMANENTLY DELETE THIS ACCOUNT? ARE YOUR SURE YOU'RE SURE?" and then getting a complaint the next day that their account isn't working. They really are in a no-win situation.
Fourth, while yes, I am a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer. Nothing in this post should be construed as providing legal advice.
Finally, Blizzard needs to get on the ball and recognize when they are wrong. This sounds like a cluck-up. (But then again, first line support people aren't supposed to be interpreting legal documents.) I'm guessing this is more a matter of getting this issue in front of someone with the authority to make it right.
Because [to my knowledge] it's illegal to forbid it.
good point ... why on earth does the game cost anything when it is subscription based?
if you are planning to pay the monthly subscription can you not just download the game installer for free?
So, according to this logic, if my computer dies and I buy a new one I should not be able to install my very expensive software on this new computer? That isn't a good idea. There is no way I will pay a few hundred dollars for software and not be able to install it if I ever get a new computer. The lifespan of modern computers isn't that high. People upgrade their computers way too much for a scheme like this to work.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
You should have told them that you bought a new copy of WoW, and the key is used...goddamn pirates and their keygen programs....
And when you buy sheets for your bed, you shouldn't be able to put them on other beds, without going to jail.
And when you buy a suit with two pairs of pants, you should go to jail if you try to wear one of those pairs of pants with a different jacket.
And if you buy a book, it should explode and blind anyone else who reads it.
Pretty much the retail price is a deposit on your first month, plus the cost of CD manufacture, manual printing, and retail box manufacture.
That's total bull, since if that were the case there would be no reason for them to charge me for a second one when both my wife and myself wanted to play... I could just pay them a second monthly fee and install from the CDs I already had.
Not only that, but The manufacturing costs are signifigantly lower than $35 ($50 minus the first month).
'm pretty sure thats the going rate for retail MMO games these days.
Than that rate is too high, and I won't be playing any of those games.
IAAL, too. I hope you are lying about being a lawyer though, since your research skills are lacking. I'll leave it to you to find ProCD Inc. v. Zeidenberg, 86 F.3d 1447 (7th Cir. 1996), reversing 908 F.Supp. 640 (W.D. Wis. 1996). BTW, I'm guessing you're a law student, not a lawyer (yet). Am I right?
The easier answer is that the game costs because people are willing to pay. Blizzard set the price at a point that they felt would maximize their profits. There was enough demand for the game that lots and lots of people were willing to shell out $50.00. People who already have 50 bucks invested in the game are more likely to keep their subscription going then those who have little or nothing invested. Considering all that, why the heck would Blizzard give it away?
Sec. 13 - "This License Agreement shall be deemed to have been made and executed in the State of California without regard to conflicts of law provisions, and any dispute arising hereunder shall be resolved in accordance with the law of California. You agree that any claim asserted in any legal proceeding by one of the parties against the other shall be commenced and maintained in any state or federal court located in the State of California, County of Los Angeles, having subject matter jurisdiction with respect to the dispute between the parties."
Somebody really needs to teach you guys the BASICS of the US legal system...Totally, completely, utterly wrong.
From the XP Pro EULA:
Transfer to Third Party. The initial user of the Product may make a one-time transfer of the Product to another end user. The transfer has to include all component parts, media, printed materials, this EULA, and if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity. The transfer may not be an indirect transfer, such as a consignment. Prior to the transfer, the end user receiving the transferred Product must agree to all the EULA terms.
on my server (frostwolf), at least, they tried to compensate for the bugginess and downtime by giving us a free week on top of what we've already paid for - doesn't totally make up for it, but at least they're trying...
Choose your future, choose life...
But why would I want to do a thing like that?
Since the parent didn't provide proof, here's the relevant passage (it's the fourth paragraph):
"SOFTWARE Backup or Archiving. After You install the SOFTWARE into the permanent memory of a computer, You may keep and use the original disk(s) and/or CD-ROM (the "Storage Media") only for backup or archival purposes."
...and it doesn't hold water. The monthly fee is for maintenance of the systems and resources you continue to use and the base code still cost something to develop. I've seen places that give away the client code for free and wasn't that impressed (Lineage, Jumpgate) compared to something that cost money like EQ or Dark Age of Camelot.
That's like saying you should get a co-located computer for free because you're paying $49.95 a month for bandwidth. There is still an initial investment cost.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Interesting... you are correct that transfer of an authentication key is not expressly prohibited anywhere in the EULA or terms of use. Of course, it is not expressly allowed, either. In fact, searching the WoW support site, I find no mention anywhere of their position on transfer of ownership, except that they say you cannot sell an account to someone else. As you've pointed out, you only want to create a new account. I think the problem is that they don't explicitly point out anywhere that once an authentication key has been used to create an account, it is permanently associated with that account. Accounts are not deleted when a person cancels their subscription, at least not for a fairly long period of time. This way, if a person wants to come back later and play again, they can keep their characters. I suspect that whoever you bought the game from will need to go through some special process to get their account permanently deleted before you can create a new one with the auth key.
This is not just a WoW issue. Many MMORPGs are doing this. For example I bought a new copy of City of Heros for my fiance. The tape didn't look quite right on the box, but the guy at the register swore that it had not been returned and it was thier only copy so I bought it. When I opened it everything did look new so I didn't think anything more of it at first. When we tried to set up her account though we ran into the problem of the key having been used. Atleast with them though I quick fax of the key and my reciept and we had a new key e-mailed within a day.
Actually, I get the idea this system of suspending accounts rather than deleting them is commonplace with these MMORPGs. This certainly isn't unique to Blizzard and WoW.
... but she simply had billing xferred to a new card and re-activated her game, and kept on playing.
I understand the reasoning behind it, but it can cause some irritating situations too.
EG. My ex-wife was a big Shadowbane addict for a few months preceding our divorce. She was using an account I created initially. (I'm the one who bought the game, played it for about 30 minutes, and decided I didn't like it after all. I let her try it, and she got hooked immediately - and begged me to buy her a 3 month subscription after that.) The interesting thing is, though, I couldn't seem to find any way to get Ubisoft to permanently erase her account after she moved out. I was able to sign on to the web site and deactivate the account, so she couldn't keep billing renewals to my credit card
Somehow, it doesn't seem right I wasn't even able to have her characters deleted on an account she effectively hijaacked from me - and now I still keep getting email notifications about her activities in the game (purchases of expansion sets, tech. support help, etc. etc.).
All I had to do was allow the beta to automatically patch itself and I'm still running it fine.
A little bit more on topic: why on earth are people still paying for used boxes of this? I was reading reports about this exact complaint in early december when guys had tried the game for a day and hated the opening-day lag.
Blizzard isn't ripping you (OP) off, the guy that willingly sold you an unusable product key has; you're totally letting him get away with it by ignoring his role in the act!
::jafomatic
No, of course not - because it's been proven that there are plenty of idiots that will pay it. And they'll even pay it to a bunch of litigious, greedy bastards like the ones at Blizzard.
I wish people would pay attention and stop supporting companies when they turn into fucktards like Blizzard seems to have done. It seems there is a pattern that a many software companies tend to follow, wherein they build up a certain number of loyal customers or market share, and then they start doing everything they can to gouge their customers and treat them like dogshit. Lawsuits against fans, bloggers, and others are common. And they tend to get away with it more often than not, when they should be bleeding customers left and right. I think Microsoft pretty much led this trend.
I'll give you a few examples. Companies that created excellent product, took good care of their customers, then turned evil when they got to the top of the heap:
Symantec (Norton)
Valve (steam???)
Intuit (check out Ed Foster's Blog)
Blizzard (case in point)
Macromedia (They're working on it)
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Subject to change.
Actually, in the city in which I live, retailers are required to accept a return, provided that:
1. The item is defective for reasons not caused by the customer, or the item is in new condition, or the item did not perform as expected. This is so vague that really, in any case short of the customer buying something and taking a sledgehammer to it, they have to take it back.
2. The retailer may set a "reasonable time frame" after which returns will not be accepted. Such time period must be communicated clearly to the customer and may be no less then two weeks unless the item is perishable and has a shorter shelf life then that.
3. The retailer must give the customer money back if the return is within these terms. While they can offer the OPTION of store credit/identical replacement, they may not state that this is all that they'll do.
In contrast (I found this out the hard way), a neighboring city only offers those remedies if the item is defective, and allows the store to stipulate identical-replacement only even in that case. I can certainly tell you which city I buy in now. So you can't say "In the US..." in this case, at all, because those matters are covered by state and local law, not in most cases federal.
That aside, however, the EULA in that box (all of them I've ever seen) SPECIFICALLY states that if you do not wish to accept it, you may return the software to the place of purchase for a full refund. The stores cannot claim to be ignorant of this fact, so, while IANAL, I should think that if the EULA is enforceable on the user, it is also enforceable on the selling store, who is aware of this obligation. And if it's unenforceable altogether...well, then we're all going to be happy, aren't we? But it's either a binding contract, and enforceable on all parties concerned, or a worthless piece of garbage with no enforceable value at all. But it is not worth something only when it is to the consumer's detriment, while being worthless when he wishes to invoke a clause that works to his advantage.
So, in response to your post, there are indeed LEGALLY MANDATED LEVELS of customer service. (See related topics of restaurant health and sanitation codes, false advertising regulations, laws against predatory sales tactics such as bait-and-switch, disclosure requirements of all kinds in countless situations, anti-discrimination laws, I could go on all day...)
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Gamecards come with an authorization key for creating an account. You can use anyone's install media to put the game on your computer. Game cards are $30 for 60 days of play time and can be extended by adding the code from a new game card. --C
"used copies of world of warcraft are worthless".
Indeed. There are games that not only provide the client for free, but give you some free time to try it out before you buy. The only good reason I can think of for doing this myself is that Blizzard knows they have their customer base by the short hairs and that their particular market will bear this kind of fee structure.
And the brethren went away edified.
Considering all that, why the heck would Blizzard give it away?
Well because A lot of people will continue to pay for it but i'm just not sure i would. Thats a 50 dollar gamble right there. Its truly a crapshoot if you think about it (you can always sell the game later on if it was a single player and recoupe your losses)
I was just hooked up with a 15 day free pass for COH the ONLY MMORPG i've ever considered buying and its quite awsome. SO awsome that i will continue to be charged 14.95 for the privlage of playing it. I am not going to give them 50 dollars for a useless cd and booklet. I'm not going to give their distibutor any money when MMORPG are the type of games YOU SELL DIRECTLY TO PEOPLE. Downloading the game only took me 2hrs on my broadband connection. I would of payed for the bandwith as well...because its not 50 dollars worth of bandwith at the end of the day.
If you cannot create a MMORPG that is stupid easy to pickup and play your going to dig yourself a early grave.
The secret to getting modded up is to allways say i've got karma to burn in your sig..
"if you are planning to pay the monthly subscription can you not just download the game installer for free?"
I imagine because a.) Demand is too high for their ability to supply. (i.e. They can only support so many users. b.) People are actually paying for it. In that case, it'd be stupid not to ask for it. c.) Maybe that's how they justify their current price of subscription. Sorta like how cell phones require a contract.
This is all academic, though. I don't know much about WoW.
"Derp de derp."
Back to the original poster: The account transfer policy seems to be the same as other MMO's. You can only transfer ownership of the account if all physical materials (Including CD key) are transferred with it. You cannot create a new account with it, but the person you're getting the copy from should have given you the login and password.
This is not about theft, but about the legal transfer of ownership expressly following the terms of the EULA.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Section 3-B includes transfer of the license, so section 5 does not apply. Section 5 only applies if you want to terminate the license, not transfer it.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
The creator/publisher/manufacturer got their cut for this instance of the product. When the original owner no longer wishes to use it, why shouldn't someone else be able to?
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Until I bought the game, I did not have access to read the EULA. Until I bought the game, I did not know the ToU existed or where to find it. Furthermore, there is nothing in either the EULA or the ToU that imposes the restriction that Blizzard is enforcing.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Who owns the key? The person who posses the physical document containing the key, unless that document were stolen, in which case the person it was stolen from.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
While I don't play WoW, I've been looking at buying a used one. I figured that the key issue would come up, so I did a little research on the WoW website, and found an interesting little entry.
a bl 01115p
http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowbilling/?id=
I'm not sure if it's useful, but hopefully it might spark some ideas.
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
Who said anything about eBay? Or PayPal, for that matter?
TFA doesn't say by what means the used software title was aquired, nor how payment was tendered.
For all we know, he traded a twelve-pack of beer for it with his next-door neighbor.
Get some sunshine. Ebay is not the only venue via which used items change hands.
Kid-proof tablet..
The same question keeps popping up about Half-Life 2 and Steam. By all rights, once we buy a game, we should be able to sell it to another person if we don't want the game. With Half-Life 2, anyone can buy the CD/DVD in the store and that same person can turn around and sell it to Joe Blow after they're done playing. Unfortunately, for Joe Blow, he's screwed, and the original person can keep on playing.
Valve tries to compensate by allowing you to send in $10 and some information. But, in the long run, you're boned either way.
This kind of thing is going to keep cropping up over and over as companies like Valve and Blizzard test just how far they can abuse consumers. With such a young, unknowledgeable and apathetic targetted market group, it's just going to get worse until someone looks over the EULA and finds some way to sue the companies.
Like someone once mentioned, companies simply don't like us selling our used games once we're done. I think there was even a lawsuit a long time ago about the used market for CD's. The premise was that since the CD's don't wear out like cartridges, that they are considered, "like-new," condition and the companies should receive their cut of the profits. That would mean that I would have to give a cut of the profits to American Greetings every time I purchased a MIB Strawberry Shortcake Doll from eBay. Damn flawed logic if you ask me.
Since /. received some flak in the past for having AC posts of Church of Scientology material, I was wondering about posting large chunks of EULAs. If I was to take large portions of EULAs and posted them up here for discussion (as some posters have already done), would I be infringing on copyrighted material?
Linux at home
http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowbilling/?id=abl 01115p
This might fix your problems, however if I read correctly, if you dont have a receipt you pay an extra 10USD
The problem is that a download-only game doesn't look as legitimate. When you buy something in the store, most people view that as more legitimate. They're more willing to give credit card information to that company instead of giving it to some company where you just downloaded a client.
The second issue is one of investment. Let's say someone buys a $50 box and take it home. If that person finds the game to be confusing at first, they are generally going to stick with it. They don't want to believe that their $50 is wasted. On the other hand, if you pay $10.95 for the same thing, you're usually much more willing to set it aside of it's a bit confusing at first.
My own game, Meridian 59 allows you to download the client for free and just pay a fairly low monthly subscription. We run into these two issues all the time since we're a small, relatively unknown company. People are (rightfully) scared to give out CC information, and this works against us. Plus, our game isn't a cookie-cutter D&D clone where you can just pick a race and class and go. It requires a bit of thought and is complex, which doesn't make for an easy newbie experience. Not significantly worse than other games, but the other games have the $50 investment to rely on.
Some information for you.
Have fun,
Brian "Psychochild" Green
MMO developer's blog