Grand Theft Auto Led Teen to Kill

Varg Vikernes writes "FOXNews reports on a lawsuit that claims the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' led a teenager to shoot two police officers and a dispatcher to death in 2003, mirroring violent acts depicted in the popular game. 'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,' attorney Jack Thompson told The Tuscaloosa News, which reported the suit's filing. Thompson is also filing suit against Wal-Mart, Gamestop, Take-Two and Sony." Gamespot has coverage of this story as well. Thompson has made something of a career out of lawsuits of this nature.

Comments

I'm pissed.

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

When will it be "Parents irresponsible with how they raised their child leads to deaths"?

When will the blame be placed where it belongs, with the people who's job is to raise this child until he is old enough to support himself?

What the hell happened to being responsible for your own actions?

If I ever rob someone at an ATM I'll sue NBC because I saw someone on Law & Order do it once.

What the FUCK is wrong with this country?

Re:I'm pissed.

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a point. But your headline could be tailored to the specific situation:

Parents allow video game to raise child

Seriously, I mean next thing you know we're going to start blaming homosexuality on Will and Grace. Give it a break people. Or rather, get a dining table and stop eating your freaking meals in front of your TV. It's a form of entertainment, not a shrine.

Re:I'm pissed.

[micromoog]

Unless you lock your kid in the basement, he's going to be raised, whether you like it or not, by plenty of other people.

But mainly you. You have to teach him to handle other influences appropriately; that's in fact your main job once the pooping/feeding part is self-sustaining. YOU have to equip him with the tools to differentiate right from wrong, reality from fantasy, exciting electronic offers from spam, etc.

Re:I'm pissed.

[dfenstrate]

What the FUCK is wrong with this country?

At this point, I think it's more fair to ask "What the fuck is wrong with this kid, and his parents?"

We know what's wrong with the lawyer. He has no ethics and thinks there's money to be made.

Now, if he consisently succeeds in winning these lawsuits, then we can ask what's wrong with this country. The answer is already ' a lot of things'

Re:I'm pissed.

[rwven]

Completely agreed. And even without the whole "Parent's raising" part of it (because parents seem to have a problem with that) what about the ridiculous legal system in this country actually holding the people responsible for their actions. I'm so sick of seeing guilt pawned off. It's nothing but a finger-pointing game.

In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery....now it's the company you work fors fault. lame. The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."

Re:I'm pissed.

[LurkerXXX]

Parents should be the strongest influence on letting their kids know what is right and wrong. I watched war movies all the time when I was a kid. I played cowboys and indians all the time. I've never gone to a reservation and shot some innocent native American.

The parents either did a crappy job raising him, or he was born with or developed a severe chemical imabalance, or he's just a bad guy. Either way, it's not the gaming companies fault. It's the kids and possibly his parents.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Decessus]

The problem with this response is it doesn't really address the issue. "There is only so much a parent can do". Sure there, but can you honestly say that parents are doing enough? The problems that are occuring today have to do with the kind of society America has become. The employment of both parents is increasing more and more. This means that less and less time is spent with the kids instilling proper values. Instead, things like video games and television are used to raise kids. People today are more concerned with material things than they are with anything else. They want that big screen TV, or that brand new car. It just seems that all our priorities are way out of whack. This is a bit rushed because I'm in a hurry, but I hope it's clear enough what I'm trying to say.

Re:I'm pissed.

[__aamcgs2220]

OK, granted, it takes a village, but a good parent might notice that their child is spending an inordinate amount of time at one particular place. What's that, how should they know? By being good parents and finding out where their child is. Huh? How are they supposed to know what their child is doing at various other places? By being good parents and finding out what they're doing there. How are they supposed to keep up with their children when they have to work so much to pay the bills? Sell the Audi and the Volvo and buy something cheap and reliable so they don't have to work 60 hours a week, thereby allowing them to do what's more important in their lives, which is raising their children. At least where I live, parents seem to treat their kids like Paris Hilton treats her dog: like accessories. I have little sympathy unless there are some extenuating circumstances that makes it impossible to keep up with the kids. Poverty comes to mind, but this kid wasn't living in squalor. From TFA: "...Devin Thompson, when he was apprehended, told officers, 'Life is a video game. You've got to die sometime.'" If your kid has an attitude like that, you should know about it, otherwise you're a shitty parent. Up the chimney with that excuse!

Re:I'm pissed.

[crashfrog]

It's nothing but a finger-pointing game.

Sometimes fingers need to be pointed.

In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery...

Oh? And what if you were doing nothing more than operating it the way it was supposed to be operating, and because it was poorly maintained, it malfunctioned and took your arm off? Or killed you?

I think people have a reasonable expectation that the machines they're expected to work with won't injure or kill them, and that the owners of those machines have a responsibility to ensure that's the case. Much as I think people have a reasonable expectation that spilled coffee shouldn't inflict third-degree burns over their genitals through two layers of clothing. Hence the McDonald's coffee damages.

This lawyer is a douchbag. But there are legitimate reasons for tort lawsuits. I for one don't want to live in a world where companies choose lax safety standards because its cheaper that making sure their products don't maim or kill, and I can't imagine why you would. Tort lawsuits keep that in check.

The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."

Because a surprising number of times, it is someone else's fault.

Re:I'm pissed.

[lucabrasi999]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

I play a video game called Rome: Total War . In that game, I control armies with hundreds (sometimes thousands) of men. Those men march across open fields armed with swords, spears, bows/arrows, etc. Then, they kill each other in massive violent battles. I can actually see hundreds of dead bodies on the field when I am finished with a battle. When I capture an enemy city, I am given the option of Enslaving Half of that cities populace, or killing 90% of the populace in an effort to maintain control.

My game, which I love, is rated T (for Teen). Nobobody complains about the violence in my game. Why are you complaining about the violence in GTA?

Re:I'm pissed.

[daVinci1980]

He's just doing his job, which is getting his client off the hook.

No he isn't. He isn't a lawyer for the kid, or the kid's family. He's a lawyer for the victims' families, and this is a civil suit.

I suspect what's really going on here is that a lawyer with an agenda has convinced grieving families of victims that big media is to blame for their loss. He's trying to shutdown violent video games, like he tried to shutdown gangster rap before that and Madonna before even that.

However, Jack Thompson has tried this before. He's failed every time. I'm confident that he will fail again this time.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooo! Good thinking! I'm going to sue Will and Grace for teaching me to be really catty about other people's wardrobes!

By the way, those shoes... I don't think so.

Re:I'm pissed.

[hdparm]

I am a parent (x 2), too and I call bullshit. Sure, there are influences coming from everywhere - school, neighborhood, good kids, bad kids, movies, politicians, games, Internet, TV, you name it. But if we (parents) fail to build trust and respect with our children to the point where children get 'raised' by any of the above, we have miserably failed and we are the ones to take full responsibility to whatever bad thing happens as a consequence.

Re:I'm pissed.

[eck011219]

And Simpson's Road Rage made me drive like a madman, saying things like "outta my way, you useless tool."

No, wait, I was doing that for years before we got the Playstation.

But I couldn't agree more. I've got to say, it seems like 75% of my daughter's phrasing choices and cultural interests come from what she's heard people other than us say. Grandparents, teachers and friends at pre-school, Arthur, all seem to have rubbed off on her (granted, she's only three, but the pattern is already VERY noticeable.) And taken at face value, that could make it seem like society is raising our kid. But the ability to determine right from wrong, use the appropriate references to infer the proper information from the world around her, and treat other people with kindness and compassion regardless of the cultural references she uses to do so are all up to my wife and I. As is the ability to stand up and take responsibility for his actions rather than listening to some lawyer who wants to make him a pawn in his little windmill-fighting crusade against game companies.

This is not to say that I think this kid should be strung up by his thumbs for this - he's obviously ill and needs help. Let's assume for a minute that this dunderhead lawyer is right - the game did influence him. That indicates a very unhealthy and imprintable mind, not a game that needs to be removed from stores.

While this is kind of an absurd correlation, think about what would happen if all movies were censored that contain objectionable behavior (Blockbuster tried that a few years ago, as I recall, and it was met with some glee and mostly outrage). Trying to strike any reference to the bad parts of society leads to ignorance, not security.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS-]

A judge can very easily sway a jury, with special instructions. Also, a judge can entertain motions for directed judgement and motions on the eligibility of evidence. A judge can make or break a case, even when it is a jury trial.

Re:I'm pissed.

[flithm]

People are so quick to blame the parents, and in most cases I think that this is true, we need to place blame on parents... especially for smaller things.

But in cases where such an extreme act has occurred I don't think that parental upbringing is the totality of what's going on. Sometimes parents do everything right and still end up with a serial killer.

There's a thing called free will, plus the randomness of genetics. You can't always blame the parents. Just wait till your kid shoots someone and see how you feel about being put on trial for the murder even though you had nothing to do with it and you were a model parent.

And just so you know, if you ever spend any time in a mental institute for children you'll know what I mean. This happens a lot, sometimes it's the parents fault, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's them having been born into a society that just doesn't support them, and other times it's just a crossed wire in their brain... maybe one that didn't short circuit in day 43 of year 15. Who knows, but the point is -- you shouldn't be so quick to judge!

---

http://timesync.homeip.net

Re:I'm pissed.

[i41Overlord]

Read about the D.C. sniper case and get back to me. That kid had no wish to kill even though he was a good shot at the range. Only after playing a video game at the insistence of the older guy, did he gain the wish to kill.

That is an extremely weak argument. Hanging around a felon isn't a bad influence, but playing video games is. Ugh. What about the millions of other kids who play the same games, how come they don't all go berserk?

Re:I'm pissed.

[WaterBreath]

Of course I completely agree with you. But there's a growing attitude in America that you shouldn't ever have to make sacrifices. Just a couple of weeks ago I heard a lady on NPR talking about how she felt it was completely unreasonable that a career might need to be sacrificed in order to properly raise a child. There was no perception that it takes more than monetary support and the occasional chauferring to raise a well-developed child. This is embodied by another quote I heard on NPR, from one of the hosts, defending the fact that his children were very well-raised. His defense: one cum laude graduate and two magna cum laude graduates. Sorry buddy, but academic achievement does not equate to balanced and well-developed individual.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Sloppy]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

That's nothing. I used to play a game where I rode on a flying ostrich, and fought other people who were flying on buzzards. The thing is, in this game, the riders all carried really sharp lances, and yet, I would fly around rapidly and recklessly. It seemed fun at the time, but nowdays I realize that it wouldn't have been so fun if one of those lances had poked someone's eye out!

The worst part is that, in the game, I sometimes killed a rare life form. It seems there was this pterodactyl, and I would hit him right in the mouth with my lance, killing him. This I did, with no regard for the scientific value in finding a live pterodactyl, after all these 65 million years. Just think, if we found a live pterodactyl in real life, we could study it and learn so much. But I cackled with glee at the poor animal's virtual death. Here I was, fantasizing about an act that carried with it, incredible amounts of scientific devastation -- permanent destruction of so much irreplacable zoological data. Damn, just thinking about it, makes me realize what a sicko I was. It's a wonder I didn't take up pterodactyl killing in real life. I hate to think what my life would be like today, if I had gone that way. That damn game should have been banned!!

Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

And Super Mario Bros. made me eat magic mushrooms.

Oh, wait...

Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get America.. "Violent video games cause kids to commit crimes, we should ban them." Yet every motherfucking person in the Bible belt owns at least one Gun. Perhaps the kid wouldn't have shot the cops if he couldn't have got access to a Gun.

Before you moderate me flamebait.. please bear in mind that around fifty eight thousand Americans are killed by guns every year. Yes, that's around eleven times as man as in 9/11 and that is EVERY year. Bush would do a better job of protecting americans by removing firearms than countering terroism. You're more likely to be killed by a pig than a terrorist - and your around a million times more likely to be killed by a gun than by Osma.

America needs to stop living in fear and start addressing the real threats to society - one of them being the gun culture.

Yours Sincerely,

AC

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Monkelectric]

Here's the thing you need to know about America... its HUGE. For every thriving metropolis full of modern thought and technology there are ten backwater communities the size of small countries, who live and interact only with themselves and their small ideas, and yet still somehow get out to vote.

Heres the next thing you need to know, Americans are grown up taught that they're *special*. They deserve to be rich and famous. And when that doesnt happen they are disappointed. Lawsuits like these *are* bullshit, but they're a way to be important (and maybe rich). Combine that with a completly broken legal system (where you can get more time for copying a DVD than murder, or you can get millions for cancer caused by smoking even though you knew it was bad for you), throw in our completely unscrupulous lawyers and corporations who have used lawsuits as weapons against the people for years, and people think its ok to sue for things like this.

Just about *EVERYTHING* here in the US needs an overhaul... and nothings getting it

Does anyone know...

[00squirrel]

...the exact date personal responsibility died?

We've discovered the cause...

[Nijika]

Finally, we can lay off the easy access to guns, apathetic education, parental neglect / abuse, drugs, low self-esteem, and a rampant culture of violence and consumerism... The real culprit here was a video game.

meanwhile back in Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

Faux news reports on thousands of Iraqi families bringing lawsuits against the US government for sponsoring and developing PS2 war games and using these games to induce young US recruits for a glamarous battle in Iraq and soon to be Iran (TV schedules are already penned for an october suprise!!).

Games? Alcohol? Any Difference?

[stinerman]

Alcohol-related accidents kill people every day. I don't see anyone trying to put Budweiser or Anheuser-Busch out of business.

It seems rather odd that if video games influence poor decisions, it is the fault of the game manufacturer and/or distributor, but when people make bad decisions and drive when drunk, its just the fault of the person.

I love double standards.

Frivilous Lawsuits

[phidipides]

Do other countries have frivilous lawsuits of this sort, or is it primarily a US-only thing? The idea that you can get rich by suing someone, or that misfortune entitles you to not just fair compensation but riches, is one that I wish could be changed. As an example of how these suits affect me personally, I hate that my health insurance costs are so high; perhaps the costs aren't all due to malpractice suits, but they definitely make up a significant part of it.

One thought I've had as to how these suits could be curbed is to allow judges in civil cases to set a bond, similar to what is done in criminal cases. Since lawyers currently take any case based on the fact that they get a (large) percentage of the settlement, there is no cost to sue, and a huge cost to defend. The person bringing the suit would have to put up the bond, and they would get it back when the case was settled or went to jury. If the case was later thrown out by the judge then the bond would not be returned, and might even go to the defendent to help with legal costs. In cases where obvious harm was done the judge could set the bond very low, but for trivial suits this could become a disincentive for bringing the suit in the first case.

Does any other country do this? How do other countries prevent frivilous lawsuits?

If suing video game developers is fair game..

[defile]

..then so is suing priests, politicians, and Dr. Phil.

If I said the President of the United States taught me that solving problems with violence was appropriate, which is why I shot my next door neighbor, I'd be called a lunatic. But if I say video games made me do it, I'm just a victim?

What a scumbag

[pclminion]

'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,'

I can't believe he can seriously make this argument. I've played the same game and seen the same things in that game as this kid did. I have no desire to commit violent acts because of that.

What happened here is that an individual who was predisposed to violent behavior saw some other violent behavior and (perhaps) modeled it.

According to this guy's sick logic, we should not report crimes in the newspapers or on television because the details of those crimes will motivate other people to commit them. While it is true that people do copycat crimes, they do them because they are criminals, not because of what they saw.

Question

[thefatz]

What entertainment value vs. educational value does a game solicited towards minors which promotes violence against authority figures have? Would the concept of having students entertaining with video games which promotes or otherwise displays strong violence, listen to music on over the air radio broadcasts which promotes or otherwise condones violence, watch TV programs which promotes, displays, and or condones violence in various fashions and physical degrees? Would the consideration of programs on HBO, or various urban rap songs, lyrics and artists which promotes prison has the gangsters paradise be any consideration in the proliferation of violence in students minds?

Would the thoughts of the freedoms we enjoy come back and haunt us? Ever?

Would a society where its children drink two or three soda's a day, eat a hamburgers several times a week, watch various degrees of violence on TV, listen to on radio or music with phrases like "pimp my ho" and "nasty bitchs" and other choice "Ghetto is good"(TM) phrases, or entertains via internet or games with violence the only option, be destined for self destruction?

I'm sure I will be attacked as a troll or zealot or religious fanatic or something of that sort, doesn't matter. What does matter is the simple thought of society training children and students with everything they don't need for a healthy life style. You teach your children to talk through example. You teach your children to dress, act, and interact through example. Why cant a teenager wait to drive, cause he wants what has been around his set as an example.

Same thoughts apply to violence. Everything is set through example.

Similarly

[YrWrstNtmr]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

People also think a game that allows
- taking a rocket launcher and shooting someone in the face is 'fun'
- taking a broadsword and hacking off an opponents arm is 'fun'.
- driving at triple digits on public roads is 'fun'.
- building a rollercoaster that is designed to crash is 'fun'.
- having a giant ape throw boulders at you is 'fun'.

Games are escapism. Deal with it.

How'd he do it?

[cayenne8]

Heck...I'm wondering a bit on how badly trained, or out of shape these police officers were. They let a minor steal a gun from one officer...get off 3 kill shots, and he escaped in a police car...FROM the police station?

Not to be morbid, but, the game trained a kid to do all that, I'd say the POLICE need to be playing more GTA themselves.....

Re:How'd he do it?

[nalav]

When I was arrested, they did keep me cuffed. They checked their guns when they got me inside. There was no special locked in area though to unload me from the car in. I'm sure this varies from state to state though. However, there was no way in hell I could have gotten away, stole a gun, shot some cops, and stole the car. Or even got away. Whoever brought the kid in was obviously sleeping for that to happen.

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