Grand Theft Auto Led Teen to Kill

Varg Vikernes writes "FOXNews reports on a lawsuit that claims the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' led a teenager to shoot two police officers and a dispatcher to death in 2003, mirroring violent acts depicted in the popular game. 'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,' attorney Jack Thompson told The Tuscaloosa News, which reported the suit's filing. Thompson is also filing suit against Wal-Mart, Gamestop, Take-Two and Sony." Gamespot has coverage of this story as well. Thompson has made something of a career out of lawsuits of this nature.

Comments

I'm pissed.

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

When will it be "Parents irresponsible with how they raised their child leads to deaths"?

When will the blame be placed where it belongs, with the people who's job is to raise this child until he is old enough to support himself?

What the hell happened to being responsible for your own actions?

If I ever rob someone at an ATM I'll sue NBC because I saw someone on Law & Order do it once.

What the FUCK is wrong with this country?

Re:I'm pissed.

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a point. But your headline could be tailored to the specific situation:

Parents allow video game to raise child

Seriously, I mean next thing you know we're going to start blaming homosexuality on Will and Grace. Give it a break people. Or rather, get a dining table and stop eating your freaking meals in front of your TV. It's a form of entertainment, not a shrine.

Re:I'm pissed.

[micromoog]

Unless you lock your kid in the basement, he's going to be raised, whether you like it or not, by plenty of other people.

But mainly you. You have to teach him to handle other influences appropriately; that's in fact your main job once the pooping/feeding part is self-sustaining. YOU have to equip him with the tools to differentiate right from wrong, reality from fantasy, exciting electronic offers from spam, etc.

Re:I'm pissed.

[dfenstrate]

What the FUCK is wrong with this country?

At this point, I think it's more fair to ask "What the fuck is wrong with this kid, and his parents?"

We know what's wrong with the lawyer. He has no ethics and thinks there's money to be made.

Now, if he consisently succeeds in winning these lawsuits, then we can ask what's wrong with this country. The answer is already ' a lot of things'

Re:I'm pissed.

[rwven]

Completely agreed. And even without the whole "Parent's raising" part of it (because parents seem to have a problem with that) what about the ridiculous legal system in this country actually holding the people responsible for their actions. I'm so sick of seeing guilt pawned off. It's nothing but a finger-pointing game.

In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery....now it's the company you work fors fault. lame. The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."

Re:I'm pissed.

[LurkerXXX]

Parents should be the strongest influence on letting their kids know what is right and wrong. I watched war movies all the time when I was a kid. I played cowboys and indians all the time. I've never gone to a reservation and shot some innocent native American.

The parents either did a crappy job raising him, or he was born with or developed a severe chemical imabalance, or he's just a bad guy. Either way, it's not the gaming companies fault. It's the kids and possibly his parents.

Re:I'm pissed.

[AviLazar]

Don't lawyers have to follow some ethical code that they pledge to uphold after taking the Bar? Doesn't this code basically state that you should do everything possible to win for your client except do something unethical (like lying). Otherwise, a lawyer should just fabricate evidence for each of their clients.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Decessus]

The problem with this response is it doesn't really address the issue. "There is only so much a parent can do". Sure there, but can you honestly say that parents are doing enough? The problems that are occuring today have to do with the kind of society America has become. The employment of both parents is increasing more and more. This means that less and less time is spent with the kids instilling proper values. Instead, things like video games and television are used to raise kids. People today are more concerned with material things than they are with anything else. They want that big screen TV, or that brand new car. It just seems that all our priorities are way out of whack. This is a bit rushed because I'm in a hurry, but I hope it's clear enough what I'm trying to say.

Re:I'm pissed.

[JaredOfEuropa]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

It's fun because it's challenging. It's also fun because you can do things in the game that you're not able or allowed to do in real life. It's called 'escapism'. And it does not mean that the players condone any such actions in real life, just like many people who disapprove of racism will still laugh at jokes that make fun of ethnic groups.

Re:I'm pissed.

[__aamcgs2220]

OK, granted, it takes a village, but a good parent might notice that their child is spending an inordinate amount of time at one particular place. What's that, how should they know? By being good parents and finding out where their child is. Huh? How are they supposed to know what their child is doing at various other places? By being good parents and finding out what they're doing there. How are they supposed to keep up with their children when they have to work so much to pay the bills? Sell the Audi and the Volvo and buy something cheap and reliable so they don't have to work 60 hours a week, thereby allowing them to do what's more important in their lives, which is raising their children. At least where I live, parents seem to treat their kids like Paris Hilton treats her dog: like accessories. I have little sympathy unless there are some extenuating circumstances that makes it impossible to keep up with the kids. Poverty comes to mind, but this kid wasn't living in squalor. From TFA: "...Devin Thompson, when he was apprehended, told officers, 'Life is a video game. You've got to die sometime.'" If your kid has an attitude like that, you should know about it, otherwise you're a shitty parent. Up the chimney with that excuse!

Re:I'm pissed.

[crashfrog]

It's nothing but a finger-pointing game.

Sometimes fingers need to be pointed.

In the 30's, if you stuck your arm into a pulley and got it taken off, it was your fault because any idiot knows not to put their arm into machinery...

Oh? And what if you were doing nothing more than operating it the way it was supposed to be operating, and because it was poorly maintained, it malfunctioned and took your arm off? Or killed you?

I think people have a reasonable expectation that the machines they're expected to work with won't injure or kill them, and that the owners of those machines have a responsibility to ensure that's the case. Much as I think people have a reasonable expectation that spilled coffee shouldn't inflict third-degree burns over their genitals through two layers of clothing. Hence the McDonald's coffee damages.

This lawyer is a douchbag. But there are legitimate reasons for tort lawsuits. I for one don't want to live in a world where companies choose lax safety standards because its cheaper that making sure their products don't maim or kill, and I can't imagine why you would. Tort lawsuits keep that in check.

The entire country has gone to "blame someone else."

Because a surprising number of times, it is someone else's fault.

Re:I'm pissed.

[lucabrasi999]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

I play a video game called Rome: Total War . In that game, I control armies with hundreds (sometimes thousands) of men. Those men march across open fields armed with swords, spears, bows/arrows, etc. Then, they kill each other in massive violent battles. I can actually see hundreds of dead bodies on the field when I am finished with a battle. When I capture an enemy city, I am given the option of Enslaving Half of that cities populace, or killing 90% of the populace in an effort to maintain control.

My game, which I love, is rated T (for Teen). Nobobody complains about the violence in my game. Why are you complaining about the violence in GTA?

Re:I'm pissed.

[lukewarmfusion]

Well, if you were the judge and it was a jury case (which it certainly will be) then you wouldn't have so much power over it. As a judge, your job is (as my understanding goes, not being a lawyer or anything) is to uphold the law. So if the case is being made properly, it's up to the jurors to make that decision. As a judge, you'd simply be overseeing things.

Judges are supposed to be impartial and fair, but juries are easily swayed by a convincing lawyer. That's why people use character, sympathy, the press, etc. to make their cases.

Re:I'm pissed.

[daVinci1980]

He's just doing his job, which is getting his client off the hook.

No he isn't. He isn't a lawyer for the kid, or the kid's family. He's a lawyer for the victims' families, and this is a civil suit.

I suspect what's really going on here is that a lawyer with an agenda has convinced grieving families of victims that big media is to blame for their loss. He's trying to shutdown violent video games, like he tried to shutdown gangster rap before that and Madonna before even that.

However, Jack Thompson has tried this before. He's failed every time. I'm confident that he will fail again this time.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooo! Good thinking! I'm going to sue Will and Grace for teaching me to be really catty about other people's wardrobes!

By the way, those shoes... I don't think so.

Re:I'm pissed.

[jedidiah]

There are nations where 2 parent working families are pretty mundane and have been so for generations. This is still no excuse and parents from such nations would never dream of making such excuses.

The real problem is that we've become a nation of buck-passers.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Read about the D.C. sniper case and get back to me. That kid had no wish to kill even though he was a good shot at the range. Only after playing a video game at the insistence of the older guy, did he gain the wish to kill.

Uh, says who? The kid? The DEFENDANT?

Yeah, let's go ahead and make public policy based on the statements of someone trying to stay out of JAIL.

Re:I'm pissed.

[hdparm]

I am a parent (x 2), too and I call bullshit. Sure, there are influences coming from everywhere - school, neighborhood, good kids, bad kids, movies, politicians, games, Internet, TV, you name it. But if we (parents) fail to build trust and respect with our children to the point where children get 'raised' by any of the above, we have miserably failed and we are the ones to take full responsibility to whatever bad thing happens as a consequence.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Leroy_Brown242]

If you are not the main influence and pillar for support and guidance in your childs life, you failed years before you realise there is something wrong.

Good parenting doesn't start durring the trouble years, it starts day 0. Well, day -270 or so, but you get the point.)

So, if you have raised a kid who can play a video game, and think it's okay to go do this, you've lost. Many, many years before, though.

Re:I'm pissed.

[eck011219]

And Simpson's Road Rage made me drive like a madman, saying things like "outta my way, you useless tool."

No, wait, I was doing that for years before we got the Playstation.

But I couldn't agree more. I've got to say, it seems like 75% of my daughter's phrasing choices and cultural interests come from what she's heard people other than us say. Grandparents, teachers and friends at pre-school, Arthur, all seem to have rubbed off on her (granted, she's only three, but the pattern is already VERY noticeable.) And taken at face value, that could make it seem like society is raising our kid. But the ability to determine right from wrong, use the appropriate references to infer the proper information from the world around her, and treat other people with kindness and compassion regardless of the cultural references she uses to do so are all up to my wife and I. As is the ability to stand up and take responsibility for his actions rather than listening to some lawyer who wants to make him a pawn in his little windmill-fighting crusade against game companies.

This is not to say that I think this kid should be strung up by his thumbs for this - he's obviously ill and needs help. Let's assume for a minute that this dunderhead lawyer is right - the game did influence him. That indicates a very unhealthy and imprintable mind, not a game that needs to be removed from stores.

While this is kind of an absurd correlation, think about what would happen if all movies were censored that contain objectionable behavior (Blockbuster tried that a few years ago, as I recall, and it was met with some glee and mostly outrage). Trying to strike any reference to the bad parts of society leads to ignorance, not security.

Re:I'm pissed.

[soft_guy]

You can do a bad job as a parent and pretty much cause a child to grow up with issues.

However, doing a good job does not 100% assure that your kid will grow up to be a good person and not a murderer. Some people are who they are despite the best efforts of caring parents.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS-]

A judge can very easily sway a jury, with special instructions. Also, a judge can entertain motions for directed judgement and motions on the eligibility of evidence. A judge can make or break a case, even when it is a jury trial.

Re:I'm pissed.

[R.Caley]

What the fuck is wrong with this kid, and his parents?

Proposal: if your minor child is convicted of a crime you get hit with a proportion of the sentence dependent on the age of the child. (100% at 5 years old, 0% at 18, not sure what the interpolation function should be).

Re:I'm pissed.

[flithm]

People are so quick to blame the parents, and in most cases I think that this is true, we need to place blame on parents... especially for smaller things.

But in cases where such an extreme act has occurred I don't think that parental upbringing is the totality of what's going on. Sometimes parents do everything right and still end up with a serial killer.

There's a thing called free will, plus the randomness of genetics. You can't always blame the parents. Just wait till your kid shoots someone and see how you feel about being put on trial for the murder even though you had nothing to do with it and you were a model parent.

And just so you know, if you ever spend any time in a mental institute for children you'll know what I mean. This happens a lot, sometimes it's the parents fault, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's them having been born into a society that just doesn't support them, and other times it's just a crossed wire in their brain... maybe one that didn't short circuit in day 43 of year 15. Who knows, but the point is -- you shouldn't be so quick to judge!

---

http://timesync.homeip.net

Re:I'm pissed.

[F34nor]

There are also first world countries where the kids play violent video games all day long and never ever go out a kill people. It called Japan. The problem here is at least three fold.

1. Questionable Parenting.
2. Culture of violence.
3. Easy access to high level weapons.

Remove any of those legs of the tripod and you can reduce this kind of thing to a manageable level. Not to say I don't feel for the argument. After playing GTA for long enough you do start to see the world in GTA. No would I go out and get an AK-47 and some body armor and start going postal on the world? No, why should I? If I had been ass raped by my red-state Nascar dad and ignored by my Meth addicted mother, only to go to school to get the shit kicked out of me by anti-intellectual assholes and had access to the ammo dump I might (not)think a little differently.

Re:I'm pissed.

[i41Overlord]

Read about the D.C. sniper case and get back to me. That kid had no wish to kill even though he was a good shot at the range. Only after playing a video game at the insistence of the older guy, did he gain the wish to kill.

That is an extremely weak argument. Hanging around a felon isn't a bad influence, but playing video games is. Ugh. What about the millions of other kids who play the same games, how come they don't all go berserk?

Re:I'm pissed.

[Chris Mattern]

> Next people are gonna say that Dungeons and Dragons causes people to murder others with swords.

No, D&D causes people to murder each other with demonic curses. Don't you read the Chick booklets?

Chris Mattern

Re:I'm pissed.

[drinkypoo]

The most important thing to keep in mind is that there is typically no correlation between media and crime. The correlation is between cultural attitudes and crime. Many places in Europe you'll find a distinct lack of a nudity (or even prostitution) taboo, yet they have less per capita sex crime. If media caused violence, if exposure caused violence, then there would be more of a problem there, not less. We have a deep cultural disease, and while I have no real ideas on how to cure it, I'm pretty goddamn sure it has nothing to do with media. Before video games, people were blaming violence in movies for youth violence; I wonder if before modern media, people blamed violent epics handed down by oral tradition, and tried to ban bards?

Re:I'm pissed.

[WaterBreath]

Of course I completely agree with you. But there's a growing attitude in America that you shouldn't ever have to make sacrifices. Just a couple of weeks ago I heard a lady on NPR talking about how she felt it was completely unreasonable that a career might need to be sacrificed in order to properly raise a child. There was no perception that it takes more than monetary support and the occasional chauferring to raise a well-developed child. This is embodied by another quote I heard on NPR, from one of the hosts, defending the fact that his children were very well-raised. His defense: one cum laude graduate and two magna cum laude graduates. Sorry buddy, but academic achievement does not equate to balanced and well-developed individual.

Re:I'm pissed.

[ClubStew]

Parents allow video game to raise child

Bad parenting - or just an utter lack of any parenting - is a major cause of most problems, true, but what I found most aggravating is that the suit says the game "trained" him to shoot those 3 men. How much training is required to pull a little trigger with the open end pointing at someone? Not even bad parents need to teach that.

Re:I'm pissed.

[Donny Smith]

> the suit says the game "trained" him to shoot those 3 men.

Only three men?
Praise the game maker!
Imagine what would have happened if the little bozo watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or "Hitler: The Rise of Evil" instead!

Re:I'm pissed.

[Sloppy]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

That's nothing. I used to play a game where I rode on a flying ostrich, and fought other people who were flying on buzzards. The thing is, in this game, the riders all carried really sharp lances, and yet, I would fly around rapidly and recklessly. It seemed fun at the time, but nowdays I realize that it wouldn't have been so fun if one of those lances had poked someone's eye out!

The worst part is that, in the game, I sometimes killed a rare life form. It seems there was this pterodactyl, and I would hit him right in the mouth with my lance, killing him. This I did, with no regard for the scientific value in finding a live pterodactyl, after all these 65 million years. Just think, if we found a live pterodactyl in real life, we could study it and learn so much. But I cackled with glee at the poor animal's virtual death. Here I was, fantasizing about an act that carried with it, incredible amounts of scientific devastation -- permanent destruction of so much irreplacable zoological data. Damn, just thinking about it, makes me realize what a sicko I was. It's a wonder I didn't take up pterodactyl killing in real life. I hate to think what my life would be like today, if I had gone that way. That damn game should have been banned!!

Re:I'm pissed.

[Sloppy]

I think the main reason for that is that there is no danger that the average teen is going to be able to raise an army of hundreds or thousands and attempt to overthrow local authorities.

Oh sure, you say that now. But what will history say about your short-sighted comment?

Are we really going to wait for a new Joan of Arc or Alexander the Great to destabilize society, before we think about our childrens' welfare and do something to prevent the next tragedy? How many cities will we have to lose, how many millions enslaved, before you take the risk seriously?

Yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

And Super Mario Bros. made me eat magic mushrooms.

Oh, wait...

Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get America.. "Violent video games cause kids to commit crimes, we should ban them." Yet every motherfucking person in the Bible belt owns at least one Gun. Perhaps the kid wouldn't have shot the cops if he couldn't have got access to a Gun.

Before you moderate me flamebait.. please bear in mind that around fifty eight thousand Americans are killed by guns every year. Yes, that's around eleven times as man as in 9/11 and that is EVERY year. Bush would do a better job of protecting americans by removing firearms than countering terroism. You're more likely to be killed by a pig than a terrorist - and your around a million times more likely to be killed by a gun than by Osma.

America needs to stop living in fear and start addressing the real threats to society - one of them being the gun culture.

Yours Sincerely,

AC

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Anonymous Coward]

The people that want to ban violent video games aren't necessarily the ones that want to keep guns legal. Most of the people that support gun ownership probably also support personal responsibility.

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[DeathFlame]

I live in Canada. We have lots of guns here too. We don't shoot other people.

It's not the guns that's the problem. The people that want guns to use them, will get guns.

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Monkelectric]

Here's the thing you need to know about America... its HUGE. For every thriving metropolis full of modern thought and technology there are ten backwater communities the size of small countries, who live and interact only with themselves and their small ideas, and yet still somehow get out to vote.

Heres the next thing you need to know, Americans are grown up taught that they're *special*. They deserve to be rich and famous. And when that doesnt happen they are disappointed. Lawsuits like these *are* bullshit, but they're a way to be important (and maybe rich). Combine that with a completly broken legal system (where you can get more time for copying a DVD than murder, or you can get millions for cancer caused by smoking even though you knew it was bad for you), throw in our completely unscrupulous lawyers and corporations who have used lawsuits as weapons against the people for years, and people think its ok to sue for things like this.

Just about *EVERYTHING* here in the US needs an overhaul... and nothings getting it

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[neoThoth]

RTFA! The kid took the gun from the police officer. Unless you're trying to argue that the police shouldn't have guns your post and all the ones under it should be modded way the hell off topic.

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Stealth Potato]

That's a common misconception; the prefatory clause "A well regulated militia..." does not alter the fact that "the right of the people" refers to a right of the people in general. The second amendment does not require that persons be a member of the militia in order to bear arms. Also, do not confuse the "Militia" with the United States Military, or the National Guard. Very different things. :-)

I would recommend reading this.

It's a moot point anyway. If you're a male United States citizen between the ages of 17 and 45, you are a member of the United States militia. I refer you to USC Title 10, Chapter 13, Section 311.

Re:Americans need to get themselves straight..

[Angron]

Personal responsibility could conceivably be extended to justify murder, with "well, he didn't have a gun and didn't defend himself when I shot him dead, so it's his fault he's dead".

That's the most bizarre twisting of the phrase 'personal responsibility' I have ever heard. Bravo. Most sane people actually use it to mean standing behind your actions, not "you are responsible for everything that happens to you."

Does anyone know...

[00squirrel]

...the exact date personal responsibility died?

We've discovered the cause...

[Nijika]

Finally, we can lay off the easy access to guns, apathetic education, parental neglect / abuse, drugs, low self-esteem, and a rampant culture of violence and consumerism... The real culprit here was a video game.

one quote sums this up

[Anonymous Coward]

"There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another." --Frank Zappa

meanwhile back in Iraq

[Anonymous Coward]

Faux news reports on thousands of Iraqi families bringing lawsuits against the US government for sponsoring and developing PS2 war games and using these games to induce young US recruits for a glamarous battle in Iraq and soon to be Iran (TV schedules are already penned for an october suprise!!).

Games? Alcohol? Any Difference?

[stinerman]

Alcohol-related accidents kill people every day. I don't see anyone trying to put Budweiser or Anheuser-Busch out of business.

It seems rather odd that if video games influence poor decisions, it is the fault of the game manufacturer and/or distributor, but when people make bad decisions and drive when drunk, its just the fault of the person.

I love double standards.

That's funny

[stinky wizzleteats]

GTA taught me that shooting cops pretty much always results in a quick and violent death. He must have better cheat codes than I do.

Frivilous Lawsuits

[phidipides]

Do other countries have frivilous lawsuits of this sort, or is it primarily a US-only thing? The idea that you can get rich by suing someone, or that misfortune entitles you to not just fair compensation but riches, is one that I wish could be changed. As an example of how these suits affect me personally, I hate that my health insurance costs are so high; perhaps the costs aren't all due to malpractice suits, but they definitely make up a significant part of it.

One thought I've had as to how these suits could be curbed is to allow judges in civil cases to set a bond, similar to what is done in criminal cases. Since lawyers currently take any case based on the fact that they get a (large) percentage of the settlement, there is no cost to sue, and a huge cost to defend. The person bringing the suit would have to put up the bond, and they would get it back when the case was settled or went to jury. If the case was later thrown out by the judge then the bond would not be returned, and might even go to the defendent to help with legal costs. In cases where obvious harm was done the judge could set the bond very low, but for trivial suits this could become a disincentive for bringing the suit in the first case.

Does any other country do this? How do other countries prevent frivilous lawsuits?

Re:Frivilous Lawsuits

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between the US legal system, and those in other western nations, is the difference in size of awards.

I have a cousin who does health law in Canada, and the awards granted in malpractice cases is MUCH lower than in the US. Personal injury awards are much lower as well. The result is that there is just not as much incentive to "roll the dice", because even if you win, you are unlikely to receive a multi million dollar settlement. As mentioned before, loser pays court costs helps to keep these stupid suits in check as well. Not a big deal if I am trying to sue the guy next door, as both of our costs will be about the same. However, if you try it against Coke, and you lose, you now get to pay for their 15 man legal team, and the mysterious 6 months of billing time accumulated, over the 2 month time period.

For example, this quote came from a Canadian Law firm, and their research on the differences between awards in Canada and the US

Regarding US awards
while average awards for compensatory damages in such cases range from $600,000 to $1 million, the average punitive damage award for insurer bad faith is 10 times that figure, in the range of $7-10 million;

Regarding Canadaian awards
the highest punitive damage award sustained by a Canadian appellate court is only $1 million (and even that number is 10 times higher than the most recent award upheld by the B.C. Court of Appeal)

For instance. The recent suit against NBC, by the viewer who suffered "mental anguish" after puking while watching Fear Factor, claiming damages of 2 million. In Canada, the court might hear the case, but they would never even consider awarding 2 million dollars. They might give you the cost of the meal that you puked up, and then send you to hockey school to learn some toughness. So lawyers are reluctant to take these cases, because they don't want 10% of a happy meal, and 20 minutes of ice time. And even if by some miracle, they did award 2 million, the appelate court would never uphold the lower court decision.

Short answer, to get rid of the frivilous lawsuits, you have to get rid of the huge awards.

Re:Frivilous Lawsuits

[bernz]

The reason why this is, or so I'm told by the tons of lawyers I work with/for, is that this allows the "little man" to sue the "big man". Yes, it seems dumb that anyone can attempt to sue anyone else for any reason, but how else can a "nobody" just issue suit against a "somebody". In Britain, the loser has to pay the costs of the winner. If the winner has a team from GibsonDunn or BlankRome or some other huge firm, this can be Millions of dollars. The little man can never attempt to sue if that is what's at stake.

Most lawyers do not work on contingency. most lawyers are paid per 10 minute or 15 minute interval of work. Personal injury attorneys are paid in contingency, but not in most other law.

If a suit is trivial, it is thrown out of court. It is only heard by the court if it is NOT trivial. A judge wouldn't hear a case like this unless he deemed it a worthy thing to hear. SO perhaps the judge is wrong, but that's another issue entirely. It's not the fault of the system at that point, but the fault of the lame-o judge.

If suing video game developers is fair game..

[defile]

..then so is suing priests, politicians, and Dr. Phil.

If I said the President of the United States taught me that solving problems with violence was appropriate, which is why I shot my next door neighbor, I'd be called a lunatic. But if I say video games made me do it, I'm just a victim?

Other games I hold responsible

[Hoi Polloi]

Pong - Led me to a life as a professional tennis player

Pac Man - Responsible for my obesity

Paperboy - Caused me to lose my delivery job as a kid

Spy Hunter - Responsible for my reckless speeding

Monopoly - Caused me to found Microsoft

Leisure Suit Larry - Responsible for my herpes

What a scumbag

[pclminion]

'What has happened in Alabama is that four companies participated in the training of Devin... to kill three men,'

I can't believe he can seriously make this argument. I've played the same game and seen the same things in that game as this kid did. I have no desire to commit violent acts because of that.

What happened here is that an individual who was predisposed to violent behavior saw some other violent behavior and (perhaps) modeled it.

According to this guy's sick logic, we should not report crimes in the newspapers or on television because the details of those crimes will motivate other people to commit them. While it is true that people do copycat crimes, they do them because they are criminals, not because of what they saw.

American Law Suit Lotto

[rlp]

In most other countries, the loser of a law suit pays their own legal expenses AND the legal expenses of the winner. That's not the case in the US, where trial lawyers can play law suit lotto. You lose, doesn't cost anything to play again.

Is it immoral to play these games

[CrazyJim1]

I'm Christian, and I am a hardcore gamer. I enjoyed GTA1,2,3d and Vice City. But when I stopped to ponder the goal of the game, its to role-play someone evil. Now I know I'm not out actually killing people and doing harm, but in my heart I'm trying to win the game. But when you asssociate with the character thinking he's right, which you always want to do with a hero character in a movie(same holds true for watching horror movies with a main character that kills everyone) or book.

As much as I want to, I didn't play GTA:San Andreas. I simply think its something I don't want to do. Its like rap too, with negative stereotypes toward blacks(demeaning towards women,praise about guns, drugs, excessive use of curse words). I was into rap for a while, thinking its a good way to bring people together... But they people they're brining together...

I'm not suprised at a GTA player killing people. Or a quake person going on columbine. Or a columbine obsessed person killing people at a mall. Nor am I suprised at someone who obsesses over Friday the thirteeth to go out on a rampage either. Some people make horrific icons their heros. Then they want to be like them. So they'll try and come off all dark and evil. But if people just make fun of them, they'll take it one step further and take out the act to show they're really like their hero.

Its all in whats in your heart. People's desires and values are what make us human.

Question

[thefatz]

What entertainment value vs. educational value does a game solicited towards minors which promotes violence against authority figures have? Would the concept of having students entertaining with video games which promotes or otherwise displays strong violence, listen to music on over the air radio broadcasts which promotes or otherwise condones violence, watch TV programs which promotes, displays, and or condones violence in various fashions and physical degrees? Would the consideration of programs on HBO, or various urban rap songs, lyrics and artists which promotes prison has the gangsters paradise be any consideration in the proliferation of violence in students minds?

Would the thoughts of the freedoms we enjoy come back and haunt us? Ever?

Would a society where its children drink two or three soda's a day, eat a hamburgers several times a week, watch various degrees of violence on TV, listen to on radio or music with phrases like "pimp my ho" and "nasty bitchs" and other choice "Ghetto is good"(TM) phrases, or entertains via internet or games with violence the only option, be destined for self destruction?

I'm sure I will be attacked as a troll or zealot or religious fanatic or something of that sort, doesn't matter. What does matter is the simple thought of society training children and students with everything they don't need for a healthy life style. You teach your children to talk through example. You teach your children to dress, act, and interact through example. Why cant a teenager wait to drive, cause he wants what has been around his set as an example.

Same thoughts apply to violence. Everything is set through example.

Re:Question

[null etc.]

Well, first off, let me state that your argument was very impassioned.

Let me also state that I have no idea what you just said.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

What gets me is violent video games, violent TV shows, violent movies, hate-mongering music, etc., has completely permeated American society and is condoned, demonstrably. But show a booby on TV -- then you'll see concerned parents throw a fit about protecting our children! WTF is wrong with people?

God, will Pac-Man Make Me Eat Balls?

[syntap]

And where in GTA can I kill a dispatcher? I don't remember that one.

No difference at all.

[saddino]

Just to expand on your point: a number of violent crimes (assault, battery) are committed by drunk people, especially domestic crimes (spousal and child abuse).

"Alcohol is associated with a substantial proportion of human violence, and perpetrators are often under the influence of alcohol." -- Eighth Special Report to the U.S. Congress on Alcohol and Health

So, it's no secret that alcohol can be abused to the detriment of society. But, the counterargument is this: most people who consume alcohol commit no crimes at all. Thus, alcohol does not cause violence, it simply makes violent people more violent.

This applies equally to movies, video games, rock/rap music and other targets of these self-proclaimed "moralists."

This kid was already violent. And mort importantly: one out of millions does not prove causation between GTA and violence.

At The Risk of Being Flammed

[canfirman]

I read the comments about personal responsibility of parents watching what their kids do, and I say, "Hear! Hear!" It drives me nuts when people think that items like the V-CHIP, "parential blocking" features on TV and the Web, ratings on music/video games, or "family friendly" proxies by ISP's will be enough to "protect our children from the bad stuff". I've always felt that, as a parent, you need to be interactive with your children and understand what they're doing - now more than ever! I even know of a buddy of mine who played GTA3 with his 3 year old son watching (giving the other controller to his son so he coud "run the people over"). The son was later found beating the snot out of his teddy bear with a hockey stick because "he saw it on TV" (i.e. the game - or was that NHL 2004?). Parents NEED to watch what their kids are doing.

Having said that, I wonder where games like the GTA series have in our society? I am honestly asking: what is the appeal of these games? We've had games before were you're the hero defeating "the enemy" (whether it's in Wolfenstein, Doom, etc.), and I don't have a problem with that. My question revolves around games where the object is to steal/kill innocent people. You have to admit that something like that could influence someone's behaviour.

I bring this up becuase, back in university, I did research on how porn videos affect male sexual response, and there were some men who wanted to "do it like that bitch in" whatever movie, and their sexual response was based on what they saw in the videos (the feeling that this was "normal" behaviour). This was documented research by a scientific study. So, it cannot be denied that whatever a person interacts themselves with can have an effect on their behaviour.

So, I am asking what is the appeal of these games?

Oh, and before anybody asks: yes, I've tried playing GTA, but couldn't get into it.

Re:At The Risk of Being Flammed

[decipher_saint]

Do you really have to ask? It's all the things we are not allowed to do. It's an action movie, it's every car chase, it's every gun fight and every mob war you've ever seen on television or in the movies.

GTA is a role playing game, but instead of traditional iconography you freely roam mythical American landscapes and slay the dragons of every Cop show or mob movie. So if you really want to know from whence GTA gains it popularity figure out why car chases, gun fights and excessive violence is an inseperable part of worldwide pop-culture.

It should always be stated when referring to GTA that it is also a game of free will, you can kill someone with a baseball bat if you want to, there are no real rammifications to this action other than getting "arrested" losing your money and getting your weapons taken away. So far as I have seen, the only time when it is necesarry to kill another in-game character is when the plot has morally justified their extermination to the gamer, you are not obligated nor rewarded for killing "non-guilty" NPCs.

Games don't kill people. People kill people..

[geek_xyu]

Remember the good ol days before grand theft auto. No body ever killed anyone and people certainly never would have stolen from someone else. Horrible game companies.. Oh yea and how did this kid get a gun? Interesting.

Similarly

[YrWrstNtmr]

What's wrong with people that they think a game that allows you to beat up women, shoot cops and steal cars is fun?

People also think a game that allows
- taking a rocket launcher and shooting someone in the face is 'fun'
- taking a broadsword and hacking off an opponents arm is 'fun'.
- driving at triple digits on public roads is 'fun'.
- building a rollercoaster that is designed to crash is 'fun'.
- having a giant ape throw boulders at you is 'fun'.

Games are escapism. Deal with it.

Let's blame God.

[i41Overlord]

Everyone wants to blame someone else. They want to blame the media, blame their video games, blame their friends, etc. But none of these influences is very strong. You should be able to easily override them.

There is one influence, however, that is too strong to resist- God.

The church tells me that God controls everything. When something good happens, it's because of God. When something bad happens, it's because of God also, and he had a good reason for it. Nobody affiliated with the church has ever told me that something is out of God's control. They say he's always in control- he controls all there is.

Therefore I think it's sensible to blame God. God made him do it. God could have overridden this kid's thoughts but he didn't. God allowed it to happen.

So I think instead of blaming the media, the gun makers, the video game makers, or the parents, we should blame Jesus instead. Sue the church. Because as any good Christian will tell you, God is always in control of things and therefore is liable for everything that happens.

(Hey, if you're going to claim that you're in control of everything that happens, be prepared to accept responsibility for everything that happens)

How'd he do it?

[cayenne8]

Heck...I'm wondering a bit on how badly trained, or out of shape these police officers were. They let a minor steal a gun from one officer...get off 3 kill shots, and he escaped in a police car...FROM the police station?

Not to be morbid, but, the game trained a kid to do all that, I'd say the POLICE need to be playing more GTA themselves.....

Re:How'd he do it?

[kill -9 $$]

Like a lot of instances where cops get killed though, were they actually following police procecdure? I mean, I follow the whole off guard premise, etc. but when you're arrested your usually (from what I recall):
1) still cuffed right up to being dragged into the booking room
2) brought into a locked garage or contained area before they open the doors to the crusier to let you out
3) (this one I can't quite remember) cops check their guns before bringing the suspect into the booking room and uncuffing them.

Those procedures are in place to minimize your chance of having a suspect jumping you, killing you, and/or getting away of which this kid seems to have done all three.

Re:How'd he do it?

[nalav]

When I was arrested, they did keep me cuffed. They checked their guns when they got me inside. There was no special locked in area though to unload me from the car in. I'm sure this varies from state to state though. However, there was no way in hell I could have gotten away, stole a gun, shot some cops, and stole the car. Or even got away. Whoever brought the kid in was obviously sleeping for that to happen.

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