Can India Become A Knowledge Superpower?

krsmathews writes " New Scientist, in its latest issue, has a special report on India. It provocatively calls India the next knowledge superpower, though in a introductory story the caveats are laid out. It's a reasonably comprehensive look at India's high-tech research, pharma, bio-tech, space, and nuclear industries. The U.S. R&D expenditure is bigger than the next five countries put together, and India is nowhere in the picture. "

Comments

What about China?

[mOoZik]

It has everything going for it. Growing economy, a collection of research labs of U.S. and domestic companies, and a desire to pace with and outdo anything the West can throw at it. I'd put my money on China before I put it on India.

Re:What about China?

[Anonymous Coward]

YS Rajasekhara Reddy (the new CM in power after Naidu was ousted) is no better. Ask anyone who is living in an AP village.

He promised free electricity, free water, more rural funding (via loans and such), and so on. He delivered nothing. It was just two days ago that I spoke with a farmer from Ongole who was forced to move to a city into a life of manual labour. The suicides have not stopped, they have just been hushed up.

Naidu did not discourage rural AP. He has, in fact, done more for them than any of the previous CMs. He has never ignored it.

How is this relevant? Naidu's policies affected everyone in the state directly (positively) through a "trickle down" effect (as I have heard it called). This can be done at the national scale. All this requires is a bit of backing from the government in making the country more lucrative to investment, and encouraging education at all levels. Do not ever make the mistake of putting someone in power who claim they want the best for rural India. History has shown that they are lying. Oh wait, it's too late. We already voted the Congress into power.

And BTW, it was during Naidu's tenure that my grandparents in Rajahmundry (small rural town near visakhapatnam) had access to the internet for the first time. I've stayed there for a while, so I'm not talking nonsense. Now all the place has is 8-hour-long blackouts and a severe water shortage (even though they have recorded the highest rainfall over the past few years this year)

Re:What about China?

[kevinbr]

Well we dropped cluster bombs and destroyed Fallujah and killed ( estimated by Lancet study) 100,000 Iraqis.

This is slightly worse than Tianamen Square.

Was this prudent? Different countries evolve at different paces. We in the US have a fine history of enslavement, genocide ( Indians ), child labor,dropping nuclear bombs on civilians, firebombing civlians etc etc etc.

At the time it was felt nessasary to enslave Africans to lower labor costs. Prudent business practice?

We are in no position ever to judge other nations.

Our President only now speaks to invited supporters with no protesters allowed near. The police brutally beat and suppress dissent. Is this prudent?

Some questions...

[aendeuryu]

The US R&D expenditure is bigger than the next five countries put together, and India is nowhere in the picture.

Granted, that's impressive spending, but how much of this has to do with a higher overall cost of living in the US, and therefore, higher salaries for your workers? Also, how much of that spending is directly related to the military?

Just wondering how much overall dollar output directly relates to one's place on the R&D totem pole.

Maybe...not.

[coKestar]

No nation where cows do not fear Ronald McDonald cannot be trusted!

And?

[mindstormpt]

The US R&D expenditure is bigger than the next five countries put together, and India is nowhere in the picture.

Money != Brains.

It does seem that Money = Arrogance though.

Corporate funding for R&D in school

[1tsm3]

As long as the corporate funding for R&D in schools is as low as it is now in India, I don't think India (not Indians) will ever become a Knowledge superpower. I'm an Indian who is now in the U.S. It's just amazing on how many new things the undergrads in the US can work on when compared to how little the grads in India can work on. The difference is in extremes. Here in the U.S, even small univs undergrad team builds solar cars, in India, even the grads don't get enough money to work on something useful. Most of it is theory in India. Sad, but true. I wish corporates in India put enough money into R&D in Indian schools.

cost of doing business

[freshfromthevat]

In my experience (USA working with OEMs doing high tech products) the cost of doing business with Indian Engineers is too high. They have a long (45 day) import delay for prototype hardware. The engineers who hire with companies I'm familiar with stay for training and then jump jobs. The communications difficulties (time shifted from USA offices) and language/cultural difficulties (different holidays, different work culture) make doing business awkward and less efficient than working with rural Americans (for instance).

Eventually Indian companies will run their own engineers and see some efficiencies that way. Then USA OEMs could see some serious competition. The only thing that would hold Indian OEMs back is internal costs of doing business, duties, taxes, crime, limitations on cooperation due to secrecy, government corruption, etc.. . Like here in the USA. The top dog world wide is going to be the country with the greatest efficiencies of doing business. Time will tell.

I liked this one...

[bogaboga]

[...]The US R&D expenditure is bigger than the next five countries put together, and India is nowhere in the picture."

This I should mention includes inflated costs and bribes for bureaucrats. The Russians do much more and produce very durable space and nuclear equipment for less than one-third of our cost as Americans. This same reasoning presumes that if an individual lives on less than a dollar a day, they must be very badly off. I visited Uganda where a meal costing 4 US dollars was more than enough for me for two days!

Yes, India can and will be superpower whether we like it or not. It's not how much money one spends guys. The latest Russian aircraft costs less than half as much as our most advanced one, yet delivers more power and is even easily maintained. I wish our politicians get this into their heads.

As Someone who just came back from India...

[AnyLoveIsGoodLove]

I took a trip to the south of India (Kerala, Banglore, and Channai (Madras). I spent a month and for the most parts avoided the tourist areas. My inlaws live far away from the nearest town in Kerala.

discoslure:

I'm a 31 year old white male whose worked in the computer industry since I graduated from college.

A few General Observations:

What India has going for them....

1) I've never seen a country so utterly focused on education (remember I spent my time in the South). Education is the only way out for Indians. The pressure is unbelievable for young people to perform in school. Everywhere you go you see signs for schools / education

2) English is spoken fluently among the college educated. English is the language of business in the south (in major cities, white collar type of work) b/c there are 19 "official" languages with an unbelievable number of dialects. Combine with the business process outsourcing (BPO), and you get a lot of focus around English language skills. I tried to learn the local dialect, but everyone wanted to practice English...

3) India graduates over 1 M engineers a year. There schools are extremely competitive. Areas such as Kerala have a 100% literacy rate, this meets or exceeds any Western country...

4) Motivation and drive. It's amazing what people will do to better themselves. This motivation and drive provides the foundation for the above. Spending a week in Bangalore was absolutely refreshing (and the food was great). To see all the young people full of life and excited was contagious... I can't wait to go back. I love seeing all the tech companies signs....

5) Economics. The largest middle class in the World, in sheer numbers. In India, it takes 2,000 USD a year to achieve a middle class lifestyle, that's ~1,500 EUR and ~1200 UK sterling. This middle class will drive the world's manufacturers to provide low priced quality goods, and the whole world will benefit.

6) Politics. Democracy works, although its not neccessarliy the kind the US imagines. A diverse group of cultures / languages get a long in a basic sense. Is it perfect no, but it gives me hope for places like Iraq.

What Challenges are ahead for India

1) Education: The focus on engineering has led to a culture that is not entrepreneur focused. It takes a diverse set of skills to move out of the BPO / Manufacturing mindset. Take Apple's IPOD. It took American design and a world wide supply chain to make this happen. The key is the design. That's what makes a product sell, manufacturing is important, but if you don't move up the chain, you will always have difficultly. Note to engineers: Get jobs that are customer facing and can't be outsourced...

2) Gaps There are 100's of Millions still in dire poverty and extreme education. If the middle class and the rich get too far ahead of the rest of the country, I think there will be a lot of social unrest.

3) Environment. India is a shit hole to put it nicely. If they don't clean up sooner rather than later, India will face a lot of health care cost for the population. Also, in Kerala, fresh water is an issue.

It's the old problem of changing mindsets. The tech version is a company that sold hardware and now wants to sell software or services only. Its huge change and most fail.

That's it I look forward to replies to others who have been to the south and I'm curious what your opinions are...

I loved it and I can't wait to go back......

Re:As Someone who just came back from India...

[rsidd]

They have 160 million Dalits ("untouchables")

Whoa there. Caste-based discrimination was outlawed back in 1950 when independent India's new constitution was adopted (less than three years after independence) and has in fact nearly vanished in the cities (except in some things like marriage), though it persists in many rural areas. Now check out how long after independence the US persisted with slavery, how long after that the US failed to extend civil rights to blacks, how long after 1950 it took for the civil rights movement to have an impact, what the current state of racial relations is in the major cities of the US, leave alone the rural south. Then come back and comment on India's Dalits.

US versus Common Europe

[handy_vandal]

If you consider Europe as a country like entity then i am not sure the U.S. are so superior.

Common Europe is a formidable economic powerhouse, comparable to the United States:

"The euro area's GDP was only 60% the size of America's in 2001. If current exchange rates are sustained [circa December 2003], it swells to around 80%. If the economies of Britain, Sweden and Denmark are added to the euro area, the European Union now has a slightly larger economy than that of the United States."
Source

Further evidence of global economic conflict between Common Europe and the United States: Iraq switched from US dollars to the euro in 2000:

"On November 6th of 2000 Iraq became the first country to receive all of its oil export payments in euros instead of American dollars. This switch was estimated to cost Iraq $270 million dollars, but Iraq had since actually come out on top due to the rise in the value of the euro, which was actually probably influenced by Iraq's decision to use the euro as its foreign exchange currency."
Source

However, following the US invasion of Iraq,

"the US ... installed its own authority to rule the country and as soon as Iraqi oil became available to sell on the world market, it was announced that payment would be in dollars only."
Source

-kgj

Re:bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

I always hate writing out rebuttals to posts like the parent who talk like paper tigers "There cannot be glitzy progress ignoring 75% of the people". Tax rates are pretty high in India. Everything is taxed to kingdom come. But still the poor are just that, poor.
India is going to go to hell unless they control their population.
"At least, we don't have to sweep unpleasant facts under the carpet". Yes, for 50+ years now we having been wallowing in self-pity because we like to keep these facts in front of us. I cannot or should not make money because the person next to me is still poor. This is the attitude past govts have employed. Look where India is today.

Did you know that if the Indian govt directly gave 2.2 $ to every Indian who was classified as living below the poverty line, India would have no poverty at all. India spends a 3+ $ on these programmes and yet the poor Indian probably does not see more than 5-10 cents of it.

"In the absence of any corrective measures, I am sure even India can be like China. It has been acquiring a steady 6-7% growth rate for the past 5 years."

Yes, India will be in 2020 what China is in 2010. Mark my words, 2008 olympics is in china, 2016 is in india.

I haven't been to AP in a few years but what I do know is that Naidu did make Hyderabad liveable and attract a lot of companies. These companies create high paying jobs, meaning there is a trickle down effect in the economy.

Would you rather have Naidu who courts companies or some populist leader who dances to the tunes of farmers for their votes?

Being a former US resident, and a current bangalore resident, let me assure you that the bangalore(karnataka) govt went out only because of the drought. The previous govt was so much fucking better than the current dharam singh govt in place.

If you read the newspaper, you will see that the current govt is fucking pathetic in all aspects.
They have made bangalore a living hell with traffic mismanagement, no funds for infrastructure. All the chief minister does is give empty promises. His rural promises are also ring hollow.
Think about it. Bangalore's industries provide 70 % of the state's revenue. Why will you want to mess with that and the govt has taken bangalore and its citizens for granted. Many software companies are expanding, but not in bangalore. In other cities and states.

Read India Today" Dec 13 2004 issue "No Bang for the Buck" to know about blore. The current govt is going to pay for their lackadaisical attitude.

Now let us talk about China. It has one govt(whatever your opinion is on the political issue, lets focus on the economic one).
One govt means that it can focus on economic issues without political distractions. The chinese govt is putting a lot of its energies into building the infrastructure in China, be it power, communications, highways etc.

Just compare that with India. Here politicians cannot end squabbling among themselves, economy is down on their list.
Do you how many small cities in China are getting their own airports? How long is it taking to build the bangalore airport? See "indian bureaucracy is least friendly in asia" july, 04 in the deccan herald.

Democracy is a beautiful thing. That is why see what Bihar is today. Democracy works when your population is under control, not out of control with 30 million births a year.

Compare the infrastructure: in, cn. For amusement, take a look at just one feature in Iran's factbook, ir
Compare the number of runways above 3000m that India has and the number that Iran has.
That will give you an indication of how pathetic indian infrastructure is even when compared to a economy like Iran which has been under sanctions for 20+ years.

At the current rate India is progressing, it w

Re:censorship

[alphakappa]

" i did a "search discussion" and it seems no one has mentioned the sexual repression and severe censorship of all media"

What, sir, are you smoking, and where can I have some of it?

Seriously though, the only media that is subject to censorship is movies since all movies have to go through the Central Board of Film Certification to get a U (universal) or A (adult) certificate. (There are more categories). (If you do watch Indian movies though, you will find that it is a very loose form of censorship).

No media including newspapers, or magazines or the Internet is subject to even the feeblest form of censorship in India. And I have spent a good part of my life in India and I know what I talking about.