World of Warcraft PvP Ranking System Detailed

The official World of Warcraft site has details on the Player vs. Player ranking system which they'll be rolling out to the game. It gives meaning to the PvP concept with tangible, and impressive, rewards for engaging in combat with other players, a leader board, and little things like an officer's title. From the article: "As we have mentioned before, when you kill other players or aggressive PvP-enabled non-player characters (NPCs) in your level range, you will receive an honorable kill. All your honorable kills for a week are then calculated to give you an honor score for that week, which then translates into an honor ranking. This honor ranking carries with it titles and material rewards, and eventually, officer status and other perks."

Comments

Not what I was hoping for.

[Spykk]

It doesn't matter so much now that I am approaching level 60, but I had hoped the honor system would function as a deterrent for people killing players half their level. It seems that no penalties will be introduced for dishonorable kills. If anything, this system will only exacerbate the problem. Large groups of players roaming about killing soloers will no doubt be the norm as the benefits for high honor seem very nice. If this system changes anything, it certainly won't be making things any more honorable. On the contrary, expect to be farmed like mobs once this goes live.

Re:Not what I was hoping for.

[NexusTw1n]

It's obvious the honour system is designed to stop quest griefing - keeping npc quest givers or vendors permanently dead so players can't peacefully quest.

It isn't designed to stop the slaughter of players, because that is what Blizzard intended to happen on PVP servers. If you don't like ganking, play on a PVE server.

I don't understand why so many people complain about high level players killing low level players - surely that is half the point of being bigger than everybody else?

I play on a PVE server, because I've played enough PVP muds to know that every game like this is ruled by kids with tons of free time, or the unemployed. They will kill anyone they can, whenever they can.

Playing PVP muds casually after work always means sticking with a large group for safety, or sneaking about doing quests hoping the bigger players don't notice me. I correctly assumed WoW wouldn't break this rule.

The only difference in WoW between PVP and PVE servers, is that ganking and corpse camping and general abuse of opposing factions is allowed and frankly pretty much encouraged by Blizzard on PVP but not PVE.
PVE still has player vs player combat, but it is honourable because you choose when and where to do it and you can't jump anyone who doesn't want to be attacked.

The fact that dishonour doesn't count against you when killing low level players, the fact there is a sticky on the BB stating that Corpse camping is perfectly acceptable shows that ganking is exactly what Blizzard intended to happen on PVP servers.

Which is why those of us who want to play for fun and relaxation, not spend hours getting angry and frustrated at bullying, have chosen Player Vs Enviroment with its optional PVP system.

Re:Not what I was hoping for.

[j0nb0y]

It isn't designed to stop the slaughter of players, because that is what Blizzard intended to happen on PVP servers. If you don't like ganking, play on a PVE server.
My issue is that when I decided to play on a PVP server on day 1, Blizzard had stated that the honor system would be put in RSN, and that killing lower level players would give you dishonor. Now, three months later, the honor system still isn't in, and it is revealed that you never get dishonor for killing other players. Oh well. I'm 56 now, and I'll be 60 by the time the honor system hits. Anyone who won't be 60 by then should move to a PvE server, because leveling from 50 - 60 will be pretty much impossible. The PVP honor system will use the same color system that PVE uses, so level 50 players will be green to level 60 players. So if you're running a lvl 50 char around trying to get xp, you're going to get ganked constantly.

Re:Not what I was hoping for.

[Mongoose Disciple]

Disclaimer: I'm not in any way taking a shot at the parent poster. This just seemed like an appropriate point to jump in on the discussion.

The first question that comes to my mind is, what do you think the concept of PvP is if not this?

In some ways it almost seems a little silly to me to implement PvP in a game like WoW, because the players who really want to play PvP aren't the same kinds of people who want to play a game like WoW.

I see people posting in this thread saying, in essence: "This PvP thing sucks because people will be trying to kill me when I'm trying to level." Personally, I think that's the beauty of it! You couldn't pay me to grind out the last handful of levels on most MMORPGs, even on WoW which has made the concept less frustrating in many ways -- but if I had to always be on my guard, ready for someone to try to jump me at any time? That's fun. Instead of level solely being a function of your time put in, in some small way it would reflect your skill, cleverness, even exploration talent. Level off mobs no one else has thought to try to get XP from and your chances of getting killed while doing so would be way lower than levelling on what everyone else does.

To a PvP player, the threat of player violence at any time isn't the end of the fun -- it's just the start of it!

Re:Not what I was hoping for.

[Wildclaw]

Actually, one of the big comments that Blizzard did during the final open beta was that the dishonor system had been abandoned because it was hard if not impossible to program a dishonor system that couldn't be abused.

More specifically, if you have a dishonor system the low level characters can hang around a higher level enemy waiting for their pray to become weak before attacking and the higher level guy can do nothing because of dishonor. There are ways to solve this problem but solving it causes other similar problems instead.

The biggest problem I think is that most people want PvE but choose PvP because they don't know that PvP is possible on PvE servers also, except that on PvE servers all PvPing is consentual.

PvP servers in MMORPGs will probably always be for hardcore players because that is what happens when you allow PvPing without limits in a level based RPG.

Another thing with WoW is that lots of people is playing it as their first MMORPG and many of those probably choose PvP servers. For more experienced MMORPG players that don't like griefing style play the choice of PvE was obvious. Games like UO, Everquest, etc. had already proven what WoW continues to prove.

Re:Not what I was hoping for.

[Slime-dogg]

If you are questing in STV, you really are nowhere close to lvl 50.

The higher level areas will have groups of lvl 60's running around just as well as your group, and it's possible that they use teamspeak. The other fun thing is that there could be a raid of lvl 60 people sitting around ganking players that are trying to get into BRD / BRS

I chose PvE on purpose, since it doesn't mean that PvP is completely dead... it just doesn't exist when I don't want it to. I'd rather not deal with the hassle. There are still plenty of raids that happen, and battlegrounds is pure PvP.

dishonorable kills :@

[whatsup_will]

Dishonorable Kills layer versus player battles are always best when played out between opposing forces of equal level. Thus, our system creates incentives to attack foes around your level. And it also does not reward those who kill players far below their level. If the player or PvP-enabled NPC you kill is trivial (i.e. gray to you), then you won't get an Honorable Kill. In fact, if you kill an NPC who is not PvP-enabled or who is PvP-enabled and trivial, you will gain a Dishonorable Kill. This exacts a penalty on those who, for whatever reason, kill trivial NPC bystanders. To make it easier to identify a potential Dishonorable Kill, such NPCs will be labeled as "civilians" in their tooltip. Note that dishonor does not apply to killing players, regardless of their level. As it stands now, when you accrue a Dishonorable Kill, it will not have a negative impact on your current honor ranking. You'll still get to see what the system considers a Dishonorable Kill, but you won't be assessed a penalty for it. At the moment, we don't want to penalize Dishonorable Kills because on normal (PvE) servers, the primary way to instigate PvP battles is through the attacking of NPCs. However, should enough PvP combat occur in Battlegrounds or if the number of Dishonorable Kills escalates to such a degree that it hampers general gameplay, we may well step in and institute a penalty for Dishonorable Kills.

ok, thats the reason i have stop playing this game, way to many people just running around at lvl 60 killing off lvl 50 and below.

Re:dishonorable kills :@

[cluke]

I hear you man. WoW is the first MMORPG I've really gotten into, and all the stories I've heard of griefing and generally idiotic behaviour in these sorts of games seems to be pretty much unfounded. Granted I do play RP PvE.
But... good God, the forums! I have never seen such a convergence of illiterates and whiners and intellectual sub-normals in my whole life! Are all MMORPGs forums like this? Anybody trying to decide whether to join the game based solely on the forums would surely be put off.

"omfg blizzard why u not nerf shamans my pally gets pwned in 1v1! omfg i am cancelling my account! this game sux! /bump this! need blue response!"

It makes me feel stupider just reading them.

We will see..

[BrookHarty]

There are a few problems WoW, its main goal is to get people preped for a endgame instances and Battlegrounds.

Basically you try for better armor/weapons (or do the same instances 1000 times waiting for a drop) on the same instances...

Then you goto Battlegrounds, and fight for better armor/weapons...

The only cookie in the game is the weapons and instances? Theres nothing beyond it, theres no real indepth RPG factor to the game. (Ok, some of the quests are entertaining, and a little RPG'ish)..

And the new PvP system has a few bugs, you get jumped by a 50 and you attack back you get dishonor? A lone 60 attacks a group of 50s and get dishonor? What happens when you dont play for a week or 2, you loose rank? What if you where doing instances? Too many issues still on PvP not explained.

Also currently, the Alliance outnumbers most servers 2/1, my server Bloodhoof is 10K Alliance vs 5K horde. What happens when Battlegrounds starts and its a limit of 200 vs 200? Alot of Alliance wont be able to play. That is my favorite, since currently Alliance raids towns with more people than can defend. Blizzard seems to want to stop all town raiding and move people to Battlegrounds, since its a dedicated server. Last time Alliance attacked our Horde city of Origmmar, they crashed the server. WTG. :)

While the graphics and gameplay is fun, the gameplay is locked into "fight, fight, heal some, fight" there isnt anything other than fighting . Farming is just fighting monsters for drops, same difference.

In SWG you can build a house, build things, put in it, trophies of sorts. But you have a private area, same with Anarchy Online. WoW has no such thing, its bascially, you, and a bank to store some stuff.

I was hoping for more RPG than hack and slash, while fun, gets old. I have lots of friends who came here from City of Heros burnt out, what happens when you realize you do the same thing over and over? Nothing, you move to the next MMORPG.

One of the Massive online games "Second Life" actually lets you build things, the flip side, you can build WAY too much, and less of the fun game. Its more social, you build, chat, play games (triva/etc), but no RPG hack and slash.. I think SIM's is about middle, but the tasks are a little stupid, and you feel too cartoonish.

I really want to see a game that includes both, the building aspect, the fighting aspect, the trophies, the content. I've been following www.mmorpg.com on newer games to see if anything is close.

WoW PvP is going to be the make it or break it for Blizzard, if they dont offer something for people to enjoy they will lose people to the new MMORPG's coming out. They have newer game engines, have new ideas, Space combat, Car combat, new D&D games, Matrix online, list goes on... so much stuff to keep people busy, 6 months before you figure out if the game has anything left to offer...

I know, i've spent way too much time playing WoW, more than most games in the past, I've been level 60 for awhile, leader of a guild (Since our leader left for a "Leet" guild.). Going on high end instances, about a month away from all our avereage guys making 60. Just in time for Battlegrounds, or limited raid parties.

I think Battlegrounds is going to be the saving grace for Blizzard, if it sucks, people are going to leave.

Re:We will see..

[Wildclaw]

There are lots of things to do in WoW. First let me mention the four core values that drive most people playing MMORPGs

Explorer/Achiver/Socializer/Killer

Most people don't exclusivly belong to one group but like do some of each. There are even tests you can do on the internet to find out how much of each group you belong to.

Explorers probably have it the best in WoW. There are lots of details in the world of warcraft. Blizzard has done a great job adding small details everywhere. The huge amount of quests with stories behind them is a further bonus for explorers. To finish it off blizzard has done a great job making each class require its own unique playing style. Rage/Energy for Warriors/Rogues was a brilliant idea.

Socializers are very much dependent on the community and less on the game. WoW is easy to solo which is bad for this group, however WoW also makes it easy to create temporary small groups which offsets the previous badness factor. Overall I would say that WoW is average for socializing.

Killers should enjoy WoW decently. The game has a rather quick pace for an MMORPG and decent skills are required to play your class proficently as well as to adept to the opponents class. The biggest problem for killers right now is the lack of any real competition. This is where Battlegrounds/PvP Ranking comes in. I agree that this will be important to keep Killers in the game. Otherwise they will be lost to another MMORPG or to a NON-MMORPG like guildwars which emphasizes skill.

Achievers are probably those least satisfied with WoW. This is the group that contains the most powergamers and by now most of them should probably have atleast one character at level 60. The reason achievers aren't happy with WoW is the same reason WoW is popular. WoW is far from the grind that games like Everquest/FF XI are. It is possible for casual gamers to reach the max level in WoW. Achievers despise this because they want to be better than the casual gamer because they spend more time in the game. They also have nothing to do once they have reached the max level because leveling is what they live for. Raids are still something to do, but there is only so much raid content.

A good deal of the achievers will probably jump ship and play another MMORPG instead but I am fine with that because a single game can't suit everyone. Blizzard knows that and will hopefully continue to support the more casual gamers. More high level content will come out but not at the rate the Achievers want.

If I sounded biased against Achievers in the above text, it wasn't really meant that way. It is just that they need to realize that games like Everquest is more suited for around the clock thread milling. The big selling point of WoW is that you don't have to be online 24 hours a day 7 days a week and a large amount of people are willing to pay for that.

Re:Hmm

[AsbestosRush]

It is well known that blizzard does very little original. They *are* known for getting the basics done well.

This is frustrating

[An Onerous Coward]

I've been resisting the desire to move over to an RP server for a long while now. One reason is that I know a couple of people on the PvP server I'm on right now. They play much more than I do, and have been sending me nifty stuff.

The other reason was that--real soon now--Blizzard would be implementing an honors system. I assumed that once it was installed, there would be some sort of punishment for people who ganked lower-level players.

That's what I want out of the honor system. Not epic armor, or ph4t l00t, or the chance to call myself "Grand Marshal" (I can do that anyways, thankyouverymuch). All I want out of it is a simple change in the game mechanics that provides a disincentive for high-level players to beat up on low-level players.

It looks like that's not going to happen, and that I don't have a temperament that enjoys the sort of crap being pulled on PvP servers. So I think it's time to put my characters into retirement, and move to an RP or RL* server.

* Real Life server. Much harder to farm for gold, the permadeath rules are worrying, and you never get an epic mount. But arguably the play is richer and more rewarding, and the server has zero latency and phenomenal uptime.

Effects on WOW Predicted

[cbuskirk]

1. You will almost always be grouping on a PVP server. Once this is in place it will be very hard to solo past level 30. Players will have incentive to kill you so you will want to be in a group to minimize this, and maximize you ability to kill players of the opposing faction.

2. Despite what anyone says, I believe that Blizzard is correct that this will decrease ganking of low level players. There will now be risk/reward in PVP. I don't run around killing level 10 creature because it is not worth my time. My time is better spent killing those creatures that can reward me for my kill with money or an item I can use. The same will apply with the honor system. I will be rewarded for seeking out players of my level to kill not those who are lower level. As for those players who still gank. Well lets just say that there are small children of all ages who need to kill weak people to feel big and no amount of dishonor would stop them anyways.

3. This will hold on to hardcore players. If Blizzard loses the hardcore players they loose their long term revenue stream. All the talk about casual players is well and good but they wont be around for the long haul. This is the kind of compelling ladder system that will keep those competitive players sticking around paying their $15 dollars a month for years to come. If they don't stick around the game will die out.

Re:some problems

[malf-uk]

"Among any enemies as bitter as the Horde and Alliance, there is honor. If you flaunt this honor and engage in objectionable PvP play such as killing new players vastly inferior to you in level, or killing essential non-combat NPCs such as flight masters or quest givers, you will earn dishonor"

Those were the PvP rules stated in Blizzard's own manual.

I was just saying that some people, myself included, are on PvP server mainly because that's where their mates are not out of a particularly strong desire to be permanently being ganked by pubescent dickheads.

I don't want the rules changed merely to accomodate myself and others who aren't hardcore PvPers, but I would like to see the dishonor system that we were told we would get.