Solaris 10 Installation and Desktop Walkthrough

linuxbeta writes "On OSDir they've got a whole whack of screenshots of Sun's Solaris 10 from the first boot screen, through an x86 installation, and through either a Java Desktop System 3 or CDE (Common Desktop Environment) 1.6 desktop. It's nice to have a look at Java Desktop System 3 while it's not even available for Linux (yet). I dunno... looks like Linux to me. I know about the licensing issues with Solaris 10, but I think they've got something going on here."

Comments

Glass

[Azadre]

What is to become of the looking glass theme I saw a while back? It was definately cutting edge.

Re:Glass

[blastwave]

See : http://java.com/en/everywhere/lookingglass.jsp

Re:Glass

[SlashdotOgre]

I spoke to one of the lead developers of JDS at LinuxWorld in SF over the summer and he had mentioned that the roadmap put JDS & Project Looking Glass meeting around the next iteration of Sun Java Desktop (JDS4). I don't know if that's still the plan, but you download the latest source of Project Looking Glass here: https://lg3d.dev.java.net/

Take this with a pinch of salt

[Rupy]

IMO the whole "Solaris has gone open source" is just too little too late.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[blastwave]

Well, I have been in the pilot project from the very beginning and there are builds of OpenSolaris up and running. We have the source and are working on a PowerPC port to the Open Desktop Workstation : http://www.pegasosppc.com/odw.php We all don't live in the Linux world. Some of us want an OS that can run on 128 simultaneous processors as well as one or four or twelve all with the same kernel. Not a cluster. One big computer.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[node 3]

IMO the whole "Solaris has gone open source" is just too little too late.

How so? Sun's revenue last year was over $10bn, and their move to open sourcing Solaris, some impressive new features in Solaris 10, and their work on the Java Desktop as well as Project Looking Glass all show they are not standing still.

Sun's move to open source can only help them on the desktop. Java Desktop is really slick for the corporate environment. Project Looking Glass could really pay off big for them if they are able to refine it properly (think about OS X's aqua interface. 3d has a lot of potential on the desktop).

And if Sun manages to move Solaris to 100% open source, expect it to be *huge* competition to Linux.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[SunFan]

They've actually been working on OpenSolaris for five years, and this summer it will be a genuine OSS _UNIX_. Not a work-alike UNIX but the real deal with more than two decades worth of production system use. It hasn't scaled to 64+ CPUs just this year, but more than five years ago. It hasn't just gotten solid virtualization technology, it's had it for years. For example.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhm, you might want to visit this web page. Or maybe this one.

"Scalable 64-Bit Production-quality Linux Platform" is about right. 128 simultaneous processors? They've been selling boxes that do that for a couple of years now. They run Linux. All with the same kernel. Not a cluster. One big computer.

More recently, they've been selling 256-way systems and made-to-order 512-way systems. One kernel.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[supersnail]

When a hardware company makes a big deal about how many cpus they can support with SMP, you know the processers are slow.

About 1996 when IBM had trouble ramping up the speed of thier Power chips, all the sales bumf emphasised how good the SMP performance was.

Now the positions are reversed. Solaris has to scale to 128 processers to compete with the competitions 32 processor systems. With the next generation of Opteron chips Linux only needs to scale to 16 processors to compete with 128 processor Solaris/Sparc system.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[jonadab]

> Well, I have been in the pilot project from the very beginning and there
> are builds of OpenSolaris up and running. We have the source and are working
> on a PowerPC port to the Open Desktop Workstation

That's all well and good, but it doesn't address the parent's point.

> Some of us want an OS that can run on 128 simultaneous processors as well as
> one or four or twelve all with the same kernel. Not a cluster. One big
> computer.

This does. I think Linux does do umpteen processors these days (though I
could be getting confused; I have no personal experience with such large
systems), but you're barking up the right general tree: the parent was
probably thinking in terms of the desktop (as, indeed, I have a tendency to
do myself), and as he notes, an open-source Solaris may indeed be too little
too late for the desktop. Server space is quite another matter, though.
Solaris is well respected there, especially for the relatively high-end stuff.

Solaris also has the best *name* of any operating system, ever :-)

I plan to experiment with Solaris a bit in VMWare, but in my case it's mostly
because I'm the sort of person who experiments with sundry OSes just for the
sake of experimenting. The high-end kind of scenerio you're talking about
has no direct and immediate relevance to my life.

Re:Take this with a pinch of salt

[The Man]

Now the positions are reversed. Solaris has to scale to 128 processers to compete with the competitions 32 processor systems. With the next generation of Opteron chips Linux only needs to scale to 16 processors to compete with 128 processor Solaris/Sparc system.

Opteron is great. We all love Opteron. But Opteron only supports 8 CPUs per system (3 HT ports per chip) without some really serious hackery, and even if that limitation were removed, a 16-Opteron (I assume you mean 16 cores) system wouldn't be faster than a 144-core F25K. Sun sells Opteron machines alongside SPARC, so if you think SPARC is too slow and/or expensive, just choose another machine.

Scalability, whether horizontal or vertical, has to be a property of all the components of a system or it's not really present at all. If a 16-CPU XXX machine were as fast as a 144-core starcat (Hitachi might be able to say that, but I doubt it), why wouldn't manufacturer XXX want to make a machine with 72 or 128 or 144 of those CPUs, and be 5 or 6 times as fast as the starcat? They would, of course. And when they figure out hardware scalability, they'll need an OS that will scale up with them.

But really, what's any of this got to do with Solaris? It runs on Opteron machines too, whether made by Sun or not, and 32-bit x86 machines if you're stuck in the 90s. For that matter, Linux will run on SPARC machines. x86 boxes - even 64-bit ones - aren't the competition for the starcats, regardless of what OS they run. The lesson here is that scaling up allows you to take advantage of more CPUs in any kind of machine. Sooner or later it will become practically impossible to clock CPUs any higher, and if you'd examined your argument at all - and its basis on multicore Opterons - you'd realize that we're pretty much there now, which is why every CPU manufacturer, not just Sun, is looking at CMT and multicore as the paths to increased performance in the future. This is not a fringe technology - every vendor including Intel and AMD clearly thinks it's important. If that turns out to be true, OS scalability and workload parallelism will be the limiting performance factors for nearly all computers. Not CPU clock rate. Regardless of what you think of SPARC, considering your implicit admission that even Opteron clocks won't increase without bound, you ought to recognize that Solaris is probably in a good position to take advantage of an important ongoing cross-market trend in hardware design.

Err...looks like Linux?

[deong]

Funny, I didn't see a picture of a kernel. It looks like Gnome, an event deemed less shocking by the fact that it is Gnome.

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[fm6]

I didn't see a picture of a kernel. It looks like Gnome...

You've never heard of Colonel Gnome?

Seriously, though, Java Desktop is just Sun's version of Gnome. They must of done something serious with it to justify charging $50 for it. Not clear what though.

Oh yeah, and it is available for linux.

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[Lisandro]

It is SO not. It's much uglier.. and... eh... it has a "Launch" button. Do you see a foot anywhere? I-didn't-think-so-mister!

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[tonyr60]

What $50? It is a free download, which also includes Star Office.

f course if you want support.....

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[Ohreally_factor]

You didn't bother to taste it. It had provocative hints of BSD, and a nutty aftertaste reminiscent of Warp.

Yeah, I thought that was an incredibly dumb comment, too, and I haven't RTFA.

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[SunFan]

I'm typing this comment from my _free_ downloaded Solaris 10 with JDS3, right now. Great system, but just like other GNOME/KDE desktops, don't skimp on your RAM, though. Any computer better than say a 400MHz Pentium with 256MB should be okay (not super but okay).

Probably the best aspect of JDS3 is that everything is pretty well integrated, clearly laid out, and there are few problems with it. It really is as easy to use as Windows. It comes with Acroread, Mozilla, Evolution, and Staroffice, among other things, too. Add Moneydance for covering finances, and it really can replace Windows for a lot of people.

With these sorts of GNOME/KDE desktops maturing, Microsoft really needs to get their ship in order!

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[SunFan]

Oh, BTW, don't forget to finish off the system with Blastwave. They provide a BSD-like package retriever that's integrated with Solaris' package system. Pretty slick.

Re:Err...looks like Linux?

[blackest_k]

The strangest notion grammar and spelling nazi's have is that English is one language with one set of rules.

English is a set of languages with regional and cultural sets of rules. When English first came to be printed an east anglian variation was used not because it was the correct form but because it was the form spoken and written by the printer.

English is a living language, that is it evolves and mutates as it is being used. That mutations occur is nothing new, which is why older written records in English can be difficult to comprehend.

Your form of English usage maybe correct to you and it might be the case that for you to accept me as a member of your social group I should form my words in the manner to which you are familiar with, but since I am not aspiring to join your social group I am not in error, you are. Since you seem to believe I wish to speak and write the same English variant as you.

If you were to compare two structured precise languages such as C++ and Java you might see a simularity in the code but java is not badly written C++ nor is C++ badly written java.

I can understand how distressing it must be for people, who are trained and write in a language with a precise syntax such as C++ or Java. People who find bueaty in the precise elegant expression of Idea's within a programming environment to have to come to grips with a language which has no such constraints.

English is buggy code gentlemen, Live with it.

Text Based Install

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see the output of a non GUI installation. Makes me have the warm fuzzies more seeing that.

Screenshots of an OS install...what next?

[Kenrod]

Screenshots of the writer defragging his hard drive?

Re:Screenshots of an OS install...what next?

[Kethinov]

Or a screenshot of a slashdotter posting a message to slashdot?

Indeed

It looks like it's running through vmware

[drewz]

Did anybody notice - it's running through vmware http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?re lease=279&slide=4

Re:It looks like it's running through vmware

[drxray]

That makes it a hell of a lot easier to take screenshots when you're booting.

Re:It looks like it's running through vmware

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

Not to mention a lot less "Lose all contents of your drive." Solaris is a stuck up bitch and won't go out with scrubs who can only give her a partition.

Re:It looks like it's running through vmware

[Metzli]

I don't know, taking "screenshots" of my boot sequences are pretty easy, they're logged by the terminal server. Then again, I see no reason to run a GUI on my Solaris servers.

Re:Another name for Java Desktop 3 is ....

[thryllkill]

Don't be such a troll. I use gnome everyday. It has a foot print looking thing. This one says JAVA right there instead of the foot. I hate having to point everything out for everyone all the damn time.

Default CDE desktop

[moonbender]

What the heck - are they kidding? The default desktop background looks like on of those 3D images, which is to say it looks like ass. Maybe there's a subliminal message, I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't want that as my desktop background. Of course, the fact that CDE is running on top of it doesn't help. Sorry if I seem harsh, I'm still not sure if it's a joke. OTOH maybe I'm the only one who doesn't like it...

Re:Default CDE desktop

[back_pages]

I heard one of the advanced features, available if you buy the upgraded deluxe version, is the ability to switch to a desktop background that ISN'T the default. So yeah, it's ugly, but if you fork over the premium dollars, then you can afford cutting edge, never-before-seen technology like switching the desktop background. (I heard there is some 1337 hacker trick to do this in Windows, but let's not kid ourselves - it's impossible with such a rudimentary OS!)

Here comes the sun!

[Error629]

Eh, it's alright.

I installed it

[delirium of disorder]

(Since this article is almost a re-post, my comment is too)

Solaris 10 is a great technical computing or server OS. GNU/Linux has some advantages over it, for example debian's package system and free organisation. Overall Linux is easier to get up and running. Knoppix is trivial to boot. Paths and default executable placement are simpler in Linux. Linux is more ported. X11 support seams better in most Linux distros. (X worked fine thoughout my install, but when i rebooted, my display was messed up and I had to console login and set X to a lower resolution) Virtual consoles are a big plus when X gets messed up, and solaris misses them badly.

But Solaris has some cool features. Zones, dtrace, exellent SMP support, and surprisingly, a great price/performance ratio. I donno how well sun will do (I would guess they'll make some money in the short term on Opeteron systems and probably in the long term with Fujitsu massivly multi-core SPARC). But the current market for used sun workstations/servers is great because of Sun's overall decline. I was able to get (on ebay) a quad 450mhz ultrasparcII box with 2 gigs of ram, and dual 36 gig scsi drives, quad redundent power supples (800 watt), etc: for a measily $200. Solaris 10 installed great. Sun hardware is built to withstand hell and admins, students, hobbiests, or whoever, who normally couldn't afford this quality should really check it out. I also actually like CDE and the old Motief look. It's clean, simple, easy to work with, and doesn't try to be Microsoft Windows or MacOS.

Re:I installed it

[Metzli]

I'm curious, what about the paths and default executables do you find difficult in Solaris? I'll agree that /usr/ccs/bin appears goofy for the compiler (to me, at least), but I don't see what's odd about everything else. Then again, I'm used to running Solaris, AIX, Tru64, etc. and Linux seems weird to me. I expect most of my optional software to be self-contained, say in /opt, and not scattered about various other dirs. But, that's just my opinion.

Re:I installed it

[rs79]

What we seem to want of an OS these days (besides GPL) is:

1) Runs well as a server
2) Runs well as CLI desktop
3) Runs ok as a desktop of you like to fiddle
4) Works seamless with random peripehrals (ie OSX)

I already know it does 1 and 2 better than (gasp) PC BSD, I'm assuming 3) but until it's at 4) Apple will continue to sell a lot of hardware. That's gonna be the one to beat and as OSX gets better (hire Brian Reid, you morons) Apple as a unix distro company will continue it's ascendancy despite the hardware lock-in.

Solaris' legendary stabiity and Apple's seamlessness and interface will be a great mix; I don't predict Linux or even BSD beating Sun there, I think Apple won this and will continue on an upward trest and will eventually dominate unix sales, again, despite the hardware lock in.

As somebody that could only use school's Unix (by '76 you could use it at almost every university if you poked around enough to find it and asked for an account, thank you Rob Beach) as they were the only ones who could get it, the choices we have today are stunning. There is no news and even less product coming out of Microsoft for a change, they wowed the world with their basic, c, msdos, windows, desktop apps and an almost endless series of bizarre mutations of windoes 3.1, (in tha order) none of which worked, but now they're done and we can get back to where we should have been in the early 80's before every asshole bought a computer - making unix ubiquitous, usable and cheap if not free by a generation that grew up with unix and wndows and know what things should look like and how they should properly work. Now that they're old enough to have some sway in the corporate world we're finally seeing some decent product, choices and pricing. It's quite refeshing.

Whereas in 1984 Digital Research sold operating systems (CP/M) and Microsoft sold languages (BASIC, later C that they'd bought) the unwritten truce was broken when DR went into langauages; MS decided to compete in the OS arena, the rest is PC history. Apple did that to sun by selling unix machines, Sun is now selling Mac's (buy your own hardware, ok). Solaris on an Apple now riases inertresting questions. Sun selling $500 OSX workalines even more. Bout friggin time boys, I could buy a color Apollo in 68K 87 for $3K and its taken you this long to even think about it? This is why Apollos were better than suns; Suns vision has always been the campus terminal room. That's finally changed. My God, it's full of... consumers.

Uinx had a rough sart of of the box; Bell Labs owned it, period and it took years of things like BSD and lawsuits to get it to the point where anybody could have it. But now in a world where there is Sun, Apple and the geek distros of unix (MS will get into the unix distro market eventually, they're just being more stubborn than they were about the internet, that's all) there is finally a criteria and to get work done sensibly instead of wowing the readers of PC Magazines cheap ad section and reviews. And the reasons colleges all switched to unix back then even though they had perfectly good legacy apps on their (GCOS, OS/360, etc) legacy systems was they a) could use unix and b) could get more work done due to it's elgance and simplicity. // execute my ass

But mom and pop have never had their chance. General PC flakines and current availability of OSC and soon Mini-Sun boxes that give you decent access to the music, video, camera, et. al. domain will change that.

As microsofts inept technology fades into oblivion with only their user base to keep them relevant, the next war is the home unix applance; unix may or may not be transparent to the user; for explicitly non-transparent ones there is not much serious competition for the everyman-better-UI than-windows-system but that changes now when people can buy workable unix-for-home from companies that are ancient in computer years.

Oh my what a lovely war it will be.

Gates deserv

Still with CDE?

[Coryoth]

Oh dear, CDE, what has become of you? Apparently nothing has changed since the mid 90's. Can anyone honestly tell me that they've looked through the CDE and JDS (GNOME) screenshots and would choose CDE? I've used CDE. It works well enough, but it really is lacking in functionality compared to GNOME.

Is it really that hard to transition people off CDE? Are there actually that many people that are that heavily wedded to CDE? Provide some legacy support, sure, but shouldn't GNOME (aka JDS) be the default by now? Why are they still mentioning CDE as anything other than a minor product they've attached on some extra CDs as support for legacy users?

Jedidiah.

Re:Still with CDE?

[cortana]

It's not all text. Each library will have a per-process segment for stack and heap, which therefore can not be shared between users.

Re:Still with CDE?

[cortana]

In theory it's piss all. In practice, developers are lazy. Readers of planet.gnome.org will have noticed the recent drive to reduce Gnome's memory footprint. For example, until a couple of days ago, every copy of nautilus maintained several copies of the desktop background in memory, so there's an instant 10-15 MB penalty per session. Pango and freetype were likewise egregious offenders.

I just came up with this rather nasty shell script to find out how much memory on my machine is being used for non-code segments in my processes:

sum=$(for pid in $(ps aux | awk '$1 == "sam" {print $2}');
do cat /proc/$$/maps | while read addr prot junk;
do test $prot = 'r-xp' && continue;
start=$(echo $addr | sed 's/-.*//');
end=$(echo $addr | sed 's/.*-//');
echo $(( 0x$end - 0x$start ));
done;
done | while read x;
do echo + $x;
done)
echo $(( ($sum) / 1024 / 1024 ))
155

So my session is currently using up 155 MB of non-sharable memory. Actually, this seems rather low, given that I have firefox, thunderbird and azureus all chugging away. Maybe /proc/$pid/maps doesn't show the mmap'd sections that libc creates for large mallocs or something...

Can code segments even be shared between processes on i386? I seem to remember reading somewhere that they can't (or, in Linux, aren't)... and looking in /proc/something/maps I can't see *any* segments marked as sharable. They're all r-xp (readable, executable, private; code segments) or rw-p (readable, writable, private; data segments).

Re:Still with CDE?

[SunFan]

One of the absolutely huge advantages of Sun over, say, Red Hat, is that Sun doesn't pull the carpet out from under their users every three years. OpenWindows stuck around until Solaris 9, I think, which means CDE is good to be around for quite some time. Sun always provides predictable transitions and always documents what will happen in advance for customers to plan ahead.

Sun also has a good record for maintaining compatibility to older versions of Solaris. I was quite pleased to see that older SunPCi IIpro cards can still work under Solaris 10 with JDS (with Windows 98, at least). Officially, these cards are supported only up to Solaris 9.

If I were running a big shop with my behind accountable for more than a year in the future, Sun is not a bad bet.

Mirrors that work

[compm375]

http://mirrordot.com/stories/48ae8a91c0515178981a2 23b6721551b/index.html
http://mirrordot.com/stories/bd9596e27c5d2177fc81b 2a5512c1927/index.html
http://mirrordot.com/stories/1ffb4724d2b03ba41edc9 790016d2b3c/index.html
http://mirrordot.com/stories/e1f77e936894905cc5b8d 90e96d46066/index.html
http://mirrordot.com/stories/48ae8a91c0515178981a2 23b6721551b/index.html
http://mirrordot.com/stories/b6d219bc646a2c95a1da6 66659518e10/index.html

Real Picture of Kernel

[NoGuffCheck]

sorry here is the real picture

My own Solaris 10 experience

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed it and was basically extremely disappointed in it as a desktop. I imagine it's actually quite good as a server, but the interface is just nowhere near the level of GUI integration that something like Ubuntu or Fedora have. That is the ultimate appeal of Linux to me. It can (potentially) have the same level of GUI integration that Windows has, yet much, much greater flexibility, openness, security, stability, and eventually usability. It's actually really getting close. As soon as a project like http://www.autopackage.org makes some more strides and gets near universal acceptance among distributions and application developers, it could actually be there finally. As much as I had really high hopes for Solaris 10, it's just not going to cut it. Among other things, I think Sun really needs to fire whoever is in charge of marking and branding for the company. It's fine if you want to have your corporate colors as yellow and purple, but for god's sake, please keep those colors away from my desktop AND applications!

Re:My own Solaris 10 experience

[tonyr60]

" I played with it on a test box for a few months."

Which suggests you were using an earlier beta/Express version. In which case try the GA release, it is faster.

Re:Solaris for the masses?

[Mdalek]

But is there any way that Solaris has a chance to grow enough to become any kind of threat to MS?

What? People run Windows on big iron?

Upon further scrutiny...

[itistoday]

we have determined that the only difference between Sun's Solaris OS and Microsoft's Windows OS, is the executive decision to refer to the computer as "This Computer".

Re:Upon further scrutiny...

[elmegil]

Yeah, that's why Microsoft scales to...let's see...8 cpus or so (or was it maybe 16 more recently?), and Solaris scales to...128+. Yeah, I'd say those are functionally equivalent.

Re:Upon further scrutiny...

[Metzli]

Actually, Windows 2003 Datacenter scales to 32 processors. Still much less than Solaris. Still Windows.

Install Walkthrough

[Metzli]

vi /etc/ethers
vi /etc/hosts
add_install_client
boot net - install

There you are, the installation walkthrough for jumpstarting Solaris. Tune in for our next episode, when we cover logging onto the console.

Should be Openlook

[bluGill]

Speaking as an old school sunOS fan (Anything pre-Solaris), CDE was almost as big a mistake as going sysV for Solaris. Openlook was much better. I never even looked at CDE, it was so ugly on my neighbor's desktop. (I was one of the last to get rid of the ELC off my desk, one of the downsides of being a intern, so I didn't have it as an option for years after a few switched to it)

Other features?

[lewiz]

I'd be much more interested to know how Solaris 10 handles things like:

CD/DVD writing,
wireless cards,
PCMCIA/Cardbus devices,
USB hotswapping (i.e. does it pop up and say you've plugged a USB HDD in and offer to mount it?),
Input types (i.e. Japanese, Chinese, etc.).

I've recently been trying out many Linux distros (FC3, SuSE 9.2, Mandrake (latest -- 10.1?), Gentoo and Debian) to check out how well they handle these things. So far I've been most impressed with Ubuntu. As a long-time FreeBSD user I have been very impressed how things have advanced with Linux in the last four or five years.

I'm aware how well Solaris 10 cuts it in the server arena but does it even come close to the likes of FC, SuSE and Ubuntu for desktop use?

Re:Other features?

[Zemplar]

Try the "hoary" release of Ubuntu! It's a great improvement over "warty" even though it is not yet officially released. I've been running the hoary codebase for a few months and it's certainly stable enough, IMHO, for general desktop use.

http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/releases/hoary/curr ent/

Give it a try!

Re:Perfect OS world

[hazah]

This isn't flaimbait!

And you don't have to have another layer in front of the apps to concieve such interoprability. You just need to follow standards. Preferably ones that make sense. There are many techniques, and a virtual environment is just one of them.

Re:Perfect OS world

[ky11x]

ROFL.

This may be the start of a new type of troll on /. You are really inspired. Look at all the people who are biting. I'm amazed.

This is like a combination of the "is it good or is it whack?" troll with a dash of universal "your os sucks" troll sprinkled with a bit of "not trying to be a troll here but can someone explain to me ..."

and you even manage to add in a signature troll. WOW. You are good.

Seriously....

[asaul]

"Look like linux" - what exactly does "linux" look like? Oh, you mean it looks like GNOME, which is available on Solaris and Linux and probably a host of other UNIX operating systems....

"know about the licensing issues" - what is that supposed to mean? That because it doesnt use GPL but another OSI approved license it is an "issue"?

"Have something going on here" - well, if that aint flamebait I dont know what is. Yes, Sun have a high quality OS that integrates GNOME and a host of other FOSS software with appropriate licensing and acknoledgements and because you think it looks like _your_ "linux" desktop (and not KDE or blackbox or fvwm or tvm) they are supposedly doing something dastardly?

And really, if OS install snapshots were news worthy, whatever you do dont look at docs.sun.com, there are just too many consipiricies there to report!

Re:Seriously....

[xgamer04]

what exactly does "linux" look like?

Like this:

"... 1010111000110 ..." (note: I'm sure that in with the size of the kernel these days, this bin string will probably come up somewhere. I hope.)

Re:pxe boot from linux?

[asaul]

Try this:

http://www.docbert.org/Solaris/Jumpstart/linux.h tm l

The author knows what he is talking about - I havent tried it myself but this ought to be what you need.

Re:Solaris for the masses?

[digitalchinky]

Sun will not go under any time soon, unless they monumentially screw up by way of corporate corruption or some such - they have more government contracts across the world than I have hairs on my head. (ok, so my hairline is receeding a touch, but I still have hair)

DSD has sun workstations numbering in the thousands, plus a few hundred servers etc, etc, etc. These aren't going away any time soon. There are still sparc 5's and lower doing a fine job for their function. When a single workstation might cost upwards of $10,000 AU - that's quite an investment, even if it is at taxpayer expense.

(More than a few workstations are enterprise level machines)

Re:Huge competition?

[Space Coyote]

People who have used Linux want something that THEY have worked on, THEY have started. The number of people who have actually 'worked on' linux, as compared with the potential market of users that Sun is thinking about, is very very small. And as the takeup of OS X among the Unix crowd shows, people want usability and new technology over some ideological purity that Linux / GPL seem to worry about. Most people who just want to get work done are rather more pragmatic about their software. As for Linux, though, Sun has shown that they are willing to use it where it makes sense to , and are just as happy to charge you for their services whether you want to run them on an AMD system running linux or one of their big Sparc machines. Besides that, I'm guessing Java Desktop will eventually find a happy home on Linux as well as Solaris.

I too installed it

[reachbach]

I installed S10 on a test box at office, and the installation was pretty cool. If you want to compare it to linux for "user friendliness" of the installer, well,i'm afraid you're on the wrong track.Because, if you're talking about an installer made for a dumb user (as tech ignorant as your grandmom), you're tending towards windoze. You don't even deserve to be posting here on /.
In addition,it was good to see the slick JDS3. Two things stood out after the installation of S10 -
1) The installer was a lot easier than was made out by S10-flamers at /.
2)S10 is not just for admins who telnet to the machine and issue arcane incantations. JDS3 make S10 a strong candidate for a corporate desktop. Add a Sun Ray to it, and you have a sure-fire windoze killer.
And running my apps on S10 has been, without doubt, one of the greatest joys of life.There isn't enough room here on /. for me to describe the sheer thrill that i experienced when my first DTrace script gave an inside look into the system resources that my app was consuming. The rush of adrenalin has to be experienced to be believed. And if you want to learn operating systems from scratch, Solaris is your reference manual. Sun deserves countless belssings for such a beauty of an implementation. Long live Solaris!!!

Re:Huge competition?

[node 3]

Having another open source OS is great, but if you think the two compete against each other you're wrong.

Sure they do. They compete for both users and developers. This sort of competition seems far more noble than the nature of competition in the corporate world, but it's still competition nonetheless.

Almost as if you started to build a garage, your neighbor saw you and wanted to RACE, and finish one before you did. ooooh, WHO CARES.

Yeah, I guess the XFree86 folks don't care that everyone's moving to Xorg. Or the GNOME folks wouldn't care if everyone but them ran KDE. I also recall the Firefox team taking out an ad in the NYT asking people to try Firefox.

People who have used Linux want something that THEY have worked on, THEY have started. SUN is getting into this to compete with companies that USE Linux, the people developing it usually don't care.

What do you mean by, 'People who have used Linux...'? You clearly don't mean everyone who has used Linux, because that's obviously false. In fact, very few people who use Linux actually contribute to it.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with whether or not Solaris competes with Linux.

Besides the point, usually two open source projects will BENEFIT from each other. Gnome, X, Mozilla, Konqueror as in with Apple, etc.

I'm certain they will benefit from each other. That doesn't mean they don't also compete.

Re:Solaris for the masses?

[cold fjord]

Sorry, but that is more of a hardware issue than a software issue, at least up to 32 CPUs. There aren't many PCs/Windows boxes made that take more than 8 CPUs. Unisys is one of the few (only?) manufacturers that make them.

I will also point out that there are a lot of Linux based datacenters that look exactly like your description of a Windows datacenter.

Re:Solaris for the masses?

[cold fjord]

At least before Sun goes under, and it becomes a drain on Linux developers.

Like FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Darwin, etc., are "drains" on "Linux developers"?

Actually it is more like the reverse. Sun has underwritten the NFS v4 implementation that is in the Linux 2.6 kernel, as well donated large amounts of code that help make Linux stronger, like Open Office, Internationalization code for X, etc. If it wasn't for Sun, Linux would be weaker. A large amount of useful code in Linux today is only there due to the charity of large companies like Sun, IBM, SGI, etc..

Re:Umm, there's something missing

[asaul]

Sun Mangement Console has replaced admintool - its a little heavy on the Java but it does what you want - admin in a GUI: /usr/sbin/smc

Re:Their stock is $4 per share...

[node 3]

'm no stock analyst, but the trend that leads up to Sun's peak (96-2000) is mirrored in the performance over the last 2 years..

And their stock is $4. Four. Not $40, like Apple (whose stock follows a similar trend, only theirs went up an octave..)

Here's the comparison between SUNW and AAPL:

SUNW v AAPL

Note that your description of Sun's chart is the same as for Apple's. You'll also note Sun's maket cap is over $15bn.

Sun is by no means on the brink of scrapping Solaris.

All you've done is shown that Apple is in better shape than Sun, which is something of an odd thing to do when comparing Solaris to Linux.

Re:Install (from scratch) still a PITA

[starfishsystems]

I'm not sure what specifically would have given you trouble, and you don't enlighten us with much detail. Perhaps the experience was a bit overwhelming.

Don't worry. I've been doing them for 20 years now, probably done a few thousand in that time on maybe twenty or thirty different hardware platforms. Never had a problem, and I tell you, it's all about having a system. That's what you have to do, figure out a system. And then never, never, depart from it, no matter what the voices say. Just be cool.

Sure, I admit that I'm tempted sometimes to just type random stuff, but I've been totally able to control myself, no problem, just answer the questions. Ever since they took me out of detox the last time. I didn't like it there. It's not just the smell, it's the people. They have such a bad attitude. They're not positive. I need positive energy.

I had to know a few things, like what language I spoke, what timezone I was in, did I want to install everything or just a basic workstation. It is all a bit irritating, I admit. You'd think the installation script would just know that stuff. After all, it's pretty pathetic. It's like you're stupid or something.

I wish it would ask me some hard questions when it did its localization, like whether there really were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, whether my girlfriend would really like to be in a threesome or is she just saying that to see if I'm faithful, whether virus recognition merely NP-hard (as someone once tried to argue with me) or formally undecidable.

I don't think I'm a "certified Solaris Installation Engineer"; certainly I never had any training. Maybe there was some kind of coupon in the packaging that granted me that title automatically. Sorry if Sun didn't ship you one of those, because I don't see why you wouldn't be equally qualified to reason about the questions asked during system installation. I know I am. I'm cool. I've got the system. Figured it out. Figured it out.

But then, I don't usually eat the dessicant pack either. Though it does look kind of edible, doesn't it? Those sparkly little crystals and all... Could be good, and how can you know for sure if you don't try them? The label clearly states "DESSICANT -- DO NOT EAT" but that's probably just legalese. See if they can suck you in, right. They all try that. It's a power thing. Don't fall for it.

Re:Alright

[iamacat]

Your insides must be running Windows. Have a care not have your security breached through any holes.

Seriously, there are better ways to launch a program than navigating huge hierarchical menus, praying your mouse doesn't wobble and lose couple of levels. Windows 95, NextStep and MacOSX each introduced serious improvements in usability of computers, but why stop innovation there and just rip off old ideas?

I wrote a little program for Mac that I think is easier to use than either Start menu or Dock. Not a rocket science or even a new idea, but I am not the one with billions for research. I am sure modern processing power, new technologies and research can yield interfaces that don't look anything like Xerox PARC and are dramatically more productive. Keyboards with dynamically changing LED key labels? Fuzzy logic to recognize faster, inexact user commands? Some hybrid of UI and command line to let user see information from many programs in a small space? I don't know, but Sun and Microsoft should find out.

Re:Huge competition?

[rs79]

" And as the takeup of OS X among the Unix crowd shows, people want usability and new technology over some ideological purity"

Bingo.

"Linux is dying - Netcraft".

Sincerely
Bee S. Dee.

Just installed on Ultra-60

[CrazyWingman]

I know I'm a bit late in the conversation, but anyway...

It's amazing that this story is up today, as I just spent the weekend loading Solaris 10 on my Ultra-60. It had been running Debian, but I thought it might be fun to run Sun's OS on Sun's hardware. :)

I have run Solaris 8 in the past. That just seemed like a bunch of junk to me. The main problem was that my main "unix" experience was Linux and IRIX. So, missing most of the commands and options I wanted, I was a bit dissapointed.

I'd just like to say, though, that it looks like Sun really has done quite a bit of work on this new version. The only reason it took me "all weekend" to install Solaris 10 was that the only SCSI CD-ROM drive I have is a 1x or 2x, and I can't trust my x86 box to stay up for longer than an hour any more (it's had a _rough_ life). The install process itself, though, is easy.

Once installed, I fiddled around a bit as root to make sure everything was working. I stuck with CDE for root loggin, just in case something was broken in JDS. CDE is exactly the same as it has always been, for those worried about it. I used the Sun Management Console to setup a new user - slick. The only thing I don't like about SMC is that it seems a bit lacking on features. What it has is good, but I think there could be a lot more in there.

With my normal user created, I logged in and setup JDS. I had been running Gnome in Debian, so I was pleased with how my desktop was setup. It runs very nicely. A bit of logging on to the web, and I had added Firefox. A bit more tooling around, and I had my printer working. It really does seem like Sun has gone to the trouble of making the things that people commonly do easy to do, or at least making them function like they would in other environments.

Now the only thing I'm missing is a way to move the data that I had in Linux over to the Solaris partition. Unfortunately I was using ext2/3 in Linux, so I can't mount it out of the box. I've found the LXRUN utils, but they say they're for x86. Probably a bit of hacking away at source code in my future. We'll see if that's even possible. If anyone here has a better idea - post it?

Next up for this machine: second processor and more RAM. Then maybe a SunPCi board ... just because I can. :)

Re:Yeah....

[Minwee]

It's almost as good as a Debian desktop with the Red Hat logo on it.

Re:Okay really, why OpenSolaris over Linux?

[Zemplar]

Perhaps for a more secure kernel, a faster kernel, a more "advanced" kernel, ZFS (soon), dtrace, zones, etc...

Admittedly the current desktop implementation is lagging from some Linux distos, but this is arguably easier to "fix" than rewrite a kernel.