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What Can Yahoo Do To Compete with Google?
ryanjensen writes "Jay Currie over at Tech Central Station has an article up about Yahoo's pending entrance into the AdSense advertising market, and outlines some things Yahoo (and MSN for that matter) can do to compete, including: Paypal payouts, revenue share transparency, rewarding quality (but small) publishers, and offering an alternative to "keyword bids" for advertisers." It should be noted that Yahoo has already been fighting Google on this front - Overture, owned by Yahoo!, has been running an Ad-Sense like program for a while.
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Clean up its portal or offer a simple search site without any excessive links.
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Quit tracking every damn thing I do on their site
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Stop sending me specific advertisements based on where I go instead of what I search
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Quit favoring select commercial companys in Yahoo! Mail to bypass the "Bulk folder".
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Clean up their Privacy policy.
Seriously though, has anyone read their privacy page? It's worse than AOL's AIM TOS.To quote a few of their policies:
Yahoo! automatically receives and records information on our server logs from your browser, including your IP address, Yahoo! cookie information, and the page you request.
Yahoo! uses information for the following general purposes: to customize the advertising and content you see, fulfill your requests for products and services, improve our services, contact you, conduct research, and provide anonymous reporting for internal and external clients. aka "Sell your habits as an anonymous client to advertisers
These companies may use your personal information to help Yahoo! communicate with you about offers from Yahoo! and our marketing partners.
The list goes on and on. That is the main reason I try to stay away from Yahoo!.
I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
...is clean up their homepage. There is so much going on on I get scared just looking at it. Who can digest that much info? You almost need a search engine for the Yahoo homepage.
Don't compete with Google! I've been a long term fan of Yahoo because it's the Jack of all trades, even if it is the master of none. One Yahoo account comes with a lot of features!
...they stop sucking? The reason why I hate Yahoo is that they're still doing that stupid portal-crap that really annoys the crap out of me. I hate spending twenty minutes on a site looking for the right link - even though obviously the Yahoo execs still think that it's the bomb.
If I spend more than twenty seconds on a site without finding what I'm looking for - I leave the site. My time is worth more than navigating some stupid portal.
Seriously, it's 2005 now. Stop with the portal-crap in order to keep visitors there and start with some content.
I enjoy large posteriors and I cannot prevaricate.
I've been using Adsense on a fairly small website with about 150 unique views per day. I am not their prime customer. What gets me though is the fairly (and increasing) occurences when clicked ads (and not public service ads) earn me 0 cents, or even 1 cent. Another issue is also with google I am required to make $100 before I get each cheque, any system that kept paying me every $5 or so would definetly get me switching!
http://www.sandstorming.com
As an adsense publisher and an active member of the publisher community I can speak for us all in saying that our number one concern is that we are treated like numbers and in turn treated as a dispensable asset. Publishers can be making great money one day and banned from adsense the next for 'suspicious activity regarding click fraud'. Yahoo needs to show publishers that they appreciate our business. Also, setting a minimum CPC on my webpage would make me happy. Just have it default to my own backup ads if nothing can be served based on the content.
I'm not sure Yahoo wants to implement an AdSense-like program. Is anyone else expecting some big blowout in regard to AdSense in the near future? The system appears (to me) to be so rife with fraud with Google having no idea how to combat it. Every monkey that knows how to spell "mesothelioma" is setting up a site hoping to cash in on the high cost per click.
The costs per click used to be very high but as more and more scammers jump on board using various anonymous proxy servers to initiate fake clicks, the costs per click are plummeting pretty rapidly.
To see various costs per click on Overture (you can't see Google's AdSense exact amounts) go to Overture Cost Per Click.
I'm a big tall mofo.
The Yahoo! Developer Kit has been very easy to use and very powerful. XML services are the future (or present, depending on how bloody you like your edge) of the web.
I Want To Believe
Yahoo could let you put per-page targetted phrases on the page. So in the advert code you could put "Chocolate Confectionary;Wooden Clackers;Pink Pajamas" and if Yahoo hasn't analysed the page yet it serves up an add for Chocolate Confectionary, Wooden Clackers or Pink Pajamas....
There are lots of sites that generate pages on the fly, but Google can't serve up an ad until its parsed the page, so the first showing of that page (the most important) shows no adverts.
Same with general news site, context analysis is terrible for general news, it would be better to let the new site specify the keyphrases on a per-page basis.
Isn't the real question "What can Google do to become more like Yahoo?"
Obviously, no user of Google wants that to happen. But now that Google is a public company, you can expect them to wring every last drop of shareholder value out of their various and many properties:
local.google.com
maps.google.com
images.google.com
scholar.google.com
answers.google.com
catalogs.google.com
www.froogle.com
www.keyhole.com
etc, etc, etc.
In other words, expect the Google start page at some point in the future to look even more cluttered than Yahoo's.
I'm a big tall mofo.
The list is absolutely easy to someone with half a brain (not yahoo management, apparently):
1) Innovate. While this might seem like a no brainer, yahoo hasn't fixed what is already broken on their own service for some time now. A good example of this would be their stock message boards, which fill with spam and garbage immediately.
Try CSCO for example. It looks like a circus in that message board. Google will walk into this market because people are simply dying for something usable. Yahoo has dominance right now but they will lose that easily because they are satisfied with "good enough".
2) Make all services open and extensible. Mainly, this means that they should stop requiring someone to open yet another unused email account in order to use their services. I already have half a dozen unused email accounts and I don't need another. It would be great if I could use my existing email account for access to IM, Yahoo auctions, etc. But I don't use these services because I don't want to bother with another email account.
3) Promote an open web. VoIP is just now taking off. The world could use, for example, a free, standards based VoIP client for Windows, Linux, etc. Yahoo could gain many friends if they released a non-yahoo specific client. Certainly, they'll have to make money on it some how but I think that they could make more by keeping it open and not bundled with a service. Perhaps offer their own as a default, or whatever.
The bottom line is that they need to adopt google's "do no evil" plan. I could go on all morning with examples.
More
Yahoo turned me away long ago because it insists on using flashy, annoying, intrusive, and irrelevent ads. Plain and simple, Google got it right: Provide targeted, non-intrusive ads.
Frankly, I find Yahoo's ad presentation to be annoying at best. I visit pages for the intended content, not the ads, and yes, ads often pay for the content. But, present them in a way that insults my intelligence, and I'll walk. Instead, present them in a way that makes me want (not have) to view the ads, and you have me at hello...
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
how about...they stop sucking?
:(
That's a bad advice... It costed me a boyfriend.
Provide a service similar to Google Groups. It can be of value even though the last 20 years are missing.
Unfortunately, not many people care about newsgroups, so this probably doesn't make business sense.
things they should do and not do
o make damn sure that all their pages are valid HTML and make them small and LOAD FAST
o the mail and calendar services are better than google dont worry about this
o yahoo already have IM now they just need to offer VoIP gateways to countries (might be a problem but investigate)
o better I mean much BETTER shopping sites in terms of the service they offer to shopkeeper's to publish wares (dont brand them as much in terms of yahoo domain)
o look at offering flickr like service NOW ( build inside and look at buying at the same time whatever is faster )
o For Publishers better feedback serve 3 differant kinds of targeted ads
1/ html only (valid html no javascript)
2/ non animated pictures (only jpg png gif)
3/ animated flash or gif (kitchen sink)
o For Advertisers make it easy to log in and better stats
o remember for all pages even the tools make damn sure that all their pages are valid HTML and make them small and LOAD FAST remember 56k modem
regards
John Jones
For a start, focus on the user experience. A small but very significant example for me; google has its sponsored search results listed vertically on a semi-bar on the right out of the way of my eyes, whereas Yahoo has its sponsored search results right at the top and every time I do a search there's a mental effort, however brief, that requires me to check where the first unsponsored search result is in space on the page, and whether what my eyes landed on first is a sponsonred of unsponsored result. As such, Google is considerate and Yahoo is rudely intrusive to an extent that I loathe using it for simply this reason, no matter what else they do.
Other examples abound; when it comes to search, Google seems to focus on the users, Yahoo seems to keep on the overture approach of focusing more on those who pay it, the advertisers, and annoying the users.
Allow people to bid on ads based on the site's placement in the Yahoo directory.
Sometimes Adwords ads get thrown off by content on a particular page. I was running a personal blog running google ads as more of an experiment than anything (I got like 100 hits a week, nothing huge). Once I posted that I had purchased my first home, all of the Google ads turning into cheesy mortgage broker ads, even though none of the other stories had anything to do with mortgages.
Weighting website category classification & keywords would yield better results.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.03/yahoo.htm l?pg=2&topic=yahoo&topic_set=# Check the graphics with the article as they give the details on this.
I'm not surprised that techies would think Yahoo has to "compete" as they all love Google but it's akin to asking how Windows will be able to compete with Linux.
[insert sig file here]
Comment removed based on user account deletion
VOIP might be the keyword.
I know that Yahoo were the first to start VOIP in Japan and they have established market leadership dwarfing all other VOIP services there, it's called Yahoo BB Phone.
Depending on whom you believe it's got either over 1 million or over 3 million paying customers [recent articles returned by google bring up both these numbers, so I don't know which one is correct].
The way this works is you get a set top box from Yahoo which plugs into your DSL and your phone line. Your telephone also plugs in to the box.
Then if somebody calls you on your landline the call will go to your phone as usual. But if somebody who is also a Yahoo customer calls you using your existing phone number, then the call goes VOIP over Yahoo's network and it is free of charge.
If you call somebody who is not a Yahoo customer, you have the choice to use your landline or going through Yahoo's VOIP service at lower tariffs.
Very much like Vonage but it seems to be much better integrated with your existing landline and phone number.
Maybe Yahoo should consider a similar service in the US and other countries. Who knows, maybe they're already working on it.
the macintosh asterisk mailing list http://www.astm
There you go.
For one thing, they can get their own logo on Slashdot for stories about them instead of using Google's logo. Brand recognition, you know.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
Yahoo spent $339 on research vs. Google's $139 (where it all went is a mystery though)
Yahoo has 5,500 employees vs. Google's 1,907
Each user spent 4.8 hours on Yahoo per month vs. Google's 0.6
Yahoo gets 119 million unique visitors per month vs. Google's 72 million.
(Data represents four quarters ending Sept. 2004).
Although Yahoo may not be as geek friendly (and therefore Slashdot friendly I guess) as Google, it has a lot of customers and is the starting point for a large part of the web-surfing population.
To me, this seems like very good leverage to squeeze into Google's main revenue source, targeded ads.
Treo + Kaffi = Traffi
Does google have anything to compete against yahoo and its my.yahoo.com ?
It's nice.
Try browsing through the messages of any Yahoo! Group and you'll see exactly what the parent poster is talking about. Yahoo randomly interrupts your viewing of messages posted on their groups with massive animating, flash ads. It is quite hard to miss and is very annoying. You never see that with Google Groups and get much less intrusive ads.
What does Yahoo do to beat Google?
- Better Search Results
- Clean up your directory - If the content hasn't been updated in a year, removed it from the directory or moved it to an archived listing.
- Cleaner Interface - To much junk on the front page.
- Better-directed advertising
- Less intrusive advertising - I hate those pop-overs
- Make it easier to add your site to Yahoo - I can get spider by Google in a matter of days; it takes months to get considered by Yahoo.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Pay Firefox developers to make Yahoo the default search engine.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
They must become the anti-google and take on the motto of "Do No Good." Sure most of the people on Slashdot may prefer Good over Evil, but I think there is a large enough population to support a company that takes a firm stance against all that is good in the world.
I agree. That's what drove me away from Yahoo.
I used to use Yahoo all the time, but at some point they forgot that the reason everyone used them was the search directory. They started getting obstructive towards the people trying to get listed in the directory, and dmoz.org was launched as a result, pulling away a lot of users.
Then the default was changed for the Yahoo home page, so that when you entered a search term, instead of getting a nice useful list of annotated directory entries, you just got a typical search engine response--except not as good as Google's. Away went thousands more users. I gave up too, as it wasn't at all obvious to me how to find the directory that used to be there, but I could easily find dmoz.org.
Now it seems as if they've un-hidden the directory via "tabs" on the home page. Unfortunately, it's still crippled. You enter a term in directory search and it gives you a page of search results you didn't want, and at the top a couple of links saying there are "related" directory entries you might be interested in. Call me picky, but if I request to search X, the site shouldn't respond with Y and say "Oh, and by the way, you can also search X".
So you click the links to go through to the directory, at which point you discover that it's pretty puny compared to dmoz.org (compare and contrast searches for a random topic).
If you try to add a link, you discover why the Yahoo directory now sucks: they basically offer no ability to add links in a timely fashion unless you pay them money. In other words, they want to charge you money for the privilege of helping them improve their product and compete with Google and dmoz.
Google have never forgotten why people go to them. They're picky about what new features they add, and they keep the interface clean so that existing users don't suddenly find themselves lost. They're also careful not to remove functionality simply because it no longer fits the corporate strategy of the month.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Here is the link that google handed me:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
Perfectly correct.
Here is the link that yahoo handed me:
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=audacity/v=2/SID= w/l=WS1/R=1/SS=95832193/IPC=us/SHE=0/H=0/SIG=11kie a20m/EXP=1110912050/*-http%3A//audacity.sourceforg e.net/
If yahoo thinks Im going to click on that they can shove it. A$$holes.
that limits their ability to innovate, compete and add valuable services and features people could find worth buying (read currency).
Yahoo, Google, MSN, etc... mean different things to different people depending upon *how* they have chosen to use these free-portals of information/communication.
Yahoo should tightly couple their systems to users by leveraging differing user's contexts in client-side interfaces. My personal *entry* point into Yahoo is at mail.yahoo.com. Many enter at search.yahoo.com. By Maximizing the User experience Yahoo can trump the features war to develop its brand.
I like Google for its quick response and easy to use interface which rivals desktop applications for convenience. Google gets the value of the users experience. Google is earning my loyalty with its "no spam" mail portal and "simple" search portal.
I can see a point where Yahoo might lose its importance to users if the presence of competing products achieve like ubiquity