NeroLinux vs. K3b

An anonymous reader writes "Flexbeta.net compares NeroLinux to K3b under Fedora Core 3. The review notices how NeroLinux does nothing with the eye candy while K3b's GUI is no comparison to NeroLinux. The article also mentions how cumbersome it is to navigate through NeroLinux, also taking note of how long each application takes to accomplish burning tasks."

Comments

Re:NeroLinux ?

[Ender_Stonebender]

No, it isn't what you think. It's just a Linux version of the Nero software, made by the same people who made Nero for Windows. You probably missed it because there weren't very many dupes of it.

--Ender

Image writing

[LiquidCoooled]

The article says that:

NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

Isn't the NRG image format different to ISO, and therefore just renaming the created image just like renaming a jpeg image to GIF?
The burning software may assume the format from the data, but that sounds like bad practice, and definately not advisable.

So, my question, does NeroLinux create true ISO images?

Re:Image writing

[rebel]

.nrg files are .iso files with a 300kb header. I use the following simple script to convert:

#!/bin/bash
#
# Convert Nero .nrg format to .iso format.

error()
{
echo "${@}" >&2
exit 1
}

INPUT="${1}"; OUTPUT="${2}"
[ -z "${OUTPUT}" ] && OUTPUT="${INPUT%.*}.iso"

[ ${#} -ne 1 -a ${#} -ne 2 ] &&
error "Usage: $(basename ${0}) file.nrg [file.iso]"

[ ! -e "${INPUT}" ] && error "${INPUT}: file does not exist"
[ ! -s "${INPUT}" ] && error "${INPUT}: file is null"

TYPE=$(file -b "${INPUT}"); TYPE="${TYPE%% *}"

[ "${TYPE}" = "ISO" ] && error "${INPUT}: file is already in .iso format"
[ "${TYPE}" != "data" ] && error "${INPUT}: file is not in .nrg format"

dd if="${INPUT}" of="${OUTPUT}" bs=1024 skip=300

Re:Image writing

[Anonymous Coward]

.NRG files are NOT .iso files. There is a program, nrg2iso, that will strip the NRG header and leave you with a plain .iso, but only for some (data) .NRG image types.

If you create a multisession/CD-EXTRA style .NRG file, you cannot just rename it to .iso, and nrg2iso will NOT work.

Lastly, if it's an audio CD, calling the .NRG an .iso image is plain wrong! It's not ISO-9660 or anything else. It's CD-AUDIO. .Iso is for data CDs only, and even then it doesn't have all the info in it the cd writer actually needs. NRG has more info in it than just .iso. It needs to in order to support more image types than just data cds.

Disclaimer:

I write cd burning software professionally. I have the official phillips/sony cd specs right in front of me, and have used the NeroAPI, Primo HPCDE and Goldenhawk extensively. ;)

Re:Image writing

[arodland]

Almost true... a .nrg is either an ISO with a 300kB header, or it's some other stuff with a 300kB header, in which case you can't convert it to an ISO. If you understood the format of the header, you could convert most Nero images to bin/cue or cdrdao TOC format, but as far as I've seen, progress on figuring it out has been limited. On the other hand, your script is quite useful for when you have a Nero image and you know (or hope) that it contains a single Mode 1 Data track. I'd just recommend adding a little bit of extra detection logic so that it can bail informatively when the result isn't an ISO, instead of wasting the time and space to do a useless conversion :)

Long story short....

[carlmenezes]

NeroLinux - less options, poor GUI, faster sometimes.
K3B - more options, better GUI, either same speed or slower by a few secs.

Winner - K3B

Conclusion :
Author has no idea why Nero wants users to buy the Windows version so they can use NeroLinux - bad decision because K3B is much better and learning NeroLinux is not worth the time and the money.

Re:Long story short....

[LiquidCoooled]

Do not underestimate the power of Brand recognition.

People moving over from Windows will see the name and know what they are getting.
Lack of options is only a problem for those of us who bother with fussing around.

Most people want to simply create a cd.

Re:Long story short....

[mysticwhiskey]

I agree with your conclusion - K3B > NeroLinux. However, one wouldn't criticize their newly-born child for not being able to run like his years-older brother. See this for what is is - more Linux support from predominantly MS Windows-based vendors.

Re:Long story short....

[Apreche]

The reason they want users to buy windows version to use nerolinux is simple. They don't want to go through the effort of making a new scheme to prevent piracy. Instead of having separate buy linux version and buy windows version things with different keys and such. They will just sell keys. You can even think of it as you're not buying the windows version. You're buying a key from ahead that lets you use either version. Also, this way people who already have a windows key can get the linux version for free.

You crazy people think too much into this.

As for k3b and nero yeah, I can see the guys point. But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what. And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor. Also, for some things the linux software just doesn't do it. Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Re:Long story short....

[swillden]

But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what.

Is that a fact? Have any evidence? Because what you say makes no sense. Unless Nero bypasses the operating system somehow, it has to use the same Linux APIs that k3b et al have to use, and the problems people have with burners are related to the OS-level configuration -- device nodes, permissiones, etc. (well, I suppose some may have problems because they installed k3b but omitted cdrecord, but that's the distro's fault; decent distros do automatic dependency management).

And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor.

Like what? I may be out of touch here, but the last significant innovation I know of in burner APIs is Burnproof, and k3b etc. support that just fine.

Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

And with NeroLinux there is still no easy tool, because NeroLinux doesn't do DVD mastering. k3b burns DVDs just as well as NeroLinux does (k3b also doesn't do mastering).

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Well, if you RTFA, you'll see that the author had trouble getting Nero to work on his hardware, whereas k3b worked, period.

In summary: None of your arguments hold water. Got any others?

Before the site gets burned...too late

[Anonymous Coward]

NeroLinux vs K3b
Posted by Gsurface on 15 Mar 2005 - 18:53 Introduction

This week Ahead Nero introduced a Linux version of their popular CD burning application dubbed NeroLinux. NeroLinux promises to bring the great features found in the Windows version to the Linux domain. Though the Windows version of Nero is loved by many, how well does NeroLinux stack up against already existing CD Burning applications such as K3b? K3b's user interface is neat and full of eye candy, while Nero leans towards a more standard look; leaving aside looks for functionality. Though NeroLinux is "free" of cost, users still need to purchase version of Nero 6 for Windows to download NeroLinux. NeroLinux is provided as RPM or Debian package where as K3b is completely free and provides multiple Linux installation packages.

The test machine used for this review consists of the following:
Fedora Core 3
Abit Guru AV8 Chipset
AMD Athlon64 3500
1GB DDR 3200 RAM
Sony CD-RW Drive
Pioneer DVD-RW


Look and Feel

Look and Feel
No doubt about it, K3b offers a more pleasing look by using more eye candy than NeroLinux. Navigating into the preferences of each application, we can see how K3b's user interface is much cleaner and easier to navigate. The options in K3b are aligned as icons on the left hand side of the window, making each task recognizable. NeroLinux preferences window shows each section as tabs on the upper side. Though NeroLinux's GUI is simple, the preferences are still easy to navigate.

K3b Preferences and NeroLinux Preferences

K3b's main window presents the user with multiple CD burning scenarios to choose from including Audio CD Project, Data CD Project, DVD Data Project and CD Copying; getting straight to the point by presenting to the user its abilities. NeroLinux however, does not present the user with any type of wizard or options as far as what the user wishes to do. The user is simply presented with the main window to drag and drop files. The Windows version of Nero presents the user with a window of options as to what the user wishes to do: burn a data CD, music CD and so on. Why NeroLinux was not giving this same capability as the Windows version may have been because this is just the first release of NeroLinux. The fact that K3b presents the user with the options noted earlier makes it much easier to navigate than NeroLinux.

K3b Main Window, NeroLinux Main Window and Nero 6 Main Window


Features

Features
Both K3b and NeroLinux are able to handle both CD-R media and DVD media. K3b goes beyond your regular CD Burning suite by bundling a video encoding feature. K3b lets you rip a DVD movie and convert it into an AVI file for burning on regular CD-R media. NeroLinux does not include any type of video encoding feature. Under the burning properties section of K3b, the typical options are found such as the ability to simulate a recording session, write on the fly, create an image of the compilation only, and the ability to verify the written data; which most of the times is recommended. K3b also allows for multisessions, which means you can keep adding files to the same CD at a later time. NeroLinux's burning option also features the ability to simulate a recording session as well as verifying the written data on the disc. Other options such as creating a bootable disc and the option to finalize a disc are available on NeroLinux.

K3b and NeroLinux Burning Options

Both NeroLinux and K3b allow for burning an image of a CD, however, K3b's user interface is much neater and presents the user with more useful options than NeroLinux. K3b options allow for burning multiple copies of the image, setting the speed at which to burn the image and the ability to verify the written data. Though NeroLinux allows for these settings also, they are not presented to the user within the same window such as K3b.

Re:MirrorDot

[Anonymous Coward]

Try this one, the full article.. when it's available..
http://www.flexbeta.net.nyud.net:8090/main/printar ticle.php?id=86

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Jonny_eh]

I doubt the reason is because of CD burning in windows. K3b is merely a frontend for the command line tools cdrecord and cdrdao, and both have been ported to Windows.

It's probably not on windows for the same reason that hardly any other KDE/QT apps are on windows. And that reason escapes me, I always assumed it's was a Trolltech QT licensing issue (which shouldn't be a problem anymore). Why is it that Gaim is available in windows but K3b is not? Why is openoffice available, but not koffice? I think this hurts the KDE apps quite a bit. GTK is getting much more coverage in windows.

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?

[advocate_one]

Another submission with no information. Keep up the good work.

You must be new around here... if you don't know what K3b is then you can't be a true geek...

Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[episodic]

1st - this isn't about the article submitted to Slashdot. This is more a response to individual comments that I've seen posted here so far and across the internet: As I've used open source products, I keep seeing the same old arguments. One of those arguments is that we need commercial developers for Linux. Lo and behold when a commercial developer ante's up and makes product for Linux - they are beat up for their decision. Suddenly we hear about the commercial software: 1. That's fine but it isn't open sourced. 2. Bahhh we have an opensource equivalent already. 3. It doesn't work on my weird (read low marketshare) version of Linux. I'm sure there are other reasons, but it is early. Why can't we be positive? Why can't we embrace Ahead for their efforts and simply say - Good Job on your (read) 1st version? I'm sure if they didn't get bad press and beat up over their decision, there might be 'future' versions. Also, for all you 'we need to convert the windows world' - having NERO available is like a warm familiar blanket to many windows users. Don't worry ppl - other developers read slashdot - and they are probably thinking - why even bother to develop for the platform when they are likely to get negative press for their effort. Remember, it's not about comparison to existing free as beer linux apps - this is a commercial prodcut that will live or die on it's own merits.

NeroLINUX

[Silwenae]

I can't complain about NeroLINUX - it worked for me just fine. Because of my job, I have a couple copies of Nero for Windows, so it was easy for me to download the .deb and pop a key in.

I'm running Ubuntu - as a Gnome only user, I'd rather install Nero than K3B and not have to worry about all the KDE libraries, especially as they're unsupported in Ubuntu. Yes, I know running Ubuntu is my personal choice, as is running only Gnome.

But you know what? Nero worked, and it worked just fine. I'm either burning audio CDs or ISOs of linux distributions, and it does the job. Most Gnome CD burning apps are still in development (don't get me going on XCDRoast) and Coaster is still in active development. I may be lucky that I had a couple Nero keys laying around, but I'm not going to be disappointed by any commerical company releasing an application for linux if it helps linux as a whole - and I think Nero helps. Sure, it's GTK1 and it's kind of ugly (GTK 2 please!) and it's not HIG compliant, but it IS their first relase version for Linux, and they were kind enough to release RPMs AND debs - usually you only see RPMs from a commerical vendor it seems.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[ceeam]

I'll definately join. Were do I sine up?

If you find out let me know too. I would cosine. ;)

NeroLinux: PI/PO Reporting?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does NeroLinux support PI/PO error detection?

If so, this could be an advantage over K3B. There's no free software that detects PI/PO errors.

PI/PO refer to when erasure codes need to recover from scratches etc. and also when the erasure codes are not enough.

Simply reading/MD5ing a DVD is not enough. PI/PO readings will tell you how long you can expect that disk to last. Periodic checking of the disks will tell you when you should reburn/move to different media.

Not a very objective review?

[packman]

I read the article, and really got the impression that the author was a frequent K3B user, and didn't give Nero a chance. On windows, I always liked the Nero interface, simple, clean, not too much bullshit (or what the author calls "eyecandy"). It seems the linux version is more limited, but it's a good start, it supports things K3B (cdrecord etc) don't support, like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support, it should support USB writers without too much hassle (don't know what the status is on that-one with CDRecord etc). That has not been covered at all, and basicly the main bad thing about NeroLinux according to the author is that he likes the K3B interface more...

Also nero's licencing may be strange, but don't forget that a lot of CDwriters bundle Nero 6 with em. Most people using Nero in windows got it together with their writer. I myself have 3 or 4 official Nero cd's. It's nice that they also want to deliver a linux version in such scenario. Also another big point there is, you have to register, so they can very well track how many users are actually interested, it's their first time that they make a linux version, if they have enough interest, they probably will continue the development and start supporting it officially.

I do like K3B simply because it works, and the whole family can work with it, it's the perfect example for the dummy-user application in Linux, and it simply works, but I remember the times where I still prefered to use cdrecord on commanline than starting K3B, and it had to come a long way... Right now - K3B is high quality software, but there were times where the picture was different.

This is Ahead's first attempt to release linux software, and no instability was encountered. They should be encouraged, it took balls to do this - but reviews like this won't encourage or convince other software firms to write software for linux. Yes there is a lot of "free" software, but a lot of companies can't go without support or reliable and supported windows interoperability - preferably the same software running on Windows & Linux, so they don't have to train their personell to use new and different software.

Also a lot of software is almost not available for linux, like project management software, decent cross-platform agenda sharing. PLEASE don't mention Sunbird, it sucks - we tried it - and lost all agenda's doing so, suddenly all files on webdav were truncated to 0-byte size, after which sunbird freaked out and could not recover. Also it's way to complicated to setup, you need to do extensive configuration in apache, webdav and the client side (which is the worst thing). Sure - one day it will be better, but as long as you don't have these things, no company will completely switch over to linux. Yes there are other packages doing this kind of stuff in linux, but the support in windows is or unexisting or extremely limited. This is a giant step forward for Ahead, way to go I say!

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Ford Prefect]

If you find out let me know too. I would cosine. ;)

At which point, the discussion goes off on a tangent...

I'll stick with K3B

[ajs318]

NeroLinux is no good to me, I'm afraid. Not only is my new PC 64-bit, but I have made a conscious decision to run only OSI-certified software on it. Think of it as a kind of software analogue of vegetarianism, without the mortality-denial.

So I'm sticking with K3B. It's quite simply the most user-friendly piece of software ever written for any platform. If there's any guessing to be done, K3B does it rather than leaving you to do it. And at the end of the burn, it even shows you what commands you could have typed in an XTerm to accomplish the same effect {because of course that's what it's been doing anyway}. I think this is a great way to re-introduce the command line. GCombust, which I used to use on my old Mandrake 8.2 box, did pretty much the same thing, but used GTK1.2.

As for why there is no Win3B ..... that's anybody's guess. Though an ejectable LiveCD with Linux and K3B probably would suffice {if someone's got a DVD-writer, the chances are good that they will have enough RAM for this to work. Can Linux mount a Windows swap partition?} One day, I've promised myself, I'll get into making bootdisks ..... I've already done a Gentoo Stage One install, there's not much else that can be any harder! Maybe a K3B liveCD would be a good first project.

Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[FreeUser]

Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

And with NeroLinux there is still no easy tool, because NeroLinux doesn't do DVD mastering. k3b burns DVDs just as well as NeroLinux does (k3b also doesn't do mastering).

Excellent points, but I take issue with the statement "there is still no easy tool."

I use qdvdauthor, which is quite intuitive, for mastering video DVDs. I put together a DVD of my grandmother's memorial service for the family, complete with fancy menus and all the usual bells and whistles. It was quite easy, and k3b burned the resulting .iso painlessly.

Is it an all in one monolithic solution? Thankfully, no, and as far as I'm concerned, I hope people who do want to bring the windoze notion of one program doing a mediocre job at everything stay the hell away from *BSD and Linux. I like simple programs that do a focused task well. It means the programs are better, more reliable, and more easy for the developers to maintain, which means I get better software. For burning DVDs under Linux from your camcorder, for example, it's as easy as 1, 2, 3 ...

1) use kino to import video data from the camera into dv2 format

2) use qdvdauthor to master the dvd

3) use k3b to burn the DVD

each program does what it does very well, none are monolothic, and if something better comes along for any of the steps above I can substitute the new, better tool, without losing the features I'm used to or prefer in the other two steps.

Nero is dead. These people should have done a little market research before trying to sell a product that, when it matures, won't do any more than the libre software already available does just fine, k3b being just one example.

Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windows?

[intnsred]

Am I the only one that is not only not excited but is slightly repulsed by NeroLINUX?

I don't get it. Is the objective of GNU/Linux to simply invent another Windows? A platform where essential utilities (and IMHO, a CD/DVD burner program is essential) are commercial?

Looking at NeroLINUX, there are several points to ponder:

# NeroLINUX is not free as in "free beer". You have to have a registered version of Nero to use the program.
# NeroLINUX is not free as in "liberty". The software is closed source code and claims to use some sort of a "NeroAPI". (The term "proprietary APIs" simply should not be in a GNU/Linux user's vocabulary.)
# Nero notes on its web site, "Important note: Nero does not provide Technical Support for NeroLINUX."

Sorry, I don't see anything to get excited about. To me, it's just another half-step by a commercial company to brag "yeah, we run on Linux" while not really supporting the platform and another way for Nero to generate registrations from its Windows OEM versions.

Again, is the goal of Linux the porting of the same closed-source, marketing-driven, software gimmickry which is "business as usual" in the Windows world? Or is there another, higher goal which is aimed at providing both developers and end-users a different experience?

Unless we all want to be hostage to the same software gimmicks that permeate the Windows world, I'd strongly suggest joining the mailing lists of your favorite GNU/Linux-based burning program and participating in the community that is working to develop those programs.

Too late for Nero

[TheLastUser]

A lot of software vendors have missed the boat. If they had ported to Linux when there was no free substitute they might have prevented or slowed the development of the free substitute. Now they are competing against a product that is so mature that it is better than their software.

Worse yet, the Linux substirutes will eventually be ported to Windows and undercut their core business. All because they didn't want to "waste" money on a small segment of computer users, who, unfortunately for the propprietory software vendors, happen to be developers.

Painful business lesson. They don't seem to understand that its not about market share in the Linux segment its about market share, period.