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Microsoft Search Advertisers Get Personal
Alascom writes "According to this AP report, Microsoft is raising privacy concerns by allowing search advertisers to use personal information. Yusuf Mehdi, a corporate vice president with the MSN unit, said Microsoft has gathered this personal information by tracking users who have logged into its Hotmail e-mail program or other Microsoft Web sites in order to allow advertisers to target their ads to a specific audience."
Did you really expect anything less from Hotmail or Microsoft? I mean come on, this is a website that asks you (auto selected) if you want to subscribe to about 50+ different personalized newsletters when you sign up. I don't see how people can expect their privacy to be respected when the service is free.
I guess we should have read the license agreement....
The following statement is true
The preceding statement is false
Once people get a sniff that Microsoft is playing dirty in the search they have even less incentive to move from google.
I say bring it on.
And you don't think this happens anywhere else? Read the TOS of Google, Yahoo and many other websites you visit.
Hotmail are using personal data to target ads. Microsoft suck!
If only Google did this sort of thing with GMail. That'd be O.K, because they're Google. Google arn't evil, like those bastards at Microsoft.
I got some really scary ads that have been keeping me up at night! How do they know I HAVE A SMALL PENIS! OMG this is a travesty. I should have given them a fake zip code and should have lied about my penis size on the questionnaire.
The biggest problem with advertising reamins that products advertised are not interresting to me.
I have yet to find a advert for cheap merch pressing or jobs for young webdesigners. Instead i get bombarded with ads for crazy frog ringtones.
As long as they dont read my email line by line it's FINE with me
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
Targeted advertising? Wow, that Microsoft sure does always seem to innovate...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
I'm all for bashing MS, but if we call them on this let's not leave out our most sacred cow, Google.
I've witnessed a mass-exodus from Hotmail in the last few months. Complaints range from:
1. Being asked to type in a human-verifier code everytime you send an email
2. Server Busy errors for hours or even days
3. Account unavailable due to maintenance issues for hours or even days
4. Horrible interface
5. Spotty spam protection from everyone except the copious amount that Hotmail sends you
I have a Hotmail account that's about 7 years old that I still check from time to time, but I can't imagine using it on a day-to-day basis.
I'm a big tall mofo.
I live in Sweden, where this sort of thing is illegal unless you ask your customer for permission first.
Could this spell problems for Microsoft Sweden, or MS in any other (most likely european) country with the same laws?
Yes, MS has registered and is using hotmail.se.
From the article:
Microsoft's paid search platform will provide detailed -- but not personally identifiable -- information, such as gender, age and location, for many people who use its search engine, allowing advertisers to target their ads to a specific audience.
Notice they aren't releasing any information (like your name, etc.) that would explicitly identify the person to the advertisers.
I don't see a real problem with privacy here, it just looks like generalized demographic info that is useful to the advertisers.
Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
FTA: "Microsoft's paid search platform will provide detailed -- but not personally identifiable -- information, such as gender, age and location, for many people who use its search engine, allowing advertisers to target their ads to a specific audience."
Yeah, right. You target an ad to a person, they respond, and now you've got their age, location, etc. Once again the rights of the corporation outweight the rights of the individual.
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Yusuf Mehdi, a corporate vice president with the MSN unit, said Microsoft has gathered this personal information by tracking users who have logged into its Hotmail e-mail program or other Microsoft Web sites, and then matching the data they provided with publicly known demographics, such as average income for a particular ZIP code.
From Yusuf Mehdi bio:
In addition, Mehdi is also responsible for leading Microsoft's platform efforts for online advertising and digital marketing with responsibility for brand, direct marketing, pay for performance and business intelligence systems.
From the article:
Microsoft has made its name selling software, he (analyst David Garrity) said, and the new model of giving a product away and making money from advertising requires a steep learning curve.
and I love this name:
Chris Hoofnagle of the Electronic Privacy Information Center said Microsoft's efforts are part of an industrywide trend of using personal information to garner advertising dollars.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
MSN Hotmail
.NET Passport, which you will use for signing in to your Hotmail account. If you cancel this .NET Passport account, you will automatically cancel your Hotmail account. For more information about .NET Passport, visit http://www.passport.net and read the .NET Passport Privacy Statement.
E NT ARY
Hotmail collects information during the registration process, including first and last name, country, region or state, Zip or post code, time zone, gender, birth date and occupation. You may update your registration information at any time from within your Hotmail account by clicking the "Options" button on the navigation bar, and then clicking on the "Personal" icon.
When you create a Hotmail account, you will also simultaneously create a
Your registration information is used to operate the site, for demographic statistics, and to display appropriate individualized advertisements. New users will receive a Hotmail welcome letter explaining the features provided by the service. Hotmail may also send periodic member letters, from which you may not unsubscribe without closing your account, to announce important service changes, new features, technical issue updates and information about other products and services.
Hotmail is concerned about controlling unsolicited commercial e-mail, or "spam." Hotmail will not sell, lease or rent its member lists to any third parties. While Microsoft continues to actively review and implement new technology, such as expanded filtering features, there is no currently available technology that will totally prevent the sending and receiving of unsolicited e-mail. Using tools such as the Inbox Protector and being cautious about the sharing of your e-mail address while online will help reduce the amount of unsolicited e-mail you receive. For more information on how to best use Hotmail's tools, please contact abuse@hotmail.com.
http://privacy1.msn.com/fullnotice.armx#SUPPLEM
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OK, you signed up to use "free" e-mail from the largest corporate player known for it's less-than-ethical tactics and you expected to get something for nothing from Microsoft? Yikes, people. I refused from the get go. My gut said it was a gimmick.
.EDU. [That and I'm a bit of a masochist].
Nothing is ever free from a corporation--they've got people studying consumers to find out how to make a buck off of them. That's no conspiracy theory--it's just corporate life. That's why I work at an
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
From the article: "That's probably the thing I feel worst about over the last few years -- not making our own R&D investment," Ballmer said. Umh, wasn't there a certain monkey dance that is regretted more?
1) Collect personal information for years with privacy notice consisting of twenty pages of legal language displayed in a 4"x1" scroll box. First line reads "Your privacy is our foremost concern." Last line reads "Terms may be changed at any time without notice."
2) Don't do anything until you've got enough information to be valuable.
3) Change terms without notice.
4) Sell personal information and PROFIT!
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Followed up with exactly the same thing that Google, Yahoo!, and many other companies do:
"For example, a car company could choose to have Microsoft display its sports car link when a man types in certain keywords, and a link to an SUV model when a woman uses the search criteria."
Not a privacy concern. It's using the Internet's advantages to the benefit of 1) the advertiser and 2) the consumer (potentially).
If I'm surfing for "SUV" then maybe I would rather see sponsored links for SUV companies rather than random, unrelated ads for shower gel. As an advertiser, I know that I can buy a billboard for n dollars and have no idea how many people drove by the billboard, made inquiries into my company as a result of the billboard, or became customers are a result of the billboard. With the Internet, I can do all of that - it lets me be a more informed advertiser, use my money more appropriately, and improve general service for customers.
OK: that won't fix all tracking (including this M$ one) but it helps.
It could get scarier!
I went into a discussion on Binary Revolution Radio (http://www.binrev.com/radio/) episode #80 about the possibility (or rather INEVITABILITY) of Microsoft combining all of its databases from all of its individual services (hotmail, MSDN, spaces, search, etc...) and data mining them for common data. Each individual privacy policy becomes meaningless. They may not sell your data, but they can combine it and put together a pretty powerful profile about you.
The key, and the reason that I pointed it out on this episode, is the new Microsoft genuine program. All of the other databases could have been joined on names, phone numbers, and other PII (Personally Identifiable Information) which is not always reliable. With the new "genuine program" they get a hash of your system as part of the process that uniquely ties you to that computer.
With one anchor like that that *is* reliable (most of the time) they now have a way to tie your visits to your accounts from that PC to all of your other MS service accounts. For example, logging into hotmail from that "marked" PC.
It is not rock solid and may not be completely provable (people do use other peoples computers) but it will work most of the time. That is a very scary data warehouse that could provide extremely targeted advertising which would fetch top dollar from advertisers.
--- The revolution will be digitized! - http://www.binrev.com/ ---
Being a convicted monopoly doesn't make everything they do illegal.
How is this any different than Google trolling through your email? Oh, it's not quite as bad, but since it's Microsoft, it's Pure Evil? And of course since Google is our Love Child, it's OK for them to do something that in reality is twice as offensive? Ah Slashdot....
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Who cares? Who actually uses MS "SEARCH" anyway? It sucks, and if they want it to suck even more, they'll incorporate 'targeted ads'. If they want to follow in the footsteps of AOL thats fine by me. They're going to be fighting AOL for a segment of "very large but mentally insignificant" web-users.
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
From their terms of service and privacy info.
http://privacy1.msn.com/
These are just random bits I collected that related to advertisers and personal information.
Also you may want to read the pasport privacy link, as this is how msn connects all their sites.
http://www.passport.net/Consumer/Privacy Policy.asp?PPlcid=2057
At some sites, MSN collects personal information, such as your e-mail address, name, home or work address or telephone number. MSN may also collect demographic information, such as your post code, age, gender, preferences, interests and favorites. Information collected by MSN may be combined with information obtained from other Microsoft services and other companies
The information we collect may be combined with information obtained from other Microsoft services and other companies.
MSN may also place Web beacons from third parties on our site in order to compile aggregated statistics and to help determine the effectiveness of our joint promotional or advertising campaigns. MSN prohibits Web beacons on our site from being used by third parties to access your personal information.
Use of Third Party Ad Networks
The majority of the online banner advertisements you see on MSN Web pages are displayed by MSN.
Your registration information is used to operate the site, for demographic statistics, and to display appropriate individualized advertisements.
In addition, MSN allows other companies, called third-party ad servers or ad networks, to display advertisements on MSN Web pages. Some of these ad networks may place a persistent cookie on your computer. Doing this allows the ad network to recognize your computer each time they send you an online advertisement. In this way, ad networks may compile information about where you, or others who are using your computer, saw their advertisements and determine which ads are clicked on. This information allows an ad network to deliver targeted advertisements that they believe will be of most interest to you.
TruePunk | Games
How can you expect privacy when you're giving your info to another person?
Microsoft didn't force you to login to hotmail. And the fact that you happen to have private information there is your own damn fault.
It would be different if your ISP was giving out your emails or other details since you pay them for the service...
And you really don't think Google isn't laughing at the stock of "private" information stored in their gmail archives?
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
If you do and you don't want to feel free to use my "real information":
Bob Smith 1313 Mockingbirdlane Beverly Hills Califonia 90210 555-555-5555 (h) 555-555-5555 (c) alternate email ifjeufeiehhc@yahoo.com
The real question is do they feel guilty charging for junk data?
GMail placed context sensitive ads based on people's private emails. In competition (maybe not in direct competition, but still in competition) MSN is going a step further and doing this. In competition Google or someone else might go a step even further and do something even worse. That's why even a small case of invasion of privacy is bad -- it leads to competition in unhealthy areas and it gives more justification for bigger transgressions -- and that's why some of the hue and cry raised over gmail was justified. (And of course, there is also the justifiable argument that even a small case of invasion of privacy is not acceptable)
I'm sorry, I know this is going to really piss some people off here at slashdot, but I actually LIKE those little ads on the sidebar that are specified to what I'm searching for. Especially when I'm attempting to find something I want to buy. There has been many a time when I'm trying to find something via Google, or I get an email special in my Gmail account, that the links on the side take me to something even better. Not all ads are neccessarily scams. I mean, its not like they're installing software on my computer, so I just really don't see the point in arguing over this. To me, it really ENHANCES my search for products more than it hinders.
If Microsoft sees this, and they see that it'll bring in some more revenue, why SHOULDN'T they try something like this?
"No one is more miserable than the person who wills everything and can do nothing." -Emperor Claudius 10 BC - AD 54
When a tv can report back to its master what channel I'm watching, when and for how long, my sole remaining tv will have a new home on the curbside.
What Microsoft is doing is what AOL has done for years -- providing data on the actual person such as age, gender, and location. AOL users have an object called the "q_context" that follows them around (like a cookie) that contains basic demographic info about you, and display objects can use info in the q_context to do things like pop up your local weather in a field, or (presumably) an ad targeted at your age and gender as well as your location.
This is nothing new, and it's really nothing all that bad, but it's still a lot more than Google does.
-- Old Man Kensey
They can look thru my hotmail account all they like. It only ever gets used when I need to provide a valid email address to a website I'm visiting. This way, my home email doesn't get flooded with the porn ads/medications ads that seem to find their way to me after a visit amazon, hahaha.
For example, the system could force users to enter: Date of birth, ethnic affiliation, gender, sexual preference, social security number, driver license number, tax documents filed in the last 15 years, criminal records, photocopies of birth certificates, a list of current and past employers, amount of pay over a 10 year period, number of spouse and children, names, genders, social security numbers, and birth certificates of all family members, and the list goes on and on. It would take the average person a week to collect all of the information and to prepare all the documents for submission to Microsoft to activate a piece of software.
This would be good for the economy because companies will pop up everywhere that will file for you, similarly to the way that tax preparation companies exist all over the place.
But here's the best part: When the software is activated, Microsoft's systems would automatically verify all of the information with state and federal computer systems. Any incorrect information would be grounds for lawsuit and police action for fraud.
Assuming you're not busted for fraud, Microsoft would then sell complete identifying information to advertisers and businesses of all kinds, especially businesses that nobody's ever heard of, which are not reputable, or businesses which are specifically shady and/or illegal. These businesses could then use the information to specifically target advertisements for individual potential customers. They could also enhance their revenue by stealing the identity of those who do not purchase their products, thereby taking advantage of their government-granted right to guaranteed profits from business activities. Microsoft would collect a 99% tax on these profits, to recompense it for building such a vast and complex system.
Microsoft. Where do you want to go today?
How else would they know to show me ads for Linux servers?
I feel a personal responsibility to put down as much erroneous and conflicting information as possible when filling out web forms. I'm pretty sure hotmail beleives that I am an 18 year old female virgin with an annual income of $0 whose name is Bill Gates and whose address is 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA... yeah, that info should be really useful to potential advertisers!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.