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Internet Phones & Identity Theft
flaws writes "A CNN story details how phishers are using Internet Phones to expand their identity theft endeavors. The article demonstrates the use of caller-id spoofing to companies such as Western Union to thwart their verification system and successfully launder money. Western Union commented on the situation, stating at this time it's the only way they know how to authenticate the call. The anti-phishing working group states that telecommunications abuse is being used to fool home users into revealing their bank information over the phone."
Just another example of the thieves being ahead of the companies. Regardless of what form of verification a company comes up with, it's going to be broken or cracked by a criminal. As long as it relies on any human input, this will continue.
My sig of choice is Marlboro
You can spoof caller ID, but can you spoof ANI? Maybe Weastern Union needs to get an 800 number or something.
"Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
I have a block for caller ID on my home phone. I know that when I call a 1-800 number though, they still are easily able to discern what my true phone number is. My understanding is that this is by using Automatic Number Identification - ANI. Does Western Union not use this or do VoIP phones allow you to fake this as well as standard caller ID? If the latter, then I think we have bigger problems than Western Union. Most 911 systems use ANI also. Imagine if knuckleheads could make anonymous calls to 911.
I'm a big tall mofo.
The anti-phishing working group states that telecommunications abuse is being used to fool home users into revealing their bank information over the phone.
.. are soon parted.
Internet Speed test
Or a faxed signature, either one will do. If it works for pizza delivery it should work for money transfers.
Oh, and you could also block VOIP services from western union and what not until they will vouch for the identity of their users.
Anonimity on the 'real' phone network is much easier to get than on a VOIP phone, the 'IP' bit will take care of that quite nicely, as long as you can map back between a phone number at any given moment and an IP number.
It's a bit like a DHCP lease by a provider or a WIFI access point, if you know the timestamp and the ID used you should be able to work backwards to get more info out of the system.
MP3 Search Engine
No one is who he tells you to be.
Modern forms of communications allow higher levels of anonimity. It should not be this way, but sometimes people have to learn from their mistakes the hard way.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
Has Western Union never heard of calling the number back?
Get a goddamned 800 number, and use less-spoofable ANI identification? I mean, really.
I got a call supposedly from a Timothy at Slashdot. The caller indicated they needed my help in verifying some spelling and asked if I recalled seeing a proposed story before. They indicated they needed my social security and mother's maiden name so they could verify my karma level. Needless to say the ThinkGeek coffee mug did not make up for the fact my savings account was drained.
If western union is using caller ID to authenticate financial matters, western union is being stupid. IT's always been possible to fake caller ID.
Let's not blame voip.
I think it's worth pointing out that the *real* problem (as usual) is not just technical issues, but also the end users. As long as people are naive enough to let themselves get talked into revealing personal details, passwords, credit card numbers, PINs (or whatever) over *any* medium (no matter whether it's email, over the phone, in person or anything else), phishing (and, more generally, fraud) *will* continue to be a problem.
Technical measures may seem like they're helping on a short-term scale, but ultimately, they're just masking the real problem, which can only be solved by educating people and making it clear to them that security is something that does affect them directly.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
""A CNN story details how phishers are using Internet Phones to expand their identity theft endeavors. "
It's not the tool, but the user.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
There's a historic precedent for this.
It's called "The Cold War".
Except there's no "Soviet Union" to fall in this scenario.
If your bank, investment firm, or other institution calls you on the phone to ask you for any information, all you have to do is ask for a number where you may call them back. Sure, it is possible to hack into a trunk and redirect calls, but that takes a huge amount of effort relative to just phishing. It shouldn't be too hard to verify that number x belongs to institution Y. With a callback number, even if you get scammed, it gives the police something to go on.
Internet worms that snarl online networks can render VOIP lines unusable, and experts at AT&T (Research) say VOIP conversations can be monitored or altered by outsiders.
They sure went to a reliable source. VOIP can be tapped? Interrupted?? Why, it's impossible to do that with conventional phone lines!!
aoeu
Some of us don't have jobs, you insensitive clod!
Anybody with access to a phone switch can easily spoof Caller ID. It should NOT be used by companies as a form of verification, since it is so easy to spoof. Companies should utilize internal IDs or passwords for sensitive information. It's just plain stupid to depend on Caller ID as a form of verification.
I remember when the BBS's used to call you back on the number you provided to verify you were giving them the correct number. Maybe a feature like this would help cut down on these issues.
This is really a matter for public education rather than the heavy hand of the law to solve.
I'd like to start a consumer movement where each consumer can generate a set of private and public encryption keys. The consumer can publish the public key and it will be used by credit card issuers to issue new credit card numbers to the consumer. Then, only the consumer can decrypt and use those numbers. If consumers use this as the only means of transferring critical personal information then the phishers will be defeated.
I noticed that when setting up a Cisco Call Manager with a PRI, that I could signal out on the SS7 D-channel pretty much any CLID information I wanted. And the phone switch would accept it.
Phone switch software has to trust certain types of trunk lines. This type of scam was available to PBXs, but the phone companies could trace it to the circuit that introduced the spoof, because they had records of the actual dialed number.
Same thing needs to happen with Vonage and others. They need to install a digital certificate on the box they send you and the call setup needs to have something like a X.509 signature. The soft switch run by the Vonage like company maps where the real box came from, doesn't accept any signatures it doesn't know, and records the originating src-ip address. Sudden and often changes in src-ip address means the customer gets a service message in their account asking them to verify. Just like credit card fraud protection.
And most importantly, the Vonages of the world are held responsible legally for it through legislation.
Let's all give a big yeay!, to P2P then.
After all the problems with spoofed emails, you would think that the people that create VOIP standards would specify something more secure. Doesn't anybody learn any lessons?
Perhaps all standards-setting bodies need a "Red Team" group of people that try to find the holes before the standard is set.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
I work for an an e-commerce software company that processes several million dollars in sales a month.
/ authkey.php
In the past few weeks we've had scam artists targeting our customers offering to do free SEO analysis only to get in and download their customer base.
They claim to be partners of ours, and they tell the business they need admin access to do the study and they'll give them a free report.
Of course they get in, as admin, then they download the order history and customer list and start calling the customers saying "we had a problem with your order can you please verify your credit card number ending in [last 4 digits]" and most honest people happily oblige by repeating the valid credit card number over the phone. Then they ask for the CVV/CID # Yeoch!
Fortunately a lot of our sales go through Paypal which isn't subject to that sort of phraud.
I figure a single break in could easily net them 50,000 valid credit cards. Very scary.
I suspect the calls originate from hacked out IP Phones.
Here's how we fixed the problem so that our customers they could verify the identity of our staff and our legitimate partners:
http://webdoc.zoovy.com/info/index.php?GOTO=guide
Contact lists should include passwords. Smartphones are very well positioned to close all these authentication holes - they can have a single authentication, either password, thumbscan, or other, protecting the whole keyring. If the caller has a smartphone, their phone should get a password - or more likely, a certificate - when they first call. Anyone calling without a certificate, like from a borrowed phone, should get a challenge to enter a password, or leave a voicemail. When any call is made to a person without a certificate, the phone should offer (with a simple "OK"/"Cancel" dialog) the caller to give the recipient a new certificate/password. Make the phones do all the work, with just a simple dialog to OK the issuance of credentials. Let the phones backup to PCs with a single button-push - over the 3G or local - sending only encrypted data to storage.
If every smartphone did this, we'd expand the P2P web of trust exponentially. ID theft would drop, phone spam would plummet, and more people would buy smartphones. The key is making it extremely easy. And considering the hairy ID system we now wrestle with, there's room in this one for just a little UI and transaction structure to actually make it simpler.
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make install -not war
There are services offering this already online for a monthly fee, some people see them as fun to manipulate caller ID's and prank friends, but because of the anonymity of the service they are already being abused
Business Voyeur
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have been using Gnupg for how many years now? I can not even remember. And some corporations still have the nerve to claim it is not possible to securely identify yourself. In Norway, a insecure and closed system called BankID is currently being forced upon bank customers. This is a system where those who make it know it is insecure to the extent they dare not give anyone the source code or show the inner workings. GNUPG is secure, open and can be tested. It beats me why any bank would use something as stupid as phone authorization, or closed things like BankID, when the obvious choice for any security device today is GnuPG..
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
"Simply ask the person on the other end of the line for their "vendor authorization code" or "security code" (emails will always contain a security code)"
So you send your vendor passwords through the email. If your attackers can crack your customer DB, what's to stop them sniffing your emails and getting the passwords? The insecure system will lead many more customers to trust it.
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make install -not war
The phone system trusts the sender to send accurate caller-id. Anybody with a good digital connection to a phone company can spoof caller-id to their heart's content.
Verifying the VoIP user only works if it becomes mandatory to accurately certify the identity of the caller across the telephone network. Since the phone companies don't do this with each other today, they should start by getting their own house in order first.
I get so many auto-dialers and "bank services" calls I don't even answer the phone unless it's one of the few people I want to talk to. On the occasion that I pick up and get caught by some phone salesman, I politely say, "Can you hold on a minute...", then I put the phone down for an hour or so and hopefully they go out of business because of the long distance fees from India.
And what a coincidence that we are having a rash of articles trying to demonize and FUDize VOIP and WiFi. Just in time for all this legislation that the telcos and cable companies are trying to push through in many states, legislation that would outlaw municipal wifi, for example.
What a coincidence...
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Western Union commented on the situation, stating at this time it's the only way they know how to authenticate the call.
Well there your problem, there is no point in authtenticating a "call", one should try to authenticate a *caller*. Whats next, calling shoesole patterns "walker id"`s and using them to find out if someone really is the authorized person to order a nuclear strike?
What did they use a a telephone number reference, please tell me its not the yellow pages.... If something isn`t advertised as an authentication technology, them maybe, just maybe it really isn`t.
From: http://www.camophone.com/faq.php
Q. Why do you guys keep getting owned by Defonic?
A. Our security is horrible, our staff sucks, we're very lazy lazy people and we offer horrible service that should be free. so i dont really doubt the fact that we constantly get owned.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Anyone that is stupid enough to give anone any details about themselves when they are called almost deserve to have their identity or information stolen and used against them. I remember when I got an account with my bank that had a pin number on my card when I was about 12 (15years ago).. back then the bank said they would NEVER call me to ask for my details. So what is new?... or is it that people dont listen to the paper/information sheets that are given to you with your account?...
If anyone ever rings me and asks for any personal details I just tell them to get stuffed.. Or if it sounds legit ill request to ring them back on a number that I have for them. Its not that hard to stay safe from bank fraud.
I've got a landline that's set to ring all my phone#s simultaneously, including my mobile phone. I want to call someone from my mobile, but I want them to get my landline#, so they can call me back at whichever phone I've got. I want to "spoof" my own landline#, as a callerID "Reply-To". It's a big mistake to use only one number for replies and authentication.
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make install -not war
This is what gets me about the entire telemarketing industry -
If you get a phone call and someone tries to sell you something, you have absolutely no idea who they really are, what company they really represent and even if they are in the same country as you, why on earth would anyone give them credit card details to make a purchase?!?
Im surprised this hasn't been going on for decades:
1) Call random people
2) Offer them an amazing deal
3) Take credit card and address details
4) Fucking profit big-time
Add to that, find a country that has no extradition treaties with yours and only call people in that country, the long-distance charge will be worth it from all the money you rake in from total fucking idiots who are prepared to give you their credit card without any credentials.
The fact that there actually is a telemarketing industry proves that some people must be stupid enough. From now on I propose a special 'code word' which will be known among telemarketers and non-stupid people the conversation will go something like this:
A: Good morning sir, Im wondering if you would be interested in this special offer we..
B: Banana!
A: Oh terribly sorry to bother you sir, ill take you off all telemarketing lists immediately, thank you.
This code word has basically told the marketer that you are not a total retard and are not worth calling in the future so that they may remove you from their list and actually save themselves time and money! All the actuall idiots who would fall for this crap can then have more telemarketers calling them and everyone is happy.
This is what gets me about the entire telemarketing industry -
If you get a phone call and someone tries to sell you something, you have absolutely no idea who they really are, what company they really represent and even if they are in the same country as you, why on earth would anyone give them credit card details to make a purchase?!?
Im surprised this hasn't been going on for decades:
1) Call random people
2) Offer them an amazing deal
3) Take credit card and address details
4) Fucking profit big-time
Add to that, find a country that has no extradition treaties with yours and only call people in that country, the long-distance charge will be worth it from all the money you rake in from total fucking idiots who are prepared to give you their credit card without any credentials.
The fact that there actually is a telemarketing industry proves that some people must be stupid enough. From now on I propose a special 'code word' which will be known among telemarketers and non-stupid people the conversation will go something like this:
A: Good morning sir, Im wondering if you would be interested in this special offer we..
B: Banana!
A: Oh terribly sorry to bother you sir, ill take you off all telemarketing lists immediately, thank you.
This code word has basically told the marketer that you are not a total retard and are not worth calling in the future so that they may remove you from their list and actually save themselves time and money! All the actuall idiots who would fall for this crap can then have more telemarketers calling them and everyone is happy..
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Hi, I'm an stranger but I can give you a job, all you have to do is send me your entire life story, where you've worked, where you went to school, you age etc...
It won't be long before people start using job advertisements for identity theft, it's just so easy, from the average CV you'd get enough information to pass most security checks, and it only takes a birth certificate to get you mothers maiden name.
The best thing is that the UK government want you to provide even more information to prove you can work, corner shops and take aways will be copying your passport details as soon as you take the job.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Western Union can be verified via faked phone called, a COB (thats a change of billing), or via chat with a WU rep in some cases.
What ever happened to good old fashioned ANI? You can't spoof that.
Caller-ID is a hack, plain and simple. There are two phone numbers that really matter - the one reported as Caller-ID data and the billing telephone number.
For most consumers - the BTN and the Caller-ID number are the same. It only becomes a problem for business but even they can set both ANI delivery and CLID delivery to be the same for all their outbound trunks but few businesses have people in their I.T. and telecom units that would know how to bully providers into setting things up correctly.
The technology exists to prevent spoofing on IP calls, it is called SSL. Issue certificates with phone numbers instead of web addresses; Verisign could issue CA Certs for the phone companies and the phone companies could issue for phone numbers.
Got a call from the bank? Is the call signed?
Of course, this would require a user-interface change. We would need some sort of display that shows, not just caller id, but credentials as well...
I'm dreaming huh? Like the U.S. gov is ever going to allow encrypted telephone calls to go mainstream....
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
No, for our staff our we have an SSL site to generate the keys.
The keys are only good for a few days, the partners (and there are only a handful of them) have a separate login to our extranet that allows them to generate keys based on their company.
The keys are only good for a few days (currently 7) AND they identify the company they came from to customer when they authenticate the key.
I know in Australia it least it's illegal to lie about the source of a call (phone number at least). Sure, it's hard to prevent but it keeps carriers on their toes and they put blocks in place.
Getting a free access trunk is possible but not for a normal business.
like the customer service verify the customer by asking address phone number....why dont the customer verify the customer service by establishing a secret code for his account. The customer service guy should provide this secret code b4 he establishing the verification of customer
Why not verify the customer service guy, like the way they verify customers. I mean when u open a account you establish a secret word. The customer verifies the CS by this word. Then the verification of the customer.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
That's effectively what is it.
:-)
It's just a different word for each account/vendor. And the word expires. And we can tell who's looking up the word. And customers can't remember the word -- so this way they can just look it up.
I present on Identity Theft all over the Western United States, came across this forum, and thought I would throw in my two cents.
In response to someone's post, job ads are already being used for Identity Theft. Monster.com ranks it among their biggest problems- fake companies posing as real companies.
Someone on this forum stated that you would have to be dumb to lose your information. I beg to differ.
No matter how good you are, no matter how vigilant, no matter how much you shred, or don't mail from your box, or hide in your home, there is no 100% effective defense against Identity Theft.
Here's why. Let's say you want to get health insurance, or auto insurance, or finance a car, etc. etc. etc. Let's say for purposes of this example that you are trying to get health insurance through your company. A relatively simple process, right? Fill out the form, wait to get the insurance cards.
Now, the insurance agent takes the form and submits it for group health. It is submitted to three different companies for underwriting. So now, the insurance agent and the insurance company has the information on you, the three companies supplying the insurance have the information on you, AND all of the employees at all four points have access to the information. Think about how many employees that might be.
That information is then passed on to a data warehouse like ChoicePoint, and anyone who has access to ChoicePoint now has access to that information. Who has access to ChoicePoint? I think with the recent news articles, the more appropriate question is, who doesn't have access to ChoicePoint?
The information is also submitted to your MIB (Medical Information bureau) file. Anyone who has access to the MIB files, now has access to all of that information. Who has access to the Medical Information Bureau records? Anyone at any hospital around the United States who has even a small amount of clearance.
According to John Gardner, co author or Chicken Soup for the Entrepreneurial Soul, "This makes the Identity Theft Shield, along with a Pre-Paid Legal Membership, an absolute must for anyone that's breathing."
If you want to learn what Mr. Gardner is talking about, visit www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/jkraft.
If not, and you want to continue thinking that shredding your information is going to protect you, good luck. Jonathan (877) 825-7119
I think you could leave your brain at the end users. Yes you are!
The people that are crazy enough to let themselves get talked into revealing personal details, passwords, credit card numbers, pins (or whatever) over *any* medium (no matter whether it's email, over the phone, in person or anything else), phishing (and, more generally, fraud) *will* continue to be a problem.