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Students Do Better Without Computers
Gogogoch writes "The Telegraph
is reporting a large study that shows that the less students use computers
at school and at home, the better they do in international tests of literacy
and math. The more access they had to computers at home, the lower they scored
in tests, partly because they diverted attention from homework. Students tended
to do worse in schools generously equipped with computers, apparently because
computerised instruction replaced more effective forms of teaching. " Worth noting that it took almost 20 years for PCs in the corporate environment to actually have a positive impact on productivity; might the same be true in education?
This is clearly a hormonal thing, and it's like making a case against human evolution. The computers are here and they aren't going anywhere. Learn how to use them to improve your test scores or find better porn - the choice is yours. I don't think you can make a case against students learning to use computers now, as opposed to waiting until they are over 40 and trying to find the Any Key.
Corporations still have a hell of a time keeping employees off of Solitaire and Minesweeper. I think this is not a computer problem, but a "bored at work" problem. I can remember my teachers in high school - most of them were the most boring people you would care to meet. A select few would enlighten and invoke interesting discussion and methods to achieve success on the course.
So this clearly is not a computer problem, but a teacher problem. Adding a distractive device that lets you leave a boring class is only a small price to pay to prevent the stagnation of our children's collective intellects.
Let's put more money into better programs and methods for teaching, and wash out the teachers who aren't interesting. Maybe add some profit incentives for teachers?
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Which 20 years are Hemos referring to? It was my understanding that all recent "productivity" gains are from laying off large numbers of people and telling the survivors to "kick it up a notch or get the f out"...
[o]_O
Kids that use calculators most of the time are less likely to be able to do simple mathematics in their heads, or even with pen and paper. Kids that use spelling checkers to verify their work are less likely to know themselves how words should properly be spelt simply because they don't learn from their mistakes.
How the hell is any of this news to anyone?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
are the problem. most of the time the kids know more about the computer than the teachers do. and the teachers don't have any idea how to use the computer to teach. perhaps now that so many programmers are out of work some of them will end up teaching and will make some decent educational software. (not holding my breath)
Often computers are just thrown into a classroom expected to do miracles on their own....
Add to that teachers that know less about them than the students and you get a nice mess....
Computers can do wonderfull things but you have to use them right, they should only be used to add something usefull like better representations.
They should be used to teach things USING computers not just to teach 'computer'.
Jeroen
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God forbid kids without computers might actually pick up a book and read it for fun.
We've got a generation of adults who, once they're out of school, have lost the ability to read anything longer than a magazine article. It's not ADD - it's simple laziness on everyone's part.
But that's okay, ply them with Ritalin while continuing to fight the "war on drugs". So what's next in our irresponsible, don't accept blame society - people suing computer/os suppliers because their computer made them "stupid"?
Clifford Stoll's 2000 book High Tech Heretic made a similar claim about the dangers of computers in basic education.
./ under his own name and aliases.)
(Stoll posts in
Computers are a tool. Too many educators have and continue to view the computer as some sort of magic bullet. Some educators seem to think if they just get a bunch of computers the kids will learn better. I imagine this conception is because kids like using computers, but this doesn't necessarily mean they're paying any more attention to absorbing information from it than they were from the teacher. There are also lots of studies where computers have been shown to increase test scores. For example, at an elementary school where I worked, we employed a reading program that used computerized testing. Reading ability and comprehension improved markedly. Computers can making teaching more effective, but they can't make it just happen, that's what teachers are for.
then Here are a bunch of other things that have been tied to lower test scores
If anything, its a problem with education not competiting enough with other distractions.
Having been to a highschool that just got "computers in the classroom" kick while I was there, I've seen what it did to the teaching style.
The whole thing quickly turned into a babysitting device. "Do the math exercises the computer tells you to do while I grade your homework. When you're done, just sit quietly and keep yourself amused." Needless to say the plan lasted about a year before remarkably level-headed people sorted things out and things went back to normal (more-or-less).
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
I have several close family members who teach in middle and elementary school, and they've been saying this for years. Their main complaint about computers in the classroom is that educational software seems far more concerned with making learning fun than with making effective use of a student's limited time in the classroom. Of course, computer learning programs are great for the lazy teachers - they can just dump their students in from of the computers and enjoy their coffee while the students "learn".
Didn't read the article, did you. Their report also noted that being able to use a computer at work - one of the justifications for devoting so much teaching time to ICT (information and communications technology) - had no greater impact on employability or wage levels than being able to use a telephone or a pencil. So no, your post has been proven wrong. But thanks for playing.
It's that infernal rock and roll music that's ruining our childern
...computers don't belong everywhere.
Education is one of the places where computers don't really belong. A computer cannot answer questions, tell memorable stories that make information stick in your head, or deal with the oddball questions that only a living flesh-and-blood teacher can field.
Also, computers - by taking the drudgery out of your homework - leave you with less of an education. An example is Calculus. I learned calc with a pencil and a piece of paper. I had a simple calculator of the $5 kind. As a result, I have a better idea of what is going on than if I just simply plugged stuff into Student Maple. To put it another way, when I see an integral, I know about Riemann and know what I'm looking at.
Bottom line - there is no shortcut to learning. If you take one, you're not learning.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
This is just like most bills that get passed to "protect our children", when its not the children that needed protecting or changes in their lives, its the PARENTS.
To say that student is better off having NO computer is not only wrong, but incredibly stupid. Without good computer skills, college and real life is going to be an incredible struggle.
No, the problem isn't the computer, its the parents who don't control the situation and their environment. Granted, if a student with a computer has broadband with not restrictions, and addictive games like WoW, then yes, its going to be very detrimental to their education, but is it the computer's fault? No. Parents need to educate themselves and know/understand how to limit computer usage.
Its sad, but most children/teenagers see computers as nothing more than a toy, or a way to get "free music and movies". Don't blame computers or children, its obviously the parents.
You don't really need research to figure this one out. Have you seen some of the articles, blogs, etc. on the net recently? It's almost as if people care more about expressing phonetical when writing more than gramatical accuracy and correct spelling. That's one of the main reasons the SAT has been changed in the States. Kids graduate from High School and can't write for shit. If you want an easy part time job, I would suggest becoming a tutor for college remedial english classes.
While I was in college, my sister was (and still is) a high school ballet teacher. She would bring home students' papers to grade over thanksgiving breaks. I would, occasionally, glance at some of the papers and be shocked at the terrible grammar and spelling. I swear it looked like an IRC chat log at times. It seems as though alot of kids don't realize that there is a difference between the way you speak to people (dialogue) and the way you write papers.
I also remember, here in the states, when our teachers would groan everytime we begged them to use calculators on math tests. They said "you'll learn more without them". They were right. Doing simple to mid level arithmetic in your head keeps your mind sharp.
On another note, look at the expression on the little girl's face who is sitting in front of the computer. Is that not classic a classic goatse reaction or what?
Probably the worst thing ever adopted by the education system, IMHO, is PowerPoint.
I don't know about you, but the moment a prof puts up a 'slideshow' and just reads it for the next hour, all education benefits go down the tubes.
I am more a fan of writing information out on the board. This forces the intstructor to explain themselves while they are writing. I think writing slows them down enough on a particular subject to allow their brains to think about all the extras they wanted to get across to the students.
First, let me say that I am a big fan of computing. I run a student linux user group, I am a computer science major, and computers will be an integral part of livelihood when I am working as a software engineer after I graduate in a few months. Still, I think computers are a big crutch. Consider finding the sum of the first 100 positive integers. It's extremely easy for me to grab a linux machine and type
rob:~$ python
Python 2.3.4 (#2, Dec 3 2004, 13:53:17)
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-2)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> sum(range(101))
5050
And if knowing the sum of the first 100 naturals was all that I ever needed, the computer would be extremely useful. On the other hand, if I had no computer, I would probably be forced to think of something clever, like Gauss, and actually learn something. The insight I derived from the thinking is much more valuable than the answer itself. I think the problem with computers is that they are a crutch as much as they are a tool.
I'd personally much rather hire someone who got in A in calculus without using a calculator rather than one who did it with a TI-89.
... than right here.
What Matters (Score:5, Insightful)
The guy didn't read the article, yet felt qualified to comment on it anyway. Other people who didn't read the article found his comments "insightful" despite the fact that they contradicted the findings of the article.
Re:What Matters (Score:3, Informative)
You did read the article and quoted part of it, yet your rating isn't as high as the guy's who skipped the reading.
Welcome to Real Life. It's just like this in the work force which is why the article makes so much sense.
It isn't what you know. It isn't what other people know. It's how well you can re-state their pre-existing opinions to impress them. It's all about what other people (who didn't do the reading) BELIEVE you know.
The vast majority of children who use computers today do not actually learn anything about them. They know how to use some apps like IM clients and word proccessors, but that's about it.
Contrast that with 20-30 years ago, when I was a child. Of those that used computers at all, the vast majority of children back then learned a lot about computers themselves. Those children are now posting on Slashdot today, talking about how much they learned about computers when they were a child, and so there must be something wrong with the study.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Even better - I have a 3-yr-old, and we already keep his computer time down. (It's scary how good he is a Need for Speed.) With another one on they way, I've started look ing for ideas on how to handle multiple kids on the computer, especially when they get older.
The best solution was my sister's (she has four kids): No one, including parents, get to use the computer, or watch the TV until everyone's homework is done. It's amazing to see her 14-yr-old helping her 12-yr-old with her math because the older one wants to get in some gaming.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
Now, obviously you need computers to teach stuff like programming, but other than that I believe they are a HUGE waste of money.
Cash-strapped schools blow hundred of thousands of dollars on computers, then have to hire multiple people to maintain them for hundreds of thousand more, then have to train the teachers probably also for hundreds of thousands more, all for what? So the time spent in creative writing class can be half writing and half finding a PC not infected with Michelangelo? And if the average school is anything like my HS was, you know ever single box has a DVD+/-RW, tape drive and optical ethernet that never get used but was sold to them by a now very happy salesman.
And meanwhile the $35,000 salary for the music teacher is cut, and the art teacher, and there is no money for a can of paint or block of clay or roll of film. My school went from a Flag of Excelence school to a school with no arts/humanities and you had to pay to play sports. But we had COMPUTERS! LOTS OF EM! Burning eletricity 24/7.
It is unbelievable how much my old school district spent on computers that were literally ONLY used to replace a pencil and paper in writing class, and maybe to teach a typing class. That and for games after hours, or during class. Programming was taught on a VAX system. Ok, I'm old. Maybe times have changed since then but I'd put money on it that it hasn't.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not only that but now teachers are judged based on standardized test scores so they teach the kids to do well on the tests instead of actually understanding the material or going outside of the boundaries of the test material.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning