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Are 'Monster' Cables Worth It?
Digitarius asks: "Are "Monster" cables really better, or are they just more expensive? I'm setting up my HDTV, and I can get Component video cables made by Belkin for half the price of the Monster cable equivalents. Are there any actual stats or studies to back up Monster's claims of superiority? So far most people tell me to get the Monster cables, 'just to be sure,' but what's the real truth?"
unless you're looking at a significant length cable run (25 feet or more), i highly doubt you'll notice any difference at all, even between regular patch cords and a "component video" set of cables (which are three patch cords bound together). i have used monster cable speaker cables and signal cables, and you'll not notice a large difference using plain lamp cord and regular cables. as far as component video is concerned, you'll want to make sure the three cables are as similar as possible, and i recommend true coax, with the proper resistance bnc terminated ends (52 ohm i believe). for rca component video, 75 ohm coax terminated in rca plugs works very well, a friend of mine pointed out that for analog audio, this setup works well. for both situations, the components being connected seem to appreciate the higher resistance cable. it helps to curb noise.
either way, unless you're looking at a long run of cables, pretty much anything will do well. and for digital audio, it dosen't matter what the cable is, if it'll pass the signal, it'll work, (there's no signal loss with digital connecitons)
all that being said, monster cables sure are purty... i like purty cables...
Cogito Eggo Sum, I think therefore I'm a waffle
...with my HTPC/HDTV setup. I have found that I notice no difference between the Monster cables I have and the other brands I have laying around. Only really important thing I can stress is Gold->Gold Silver->Silver. Don't mix and match those for corrosion reasons. Shielded cables are good, but they don't have to be the more expensive Monster cables.
The above is just my experience... and of course YMMV.
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
it doesn't matter if WE can hear a difference, if you cannot then it is not worth the money for you, even if money is not an issue as you claim.
http://www.rayn.net . Funny. Stuff.
As a physicist, I can tell you there are two important qualities for the wires, both of which won't affect the sound quality. Those two factors is how well the wires connect to the posts, and how well the wires transmit the signal.
If there were some frequency dependencies, then you would see a degradation of sound. But there isn't. If there were some variability of resistance based on current, then there would be a degradation of sound. But there isn't.
The only benefit your get from monster cables is a perhaps slightly lower resistance. That is all. The higher resistance of standard wires can easily be overcome by "turning up the volume".
So, Monster Cables are not worth it, strictly speaking. The only reason people get Monster Cables is the same reason people get gold-plated pens. Other than a status symbol, it is meaningless.
And besides, people who sport jewelry or expensive toys tend to be poorer than those who are more modest. (Case in point: It seems these spinners people buy for their cars are bought by the lower class in my town. Where they get the money for this, yet can't pay for their children's college education, is a question I don't think they'd want to answer.)
The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
Why is there an analog part of the signal chain at all?
-- Boycott Shell
Firingsquad did a test between different brands and different types (rca vs svideo). The results where pretty interesting:
http://www.firingsquad.com/guides/ps2picture/
Monster Cables are a giant scam designed to relieve gullible people of their money. Double-blind testing has shown time and time again that you can not physically perceive the difference.
There is a huge industry around selling useless crap to people. Monster cables will give you about the same results as rocks. (Yes, people buy those rocks and yes, they think they make their stereos sound better.)
I highly recommend that you check out the James Randi Educational Foundation, and do a site search for "audiophile" or the like.
Frankly, I don't know what scares me more: the fact that someone will honestly claim that a magic rock will make music sound better, or the fact that people will pay good money for one...
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When I got into audio I thought all of these things mattered, but I slowly realized that I couldn't tell the difference. Much like I can't tell the difference between a diamond with E color and F color. 12 years ago back a company introduced a cable that somehow carried different frequencies at different rates or some other similar magic - I really can't remember. A friend of mine swore he could tell a difference, I couldn't. He dropped hundreds on the cables, I didn't.
Visit one of your friends who is recommending monster cable, listen to his system. Swap the cables with lower-end ones, and see if you can tell the difference. That hour of time may put your mind at ease.
I can't say that I did an empirical review to accurately measure differences, but recently I purchased an HDTV and was wondering the very same thing. I tried several different "just normal cables" one being the cable the cable company gave me, one being regular coax, one being a cheap svideo, and one being a top of the line from radio shack, and a component video set from Monster. The coax was the worst of them all, the sideo cable being second worst. Then came the cable company component, which still wasn't that great. Some of the colors seemed a little washed out, and I could see some signal noise, but that was probably due to my setup. Then I finally tried out the Monster cables. I saw an immediate difference over all the previously tried, the signal came in nice and clear, and there was no color bleeding, and no signal noise visible on my screen. But of course results may vary.
I would personally go to a store, and keep the receipt and just try it out, and see if you notice a difference.
No. Monster cables are overpriced and unnecessary.
For digital signals (e.g. DVI or SPDIF audio):
Use a good-quality cable. It doesn't have to be expensive or elaborate, but you'll want to ensure that the conductor is large enough and the shielding (if it is necessary) is good. Also ensure that the connectors are solid. Most cables meet this criteria.
For analog signals (e.g. Component Video):
Follow the rules for digital cables. You may want additional shielding and. Ensure that the cable has the correct impedence. Make sure that the connectors can provide proper RF isolation.
I've found that the Philips cables found at Wal-Mart are quite sufficcent. They have nice metal connectors and are well-shielded, plus they have strain relief. They run about $15 to $20 for 10ft (component video).
I was recently shopping for a DVI cable for my HDTV, and was blown away by the US$80 AND UP prices I was finding around town. 80 bucks for a bloody 1 meter cable!?!? Thankfully, someone pointed me to http://www.pacificcable.com/ and I found a 1 meter DVI-I Dual Link for $22. (I am not affiliated, just a satisfied customer)
The Monster-type cables are the profit center for the A/V stores. They have to compete for pricing on the actual gear, where they may get less than 10% markup from their cost. On cables and accessories, they can get up to 40% or more. There is no way that one cable is better than the other, provided the connectors make good contact at the jack. Don't waste your money.
.... solidity and good build quality matter just as well. Especially for musicians - as a guitar player, I've lost count of how many times I've tripped on a cheap cable, only to find out I'd ripped one end off or something. Good build quality is something I've paid for in the past and got my money's worth for.
Produce the highest fidelity output possible.
Just make sure you use Bose speakers, none of that Sony or Nakamichi junk.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Here's a little hint: you don't actually hear much below 20 Hz or above 15kHz (if that: at 20 I could hear the 15kHz horizontal sweep on a TV; at 50 I can't.) Unless you've got perfect pitch and a music degree, you don't hear most of those little details of voicing etc.
What you --- and everyone else --- does do is react to suggestion. When the audio guy comes in and puts you in the fancy listening room, he gives all sorts of suggestion cues to let you know that the more expensive system "sounds better". And sure enough it does.
Of course if you're contemplating buying monster cables, you've also probably gotten a multiple thousand dollar system, which means the guy in the audio room already got to you.
" To be honest, I haven't seen other cables perform as well."
In what context? Did you engage in double-blind testing? Was there a control? What do you mean by "perform?"
"We are ordered by Corporate to not use the demo on ANY other brand of protector besides 'Monster'"
The reason for that rule is simple. Any other protector will give the exact same results as the Monster one. Monster is not a cable company, it is a marketing company. They take components that are no better than standard ones (often manufactured in the same factories and then branded) and market them at a higher price-point.
Insecure and gullible people assume that the high price is justified, when in fact their products provide zero benefit.
Not to sound cruel or flamebait-ish, but you are either very naive, or else a Radio Shack/Monster shill.
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Having good cables won't make a shitty amp sound good, nor will it make your grandfather's hand-me-down speakers sound better. Start with a good amp and set of speakers, then worry about cables. That being said, I think it depends a lot on use. If you're expecting the Balrog roar in Fellowship of the Ring to tear the flesh from your skull because you bought Monster cables, be ready to be disappointed. But if you're a classical music afficionado, the extra clarity might be more apparent.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
For the physics inclined, have a read here about skin effect in audio cables.
The basic idea is that electrons ride the outside of a conductor, not equally through its cross-section. The depth of the 'skin' depends on frequency. You might think that stranded cable would do better then, since there's more surface area, but because the strands aren't insulated they act as a single conductor, providing no skin-effect benefit. There is an exception, cables of 'Litz' construction, where each conductor is individually insulated, creating a virtual cable of effective diameter without skin effect.
My take-away from the linked article is that skin effect does have a slight effect on sound quality that can be measured and possibly perceived. Swinging back to the topic, Monster does make a Litz speaker cable, but it runs you $1500 per 3-foot cable - this isn't Best-Buy level Monster cable. A Google search on Litz at monstercable.com only provides two hits, both 3rd-party write-ups.
So to achieve top theoretical sound quality, assuming good connections, etc., you can buy thousands of dollars worth of top-quality Monster cables or cheap cables with fat conductors. If gauge and weight are far more important than cost, say on a Space Shuttle or similar, then dropping $10K on speaker cable might be worthwhile.
This all has me wondering of anybody here has used 10-gauge Romex as speaker cable.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Just to be a tool, I'm gonna offer an opposing viewpoint from the others here.
/. unless you want to be told that a bit is a bit and how it gets from point A to point B doesn't matter.
First off, don't ask audiophile questions on
Second, look at your audio rack. How much did you spend there? For my $250 Pioneer and $20 VCR, the cables don't matter. What's the point.
But if you spend thousands on components, why skimp on a $10 cable vice a $50 one? The price difference is negligable. It's like complaining about a WinXP license on a $20k server. Just buy big and never worry.
Now, some annecdotal evidince. I recently replaced all the cables from my $250 receiver to my $300 surround speakers. The stock cable was 20 guage aluminum. The new stuff is 12 guage copper. My system now sounds better.
One poster advised you to "just turn up the volume". That's no good when you start driving the internal components to near their peak output. Turning it up just causes more noise.
As for the interconnects, I've used everything from RCA solder-type connectors on 26 guage wire to monster cable with no real difference.
But, if you spend thousands anyway, why skimp on Radio Shack cables?
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
I worked on F-15 radar and avionics in the Air Force. Working with radar teaches you a lot about signal loss. Monster cables are pure marketing and nothing else. You can actually hurt the quality of signal by using a cable that's too large or thick.
Don't buy the cheapest cables you can find, but don't buy the most expensive either. I saw the post below about spending 1/10 the cost of the equipment on cables and that's nothing but marketing also. Cable really is cheap. It's cheap to make and cheap to build. Some cables are expensive because they know they can get away with charging those prices and not because they're any better than the competition. A cable for a $4000 tv is going to be more expensive than a cable for a $150 tv, simply because hell if you're willing to spend $4K on a tv then you're willing to spend $100 on a cable. Just buy decent cables and you'll be all set.
Ugh - that's one store I definitely don't miss.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I researched this same topic, and it led me to blue jeans cable, named so because their aim is to be, simply, an unpretentious commoditized version of "name brand" cables.
As most other posters here seem to be reinforcing, Monster and the like are short on specs and long on "voodoo" - though they look nice. The fact is, using high quality materials, tools, and techniques isn't rocket science.
Those of your sitting smug with your all digital system should take note as well.
Just because your signals are digital doesn't mean that the sound isn't going to change because of the quality of your cable.
Even the brand of hard disk that you use can effect the quality of the audio you get from your system.
You need to check that your hard-disk is insulated correctly as well. Installing vibration isolators in your computer can effect the sound coming out of it.
Want proof? This guy is a sound engineer and has performed extensive tests on different hard drives and transport mechanisms. Did you know that the same file played from the CDR can sound different if it's played from a FireWire hard disk?
-- Hulver's site
If you think there is an audio cable that is WORTH 3000 Euro a foot, I seriously suggest you reprioritize, but hey it is your money.
Insert pithy comment here.
To say that any old cable is the same as the next is not true in my (admittedly limited) experience.
I have not done quantitative measurements, but recently I bought one of those multi-format DVD player (ie. can read a data CD/DVD and play avi & mpeg files). It came with some cheapo cables that I tried and it was terrible. There was a thin bright line that slowly moved up and down the screen, and there was a persistent hum that could be heard whenever the volume was turned up to any reasonable level.
On a larf, I went and bought some of the less expensive Monster cables and the problems totally went away. I assume the shielding made the difference here. I dont attribute my observations to some magical Monster pixie dust, as any other brand of decently constructed cable probably would have been an improvement over the crappy cables that came bundled with the DVD player.
The moral is that from a quality perspective,there is probably no need to go out and pay the premium for Monster cables, but you dont want to use cables from the dollar store either.
There is another reason to go Monster that no one seems to have mentioned yet, the lifetime warranty. Cables dont really break down, but I was told at the checkout that I can get a replacement *under any circumstances*; even if my dog chews it up. We'll see if they actually honor that 5 years down the road, but that's a benefit that has to be worth at least a little price premium.
Actually, a better experiment would be to swap the cables when your friend isn't looking, and see if HE notices. Also, wear Kevlar.
I used to work for a manufacturer of high end hi-fi speakers. While I wasn't directly involved with the development of the products I often used to get involved with blind listening tests and at first found it quite suprising what made a difference to the sound.
My observations were that with speaker cables, as long as the cables are big enough to handle the current requirements you could almost never tell the difference.
I never heard a difference when changing between digital patch cables.
It is hard to say whether one cable is better than another. What was noticable was that some cables coloured the sound more than others - not easy to test for with out plugging them in and listening. Some cables sounded different with some sources than others, but I don't know that it was something that you could pin down scientifically as 'better'. You certainly couldn't tell by looking, or by price.
Interestingly, changing things like the manufacturer of discrete components in the active crossovers did change the sound quite noticably.
and you've got his expensive monstercables instead of those cheap ones.
Bullshit gold is the best conductor. Silver has much much lower resistance.
If I had a bull that was shitting gold, I wouldn't waste it by using it as a conductor.
I'm just sayin'...
Check out this site :
Reference Audio Mods
If you feel an urge to buy *any* of the stuff on the page, well then monster cable is definitely for you.
A 30 watt solid state amplifier , costing 6000 bucks (!), that doesn't come with a power supply - the battery supply (!!) suggested is another 2000.
Seriously, now - What. The. FUCK.
Oh, and some nice wooden turned volume knobs for that extra sweetness in the audio (!!!) will only set you back another 500 each, because as we all know "the micro vibrations created by the volume pots and knobs find their way into the delicate signal path and cause degradation (Bad vibrations equal bad sound)."
I keep this page bookmarked as "Audiophiles are idiots", and send to anyone who asks me about what kind of cabling they should run for their system.
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
IMHO Monster cables aren't worth it. I've also seen many forums echoing the same. They're gimmicky and luxury priced, and I've been annoyed before with the extra girth of some of their connectors. I have little doubt that they are over all high quality cables though and I've had them fail like any other cables too. I cackled when I saw monster cables for xbox for $50.
N N&subcat=VIDEOCAB&prodClass=&search=0&off=0
N N&subCat=VIDEOCAB
That being said, I'd go shop where broadcast people shop for such things, since their quality requirements are much more stringent than circuit city's offerings.
I found these guys a few years ago (their catalog is yummy):
http://www.markertek.com/CatList.asp?cat=CABLESCO
monster cable is mysteriously not on their list of cable manufacturers that they stock:
http://www.markertek.com/MfgList.asp?cat=CABLESCO
Neither is Belkin. I personally don't like most of belkin's products, and often have found that they're just cheap rebranded stuff, usually overpriced and caused me much pain and woe. Also I always suspected Belkin's name was selected to be confusable with a far superior cable maker, Belden (which also happens to be carried by markertek).
Best of Luck!
Firefox &
The manufacturer of both of those most expensive cables is Siltech. Other notable "high-end" audio cable manufacturers are Kimber Kable, MIT Cables, Nordost, and AudioQuest. Monster Cable isn't even considered "high-end" by most audiophiles. The fact that Monster is synomous with high-end cables is proof of their effective marketing.
And to answer the question, just buy Radio Shack cables.
What you say is true, one should *always* use oxygen-free copper, for any type of connection, audio, video, or power. But you didn't mention how to recognize if a copper cable is oxygen-free. So, here is a tip: cut the cable with pliers, if the fresh-cut surface is copper-colored then the copper is, indeed, oxygen-free. Copper combined with oxygen, i.e. copper oxide, is black.
Now, what I cannot understand is why you and some other people keep bringing up this "oxygen-free copper" thing. I have never, ever in my life seen a cable made of copper containing any significant amount of oxygen. All copper cables, no matter how cheap or expensive, are "oxygen-free". Copper is purified by an electrolysis process, which is the cheapest and also the best way to purify copper. It's as simple as that, for copper more expensive doesn't mean best.
Now, the oxidized surfaces that you mentioned are a different thing. Copper will oxidize in contact with air, no matter how oxygen-free it was to begin with. The important thing are the connections, they should either be soldered, or the connectors should be airtight.
Having said that, now let's forget the myths and talk practical. How to choose a cable? For high frequencies, which means video or radio frequencies, use a coaxial cable with the right impedance value. The impedance is printed on the external insulation of the cable.
For lower frequencies, which means audio and power, use 5 amperes per square millimeter. If you live in the USA or Myanmar/Burma, which are AFAIK the two countries that still use "imperial" measures, get a table that converts from AWG (that is "American Wire Gauge") to square millimeters. For all other countries, wire is sold in "square millimeter" sizes, so no conversion is needed. To find how many amperes the wire carries, the formula is I = sqrt(P / R), where I is the current in amperes, P is the power in watts, and R is the impedance in ohms. sqrt means the square root, of course. Speakers are normally 8 ohms. For power cables, divide the power in watts by the voltage in volts to get the current in amperes.
For me the most important thing to know about Monster is their recent spate of lawsuits against anyone who has 'monster' in their name. Check out this google search for more info. This is absolutely insane and has caused me to personally boycott Monster even though I used to like their cables.
OK. I worked for a good cable TV company out of the South Bay Area for a couple of years. They did contract work for hospitals with big budgets, among other things.
... each one of those cables acts like a weak two-way antenna. On certain channels, you'll pick up interference from PG&E, the local broadcast channels, and whatever your neighbor is doing over his crappy cables.
I can't talk much about Monster Cable for audio use, but I can speak from experience about its use for TV applications.
Basically, it sucks.
The parent post is correct about shielding, but they fail to mention that shielding is also important at the connector, and they fail to mention the different kinds of shielding available in TV cable, and why it matters.
Let's say you live in an apartment building in a metropolitan area. Channels 2, 4, 5, 11, and 13 are probably being locally broadcast strong enough that a decent antenna will pick them up and give you a watchable picture.
You also have a poorly shielded TV cable running from the TV, to the VCR, one to your game console converter, one to the set-top box if the cable company requires one, one to your DVD player possibly
And, being properly shielded throughout the sheath isn't enough: you need the connecter to fit tightly, and you need it to be attached to the cable correctly. If you split the sheath away from a good TV cable, you'll find an interwoven series of fine aluminum strands, spread over a solid aluminum layer, surrounding a stiff dielectric core. The end of each fitting should be set so that the inner part of the fitting sits between the aluminum layers.
Poor shields include: a real thinly interwoven set of aluminum strands (not thick or tight enough, no solid aluminum layer), four aluminum wires (just plain dumb, this is totally useless), and thin or flimsy dielectric.
Good TV cable will feel stiff if you handle it. The crappy stuff will handle like a wet worm.
Specifically, Monster's TV stuff doesn't have good fittings. I never bothered to take one of their cables apart to inspect the shielding, but great shielding won't make up for their crappy fittings.
Also, the metal in the fittings really doesn't make a bit of difference. Gold-plated fittings are usually junk, you don't want those.
Based on my experience with the TV hardware, I'd never consider buying audio stuff from them.
The parent may have had really really crappy TV cables, and replaced them with slightly less crappy Monsters. That doesn't make Monster's stuff good, though.
There's all this talk here about audio cabling and listening and such, but TFA wants to know about video cabling.
It's just 75-ohm coaxial cable. It's a hand-me-down from the broadcast and defense industries.
If you were a broadcaster, you'd care about flexibility and long-term durability, and buy good professional-grade stranded-conductor RG-59 from someone like Canare, like just about all of the other broadcasters do for their temporary video interconnects. You'd then solder or (preferably) crimp your own connectors on, because then the resultant cables would both the proper length for whatever you're doing and you'd know that they were assembled correctly. Or, you'd have a company like Markertek assemble them for you.
But you're not a broadcaster. Nobody is throwing your wires across the room. Nobody is walking or driving on them. Nobody is using them to rig lights or props with.
You don't give a whit whether it's stranded or not, because it will be relocated (at most) several times a year - instead of, perhaps, several times per hour in a production studio. You do, however, care if they're assembled correctly.
And you care about having the proper length - extra cable length is hard to deal with in the typical home theater, and always reduces signal quality.
You also care about bandwidth, perhaps even more than the broadcasters do. But that's not a huge problem, as NTSC video only goes up to a few MHz.
RG-59 [1] is typically used at hundreds of MHz (think: cable TV), and is thus way more than sufficient.
So here's what you do. Buy some good, solid copper RG-59 from Lowe's, Home Depot, your local electrical contractor shop, or wherever. Look for cable that is shielded with foil and a braid, with a foam dielectric. And also buy a crimper. And some connectors. And a rotary stripper.
It's fairly self-explanatory from then on out:
Measure, cut, strip, mash, crimp. Boneheaded cable installers can do this stuff all day - any Slashdotter can tackle it without episode. Plan on wasting an end or two if you're unsure of yourself, but it really is bloody simple.
Just try to keep the three component video cables all at the same length, to keep things in sync with eachother. This isn't hyper-critical, given the real-world propagation delay of RG-59, but it's easy to keep things within an inch or so of sameness and so one might as well try.
You'll spend less on the kit than for a single set of most "Monster" cables, and likely be able to make hundreds of feet worth of custom, high-quality video interconnects with it instead of having just one set of gaudy purple wires that are all the wrong length.
And since RG-59 is so good that nobody outside of a marketing department has bothered to replace it after numerous decades, you should be good for a long, long time.
Enjoy.
[1]: Yep, I said RG-59. There's no cause to use RG-6 with baseband video signals, as there's simply insufficient bandwidth utilization and attenuation to justify the expense and added unmanagibility of RG-6. And it's easy to find reasonably decent copper RG-59, while the RG-6 typically available at retail uses a cheap copper-clad steel center conductor, which operates poorly at these frequencies (but works fine and saves money for satellite installations). And as far as anyone knew, RG-59 was sufficient for all residential video purposes until the advent of DSS, two-way cablevision, and 125-channel tuners. RG-59 is, in fact, overkill for this application. I don't care which one is bigger: RG-6 is just pissing away cash, unless you've already got some on-hand.
Kid-proof tablet..
Balanced "XLR-type" cables are shielded, that's why XLR has 3 pins, 2 for signal and one for shield. The 2 signal wires are a balanced low-impedence circuit with common mode rejection and all that good stuff but the shielding helps too. Also, in a phantom power situation both signal lines are at the same positive potential and the shield is needed to be used as the return.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
This whole Monster Cable debate reminds me of a time several years ago when I was a retail flack at CompUSA. While doing our weekly repricing, I had accidently miskeyed a SKU and ended up changing the price for a slow-selling, lower-quality (by brand) CD-ROM drive upwards by about $40 in the stores inventory system. When we discovered the error later in the week, we also noticed that the sales of this re-priced drive had increased as well; in fact, they were the top seller in the category. Needless to say, we didn't change it back.
Reminder: Apple owns 1/255th of the internet.