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Followup on MS and Brazil in NY Times
putko was one of dozens to submit a story running on the NY Times about Open Source and Brazil. The choice quote is
"We're not going to spend taxpayers' money on a program so that Microsoft can further consolidate its monopoly..."
I agree with one of the sentiments in the article:-
Others say the government should focus its technology initiatives elsewhere, especially in schools. Only 19 percent of Brazil's public schools have computers.
This is where technology can be most wisely spent, where it will have the greatest benefit, and where kids will actually learn about computers.
Of course it'll also be most effective at creating a mindset that isn't geared towards using MS products.
If only other politicians had enough backbone to use tax money in ways that benefit all the people who paid for it, instead of ingraining a monopoly ...
A computer without Microsoft is like ice cream without ketchup.
Brazil has also become the first country to require any company or research institute that receives government financing to develop software to license it as open-source, meaning the underlying software code must be free to all.
This is really a wonderful, wonderful idea. It's a shame more governments haven't adopted this philosophy. Lots of governments just find it so easy to spend money that they didn't "earn". I have to congratulate Brazil on this!
I store my recipes online (the way nature intended)
Who ever toughed the Brazil government to understand open source can you come up here to Canada and explain it to our government.
Theirs no way the American government would ever take into the idea of open source but Canada might.
A psychopath can't tell the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath knows the difference - he just doesn't care.
Especially amusing seeing the MS `Does Linux Lower Your TCO' adverts splattered all over this story...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
It makes me happy that Brazil setting a good example by putting Open Source as a requirement. This means that other governments now will more seriously put this as a requirement. What makes me most happy is not that it gives Microsoft more power, but that it gives Open Source development a good push in the right direction. I do not think governments who turn to open source will save any money, though, Linux is equally expensive in the terms of support and those kind of things. But this does mean that the money that would go to closed vendors will now, at least in Brazil, be used to develop Open Source. And that development will in turn be put back into the community to the benefit of all. This is truly a nice day for all who use Open Source!
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
"...instead of giving consumers the option of paying..."
While I applaud their efforts, I also question their motives. Less options != good thing.
Debt clock
You see that more and more where MS has to compete with it's competitors it looks that all the free software available for Linux makes the difference.
There is a large difference between a low cost crippled windows version without any significant software package and a free fully complete OS with all the packages available for free...
Guess what most people are going to pick when they are informed correctly?
Most computer literate people, with experience on windows will switch to pirated copies of XP. Some will do it at the beckoning of their friends. But most will just use what comes with their computer so that they won't break their computer.
Funny thing is that when they see what will happen to their friends unpatched pirated copy of XP in a few months, they will realize that was a wise choice
once more into the breach
The head line says that it is about free software, not open source. The difference is remarkable.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
"That the masses cannot be allowed to make their own choices, because their choices might include Microsoft?"
The *government* are not the masses. They choose to opt for a cheaper solution, whats the problem?
Its pure capitalism, Microsoft are free to offer Windows free and open source to Brazil, if Microsoft can't compete why should Brazil make a special exception for them?
If Microsoft was a Brazillian company I think that quote would have been from the US Government, but they can't make quotes like that or they will lose their MS deals.
Brazil should go with Linux and used the save money on depth charges to get rid of the Great White Sharks that are hunting in packs and actin a fool.
Or better yet, they can use the money to restore the rainforest, or to buy back land from McDonalds farms so they can stop the slash and burn technique.
[cx]
You are trying to conflate three issues:
/.ers agree that governments should interfere in a free technology market?
/.ers agree that the choice of technologies the government of Brazil is making are good?
1) Do
2) Does a free technology market exist for the government to interfere in?
3) Do
The answers are: no, no and yes. There is no contradiction here. The people of Brazil will have the option of buying a Windows OS from a store blowing away their shipped configuration and installing Windows. That's the same right that Americans today enjoy with respect to Linux. It will be interesting to see how many people do that.
If the IBM Government invests $70 million in Microsoft licences for imediate problems then they have nothings but a renewable license to show for it.
If the IBM Government invests $100 million in OSS than the next time they need something doing, OSS with be $100 million better. Infact when Brazil next want something why should they pay for Microsoft cut down Windows when the IBM have just put $100 million into free software.
Investment in OSS is investment in your own country, not in Ireland or the US. Investment in OSS is incremental so that anyone can take out regardless of how much they put in, the money doesn't go on the next XBox advertising campain.
Getting the job done is one thing, but Governments are about making sure the job gets done in the feture and around the world just as much as they are about Today and in you back yard.
Consider what Brazil has done in the recent past:
- Photo-ed and fingerprinted incoming American citizens in
response to America's change in visa policies.
- Charged fairly hefty import tariffs for PCs to promote
local industry.
- Promotes Brazilian music, and indirectly, interest in
Brazilian culture and tourism, via the encouragement of
free music downloads [I read this in a magazine, but
can't anything online confirming it. Can anyone help?]
I'm not saying that these are necessarily all good things. I just want to say that Brazil tends to do it their way, in spite external pressure.It's nice to see a country actually withstand to pressure from the multi-nationals and try to implement a policy for the benefit of all its citizens, rather than the usual vested interests. Let's just hope it doesn't become corrupted.
Also, recognize that Brazil is interested making their population computer literate. This includes the longer term goal of developing a viable computer software industry. Open Source is an inexpensive and suitable platform for giving everyone a software development environment. Why only a few may actually use it, I'm sure it will create a lot of talented programmers.
---- It won't be as bad as you fear or as good as you hope, but it will take twice as long as you plan.
The government should also be focused on developing their infrastructure and that includes getting their citizens into the software industry as coders rather than point-and-click morons.
It will be far better for them, as a country, if their people start learning how to fix bugs / add functionality in Linux (kernel/desktops/apps) than if they just build database apps in Access.
Ideally, it will only take a few years for them to bring a bunch of people up to speed and then those people can start expanding/enhancing Linux to meet whatever needs the government/people have.
Rather than waiting until the next release of Windows which will require even faster processors / more RAM / better video.
all i can say is it's about time the brazilian poor were given a break. i used to live there and every day i'd see them being harrassed, shot at, caught in drug war crossfire, ignored, dying of treatable diseases and generally treated like dirt. being made to use microsoft's absolute bucket of shite excuse for an operating system would have been the final insult.
FTA: But the preference for open-source software has been controversial, with critics inside and outside the government saying Mr. da Silva's administration is letting leftist ideology trump the laws of supply and demand.
I really fucking hate this. This is the typical newspeak propaganda used by companies terrified of losing their stranglehold on consumers by loudly bleating "Communist" into the air in order to get support from the more paranoid fringes of society, such as politicians who get kick backs from such companies.
What Supply and Demand is this guy talking about? Does he mean to infer that all those people should remain uneducated because they can't afford to buy some bullshit company's overpriced product? Tell that to the people yourself, you cunt. Also tell them that buying Microsoft's Windows will make them even poorer than they currently are, since the only way Microsoft is ever going to sell Windows at a low price is to sell some ultra crippled piece of shit such as the Starter Edition which no one wants.
With FOSS, if they *become* educated, they can read the source code - or they can ask someone who *is* educated to read the source code for them.
Hear hear!
While I was an undergraduate, even though I was taking classes, I got an in-depth education in software mainly by reading code:
- partly from listings,
- partly from disassembling a whole operating system with a little help from a listing of its predecessor when it was much smaller,
- greatly aided by a scheduling system that left me with time on my hands waiting for my turn at the machine, or the machine on my hands waiting for output to be printed and input to be punched,
and then making upgrades to it.
(One of the first upgrades was to build, first an editor, then a full-blown emulation of the Dartmouth Basic run-what-you're-edtiing environment (but using Fortran on a tape-based machine). Then I didn't have to wait for listing-to-card, card-to-tape, and tape-to-print services and could do a debugging turn in minutes rather than one or two per day. That drastically accellerated the learning process.)
This was in the days when OSes were so small that you COULD disassemble them single-handedly in a few months of part-time effort. But having a home machine, complete source code to a very advanced system, and powerful software development tools in your hands 24/7 (maybe divided by number of family members) should make a similar learning experience easier, faster, and deeper for those people of Brazil who wish to try it.
I expect an ongoing avalanche of new stuff from them, starting within a couple years after this program gets off the ground.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I don't think Brazil is making it illegal to use Microsoft software. They are simply not subsidizing its use.
Jesus, just read the article for once. You already posted this exact same sentence further up as if you found something you could complain about and ran with it without actually thinking.
Again, I repeat FTA: "Buyers will be able to pay in 24 installments of 50 to 60 reais, or about $18 to $21.80 a month,"
Does Dell allow you to pay over 24 months? No, I didn't think so. Is the Brazillian government forcing people to buy these cheap computers? No, you can buy HPs, Dells and even Macs in Brazil, and the government certainly doesn't care about those who can afford it, but is offering a cheap solution for poor people, of which there are a lot in Brazil. It's not the USA and American principles don't reign supreme everywhere, much to the chagrin of people like you.
"The people of Brazil will have the option of buying a Windows OS from a store blowing away their shipped configuration and installing Windows. That's the same right that Americans today enjoy with respect to Linux. It will be interesting to see how many people do that."
Zero (give or take a few). Some might communise... *ahem* I mean steal a copy of Windows and reformat their hard drive. However, since most of these people have never used a PC much, they won't really have much motivation to switch to Windows. The reason that a lot of people insist on using Windows is because they're used to it, so it's easy for them. They often complain about their favourite programmes not being available under Linux. The poor Brazilians in question do not yet have such a collection of favourite programmes.
Why do you think that people would use Micro$oft products? They don't know ANYTHING about computers (yet), so they won't be bothering themselvs to install something they don't know how to use. They will use what came with the Connected PC.
Micro$oft doesn't want to people start using Linux because it's the begining of the revolution. Think this way: Which one is most likely to get a job on a small store that already uses Linux? The guy with a Connected PC with Linux or the one using Windows?
I don't see why people should be forced to pay for software when they don't want/need it. If some people decide they need Microsoft Windows they can buy it and load it on themselves.
Who are these mythical "/.ers" you keep talking about? Slashdot has over 800000 registered acounts. You seem to think all 800000 must have the same opinion.
The Brazilian government is doing a great thing. This scheme is intended to help stimulate their economy and grow their educated classes. They're using Brazilian tax money to do it. Why should they squander that tax money on proprietary software from anyone, Microsoft or otherwise? Free Software can be used for nothing, or a fraction of the price. It's a sound economic decision.
" They're not offering Mac OS X either. Nor AmigaOS, BSD, Gnu/HURD, Irix, Solaris, VMS, MS-DOS, Plan9, BeOS... "
......Mmmmmmm, let's see. "User", by definition, is not one that meddles into how the thingy works. I do not see many cars with the bonnets up, and their happy owners using up the last of their wrenches.
BUT, maybe, just maybe, a small percentage of the users will want to see how it all works, and start trying to change the program, a bit here, a bit there...and voilà, as a country, you are the happy owner of at least a hundred linux programmers!
So, the moral is... you have a home grown software industry. No windows user grows into a windows programmer unless he's able to access MORE programs, probably formal training. And anyway, the thing that can scare Brazil off the most is that MS quashed competitors in the US, , so there's no point in trying to establish a MS centric software industry.
"If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
People here in Brazil have 2 choices today.
Buy a expensive computer(cash or monthly) with legal Windows copy or buy a cheaper(cash, or 3 installments) in the gray market with pirate Windows.
Now, besides those, people can buy a cheaper computer paying monthly(24!) with Linux. Dont want Linux? Dont like?
Buy a windows copy, cash, for about 50% of the hardware price you have.. or by a 5 CDs for U$10 with Windows, Office, and whatever you want...
Where is the problem? They're giving the 'right' to people to feel good not having to pirate anything...
Id prefer people to have the choice for one, or even both systems. BUT, no one is disallowing MS to offer for those that buy this PC a special offer on Windows, very cheap and installed for free. Its just not OEM installed, but also not charged from those who dont want windows at all