How Much Respect Do You Get?

droidlev asks: "In our continually fluctuating economy I have seen a drastic change in the level of respect that I receive. As a technician I've grown accustomed to a heightened level of respect when I walk into a client's office. Not to say that I have a God complex, however, it feels good to walk into a room and be appreciated. I'm passionate for the computer work that I do; I'm 'GEEK' for it. People know that I'm there to help and solve their problems. There is good amount of value in this extra level of appreciation and respect. This is especially true when you are developing business relationships (and of course it never hurts to be liked). In recent times, however, I've been cast in a different light; actually more like a darkened shadow. I am now seen as a necessary evil instead of the 'all powerful technician.' So I ask what your experiences have been, either as a computer technician or another professional? Have you seen a change in the level of respect that you receive?" "Businesses are trying to save every penny they have. Unless something significant goes wrong, they handle a situation themselves. This only compounds the severity of a problem. By the time I get there, everything has gone to hell and I get a look (the it's-all-your-fault look) from every cubicle and every office. In the past, exceptionally dedicated service translated to loyal clients that didn't mind paying a little bit more. Once I was the problem solver, now it seems I am yet another flame to burn their money."

Comments

Yeeah, I don't buy it.

[Skyshadow]

Let me start by saying that, odds are, you get the respect you deserve. Please don't confuse this respect with mugging for compliments, expecting your coworkers/managers to thank you in their prayers or any of the BS that, reading between the lines of this topic, I get the sense the OP was *really* looking for. If you're looking for people to kiss your ass all day, go get an MBA and become a petty mid-level manager someplace.

Granted there are ups and downs in the industry at large and variations from employer to employer, but by far the most significant factor in determining the level of respect people show you at work is your own conduct. If you've noticed that the people at work suddenly seem to respect you less, IMO the first place you need to look is at your own conduct. Are you really working and behaving in a way that earns and demands respect? Overall, this shakes out into two basic keys:

1. Earn respect. Know your stuff, be willing to help people out and be someone that people can stand. Own your responsibilities. At the same time, don't try to be an expert in matters you don't really understand and don't try to force your big nose into other peoples' work. Be that guy that people want to work with and want on their team. It's perpetually amazing to me that such a high percentage of people in the professional world (not just geeks) fall down on one or more of these three and then act shocked when people hate dealing with them because they're either incompetent or impossible to work with (which amounts to more or less the same thing).

2. Demand respect. There are always going to be people who try to make you do something or bypass you or whatever by running over or around you. Don't stand for this -- be professional, be polite and (if it's someone up the foodchain from you) remember your place, but leave it crystal clear that in matters where you hold responsibility, you will not be cut out and you will not be strongarmed. This is an attitude, and it's not "respect mah authoritah!" attitude that I see a lot from geeks.

Competence and confidence are the keys to garnering and maintaining the respect of your coworkers. Really, they're the keys to success at life in general.

Re:Yeeah, I don't buy it.

[CallFinalClass]

Overall, I agree, but for #2 I tend to use "Command Respect" instead of "Demand Respect." The difference being is that any idiot can demand respect, even if they haven't earned it.

Re:Yeeah, I don't buy it.

[Soko]

Exactly.

I had another manager who tried to go around me, when I was a new hire (I'm Regional IT Manager) - hadn't been there a month. In private I politely told him "I have no problem with you getting a bit of IT gear that you need if I'm not around - I just need to know that you've done it and what you bought. I have a budget too, and I also need to make sure anything IT related that comes in the building fits in our target architecture and doesn't cost too much."

He got a little out of joint because of that, but it became clear to him that he wasn't allowed to just buy whatever he needed without my approval, which is what he was used to doing. He's since turned out to be quite an ally - after that incident I let the subject drop and have also gone out of my way to help him when he needed it. I saw that he was an IT advocate, not someone trying to beat me down.

Besides Competence and Confidence, you need to be able to squelch you emotions and focus on what's important to the task at hand. People don't normally go out of thier way to show disrespect without zero cause - you should try to understand where the hostility is coming from.

If you need to rant against your cow-orkers, there's The Scary Devil Monastary, where such behaviour is accepted (and usually appreciated).

Soko

Re:Yeeah, I don't buy it.

[Anonymous Luddite]

>> 1. Earn respect. Know your stuff,

In a big organization, sometimes it is really hard to get past the initial expectation/distaste people have after having had to deal with incompetent support staff/programmers/whatever holding "paper" certs and one year quickie "degrees".

Half our problem as IT workers is the incredible amounts of scholatic "SPAM" the tech bubble engendered.

Example?

I got handed a new hire for my last project. He didn't know the difference between stack and heap, signed and unsigned or how pointers worked. Not only was he useless to me as a programmer - a drain on my time, but frequently, and loudly exclaimed that he had graduated with "HONOURS". That he was an "engineer!". and FFS, this guy graduated from my ALMA MATER. The last three hires have been from different schools but not much better..

that is why we don't automatically get respect. Too many of us don't deserve it.

Re:Yeeah, I don't buy it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree about command vs. demand too.

I would also add, be generous and share your solutions; don't insist on being the go-to guy for repetitive bullshit. Document your solutions and make them freely available. Make your worth a function of your ability to solve new problems, not repeatedly re-implementing the same old solutions over and over just to get paid.

It's the perceived difference in whether you are a high-priced button pusher, or a problem-solving resource. The former will always cost you respect.

Along the same lines, when helping in the acquisition phase, don't skimp on spending money for a real solution vs. spending less on something that requires more of your intervention.

Respect...

[grub]

... is something you earn. If people are treating you like a dirtbag then work on improving your image.

We are now an expense.

[jellomizer]

We lived threw a change in the way that IT is viewed. It changed rather quickly too. Back in the late 90s early 2000 IT and Techs were seen as the bringer of new and terrific stuff that is supposed to make their life better. Now that most everyone has got all this stuff that supposed to make there lives better they found out it only allowed them to do more and harder (So except spending a day typing out the pay role, you are now Printing the payroll and managing benefits.) work for the same pay. So you are no longer the guy who will bring a company tons of money threw web sales, but the guy who needs to make sure the now built website doesn't crash, and if it did then there is lost money. So you are now considered an expense, or as best a long term expense to lower TCO. We are no longer money makers. That is why some "Programmers" with High school degrees who said they knew HTML got these 100k a year jobs, making crappy web pages because these web pages were to make the company money so they saw these web developers as technical marketing department. But now after the infrastructure is set up and they realized they didn't need Joe Smo "HTML is Frontpage right?" we became an expense. It is not that we personally lost the respect of people. But we are no longer looked upon as money makers. But more like a power bill, or a maintenance crew.

In theory, everyone goes to work to add value

[filmmaker]

The best thing a technical person can do for their employer, and hence for themselves both in terms of respect and gratitude and monetary compensation, is to do extra things that add value to the bottom line.

For instance, if you're not involved in the analysis and design phase of software, maybe watch the market more closely so as to know what suggestions to make in terms of features and design. If you're not a programmer, then look into ways to add value by improving the company website; maybe freshen up some content, add an RSS feed, or look for ways to improve the aesthetics and page copy of a conversion page (such as a point of purchase page, for example). Look for ways to improve conversions from affiliate lead sources.

I know how easy it is to go "down the rabbit hole" when writing code. You get lost in the code. You dream about it; it's the only thing you think about. And it pretty much has to be that way. I try and periodically take some time off from writing code for short intervals specifically to come up for air, so to speak.

But most significantly, realize that everyone arrives at work precisely to add value to the company's bottom line. Everyone arrives at work in order to solve the problems to which they are assigned. There is certainly nothing unique about IT in that manner.

However, if you're truly being treated like a pariah, I would ask, who is responsible for "casting" you in such a unfavorable light? It could be office politics. And of course, there's always the chance that you're too much like the IT guy in those Jimmy Fallon SNL sketches.

How much respect do you give the pizza guy?

[SweetAndSourJesus]

Really, the aura of godliness geeks had has been gone for years.

We're not really all that special, we never were.

It's just a job, man.

Re:How much respect do you give the pizza guy?

[Cheeze]

I beg to differ. What is an IT job? It's a 24/7/365 job. Now go think of other 24/7/365 jobs, police, firemen, doctors, etc.

I'm not trying to equate IT work to those other jobs. Heck, sometimes, IT work is MORE important than those jobs. If you work IT in a hospital, you know what I'm talking about.

Respect is a function of personal relationships..

[segfault_0]

I found that the respect i get is a function of personal relationships with those individuals and not really a function of what i did. People who arent technical tend not to look at our craft as fondly as we tend to do, they dont see the things that we see in it, and therefore it often doesnt hold the same appeal or respect. Those who do show that respect often respect you as a person or have an affinity for technology and can appreciate what you do more than the norm. Either way, even if you sweep the floor, and you do it to the best of your ability and treat those around you with respect, youll tend to get it in return. And ask yourself, if you expect them to be in awe of you just for walking in the room, how much do you really respect them?

Respect will continue to decline

[winkydink]

How respect do you give the guy who fixes your washing machine?

Computers are being viewed more and more as another applicance. A means to get things done. Not some mysterious and all-powerful machine. As this perception becomes more widespread, the respect given to people who repair them will approach that of people who fix other appliances.

The are no more Priests of the Temples of Syrinx (obscure Rush reference).

It's more like politics

[EmbeddedJanitor]

To get respect in an organisation, ironically, often means shelving your self respect. Too often, the only way to plug in to the corporate ladder means selling out to a life of brown-nosing and playing the game.

Having to deal with techies and reality is an annoyance for managerial types. What seems more important is the power play on the corporate ladder.

To be part of the "in crowd" means playing the game. Brown nose, buzzwords and running a general line of bullshit. As a techie not interested in the corporate power chain, but rather in shipping good product and making a real profit, I find it hard to get a reasonable audience. Sure they'll usher me in the back door to fix a multi-million dollar problem then out the back door again when the job is done, but they won't listen as to how the problems can be fixed.... mostly because they're often process or political problems, and rule number one of the corporate power game is "don't step out of line".

Re:It's more like politics

[shirai]

I keep hearing this over and over like it is fact, but honestly, I don't know anybody who likes brown nosing in an office environment. INCLUDING the management. I think what you are really saying is, you need to SHOW RESPECT to GET RESPECT which is pretty fair. Isn't it ironic when a manager shows respect to employees he *GETS IT* but when a tech does it to his manager, it is brown nosing.

Allow me say that I'm sure you are well-intentioned by your post, but I think you may be looking at this the wrong way.

Just as you don't expect the "corporate power chain" to understand the tech stuff, you probably don't understand all the management stuff your audience does. But life is better when you do (just as visa versa). Don't we love managers who understand the technology? Of course. But you can do the same the other way. Let me ask you, do you understand your manager's problems?

I know it is not your job to understand it, but it will help immensely. Like have your tried wording your suggestions in a manner that will appeal to management? Have you tried tying it to real numbers?

For example: By simplifying the architecture of the system, I estimate that we can reduce the time spent on fixing bugs by 50%. Also, since we are reusing code, adding more features is easier. I predict we can also write code faster by a factor of 25% because there will be more code re-use. Although this will result in an up-front investment of three months work, additional changes will be easier and faster to make. The net result is that within about 6 months, we will be in the same spot but with a better architected system. [Okay, this is NOT the report you'd write, but you get my drift]

By the way, I used to do this all the time. I'd often make reports with suggestions outlining why I recommend each aspect and what effect it will have on the business.

I'm happy when people make suggestions, but as a manager, it is HARD to do the work to the next level. For example, if you are managing 10 people, spending 30 minutes a day with each person takes five hours leaving three hours left in a day. Most managers don't have the time to figure out the logistics and they don't understand the problem as well as you do. I love it when somebody comes up to me with all the arguments thought out. THAT is easy to process.

Having been raised on tech and management principles (graduate of a business program), I can say that people who understand both the tech and the management side are the most valuable people in the company. Become one. We need more.

As a related aside, I am now the CEO of a successful and profitable Internet company. And of course, I still read slashdot.

Janitors/electricians of the 21st century

[Seoulstriker]

IT has changed from implementation to maintenence from the 90s to 2005. Not to be offensive, but when you're maintaining a system or installing updates, or making the network run smoothly, you're nothing more than a lowly technician, someone who has mastered a trade. Rather than bringing forth the unknown as technicians did in the 90s, they are just doing something that someone else doesn't want to spend time doing. When technology was new, there was a mystique in understanding how these computers run. But that mystique is long-gone. Just as in the early days of electricity, it seemed so new to commonfolk, and electricians were seen as magicians for knowing how it worked and how it can be fixed.

If you want more respect for what you do, do something beyond maintaining systems or technician work. Do something that requires intelligence to design the systems. Mystique fades quickly once everyone gets used to the technology and you're not the one propelling it forward.

The importance of walking around

[lildogie]

I learned an important lession when I was providing 24x7 support for a network management center.

At my boss's advice, I visited the end customers each and every workday.

They began to associate me with the system while it was working. In contrast, some admins only showed up when their systems were broken. They were usually greeted with "Here comes trouble!"

My relationship was so good that, when the system broke in the middle of the night, the customers would do their best to get by until morning, even though I assured them that it was my duty to restore it during the night.

Being around to take credit for things running smoothly is indispensible.

Re:Egoless professionalism

[kin_korn_karn]

You are stating that respect is a zero-sum thing where there is a finite amount of respect to go around. If I am respected by 0% of my customers, and you are respected by 100%, I don't need to diminish your level of respect to increase mine.

Also, regarding your comments about backstabbers: there is nothing wrong with looking out for yourself. You never really know who the backstabbers are until they 'strike' and when they do, those who are expecting it and have a counter are the ones who survive.

Your 'egoless programming' groups worked because you all respected each other, not because you gave up on the concept of respect.

Varies

[Tom]

Respect is an odd currency. Those who understand absolutely nothing of what I do, and should give me respect when they enter my territory, offer the least.

In general, respect has declined during the past years, even though my abilities and credentials inside my profession have increased.

There are also different kinds of respect. I have learnt to not give much on statements of respect. My boss tells me five times daily that I'm the most knowledgable security dude in the company - but my advise on security matters is apparently not important enough to warrant action.

Two former bosses had the proper method for expressing respect towards techies: Not only did they say "you guys know best how to do this, just get it done", they also followed through with it and got out of our ways. One was the CTO, the other was brilliant in keeping other trouble (higher-ups, users, other bosses) away from us while we worked on the problem.

Genuine Vs. Displayed

[nick_davison]

You're accurate about genuine respect.

There is however displayed respect. That special kind that gets displayed whether you're actually deserving of it or not.

This is the kind that gets displayed to an utterly incompetent CEO (to his face at least) because, well, he signs the checks and, whether you respect him or not, if you piss him off, you're screwed.

During the dotcom boom, most IT people got the displayed kind automatically. I remember being outright told, "You don't need to worry about HR and viewing unsafe sites. In the current economy, we can't replace you. You piss them off, they recommend you're fired, we refuse to do so because we can't lose you. End of story."

If a client pissed you off and you quit - or refused to work for them - it was [perceived as] way too hard to get someone else in. Thus they sucked up and displayed respect whether they felt like it or not.

It's a logical OR statement:
Genuine and Displayed: Respect is shown.
Genuine only: Respect is shown.
Displayed only: Respect is shown.
Neither: You're screwed.

What sucks for many in the IT field is that they were never really deserving of genuine respect, they just got the displayed kind because IT salaries were so nuts. Now the boom has burst and starving developers are [perceived as] a dime a dozen, they no longer qualify for the displayed kind. Thus, if you were genuinely deserving of respect, you continue to gain be shown it. If you were only ever getting the displayed kind - well, you don't merit it anymore.

Of course there's one other aspect to it. Scott Adams calls it the way of the weasel. Genuine respect still requires genuine people. In the typical workplace, many people will show respect if you genuinely deserve it - but there are still plenty of cretins who will screw anyone over, deserving or not, if it suits them. For them, whether you warrant genuine respect or not, they'll only ever show it to you if you warrant the displayed kind as, otherwise, you're not helping them directly and they can, therefore will, screw you.

Re:Genuine Vs. Displayed

[CFTM]

In a somewhat related note, it reminds me of something one of my friends Dad said, "You can go anywhere in this world with a wave and a clipboard". In essence, you play the part of someone doing something important and no one gives you flak ... same sort of idea.

Re:Genuine Vs. Displayed

[Dolly_Llama]

The second incident happened when I went shopping after spending the day in interviews. I was still in college and this was the first time I had really been out in public while wearing a suit. The level of respect from the sales staffed was an amazing difference from what I was used to. Even average citizens were happen to hold the door open for me.

In the same vein, I had a great big green mohawk in high school. In a strange accident, part of it caught fire, and I was thus forced to shave the whole 'hawk off.

The change in attitude I got from everyone around me, whether they had seen me with the mohawk or not was remarkable to me.

I went even further by growing my hair out and cutting it into what I referred to as a 'young republican' haircut (side part, faded sides). The difference again seemed like orders of magnitude.

The lesson I've learned is that while respect is something you can earn, it's also something you can steal by inference. If people infer that you are important, that will treat you that way.

What we have here is a model of authority that is culturally implanted in each of us. If you seek to wield some particular authority, it helps if you can model yourself after this idea that is already lurking in the heads of those you would seek to influence.

Re:Genuine Vs. Displayed

[lskutt]

The second incident happened when I went shopping after spending the day in interviews. I was still in college and this was the first time I had really been out in public while wearing a suit. The level of respect from the sales staffed was an amazing difference from what I was used to. Even average citizens were happen to hold the door open for me.

Actually, I think you forgot to take one important factor into account: Your own behaviour . When you "dress up" in a suit, take a good long shower, have recently gotten a haircut, a shave and put on some after-shave, you start to act differently. You probably act more confident, smile more, look people into their eyes etc. when you feel good about the way you look. The same goes in reverse, of course. When you feel hung-over and have the breath of a rabid dog and just pop out to get a quick snack, wearing what was in the bottom of the basket -- then you're not exactly going to act like you owned the world. And people will treat you differently.

This is, of course, not the only thing that matters. But it plays an important role in the subconscious feedback that we get from other people.

Re:Respect or co-dependence?

[soupdevil]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind doing favors for friends and family? My grandma never charged me for her oatmeal raisin cookies, and I have frequently asked my lawyer or doctor friends for advice. My brother is a physical therapist, and he sent me a list of exercises when I sprained my ankle. No bill, just free advice. And a nifty ankle brace that fit into my regular shoes.

Agreed

[ferrocene]

We have gone from the guy who saved them from their ignorange, since everything was so brand new and they felt stupid, to the equivalent of the plumber or phone guy.

Since the technology isn't that new anymore, they don't feel dumb anymore when it breaks. Everyone "knows" that it's Microsoft's fault and nothing they did could ever cause this much distruction.

How many times did you hear customers belittle themselves while you tried to defend their dignity: "No, no, it's nothing you could have prevented. Oh, no, you're not that stupid. This is hard." It's the only time I've ever heard so many millionaires and businessmen call themselves idiots.

And now? They don't even want to know how it works, "just fix it" is the reply. No more apologizing for their stupidity.

Maybe everyone finally realized that they're not stupid after all. Or maybe, they're tired of software breaking when it's not their fault. Parhaps this is OUR fault for telling them for years that, no, they didn't do anything, they're not stupid. Perhaps it's time to go back to confirming a person's insecurities. :)

Class.

[Lemmy Caution]

You can get great respect for performing your job brilliantly, or you may be ignored. Yet it will not really change your position substantially.

Suppose someone at a fast food restaurant does a bang-up job of serving your food - gets the order right, the food is prepared perfectly. You respect him. But do you think he's now in the same tier as you? Maybe you'll give him a few extra bucks, but you probably won't invite him to your parties and you'd feel pretty weird if your graduate-school educated sister went out with him.

Well, that goes in both directions. Your B-school educated manager, or PhD-awarded engineer or researcher, is going to give you respect for a job well done. But if you think that translates into access to a new tier of status and esteem, think again. A lot of IT geeks think that their mastery over one piece of infrastructure should translate into general esteem for their intellectual prowess, but that's as much driven by resentment and an inability to understand what's really going on around them as anything.

Re:Class.

[gregfortune]

Actually, I hit on a signficant realization when I was in my later years of high school. I met a bus driver who was doing an "excellent" job of driving a bus. Not a job I would aspire towards and certainly not hard, right? Except, that day I realized he was better at being a bus driver than I ever could. His attitude, driving skills, etc, etc blended to make him the ultimate bus driver and I instantly placed at or above the perceived class level of my target job.

It's happened many times since as I've met people from many lines of work and it's just as evident that you can be a respected professional in any industry. And I sure as heck hope you can appreciate someone with this kind of "class." It's not the job they're doing, it's the quality of the person standing in front of you. Good people are hard to find.

Re:Class.

[pla]

or PhD-awarded engineer or researcher, is going to give you respect for a job well done. But if you think that translates into access to a new tier of status and esteem, think again.

Uhh... Have you ever actually hung around with PhD engineers? They love geeks. They worship us. They hold doors for us. They lavish us with praise. They can actually grasp the units of measurement when we ask them to pass us a metric hex driver.

Why?

Have you ever seen a PhD cry when the $3k frontend to their $150k NMR goes down?

I don't think they even care (or possibly know) the cost difference, but they perfectly understand the idea "the box I use to justify my salary no longer works. Please please please keep me employed".


Your B-school educated manager,

Ahahaha, gimme a frickin' break. You want to compare an aloof twit to a PhD? The PhD I would actually tolerate a bit of flak from, they earned their title. But a manager with an inflated title and degree? I will assume, for the sake of argument, that I have no choice but to help them (since I would gleefully watch them suffer otherwise). But as any IT pro knows, "make it work again" lies a whole world away from what we can do for someone we actually want to help. SpyBot? AdAware? Never heard of 'em. Sounds dangerous, don't run them. FireFox? Damn, man, you want to get the company branded as a bunch of communists? Backups? Oh, you mean you have to re-enter all those reports by hand? Bummer, eh? Automatically recreate them with Crystal? Hmm, sounds like a drug reference, you should sack the bastard that told you such an off-color joke.


I don't want people to suck up to me. I don't want people to grovel. And that includes management. I just want people to appreciate (in its most basic form) what I do for them - namely, nothing short of making it possible for them to do their job in the modern world.

And no, I don't generally play BOFH. At my current job, I consider even the management pretty cool (of course, an owner on a first-name basis with most of his staff really makes for a MUCH nicer environment). I help them out to the best of my ablility because I want to. They deserve it, by treating me as a human rather than as a number in HR's files.

Re:Respect or co-dependence?

[msaulters]

Did you ever interrupt your Grandma in the middle of bingo to demand she make some oatmeal cookies? Ever call your brother up and interrupt a therapy session with one of his clients, demanding that he stop, because your sprained ankle is keeping you from doing 10 other things that you just HAVE to get done?

I get calls from friends & family demanding help with their viruses, M$ installations, bugs, printer jams, you name it, while I'm already busy working on the CEO's system.

I manage a LAN/WAN environment with 7 locations, 75 customers, and 500 Cisco IP phones. Do they respect me? Yes. Do they show it? Not monetarily... no raise in 2 years.

But let me put it another way. What was I doing on that CEO's system? He demanded I clean his keyboard, because someone spilled something sticky on it.

wow...

[Cryptnotic]

(check by sort "oldest first")

A first post with the words "frist psot" on slashdot modded +5 funny? That's impressive. I guess it's like that old saying, you can fool some of the moderators all of the time and all of the moderators some of the time... or something.

Re:wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I have a +5 insightful?

Respect is a function of comprehension

[starfishsystems]

A phenomenon that I've noticed over the course of my career is a overall decrease in respect for computing professionals as computing becomes more ubiquitous.

This only makes sense. An increasing proportion of people who use computers come from the general population. In relation to computing professionals, their position is increasingly that of consumers rather than colleagues. The traditional respect for a professional which is based on an informed recognition of ability is bound to suffer.

That's one main factor, as I see it. The other is that our culture is going through a characteristic phase of technology change in which adoption is followed by social disruption. The same process happened as agriculture transformed social structure, and again during the industrial revolution. This time around, we have other major forces of social disruption at play as well, including globalization, the inversion of market and social values, and the accumulation of ecological effects which began with the previous two revolutions.

Some of these forces are pretty abstract, even though their effects are not. But the force of technological change is manifest in an unprecedented flood of new artifacts into people's lives. As bearers of that change, we make a very visible target for frustration not only with the artifacts and their mysterious technology, but with disruptive forces in general. Our very competence can become a liability.

my boss admitted it ...

[crimethinker]

... in a salary discussion. The context is that I work in a very large company with many gratuitous layers of brown-nos^W management. As you rise higher in the food chain, your bonuses and stock options grow. People like me and my peers, who do the actual work, are never eligible for any stock options or the like. Once a year, we get a measly bonus while our CEO gets millions of dollars and hay bales of stock certificates.

So my boss tried to console me with some lip-service: the engineers are more valuable than the managers. You see, the company can find a new manager without too much trouble, but replacing an engineer, someone who can come in and pick up the hardware and the code, is much more difficult. This led to the obvious question: if the engineers are so valuable, why don't we get the huge bonuses and stock options?

I'll let you guess at his answer, but here's a hint: I updated my resume that night.

-paul

Re:You come when things are broken.

[tarsi210]

Well, usually a lot because he performs a task that I can't do myself. And I like it when shit doesn't shoot from my walls. :)

Dude, it was never "respect."

[pclminion]

What it was, was ass-kissing cleverly disguised as "respect." With the current glut of technically savvy people, due to the tech bubble, this sort of ass-kissing is no longer required. You can be replaced at the drop of a hat.

True respect is earned because of the kind of person you are, not the things that you do (insofar as those things are not a part of who you are). Comport yourself with honor, be respectful of others, and you will earn their respect in turn. That you think having some inscrutable technical knowledge should earn you respect is, frankly, revolting.

Janitors-yes, of the Microsoft Plumbing

[couch_warrior]

I wish to coin a phrase, if no one else has done so.

We are now "Janitors of th Microsoft Plumbing"

And why are we viewed with such disdain? Imagine how you would feel about your plumber if you had to call him in two or three times a week to unclog your stopped toilet.

People expect computers to be a consumer appliance that "just works". We get a share of the blame for the appallingly low quality of shrink-wrapped software that is barely beta-test status when shipped to production users. (Test the software?- that's what users are for; Configuration Cotnrol? - that would dip into profits, let the DLLs crash, they can always reboot)

You want respect - install OSS software that doesn't crash, and get paid for adding value in the design process, instead of billing hours for reaming the t3rds out of the M$ toilet.

The Reward for a Job well-done: More Work

[N3Bruce]

I know it is one of those trite cliches, but the better you do your job, the greater amount of work that comes your way, whether you want it or not. This phenomena is not unique to my line of work (field service) nor is it modern (my dad lived it too).

As people develop expertise in their field, their primary responsibilities take less and less effort than they did when they were new. Eventually things then tend to progress in the following manner:

1. Because of your good work, your accounts are happier with your company or run more profitably than they might otherwise be. They take on more business and buy more equipment from your company. Guess who gets to service it! Okay, you were getting bored anyway, and so you welcome the new toy.

2. The boss notices that you don't have to work very hard to keep up with your responsibilities, and knowing this, he asks you to "help out" the guys working on a difficult problem at another site.

2a. Once you establish a positive track record of fixing difficult problems, your name rises to the top of the list of who to call when there is trouble. You get an Attaboy, and wangle a free lunch or two out of the boss. That and your sense of accomplishment is your reward, but not much more money, except for the overtime.

2b. As your reputation spreads, your pager starts to go off at all hours, day and night. Blearily eyed, you trudge off into a snowstorm at 3 AM on Sunday Morning to drive the 50 miles to fix a half-million dollar machine with a turn of the screwdriver and a few taps on the keyboard. You get home at about 9 AM, just in time to get paged again by the same customer for another machine. After this debacle, you resolve to test and end up spending 3 hours doing preventative repairs to all of your company's equipment at the site before leaving. After putting in 14 hours, you arrive home. The following week, the regular tech has his easiest week in months, but you get mildly reprimanded for putting in too much overtime. Boss apologizes when you point out that the work was billable at off-hours rates.

3. For the reason above, the boss asks you to "cover" another tech's accounts while he is out sick, on vacation, or forgot to turn on his pager. Being the dedicated employee you are, you oblige, and fix a bunch of things the regular guy has neglected. The account now has higher expectations from the equipment, which means that the boss or the other tech will be calling on you frequently to maintain the performance of the equipment.

4. You are asked to help train new employees, and to work with "problem employees" to improve their skills. Training new guys with talent isn't too bad, though it is time-consuming. Trying to work with guys who have teflon-coated brain cells is ultimately futile and a waste of time.

5. You become the boss's confidant and right-hand man. He asks you to cover him on weekends, vacations, and golf outings, in addition to your expanding list of regular duties. Your cell phone rings on vacation. It's the boss pleading for help.

6. The boss eventually retires, gets promoted, or takes another job. You are now the new boss, and have to take responsibility for everything. First item on the agenda after buying a new suit for all of those client meetings: Finding a replacement for yourself in your old job. You no longer have time to do the tech work you love and were good at, instead you are buried under a mountain of paperwork, meetings, and reports. By the way, you are now on straight salary and are on call 24/7.

Welcome to the Corporate Ladder!

Re:It's about customer service

[oc255]

There's one problem with explaining things nicely. It's really, really hard to do.

Prepare for huge blanket statements ...

Why are programmers usually geeky properllerheads with little social skills? Probably because they stare at code all day. Did you hire them to smooze?

Why are sales guys finger shooting suits? Probably because they sell things to people who don't want to spend money, smooth out issues and network all day. Did you hire them to be introverted and shy?

Sorry to generalize but IT people are bitter because the job is fighting fires all day. Make a sales guy code for a year and most will start watching Star Wars and have little to say at parties. Make a developer sling deals and pitch to high powered VPs and I bet people think he's greasy and fake. I'm stereo-typing in a major way but I've seen really happy people turn sour in a position like helpdesk/desktop support.

It's just a thankless job where you only can dump on your PC/desktop vendor. People seek power and bottom rung is no fun for most.