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The Rocky TiVo-DirecTV Relationship

Posted by timothy on from the after-that-she-hardly-spoke-to-me dept.

Thomas Hawk writes "Phillip Swann's TV Predictions is out this morning alleging that before dumping their TiVo stock last year, Rupert Murdoch's DirecTV had made a pass at buying a controlling stake in TiVo. According to Swann, 'TiVo's top management did not like Murdoch's offer,' and Swann alleges that this is why you had a fallout between the two companies. As an interesting aside, Rob Pegoraro over at the Washington Post was out yesterday warning people to not buy an HDTV TiVo, as DirecTV will be changing their high-def signal later this year and that if you bought the HDTV TiVo that you might not be able to watch network TV in high def. As an owner of one of those expensive high-def DirecTV TiVos, I sure hope this isn't the case."

60 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. YAFM (Yet Another Fine Mirror) by winkydink · · Score: 5, Informative

    Mirrored links

    Thomas Hawk writes "Phillip Swann's TV Predictions is out this morning alleging that before dumping their TiVo stock last year, Rupert Murdoch's DirecTV had made a pass at buying a controlling stake in TiVo. According to Swann, 'TiVo's top management did not like Murdoch's offer,' and Swann alleges that this is why you had a fallout between the two companies. As an interesting aside, Rob Pegoraro over at the Washington Post was out yesterday warning people to not buy an HDTV TiVo, as DirecTV will be changing their high-def signal later this year and that if you bought the HDTV TiVo that you might not be able to watch network TV in high def. As an owner of one of those expensive high-def DirecTV TiVos, I sure hope this isn't the case."

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  2. When will they by RedElf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Standardize on one format or another so we don't have to buy a new TiVo like device every 6-18 months?

    --
    You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!
    1. Re:When will they by jm92956n · · Score: 3, Insightful
      ...Standardize on one format or another so we don't have to buy a new TiVo like device every 6-18 months?

      As soon as planned obsolesence becomes illegal.

      --
      An effective signature identifies a particular user amongst a base of thousands.
    2. Re:When will they by Sc00ter · · Score: 4, Interesting
      DirecTV is coming out with their own DVR that will be some kind of home entertainment thing. You'll have one "master" system that will do all the recording and then other systems hooked up to other TVs that will get the information from the master system. It will also allow streaming from your computer for music and pictures.

      There is only two "formats" of TiVo for DirecTV, the normal ones that record the stream from the sat, and the new HDTV TiVo's that cost a grand. So I don't see why you would have to buy a new one every "6-8 months" as you suggest.

      If you call them now and inquire about a DVR they direct you to the new home entertainment unit that will be coming out soon

      --
      Free Mac Mini
    3. Re:When will they by taniwha · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Actually I think they probably are - DTV was bought by Sky a while back, DTV's signal is just about the most non-standard satellite/cable signal there is out there (everyone else uses relatively standard transport streams, DTV use something of their own design). Sky on the other hand uses DVB (what just everyone else in the world but the US cable/TV guys use - including DiSH).

      While I work in the biz (but none of sky/dtv/tivo) I'd guess that Sky are making DTV switch to DVB so all their gear is interoperable

    4. Re:When will they by baudilus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When people stop buying them every 6-18 months.

    5. Re:When will they by Em+Ellel · · Score: 3, Informative

      personally, I still own a pair of Series 1 DTivos from about 5 years ago and they still work great - no plans to upgrade any time soon. You do not HAVE to buy a new device of any sort every 6-18 mos, you WANT to. Do not confuse the two.

      -Em

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    6. Re:When will they by jlaxson · · Score: 2, Informative

      And there are multiple types of streams from the Satellites, plus ATSC from the OTA tuner. DirecTV is rolling out MPEG-4 for new HD channels, which the current HR10-250 currently can't deal with. And you do have to buy a new one every 6-8mo if you're doing HDTV Satellite. I just had a HR10-250 (my first Satellite system ever) installed today. They sure as hell better offer a cheap upgrade path.

      --
      On Apple Input Peripherals: They're okay, I guess, but I was really hoping for a one-key keyboard and a 109-button mouse
  3. it's true by skaeight · · Score: 5, Informative

    Directv is switching to MPEG-4 encoding this year with the launch of the spaceway sats. I'm sure there will be a transition period so your HDTiVo should work for a while, but there will come a point where you will have to upgrade.

    A couple of good sites to find more info are:

    http://www.dbsforums.com
    http://www.dbstalk.com
    http://www.tivocommunity.com

    1. Re:it's true by mr_zorg · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most of the HD channels currently on DirecTV aren't worth a damn anyway so no real lose. The regular sat channels will not be changing, AFAIK, and the OTA functions of the HDTiVo will still work.

  4. HD Tivo is obsolete by Ironsides · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As DirectTV is moving forward on changing to Advanced Video Codecs (AVCs) such as H.264 the current HD Tivos will become obsolete as they can only recieve the current encoding of MPEG-2. Sorry, but tis true. I also doubt that Tivo will make an update to the MPEG-2 HDs to recieve the new codec. Also, I have heard that DirectTV is moving to the DVB-S2 transmission standard from their current DVB-S. Extra information and/or signal strength, their choice.

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
  5. cablecard by alatesystems · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is why the CableCard is so important, so that multiple devices can operate like the company provided boxes. I have a cable company dvr, and it is really awesome, but if I wanted to use a brand name TiVo, I would be pissed at having to use IR blasters.

    As far as I know, there's no cablecard equivalent for satellite boxes, but there should be. Ahh, the incredible balance between freedom and regulation.

    1. Re:cablecard by wembley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The cable companies hate CableCard, which was federally mandated. They lose another revenue stream (hardware), and you have an interface they can't necessarily control and spam OnDemand ads onto.

      With the repeated granting of 1-year extensions on the CableCard deadline, don't hold your breath waiting for it. We still don't have all the HD content that was FCC mandated...

      --

      Share and Enjoy!

    2. Re:cablecard by Sc00ter · · Score: 3, Interesting
      In order for that to work then the signal would have to be the same, and it's not.

      I had a SA TiVo on cable for a while. I had the old style box with an IR Blaster and it worked fine, never missed a show or had any issues with it.

      Most digital cable boxes can be controled with the serial cable from the TiVo to increase speed and reliablility.

      The DirecTiVo units record the stream from the sats, so they are incompatible for that reason. But they give you PERFECT quality, something the SA TiVo's can't do.

      The signals will probably always be different between cable and sat, so I don't know what they could do. I see a future where cable companies use different encoding for their streams, making the cablecard worthless anyway :(

      --
      Free Mac Mini
    3. Re:cablecard by hazman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bzzzzt...

      There is no FCC mandate of HDTV content. The FCC has asked nicely, with a cherry on top, that broadcasters produce and deploy HDTV in hopes that the 15% of the US population that currently receives their TV content from NTSC broadcasts would go out and get a shiny new digital TV that can recieve and decode the mandated ATSC digital broadcast signal and the HDTV feature in supposed to entice that portion of the population to do so.

      Note: Those broadcasts are not required to be HDTV. They can be SDTV (480 interleaved @ 30fps) like current NTSC signals. EDTV (commonly 480 progressive @ 30fps) or HDTV (720p@60fps or 1080i@30fps). The broadcasters can choose to transmit 4 or 5 SDTV streams or one HDTV stream on their bandwidth allocation. It's their choice.

      The FCC has mandated a transition to ATSC from NTSC. The FCC has mandated ATSC tuners in television sets for sale in the US. The FCC has NOT mandated HDTV.

    4. Re:cablecard by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Informative

      you are a fucking liar.

      the Cable companies do NOT hate the cablecard. It's motorola, Scientifica Atlanta and Jerrold as well as other sattelite and Catv headend gear makers.

      all of them REFUSE to follow any standards and intercooperate to ensure headend and plant lock-in on cable companies. If you are an all motorola cable company you haveto throw away EVERYTHING to use any SA gear. Motorola Loves that. SA does the same damn thing.

      the cablecard gives up the monopoly of locking in the cable companies to a single vendor for their headend gear.

      the rest of the world uses a single standard... the US has several that are bastardized by each equipment makes to ensure there is no interoperability.

      so take your cabletv company hating LIES and go elsewhere.

      if you want cablecard to exist then tell Motorola to quit fighting it as well as the other equipment makers.

      if they ran the damned DVB standard like the rest of the world this all would be a non issue.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:cablecard by PepeGSay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Moderate parent up. He is dead right. Cable companies do not make any appreciable money on cable boxes. This is because the cable companies screwed up their provider model for the cable boxes and locked themselves into the few providers which they pay nearly $500 for a cable box. I worked for a cable company and this was one of the big reasons they supported the DOCSIS standard for cable modems which brought cable modems down into the $80 range, and possibly even lower now.

    6. Re:cablecard by wembley · · Score: 2

      While this may be true in the recent past, do you remember your pre-digital cable box?

      Was it, like mine and many others, a faux-wood-panelled box with two red LED numbers? Was that box 10-15 years old, long since paid for, and you were still charged $5-10 for it? Remember how they charged you extra for the remote?

      You can't tell me that by renting out all those ancient Jerrolds and General Instruments boxes, the cable company wasn't making a profit on hardware rental.

      The brave new world of cablecos losing money on boxes you cite is a result of the digital upgrades of the last few years.

      --

      Share and Enjoy!

    7. Re:cablecard by The+Vulture · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not the best way to start off a post, but you are correct. It's Motorola and SA (Scientific Atlanta) playing the game.

      However, at the same time, cable operators are afraid of CableCard. The advantage of freeing them up to use any frontend that they want also scares them. At least by forging a relationship with Motorola or SA, they can get their boxes branded and control the content. With CableCard, anybody can make a set-top box, with no branding, no advertising lock-in, and no guaranteed content protection.

      What I would really love to see is a PCI card that accepts a CableCard, which can be used to decrypt the digital cable content. Not so that I can spread the shows around the Internet, but so that I can use the features of my MythTV machine. (Yes, the content has to be decrypted for MythTV to really make any use of it, otherwise the PCI card has to have video out. MythTV would still lose the OSD feature, and it would be harder to configure.)

      Microsoft might be the closest ally on that, since they'll need a way to capture digital cable content for their Media Center platform (if they wish to continue that).

      -- Joe

    8. Re:cablecard by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Informative

      That is the bigest point. The suppliers INTRENTIONALLY obfuscate and tweak the "standards" to create massive lock-in. Yes everyone, I did not start out the post on a good note, and apologize to everyone about it, but I am sick and tired of people making things up and passing it off as fact. Almost everything the main post I origionall responded to is a lie. the FCC did not mandate HDTV, the cable companies do not hate the cablecard, these are all the current industry FUD and lies that are going around everywhere and espically on the AV forums on the net.

      I have several friends in the Cable TV biz, they all DESPERATELY want the cablecard to become a reality. They want the FCC to force a standard down the throats of these Digital headend equipment makers because they refuse to do it themselves because they will not be able to sell a $75.00 converter box for $500+ at lots of 10,000+ the digital cable box is one of the BIGGEST moneymakers for motorola and SA. The DOCSIS standard was the very first steps taken by the cable Tv industry to stand up to the companies like SA and Motorola.

      If it was not for DOCSIS and the cable companies banding together to effectively force the equipment providers to play ball (it also helped that there were lots of little players happy to get in on the game.... it's the same in digital TV recently, look up "cherrypicker" on google for one example.) then cable modems would still be a rent-it only item with the horrid bitrates from 3 years ago.

      I just wish that the FCC would give other companies the nod and certification to make headend and cable gear, some healthy competition from elsewhere might make the big equipment makers pay attention and settle on a real standard.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  6. This is Business news, really. by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I heard on the BBC WS this morning that LG and Matsushita had settled some stink about IP and plasma screens, which restricted markets in Korea and Japan, until settled, but didn't think it was 'News for Nerds' and was 'stuff that didn't matter'

    With TiVo selling out to Comcast and pushing pop-up ads, I can't feel much positive about them anymore.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  7. Foxblocking Tivo? by AtariAmarok · · Score: 5, Funny

    With Murdoch taking over all of Tivo, we'll need a sort of different kind of Foxblocker for this. I suggest gluing a couple of cable TV jacks to either end of a wooden spool, and inserting this in your incoming co-ax cable.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Foxblocking Tivo? by AtariAmarok · · Score: 2

      You thought I was serious? I personally find the whole Foxblocking notion to be hilarious: it is like sticking your fingers in your ears and going NYAAAA when someone says something you do not like. It is just as mature. Only this time, you are paying for them saying it (an apt comparison: those who block Fox are paying for getting Fox already).

      --
      Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  8. Times they are a changin... by barfy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am an owner of the HDTV box, and yes it was expensive, and it has already been broken and replaced once ...

    But it is the *ONLY* box that does what it does. 2 OTA tuners, 2 Satellite Tuners, both OTA and Satellite HD...

    But Mpeg4 is coming, and this box has NO way to deal with it. And even as an owner of the box, I welcome MPEG4, as this will give me what I really want... Not "digital quality", but "quality digital". Replacing all of the boxes out there is cheaper than building and launching a satellite. HD will be where they go first, but eventually ALL DirectTV will be mpeg4.

    I am sad that there was a breakdown between Tivo and DirectTV, because the combo *is* the best way to watch tv today.

    There is some promise apparantly for us HDTiVo folks to replace our boxes with something "as good or better". We shall see when it happens. For now, I LOVE my HDTiVo.

    1. Re:Times they are a changin... by Sc00ter · · Score: 3, Interesting
      But the new sat is for spot beams (locals). So if you have the new DirecTV DVR (the multiroom one that is not released yet), you'll be able to get all the same programming you can get now.

      Can you record your OTA HD channels with the HDTiVo?

      --
      Free Mac Mini
    2. Re:Times they are a changin... by badfrog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can you record your OTA HD channels with the HDTiVo?

      Yes.

  9. Pleasing customers by notthe9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I doubt that they would make the devices like the article poster's non-functional too soon, seeing as people who buy stuff like that are often the kind of customer who would get the most pissed off.

    Business before hate.

  10. Re:No problem. by Gannoc · · Score: 5, Funny

    http://www.epa.gov/chemrtk/vccep/sponsor2.htm

    pffft. Running water. All of you people out there with your runner water are just rotting your minds and bodies. In my family, we read books and discuss philosophy while making the 3/4 mile trek to our well. We don't use running water, and we're better people for it. Don't even get me started on electicity and your demon antibiotics.

  11. Re:No problem. by pjbgravely · · Score: 5, Informative

    I live in a fringe area with no cable. I can get broadcast channels using rooftop $150 antennas and signal boosters. I got a HDTV tuner and now can see of the channels crystal clear, that is when they are broadcasting, most aren't full time yet. I am only 45 miles from one city but the hills really block the analog signal, while the digital gets through. It might be worth your while to try next year when most will be digital.

    --
    Star Trek, there maybe hope.
  12. Yes it is true by doormat · · Score: 4, Informative

    DirecTV will be moving to a 8PSK signal modulation system and to MPEG-4 for HD for the SpaceWay satellite system, both of which are incompatible with the HD DirecTivo. You'll still get the old HD channels broadcast over the older satellites (Ku band, QPSK and MPEG-2), but none of the new fancy stuff (Ka band, 8PSK and MPEG-4).

    --
    The Doormat

    If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
  13. Answers to Foxblocking by AtariAmarok · · Score: 4, Funny

    Where oh where is the conservative answer to this? The "RatherNot (tm)" CBS news blocker. The "Clean the Air America" radio filter. The "Ted Turnoff" CNN filter. And last but not least, the "Moving Out" web filter that blocks moveon.org.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  14. Wikify:HD Tivo is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As DirectTV is moving forward on changing to Advanced Video Codecs (AVCs) such as H.264 the current HD Tivos will become obsolete as they can only recieve the current encoding of MPEG-2. Sorry, but tis true. I also doubt that Tivo will make an update to the MPEG-2 HDs to recieve the new codec. Also, I have heard that DirectTV is moving to the DVB-S2 transmission standard from their current DVB-S. Extra information and/or signal strength, their choice.

  15. I misread the title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...and thought "What the hell does Sylvester Stallone have to do with TiVo?"...

    1. Re:I misread the title... by gclef · · Score: 3, Funny

      And I thought: flying squirrels? TiVo? Really?

  16. Rocky & TiVo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bullwinkle: Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a TiVo out of this hat.

    Rocky: That trick never works.

    /Bullwinkle reaches in hat and pulls out MGM Lion's head.

    MGM Lion: ROOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR!!!

    Bullwinkle: Oops. Guess I need a new hat.

  17. They're doing both. by raygundan · · Score: 3, Informative

    The first thing in MPEG4 will be HD locals, which you don't have now, so you won't really be losing anything. Up next will be the existing HD channels, and that's where you'll feel the first loss. The real kicker is when the full MPEG4 transition occurs-- this is where you're going to lose all your non-HD channels.

    It's likely that they will offer you a replacement box (although this is just me speculating) for free or at a steep discount, since those of you with the HD-Tivo are highend customers. Unfortunately for the Tivo faithful, it won't be a Tivo.

  18. I love the smell of.... by AtariAmarok · · Score: 3, Funny
    "...arrangement of words called a sentance. please attempt..."

    I love the smell of self-immolating grammar nazis in the morning.

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  19. No surprise by sunderland56 · · Score: 4, Funny
    I'd have loved to be there during the meetings... one megalomaniac headstrong Brit and one megalomaniac headstrong Scot, in a room together, both thinking they're God. Wonderful. Odds on those two agreeing is so close to zero nobody's going to give you odds.

    I get DirecTV HD, but there's no way I'm spending one dime on anything so close to bankruptcy as Tivo.

    1. Re:No surprise by Generic+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I get DirecTV HD, but there's no way I'm spending one dime on anything so close to bankruptcy as Tivo.

      Okay, I can't just let this dog lie undisturbed. TiVo is not close to bankruptcy, despite their misgivings on Wall Street. In fact, as of their last conference call, they are expecting to turn profitable by the end of this year. They intend to balance revenue from three streams: hardware, subscriptions, and ad sponsers. That's good news for TiVo faithful.

      The bad news is that they plan to reach profitability by sacrificing the ideals which brought them the love in the first place. Their hardware gets less reliable each iteration and harder to hack (for your own software patches). They sell ad space on the interface top menu. And now they are beginning to push pop-up ads on their paying subscribers (while you fast-forward). The recent deal with Comcast will put some variation of TiVo software on Comcast DVRs, most likely with the pop-up ads.

      It remains to be seen how losing 2/3 of their base from DirecTV (in 2007) will affect TiVo, but they should be profitable by then. Don't hate TiVo for 'dying' like BSD and Apple. Instead, hate TiVo for sacrificing their own ideals.

      --
      { - Generic Guy - }
  20. DirectTV TiVos safe by deanj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you have one of those DirectTV TiVos, DirectTV is the outfit that sold it to you in the first place. If they change their signal, complain to DirectTV, not the TiVo.

    1. Re:DirectTV TiVos safe by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 3, Funny
      ...complain to DirectTV, not the TiVo

      No way dude!
      I'm complaining to Slashdot, as usual.

  21. I can't wait for the new formats! by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm glad to see I'm not the only excited about this upcoming switch! I mean, sure,
    Ku band, QPSK and MPEG-2 are alright. But
    Ka band, 8PSK and MPEG-4 are clearly going to blow them all away! (At least until Ko Band, ¥PSK and MPEG-7 come out...)

    1. Re:I can't wait for the new formats! by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ka band - It's a higher-frequency band that's currently far more open than the lower-frequency Ku band. It allows for higher-bandwidth satellite transmissions.

      8PSK - A new modulation system that allows 3 bits to be represented instead of 2 with each sample. PSK uses the phase of the signal to encode data. QPSK uses 4 different "levels", 8PSK allows 8. This also translates into higher-bandwidth.

      MPEG-4 - A new encoding system that provides better picture quality with less bandwidth.

      So, what does this mean?

      SPACEWAY, DIRECTV's new satellite family (there are 2 in-space satellites plus a third to be launched later), combined with the new band, new encoding, and new modulation will allow the holy-grail of satellite broadcasting: HD Local-Into-Local.

      By FCC law, DIRECTV can't transmit local stations to subscribers who live in a different designated market area (DMA). A person in Denver can't get channels from New York, for example.

      Currently, DRIECTV transmits local channels in pretty-lame-quality SD. There are almost 1500 high-power broadcasters in the US, so it's a tough job to cover them all.

      SPACEWAY has a lot more bandwidth. That means that DIRECTV will be able to carry *all* of the local channels in the US in HD.

      It's a long road, as DIRECTV has 13 million customers. Replacing all of those boxes will take a long time. It's probably reasonable to assume that DIRECTV's Ku-band services will continue at least until 2010, if not longer.

      So, what does this mean for the HD-Tivo user?

      - You will continue to get what you get now for a good long time

      - You can still recieve and record HD locals off the air

      - You will need a new dish, new multiswitch, and new recievers for HD locals off the satellite

      Also interesting is Echostar's ("Dish Network") response to SPACEWAY. E* is purchasing Rainbow DBS ("VOOM"), which will give them plenty of room for national HD channels. Even with VOOM and their current satellite arsenal, though, E* has nothing to really compete with SPACEWAY. E* will have to launch one or more new Ka-band satellites in the next few years if they want to stay competitive with DIRECTV.

    2. Re:I can't wait for the new formats! by lgw · · Score: 2

      Good standards bodies codify what's already in (or about to be in) the marketplace. Bad standards bodies churn out vapor standards that no one ever adopts. I think we just need higher standards in standards bodies ... perhaps if we has a standards body standard we could OUCH STOP HITTING ME

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  22. Re:TV? What is that? by Surt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To control people's minds, of course. Who wouldn't want to own such a thing?

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  23. Re:No problem. by Surt · · Score: 2, Funny

    pffft. You lazy people with your wells. My family treks over 30 miles with 20 camels to the nearest river on a weekly basis to bring home the water we need.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  24. A little off topic. by sbirnie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I had DirecTv once, and although I like the picture quality of DirecTv better than cable, the cost of buying several new receivers and a new HD dish is just outrageous compared to renting a cable company box for $5 bucks a month, with the ability to upgrade whenever a new box comes out. They need to use the same model if they want me to switchback to them - which I'd be more than happy to do.

  25. TIVO access to DirecTV by Digital+Pizza · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does the FCC's new CableCard requirement help with DirectTV access at all? And yeah, I do know it's CableCard, but still...

    --
    We apologize for the inconvenience.
  26. Rumored Trade-in Plan for new HMCs by ac3boy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is the rumored trade-in plan to get the new HMCs. It is very generous but I hope they stick to it.

    HMC Cost update.

    Latest info:

    Two base (HD HMC) units with different capacity.

    1) 240 GB - $499 + $99 for SD units and $199 for HD remote units
    2) 480 GB - $599 + $99 for SD units and $199 for HD remote units

    Trade in Values:

    HD-TiVo -> High capacity unit + 2 HD remote units
    SD TiVo -> Low capacity Unit + 1 SD remote unit
    SD Receiver -> Low Capacity unit and 1 SD for every three (3) SD receivers.
    It's basically a price match. For example, if you have two SD TiVo's and an standard HD unit, you can obtain the High Capacity + 1 HD remote unit in exchange.

    Values on units for trade in:

    Standard SD Receiver - No value for HMC - 1 for 1 on SD remote units
    Standard HD Receiver - Low cap HMC or 1 HD Remote unit
    1 TiVo - Low Capacity HMC + SD Unit
    2 TiVo - High Capacity HMC + SD Unit, or High Capacity + SD Unit

    Dollar Value:

    SD Receiver $99
    HD Receiver $399
    TiVo $199
    HD TiVo - $899

  27. Re:Murdoch will ace you for money by Hassman · · Score: 2, Funny

    *sigh* leave it to me to make a joke only to screw up and use the word "use" instead of "used".

    Blech.

    --
    -Mark
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
  28. Re:TV? What is that? by LetterJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No different than the mind control device that has managed to turn all people without a TV into automatons, reciting the same liturgy of disdain at every available opportunity. You are not morally superior, intellectually free or otherwise improved simply because of your rejection of TV.

    Likewise, I'm not a better person because I choose not to drink alcohol. Does not drinking alcohol give me more time to pursue more "noble" activities each week that is unclouded by alcoholic distractions? Absolutely. However, so would a number of other choices like avoiding Slashdot. Is my wife a better person than you because she abstains from participating on this site? No.

    TV is one form of entertainment out of many. And, despite the deep longings and ideal dreams of the anti-TV elite, removing televisions from homes will not result in 230 million Americans suddenly picking up Tolstoy. Rather, they'd simply turn to other forms of entertainment that demand equally little of their intellect.

    I enjoy TV. I enjoy movies. I enjoy books. I have not stated a logical paradox in the previous 3 sentences.

    --

    The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
  29. Re:One way to fix it by As+Seen+On+TV · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You, sir, have obviously not seen "Battlestar Galactica."

  30. It hasn't even helped with stand-alone Tivo! by swb · · Score: 3, Informative

    Last I heard, no CableCard Tivos until 2006, which is idiotic. Rumor has it that a rev to the CableCard spec to make it somewhat saner (and more desirable to end-users) is why, but I still think it smells like either (another) bungle by Tivo or cable stalling, or both.

    I can't see why CableCard would help with satellite systems, since you can make the argument that the satellite signal format is a function of competitive advantage (channels, dish sizes, etc).

    The real reason is that both Dish and DTV want their systems as incompatible as possible, as it is a barrier to migration to the competitive product.

    I do like the idea, though, of an uber-smart 'cablecard' enabled Tivo that can tune digital cable, DTV and Dish simultaenously (presumably with two, self-aiming dishes).

  31. Marketers need to learn... by CDarklock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You cannot *make* us watch your commercials, and the harder you try, the more we will hate you.

    Let's take the recent commercial for Lime Coke. They have this neat little play on Harry Nilsson's classic song "Coconut", which is amusing already, and they made a cute little vignette out of it. But once I've seen it four or five times, I'm done. I never need to see it again. If I was going to try Lime Coke, and I was, I would already have tried it -- which I did -- and decided whether I wanted to continue buying it, which I do. The sale is over. Any *further* commercials they show me for Lime Coke are a complete waste of time. And that's a commercial that SUCCEEDS.

    So when you start worrying about whether I'm going to skip your commercials and you won't get your money's worth, you need a reality check. I don't watch your commercials ANYWAY. When your commercials come on, I will either watch them -- the first couple of times -- or else I will converse with my wife, go to the bathroom, check my email, or grab a snack from the kitchen.

    I am not going to sit and watch your commercials no matter WHAT you do. The most you can do is force me to wait for what I actually *want* to be doing, during which time I will be annoyed and impatient and looking at your product's name. How do you think I'm going to feel when I see your product in a store? Why, I'll feel annoyed and impatient, of course. And that *doesn't* translate to increased sales.

    --
    Microsoft cheerleader, blue flag waving, you got a problem with that?
  32. Re:DirecTivos suck by CatOne · · Score: 2, Informative

    Right, you can't get Tivo2Go or the home media option.

    On the other hand, you can run dual tuners, which is HUGE. And you can download schedule data from teh satellite instead of having to keep the phone chord plugged in, if it's not a convenient run.

  33. Stop The Madness by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

    How many early adopters must die because of such crazyness.

    I lost an uncle in the Beta Wars.

    My dad lost his site and the use of his left arm in the Laser Disc campaigns.

    And yet, the brave are marching out again to an expensive and certain death in the HDTV campaigns.

    And meanwhile the rich get richer.

    --
    (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
  34. It is true by WindowLicker916 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm a DTV installer so I'm aware of all the changes to come. Yes you will have to get a new HDTivo, HD receivers, and possibly even new standard receivers. I am not aware though if they plan on charging people for the equipment or replacing it all for free. I'de imagine that they would replace it for free though. figuring most people would say screw that and goto a competitor for their tv needs. I for one can't wait for their new satellites to be up and running! It's going to increase work for me, and it's going to help drive down prices on HD receivers. HD receivers go for about $300-400 right now. I'de easily imagine they will drop to around $100 or even be free. DTV is going to want to make a major push on its new HD services.

  35. Re:TV? What is that? by lgw · · Score: 2

    Dangit! Here I was feeling morally superior because I use all my non-TV-watching time to drink alcohol, and you had to go and spoil it!

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  36. HD Tivo Info by adachan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I heard that the new Direct TV satellites are going to be using mpeg4 instead of mpeg2 for HD material. This seems to make sense as long as the bitrate is high enough. This will allow for more channels, however what this does is require everyone to buy a new box as far as I can tell. Without an update to decode mpeg4 the current boxes will not be able to interpret the data being transmitted to the dish.

    This is similar to a DVD player that can not read mpeg4 encoded DVDs I burn. I like to burn tv shows I record with my ATi all in wonder using divx and mp3 for video and audio. The resolution and sound are perfectly acceptable for television watching (I like A cook's tour alot) If I put these DVDs in my standard DVD player, they do not do anything. However, If I put them into a DVD player with the correct firmware which is capable of reading both the file structure and the file format then I can watch the programs I record. A standard DVD player or even recorder most likely will not understand the data and just report a disc error.

    What does this mean? I can record tv shows at about the same resolution as the original and downsample the audio to make a much smaller file. I can get many many hours (I think I am getting 6-8 at acceptable resolution on my 51 Inch HDTV) of television on one dvd in the same space that mpeg2 video with dolby digital can only get around 2 hours.

    The question that I have is what bitrate will DirectTV be sending the data? Many of the PBS channels I can recieve OTA are clearly at 1080i resolution but the bitrate is significantly reduced yeilding a somewhat pixelated looking picture. I am worried that we are going to be getting jipped on the bitrate side of things becasue people only seem to care about resolution these days. Does anyone know what the answer to this is?

  37. NON HDTV worth anything? by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Who's seriously going to buy a non-HD digital TV? The problem is that everyone is trying to get "early adopter" prices WHEN the spec comes into place... The makers want to gouge the public and the broadcasters are dragging their feet "because they can".

    We should have had digital signals 100% several years ago... the specs were designed to allow nearly 7 years of dual broadcasting overlap...but all that time has been squandered. You were supposed to be able to buy a DTV-to-analog converter for $50 years ago... the electronics is no more complicated that a $99 gamecube [without the moving parts]