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Is Obtaining a Windows Refund Still Difficult?
Bubblehead asks: "A few years ago, everybody was talking about returning their copy of Windows to receive a refund. I plan on buying a Laptop shortly, and most manufacturers still insist on shipping it with some version of Windows. I was wondering what the state of the affairs is - there isn't that much information on the net. The most prominent piece of information is this 2003 Linux Journal Report outlining how the author had to go to small claims court to receive a refund. Any experiences - especially with vendors that do not offer an alternative?"
the type of people who would want a refund for their copy of windows is the same type of people who not buy a computer from a manufacturer.
having said that, why should one have to go through all this trouble just to get a refund, i've seen an article explaining the very same procedure before, will this go on forever?
as long as the manufacturers can avoid it whenever possible, they will continue to splurt out BS over the phone as long as it's legal and gives them a slight chance that they can avoid the refund.
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
Do you value your time so little that it's worth going through the hassle?
I guess if you're extremely principled, I can see doing it.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Why would you buy a prefab machine with windows knowing that you didn't want it in the first place? If I buy a car and don't like the rims, I don't ask the manufacturer or dealer for a refund. Don't buy from that vendor. No one put a gun to your head. This is stupid.
Any experiences - especially with vendors that do not offer an alternative?"
The wording of that would lead me to belive that there are vendors that do offer an alternative. So once again...this is stupid.
It's like a car... Say you get a nice audio setup but you were going to put in your own speakers afterward, you don't go back to the dealership and demand a refund.
Just because you don't want an item that comes with a package deal, the seller has no obligation to refund you the money for what you didn't want.
It's in the package price. Packaging items together reduces cost. That's how business works.
If you're asking for extra labor, you should pay extra money.
If all their drives are pre-imaged with whatever selection OSs their inventory system can tolerate, that's good for 99.9995% of all their customers, why shouldn't the guy who wants to be different and have the work done for him pay for it?
Simple Solution: Include a bootable Linux distro with the laptop. It proves it is working, but doesn't alter it in any way. It is about as close to free as you can get (cost of a blank cd). I would, in fact, recommend trying out the laptop with your bootable distro of choice before buying it. (if you can find the model you want in a brick-n-mortar store)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Are you really entitled to a refund? Can you take apart any product and return the parts that you don't want?
the diff, of course, is that with computers that include windows, you have to agree to their license OR DEINSTALL IT. if you deinstall it, you should not have to pay for stuff you reject based on license terms.
there is no such agreement on, say, cd players in cars. if I buy a new car and don't want the cd player, rarely do I get 'credit' for removing it. that was an old old car dealer's trick that is not used much anymore. "delete the radio for credit". sorry sir, can't do that anymore.
but with windows, you DO have the option to return for a refund. it says so. they just don't honor it. false advertising, if you ask me.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
No, but you could sell that spare tire without the automobile manufacturer suing you.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
i question the objectivity of any review of an OS that minimizes the fact that the reviewer's keyboard doesn't work
Yeah, cos naming a Linux distro after a penguin was just an absurd and outlandish suggestion, wasn't it?
the layman's guide to computer science
It is functional though. As long as all the parts they sold you work. I can go to CompUSA and buy an optical mouse. It's pretty much worthless without a computer to go with it, but that doesn't mean that it's nonfunctional. My computer came with a CD burner, but no blank cd's. So I couldn't burn a CD without making another purchase, but that doesn't mean my computer was broken.
That's not a compelling reason at all.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Thanks for posting the link.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
was your comment really worth sharing? is mine? people do THINGS. perhaps he should just quit acting up and watch more t.v.?
It's amazing what /. doesn't print.
It's not what you know, it's who you know.
Yeah, running fdisk is a really expensive procedure.
I bought my laptop (A Sager 5690 - model no longer sold on their site) from http://www.discountlaptops.com/, and I couldn't be happer with it. No operating system, great value, and excellent customer service. I also paid about $1,000 less for my laptop than I would have paid if I bought it from Dell (P4 w/hyperthreading, 2GB ram, 1400x1050 LCD, over a year ago). If you don't believe me read their buyer ratings at the bottom of their web site. I actually had to return my laptop for repairs because of a faulty motherboard, and they paid for all the shipping and had my laptop back to me in a few days. The owner of the company emailed me several times before I bought the laptop and answered questions I had about it (like what ethernet chip it had), and made *objective* suggestions about which laptop I should buy. The owner also contacted me several times during my warranty work episode and I felt extremely comfortable that he was making sure that I was well taken care of by Sager. (Sager and Chembook are two of the main manufacturers that they sell on their site. These are the companies that sell to places like Alienware, Hypersonic PC, Pro-star, Voodoo PC and many others. I'm running Ubuntu Hoary on it now, and have not had any problems at all. Before this I ran Fedora Core 2 and 3 with no problems (save the faulty motherboard).
I can't recommend discountlaptops.com enough. I don't work for them or anything like that, I am just a happy, happy customer. You can bet my next laptop will be from them as well.
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Hi, I'd like a hotdog. Two bucks? Great! Hey, listen, do you have ketchup and mustard and relish and stuff? Over there? Cool. How much does it cost?
Oh, it's included in the price? Right on! Thanks!
Ok, so, but that ketchup and stuff, it must cost you something, right? I buy ketchup at Safeway and the smallest bottle they sell is a buck.
Right, yeah, cool.
Ok, so, can I have a plain hotdog, for a dollar? See, I have my own sauce, I brought it from home. It's home-made, see. I downloaded the recipe from the internet. You want some of my sauce? You can have it for free, I bet tons of your customers would love this stuff, it's great.
No? Ok, well anyway: How about that dollar-off, plain hotdog?
What? But, see, I'm not gonna use any of your ketchup. I'm leaving it in the bottle. If you give it to me anyway, I'll have to scrape it off, see... you might as well just keep it. And since ketchup costs a buck, I'll have my hotdog for a dollar off.
No. Seriously man, here's the two bucks for the hotdog. If you won't give me a buck back for not using the ketchup, would you at least figure out how much that ketchup costs per-hotdog, and then take THAT off the price? Even if it's only ten cents per hotdog, I should still get the refund 'cause I'm not using the ketchup.
Ok, yeah, I could take some ketchup and then re-sell it on ebay, but really, why would someone buy my used ten-cents worth of ketchup... it might be dirty. Plus you can't really sell open ketchup like that. I'm sure there's a regulation. Who knows what I'm selling? It might not be real ketchup. It could be filthy, full of viruses. I'm sure Heinz would not like me representing it as their product.
So, c'mon, one hotdog for a buck, or, show me your balance sheet and then we'll just take off what the ketchup really costs. At least.
Huh? OK, fine, screw you! I'm going home and making my own damn hotdog! Dammit!
I am allowed to criticize you: you are not allowed to criticize me. Sorry, that's just how things are.
Dell is probably the worst example to use, twice companies have tried to get other OSes installed on Dell machines (Apple in the early 90's with Mac OS for x86, Be in the late 90's with BeOS). I am sure going forth since the DOJ trial new Windows licenses are different but Michael Dell has gone on record stating that they have to pay for Windows whether it goes on the machine or not.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
So it's ok for them to be assholes because they only have 3.5% of the market?
Bullshit.
1%, 99%, you are either right or you are wrong. Apple is a lot more morally challenged that MS is in many ways. Just because they are an underdog does not give them the right to be the assholes that they frequently are.
This is because Microsoft will probably not show up in court to rebut your evidence of value.
I'd gladly pay $100 or so to have MS's OEM contract with Dell appear on the public record.
and got an apologetic letter too. They EULA says that if you do not agree to the license, you can return it to the retailer for a refund.
I had to take watford electronics to court (small claims), though they backed down about a week before they court appearance.
The interesting thing about their defense was it was "The EULA is not binding on us because we are a third party, the license being between microsoft and yourself".
My reply was that they purchased the OEM copy with that EULA and that it was I that had no relationship to MS. If they didn't want to be bound by the EULA then they could have put a different version of Windows on there.
I'm not sure where the meme that "free market economy == every vendor should be required by law to exactly meet my specific requirements" originated from, but it's not even *remotely* accurate.
Your experience is a textbook example of how a free market economy *should* work. Vendor A doesn't sell the product you want. You negotiate with Vendor A to provide a product that meets your requirements, a customisation they see the need to charge for. At any time (and this is the important part) you are completely free to seek other vendors who might provide products more aligned to your requirements.
Are you Billy Gates? Then yes, by all means pay somebody else to get a computer, your time may be literally valued at millions.
Are you a regular guy that would be doing something else completely unproductive otherwise? Then your time is not worth as much as you think, saving 100 bucks could be worth the hassle.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You're absolutely right! I cannot fathom why you're not getting the same prices as Michael Dell. It's just not fair!
Ridiculous punk.