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Yankee Group Slams Linux 'Extremists'

AvatarofVirgo wrote in to mention an article running on ZDNet in which the consulting firm The Yankee Group goes after folks in the Linux community who have been questioning their objectivity. From the article: "Laura DiDio, an analyst at the Yankee Group who has been at the receiving end of much of the criticism from Linux advocates, claimed the radical elements of the community could damage the reputation of open source software."

103 of 623 comments (clear)

  1. true by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She's not too far off - Everytime I see a story on Microsoft and Linux - I see the extremists belittle, spread FUD, and incorrect information. I've long maintained that if the best you can do is tell me FUD about Microsoft as a reason to switch - then there's no reason to switch.

    One of the prime examples of winnowing me away from I.E. for instance, was that someone finally sat there for a moment and told me what Firefox could do - 10/15 messages back and forth - not a word or mention of IE, and I switched.

    I'd like the same about Linux, but always get belittled for asking.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re:true by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem is that you can't have a discussion on "why is X better than Y" without mentioning that there's stuff Y cannot do. I don't understand how you can have a conversation with someone on why to switch from IE to Firefox, for example, without mentioning that there's things firefox does that IE does not.

      If one person says "X is better than Y" and someone else says "Y is bad compared to X" they are both saying the exact same thing, but they seem different on a purely emotional (read: bullshit) level. I don't subscribe to the notion that sugar-coating what you say like that actually changes anything signifigant about your message.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    2. Re:true by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Firstly, the survey comprised of asking executives questions about various issues, rather than focusing plainly on statistics. Moreover, DiDio added that companies usually did not keep track of the operating costs, and yet the study sought to equate the costs of running Windows with that of running Linux.

      And, according to the article that detailed the survey, developing applications and securing servers were the two major cost differences. DiDio highlighted Visual Studio as a boon for Windows users in developing software, while completely forgetting IDEs that exist on Linux which help development, and are far better than Visual Studio.

      To most Linux users, and those in the know, that reeks of bias. Most executives would be more familiar with Windows systems than Linux systems, because of their experience with the former. Moreover, it is highly likely that executives wouldn't have heard about Eclipse or KDevelop as much as Visual Studio, simply because of marketing reasons.

      DiDio, herself, added that Microsoft's shift to a monthly security update cycle and increased efforts to combat security issues were the main drivers behind its new ratings. Linux's security program is not trumpeted as loudly as Microsoft's "Patch Tuesday" is.

      She deserved the criticism for not pointing out these obvious flaws. Whether the "extremists" were a bit too radical is another case altogether.

    3. Re:true by Dhalka226 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And is easier to setup (for most distros) than windows from scratch

      Huh?

      I've installed, for various periods of time, a number of linux distros. Mandrake, a number of RedHats (6.something through FC2 I believe), and I currently run Gentoo. (For disclosure purposes, I also run XP on my laptop as well as a dual boot on my desktop, but I haven't been in anything but Gentoo on my desktop in ages.)

      In no case can I pick any of these systems and say they were easier to set up than Windows. Windows is a truly idiot-proof setup. If you can set the time zone, you can get it installed and humming. All of the linux distros I used had at least some sort of package selection. I'm sure at least some, if not all, had a "just do what you want" option that would have made it basically the same as windows--but certainly not easier.

      Once installed, the basics in setting things up for linux and Windows is either the same or tilted toward Windows, in my experience.

      I'm really curious how you arrived at the conclusion that linux is easier to set up than Windows.

    4. Re:true by mccalli · · Score: 5, Informative
      DiDio highlighted Visual Studio as a boon for Windows users in developing software, while completely forgetting IDEs that exist on Linux which help development, and are far better than Visual Studio...To most Linux users, and those in the know, that reeks of bias.

      Well, no. Your statement "IDEs...exist on Linux which...are far better than Visual Studio" is a subjective statement, backed up with nothing. That is a biased statement, or a partisan one if you prefer, and you would need facts and figures to back it up.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    5. Re:true by Keruo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ever tried installing windows on machine with only sata drives and no floppy drive?
      You'd probably find out that the installer dies when it cannot find your hard drive, and you can't install extra drivers since you dont have a floppy drive.
      Well you're right, you cannot set the timezone since the installer doesn't go that far so windows is no go on modern high-end machines without some slipstreaming to the cd.

      --
      There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
    6. Re:true by B'Trey · · Score: 4, Informative

      Windows is easy to setup if everything goes right. If it doesn't, you need to have some skillz or know someone who does. One example that springs quickly to mind (because I've just spent a great deal of time wrestling with it) is to try and install Windows to a SATA (Serial ATA) hard drive. Windows generally doesn't recognize SATA controllers without loading a driver, and sometimes it will load and use the driver to start the install, then fail to reload the driver on boot-up and hang. When something like that happens, Windows isn't so easy to install anymore.

      The mainstream Linux distros are pretty much the same as Windows. SuSE, Novell Desktop, Mandrake, Red Hat, etc are all as easy to install as Windows now. That wasn't true a couple of years ago. And like Windows, if things go wrong, you need to know what you're doing to get them working.

      I too run Gentoo but it's a geeks distro and isn't as easy to setup as the more mainstream distros.

      The package selection you pointed out is primarly because Linux tends to install a lot of apps along with the OS. Sure, Windows may not ask you about packages but when you're done, you don't have Office and a whole host of other software installed either. By the time you go through the install process for all of the additional software, I don't think Windows is much easier.

      I'm not going to argue that Linux is easier, but it's hardly more difficult either in the mainstream distros.

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    7. Re:true by Excelsior · · Score: 5, Insightful

      She's not too far off - Everytime I see a story on Microsoft and Linux - I see the extremists belittle, spread FUD, and incorrect information.

      The kettle called, it wants its color back. Laura Didio is the queen of OSS bashers in research analyst's clothing. Don't beleive me? Try a Google search on Laura.

      She has made a career out of bashing open source because she knows it makes her one of the most well known technology analysts around. Read a bit about this woman and the reports she writes, and then tell me you don't see a trend. Whenever a long period of time goes where you hear nothing about Laura Didio, she throws out something controversial to stir the pot.

      She's the equivalent of a troll - don't feed her.

    8. Re:true by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Insightful
      1. Laura DiDio is actually a moron. Many of the criticisms of Laura DiDio are dead on, whether or not she's being paid for her stupidity. Go look up anything she wrote or said about SCO, and see if you can keep a straight face.
      2. She's right. This is true of all extremists. There are zealots for every platform that will criticize their perceived "opposition" without cause or understanding. There are Linux & Firefox zealots, Mac & Windows zealots, GameCube/PS2/XBox zealots, and some of them spew continuous bullshit.
        "Is that a Mac?"

        "Yeah."

        "Hehe. Too bad you can't do anything with it."

        "What? Are you brain damaged?"
      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    9. Re:true by Poltras · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Doesn't the same goes for linux if you don't have the drivers? I've tried to install some linux distros on my old workstation (with some "special" hardware I must admit), and finally got a FreeBSD running, windows installing problem free, and no linux could make me satisfied (either hanging up at boot time or needing some spicy driver installing kernel hacking that I didn't want to do).

      When I want a workstation that works as soon as I can, I use Windows. Sure it's not 100% installation bullet-proof, but sometimes 99.9% is, well, close enough.

    10. Re:true by Omnifarious · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, both are biased statements. Failing to mention that any IDEs exist on Linux is clearly biased. And calling the IDEs on Linux superior without anything to back it up is also clearly biased.

      Personally, I've heard good things about Eclipse, but I really despise Java, and I've never really liked IDEs either. So, both of those opinions have prevented me from trying Eclipse myself.

    11. Re:true by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      IDEs which I mentioned have extensibility with well-documented APIs, support numerous languages and platforms and are a lot cheaper.

      Perhaps Eclipse is not as good as Visual Studio for Microsoft technologies, but overall, it is better.

    12. Re:true by Nahor · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Bear in mind that the Visual Studio team at Microsoft includes many of their best and brightest with a multi-million dollar budget. You will forgive me if I am skeptical that any freely available tools could be better.
      The same company is behind Windows which has bigger multi-million dollar budget yet the freely available Linux is at least as good as Windows. So you will forgive me if I am skeptical about your comment ;)
    13. Re:true by unoengborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We all define simple in different ways. It is true that you sometimes need to select some packages when you install Linux.

      In Linux you usually do these selections by clicking a few checkboxes and klick the continu button a few times and you are ready.

      In windows you do it by visiting an online store paying a couple of hundred or dollars or more. Worry that your credit card info will be missused,
      Then you wait just for FedEx to deliver a package. You open it to find the CDs insert them into your computer and click OK a couple of times. Then you call Microsoft or whatever software vender you bought the package from to get activation codes. Then are all set to go.

      If you want another package just repeat the procedure. Could it be more simple?

      --
      God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
    14. Re:true by Taladar · · Score: 2, Informative

      With Windows you can have the drivers on HDD or CD or DVD or on a server in your network and it won't help you anything because it insists on getting them from a floppy. With Linux you can boot from almost every device and have a fully functional system to get the drivers to this system in a large variety of ways and load them into your running kernel.

    15. Re:true by CatOne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, if you take the 3 1/2 year old Windows XP CD, that was released before SATA drives existed, then this is a problem. There are later CDs these days -- if you go down to the store and buy one it's likely revved to SP2, which would alleviate the problem.

      Linux is okay to set up if you stick in the CD and let it format and go. I've found it a BEAR to add new hardware though -- I installed a fibre channel RAID device, and it always takes me about an hour to figure out how to get the device info out of /dev/sca and /dev/scb and map them and put file systems on them. Where in Windows (or OS X) they just show up and you format them in the disk utility. Ass-backward IMO.

    16. Re:true by Queer+Boy · · Score: 2, Informative
      Well, no. Your statement "IDEs...exist on Linux which...are far better than Visual Studio" is a subjective statement, backed up with nothing. That is a biased statement, or a partisan one if you prefer, and you would need facts and figures to back it up.

      Well, exactly since unless you can develop for the other with each it doesn't really matter anyway. Xcode is extraordinary (and it's included with every $129 purchase of Mac OS X) but you can only develop for Mac and Java, so it ain't that useful for Linux and Windows developers (unless you want to develop Java).

      --
      Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
    17. Re:true by NitsujTPU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I absolutely agree.

      The problem isn't the reality of the matter. The problem is multifold:

      1) People who advocate Linux, who share ill-informed opinions.
      2) People who advocate Linux, who would advocate it if it was buggy and useless.
      3) People who merely want to strike at Microsoft, and use Linux as an engine to do so.
      4) People who advocate Linux, because it's cool to advocate Linux.

      All this does is stiffle the voices of people who actually have a point. If you want to advocate Linux, the best way to do so is:
      1) Present concrete, real reasons that Linux does X better than Y.
      2) If you're going to attack Windows, do it on solid footing. Here's an example of where the Slashdot community did not do this.
      I read an article on this site regarding Windows Cluster Edition. Many, many people posted saying that they would never run a cluster of Windows boxes, why would you do this, Windows isn't mature enough. In reality, Windows Cluster Edition did many things right. I know this based on conversations with people directly involved with the project and people who run a large Windows cluster.
      3) Don't cling to ideals that don't resonate with your audience. If they don't mind paying for software, saying that Linux is gratis won't do much.
      4) Don't cling to Open Source as the cure for cancer. Having 1000's of people read your code doesn't necessarily make it any better. Commercial products go through test phases and Quality Assurance. If this is the core of your argument, your audience won't listen.

      Essentially, it's simple. If you preach to the choir, you're not going to convert anyone. You have to talk on their ground. People who run Linux already agree with you.

      (For reference, I run a dual boot system)

    18. Re:true by bit01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see the extremists belittle, spread FUD, and incorrect information.

      That's true, microsoft.com is getting really bad. Their Get The Facts site is particularly extreme. According to them Linux is never the correct choice. ;-)

      Remember, somebody needs to balance out the M$ marketing fanatics.

      ---

      Commercial software bigots - a dying breed.

    19. Re:true by tokabola · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I found Mandrake to be much easier than Windows. With Windows (XP Pro) the basic install was simple, if lengthy, just fill out a little user info, password, timezone and stuff. But then I had to mess with getting it to recognize the broadband connection, visit Windows Update about a dozen times (rebooting after eaach visit) download and install newer versions of all the hardware drivers (rebooting after each), install a security suite (Norton AV, Zone Alarm, Spybot, Adaware, Finjan's Surfin Guard Pro (which catches all the crap the others don't)), and of course a few pieces of software like Flashget (download utility), Textpad (a notepad replacement with syntax highlighting for many languages including C/C++, python, html,XML, Renderman Interface Bytestream and shader language, etc), Mozilla, Open Office, and a couple others. Total time = 6 1/2 hours.

      Compare that to the last time I installed Mandrake (10.0). The install was easy, answer a few questions about the user, passwords, timezone, and select the type of computer (desktop, workstation, or server). Mandrake picked up on the broadband during the install and updated itself DURING the install. Drivers are built in (as kernel modules). Reboot ONCE. Done (with compareable software already installed. Total time = 38 minutes.

      Pretty obvious to me which wins.

      Now I run Gentoo - Total install = 4 days, but that's another story altogether ;)

      Tommy

      --
      Open Source for Open Minds
    20. Re:true by Rohan427 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are comparing an OS (Windows) with a complete system (a Linux distribution). There is a HUGE difference between the two. Now if we are going to make this comparison, then we'll do it fairly.

      For some background, I have been an administrator and developer for Windows, Linux, Unix, VMS, and some systems most haven't ever even heard of. I've also had numerous network security contracts involving both audits forensics, as well as the task of securing some prominent government and commercial networks.I run both Windows 2000 and Linux on my network currently, and am working full time as a software engineer. I have performed independent research into Linux/Windows TCO with references to both pro-Linux and pro-Windows comparisons. This research had two different goals: convince a CEO why a company should switch from Linux to Windows, and why a company should switch from Windows to Linux.

      Now, let's do a short comparison of RHEL WS (Red Hat Enterprise Linux Workstation Version 3) and Windows 2000. We'll call both of these a "distribution" for our comparison and I'll refer to RHEL WS as simply Linux and Windows 2000 as W2K for brevity. We won't look at the initial price for either distro as anyone can look these up. First in the comparison, Linux.

      Linux comes with a boatload of applications - multiple office suites, project management, multi-media tools, many games, graphics applications, utilities, more than a couple mail transport agents, multiple desktop environments, web servers, multiple web browsers, multiple file servers, etc. - a list long enough to take a couple CDs. A typical user can avoid the package selection by selecting one of the pre-defined options at install. Do so will format the drive, install all software for that configuration, provide dialogs for selecting networking options (in the case of a networked system), timezone, etc. Linux comes with the source code, another couple CDs.

      Linux includes the option to select specific applications, environment, source code, etc. (the package selection you complain about). This is considered an advanced installation and 99% of the users out there would never select this option. Selecting a basic workstation install is simple, quick, and is performed in roughly half the time of W2K. Linux can be installed as a single user workstation or a complete server (web, file, application, mail, database, etc.).

      Linux includes no anti-virus, anti-spyware, or anti-adware software nor does it (to date) need it. The basic UNIX security model does not make it necessary (but that's another long discussion). Linux does not require a per-user license. It does not require a license for every computer it's installed on, unless you want support from Red Hat for every computer (then you're paying for the support, NOT Linux).

      Linux comes with development tools for various compiled and interpreted languages. It comes with the compilers and interpreters for those same languages. It comes with a couple of IDEs, a debugger, and various utilities for code development. All total, there are some 13 CDs for Linux (I haven't actually counted them, but I have a nice stack for each of RHEL WS and RHEL ES). That basically sums up Linux, so now how does W2K measure up?

      W2K comes with a browser, some text editors, a few little games, a terminal program, a single mail program, and a few other minor things. It all fits on a single CD. It can only be installed as a workstation and not as a server. It has no anti-virus, anti-spyware, or anti-adware software, but it requires it. W2k has limited "package" selection because there's few packages to select. It takes far longer to format the hard drive, and has only two real installation options: default and individual package selection.

      W2k has a single environment, no compilers, no IDEs, no servers, no source code. It has a very simple graphics application, not many utilities. If a user wants to add all the equivalent applications to make it on par with Linux, then the user must purc

    21. Re:true by spuzzzzzzz · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you use udev, the naming system is entirely up to you. You can even create symbolic links based on the Vendor/Product ID so that your mp3 player will always show up as /dev/mp3 and your thumb drive will be /dev/thumb no matter where you plug them in.

      For example, Gentoo's default udev naming scheme puts my CDRW in (at least) 3 places: /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd, /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 and /dev/hdc. I don't think gentoo does a similar thing for SCSI by default, but there is no reason why you couldn't.

      --

      Don't you hate meta-sigs?
    22. Re:true by ltbarcly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Windows is easy to setup if everything goes right.

      This is a fucking tautology. What, is Linux easy to set up when shit goes terribly wrong?

      I too run Gentoo but it's a geeks distro and isn't as easy to setup as the more mainstream distros.

      Have you heard of Debian? It is about as hard to set up as Gentoo, although it is more consistant in how it does things.

      Of course, by "mainstream" you mean "red hat, suse, mandrake", so I'll give this one to you. Those distro's are much easier as long as you just want to use default setup, don't want to upgrade the kernel/software, and don't mind reinstalling for every release. Oh, and you should probably not expect software that isn't bundled on the CD to integrate properly with the packaging system. So by "easy" you mean "easy to get it to boot and show a pretty KDE desktop without knowing a damn thing" and not "easy to accomplish something".

      The package selection you pointed out is primarly because Linux tends to install a lot of apps along with the OS.

      What do you think Linux is? Is BASH part of linux? What about libc? What is an app? Is open office an app? What about mount?

      I'm not going to argue that Linux is easier, but it's hardly more difficult either in the mainstream distros.

      Bull. Find your aunt. Install windows on one computer, and install Linux on another, any distro.

      Now have her install Realplayer so she can listen to NPR while she knits sweaters. Oh, it seems that there isn't an RPM for your version/distro. Looks like a command line install. So, aunty, just do a chmod +x RealPlayer34-322.bin and then type ./RealPlayer34-322.bin, and then install it in your home folder. No, in the terminal. Or maybe the console. Oh, click on the box that looks like a black box with a white bit of text in it. Ahh, finally installed.

      Oh, you wanted an icon to click on? Ok, we can do this. Just .. Oh, wait. Gnome doesn't have a menu-editor that works yet. Hmm.... Well, just press alt-F2 and then type RealPlayer... no, capital R and capital P...Oh, you have to put it in your path... Hmm, the sound doesn't work? oh, kill the KDE sound server, ALSA doesn't do the software mixing that 90% of AC97 sound cards use, so you can only play from one program at once, and that program might not release it properly, so you have to do fuser /dev/dsp, then kill the process of the program that it returns. Hmm, it still isn't working? Ok, just make sure the kernel module is loaded for your soundcard... ... ...And Aunt Oldy never touches her computer again.

      Or windows: go to realplayer website. click download. double click the realplayer icon that magically appears. Wait, this isn't the program!? Oh, it just wants me to keep clicking next for like 30 times. Let's see, oh, here we go, click on the link on the website and it loads the program and starts playing it. It works! Back to knitting socks!

      Now, of course the fact that her computer is on a zombie network is more bothersome than not getting RealPlayer to work, but getting her to care is more difficult. Linux isn't remotely there as a desktop except for geeks who love to hack around on it. For these people it is fantastic. For everyone else, make them, force them, cajole them, beat them into buying a Mac.

  2. She should know. by gnuadam · · Score: 3, Interesting

    She's a prime example of how pro microsoft extremism in the course of her job has decimated her credibility. Her. O'Gara ( for SCO). Enderle. No one believes them any more.

    Learn your lessons well.

    --
    You say :wq, I say ZZ. Why can't we all just get along?
    1. Re:She should know. by gnuadam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not zealous nonesense. By any standard she's a shill.

      I'm not defending the people who call her didiot, or call to harass her. They're idiots, no question. But she's far from innocent on the zealot scale, and I thought I'd take the opportunity to point that out.

      --
      You say :wq, I say ZZ. Why can't we all just get along?
  3. Damn Yanks! by warriorpostman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't "Yankee" a derogatory term for American colonists whose political views were considered part of the "extremist fringe"???

  4. From TFA.. by Mr.+Flibble · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's an extremist fringe of Linux loonies who hang out on forums and are disrespectful and threatening because you disagree with them...That can hurt the Linux community.

    On SLashdot?

    Say it aint so!

    --
    Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
    1. Re:From TFA.. by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's funny is that anybody who disagrees with them is labeled an 'MS fan-boy'. Hypocrites.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:From TFA.. by freeweed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's funnier is the continual stream of posts claiming a single borg-like hivemind on Slashdot, that punishes you if you dare to say anything the slightest bit negative about Linux...

      Continually modded up.

      Yeah.

      Hypocrites. Every last one of us.

      If you want to turn this into a black/white Windows/Linux issue (which it most certainly is not), I daresay there are more pro-Microsoft posts on this site these days than otherwise, which makes me think there are more pro-Windows folks here than not. However, a goodly lot seem to be compelled to end their posts with "now this will just get modded down due to Slashbot hypocrite groupthink".

      Guess what, Checkers? That sort of 12-year old boy prattling deserves modding down, because it's just pure flamebait.

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
  5. As opposed to being bought out opinionistas? by tquinlan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd rather people be excited about something they believe in (ie, Linux), rather than just another Microsoft-funded puppet.

    --
    DBA? Software Engineer? My company is hiring! Click
    1. Re:As opposed to being bought out opinionistas? by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some free insight for you: There are people that can't understand how something exists, if it isn't manufactured from the ground up to be bought and sold. Linux doesn't fit that mold, not in its entirety, and therein lies the problem, for them.

      I mean, really. If we get the job done, why not act like hippies, if that's what we feel like? Does it change anything about the product? Is Hippy Linux somehow inferior to CorpDrone Linux, supposing all the underlying code is the same? It's a dangerous idea, this concept of being able to not be a serf, and still being competent to make what society needs.

    2. Re:As opposed to being bought out opinionistas? by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it's not much better when your opinion has become fueled by myopia and precious little else

      I'd suggest you do a bit of research before assuming that people who don't like DiDio don't like her because of "myopia and precious little else". She's no "Sammy the Bull", but she HAS fairly earned her reputation for being Microsoft's loyal enforcer.

  6. Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by Kethinov · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reputation of GNU/Linux advocates suffers because the concept of all software being free is too hard for many of today's computer users to grasp. A lot of businesses make their money by hiring developers and selling software. This is a business model many of us would like to see die.

    The big FUD statement we always hear is how is FOSS profitable if it's all being done for free? I always cite the Linux kernel itself as a model for the future; most of the people working on the kernel are paid developers. Companies like IBM sponser FOSS development. If every company which needs software to use worked in the same manner, the world would be perfect.

    There are simply too many people who can't shake the idea that software is a "product" to be bought and sold. I've seen some pretty nasty things said to FOSS advocates. I've even seen some of the conservative opposition refer to FOSS as "Communism" and "Anti-American". Facing blatant ignorance and bigotry every day, it's no wonder that *nix people can seem condescending at times.

    --
    You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
    1. Re:Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by Timesprout · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If every company which needs software to use worked in the same manner, the world would be perfect

      A classic example of that they are are talking about. Do you not think such a narrow perspective puts people off, or are war, disease, disaster and famine all ok because the world is perfect so long as software is free.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by CoolMoDee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot of businesses make their money by hiring developers and selling software. This is a business model many of us would like to see die.

      I dunno, I kind of like the idea of getting paid to do what I love. I would love if everything were FOSS, but chances of that happening are slim to none. The only thing we have a *real* chance at is open standards, where hopefully the opensource client will be the best.

      --
      Jisho - A Japanese English German Russian French Dictionary for the rest of us.
    3. Re:Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Companies like IBM sponser FOSS development.

      Companies like IBM sells hardware. If making Linux available for their servers makes it easier for them to sell them, then yes, I can see them adding to the Linux kernel. To apply this in a broader sense, only hardware companies would be able to support software.

      I've seen the claim that FOSS developers can make money by selling support for their software. That's kind of backwards as then there is no incentive to make their software easy to use or install, and actually creates a disincentive because that means hard to use software generates more support money.

    4. Re:Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of businesses make their money by hiring developers and selling software. This is a business model many of us would like to see die.

      Reminds me of a sig I've seen here; "Information wants to be free. Mortgage wants to be paid."

      Why do you want to see pay-for software die out? Why should the creation of software be any different to the creation of any other work? Or do you believe that *all* works (music, books, etc) should be free, with the creators supported either by other jobs or - for the lucky few - rich sponsors?

    5. Re:Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's kind of backwards as then there is no incentive to make their software easy to use or install, and actually creates a disincentive because that means hard to use software generates more support money.

      sendmail

    6. Re:Reputation of GNU/Linux Advocates by horza · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Companies like IBM sells hardware. If making Linux available for their servers makes it easier for them to sell them, then yes, I can see them adding to the Linux kernel. To apply this in a broader sense, only hardware companies would be able to support software.

      IBM makes its money from services, not hardware. Interesting take here. The fact is that for most businesses, maintaining their own kernel, or web server, or mail server, won't give them a competative advantage over the competition but more cost. Using and contributing to a FOSS project and paying someone to glue it to their business makes more sense.

      I've seen the claim that FOSS developers can make money by selling support for their software. That's kind of backwards as then there is no incentive to make their software easy to use or install, and actually creates a disincentive because that means hard to use software generates more support money.

      That's ridiculous. Ease of use has nothing to do with the amount of work it takes to customise a FOSS project for a customer. No software house wants to make support money from taking installation support calls either, it's more of a drain on resources than a profit-maker. I think you have an odd idea of 'support'.

      Basic support is:
      * measuring the system needed to fulfill requirements and installing the software
      * correctly configuring the software for a business
      * training how to administer the software
      * fixing the system when the user screws up

      This is built into the sticker price in off-the-shelf non-FOSS software. For specialist software you pay the sticker price AND for a support contract that does the above.

      Real money in support is:
      * developing custom modules
      * interfacing the FOSS to corporate intranets or CRM software
      * creating an integrated business system tying together a number of different FOSS projects
      * data-mining the logs for ever more targetted stats and analysis

      There are others. Every company I work with has more ideas for extras than they'd ever have time or money.

      Phillip.

  7. The worst bit by jb.hl.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here on Slashdot, every time some mention of new commercial software being released for Linux hits the front page, the zealots start up whining that, in true RMS style, it's "not free enough". Even if it's being given away as freeware.

    Which is the problem, since it's "not free enough", the zealots simply dismiss it, and lets face it, the zealots are the ones helping spread Linux usage. It's stupid and it needs to stop.

    --
    By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    1. Re:The worst bit by The+Amazing+Fish+Boy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which is the problem, since it's "not free enough", the zealots simply dismiss it, and lets face it, the zealots are the ones helping spread Linux usage. It's stupid and it needs to stop.

      Maybe "zealots" don't want to help spread software that doesn't meet their criteria for good software (i.e. "isn't free enough").

    2. Re:The worst bit by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, because we all know that the best metric for software isn't support, quality, price (or a ratio of the previous)...

      It's bullshit political ideology, of course!

    3. Re:The worst bit by nmos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is the problem, since it's "not free enough", the zealots simply dismiss it, and lets face it, the zealots are the ones helping spread Linux usage. It's stupid and it needs to stop.

      For some of us the freedom is the goal and Linux is just a tool to help get there. What's annoying is that people who come into this community to get away from the lock in, disrespectfull treatment by software vendors, restrictive licensing etc. and the first thing they want to do is convince everyone to submit to the same crap over here. It's a bit like someone who moves into the countryside to get away from the city and the first thing they want is to put up street lights and mini-malls.

    4. Re:The worst bit by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Here on Slashdot, every time some mention of new commercial software being released for Linux hits the front page, the zealots start up whining that, in true RMS style, it's "not free enough". Even if it's being given away as freeware.

      And, frankly, they have a point. Software freedom is an issue that occasionally gets burried by pricetags and flash. The fact that you mention "freeware" only demonstrates the point.
      Which is the problem, since it's "not free enough", the zealots simply dismiss it, and lets face it, the zealots are the ones helping spread Linux usage. It's stupid and it needs to stop.

      The last couple of times I saw some commercial software being announced for Linux and dismissed by "zealots" was products that were too little, too late. Software is a rough market. Your product has to compete - being available alone doesn't get you much (although apparently some think otherwise).

      In my own consideration... if something isn't FOSS, it's already competing at a disadvantage. But there is proprietary software that manages to get my dollar vote none the less.
  8. OK, every large group has assholes in it by winkydink · · Score: 2, Informative

    she's pissed off because they call her DiDiot and her last name is DiDio? A 3rd grade schoolyard taunt gets to her? She complaing because she gets phone calls at 11pm. She lives in the public eye (whether she likes it or not, that's where she is) and her phone number is listed?

    Tell me about death threats or stalkers and I'd say you've got extremists. Tell me about name-callers and heavy-breathers and I'd say you've got the nuisance equivalent of script kiddies.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  9. While we're at it... by inode_buddha · · Score: 4, Insightful
    As long as we're all worried about extremists damaging reputations, lets have another look at the hard right, the hard left, the mass media, the MS extremists, the Mac fans, Martin Luther, the Pope, etc. etc.....

    My point being, that the analysts damage whatever they're paid to damage nowdays, if you've been following things at all lately.

    --
    C|N>K
  10. "I don't take money from any vendor" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm going to post this anonymously because of my job (at least I hope this "Post Anonymously" function works!)

    This statement was dismissed too quickly by Ziff-Davis:
    Some of DiDio's critics have claimed that Yankee Group's surveys comparing the total cost of ownership of Linux and Windows have been funded by Microsoft. DiDio strongly denies this claim.

    "I don't take any money from any vendor," said DiDio. "Yankee Group paid entirely for the survey. We use an independent survey house."

    The fact is that major analyst firms earn their revenue in two ways:

    1. Selling reports and consulting services to customers (IT businesses in this example) that describe the market, the vendors, and who's doing what.
    2. Selling consulting services back to the vendors to help them position their product for various markets.

    It's tough for the analyst firms to remain objective because sometimes they make more money from the latter business than the former. And in that case, the vendor can exhibit tremendous pressure to make sure that no negative remarks are made about their products or even steer analyst reports in the direction they would like.

    (Investment firms had a similar problem until recent regulations required them to maintain a split between the side that provide investment advice and the side that does IPOs for firms).

    Does this mean that Microsoft has paid Yankee Group enough money that they are saying negative things about Linux? Not necessarily. But it does call into question DiDio's statement, "I don't take any money from any vendor." I've seen at least one top-tier analyst firm (though not Yankee specifically to my recollection) who reported favorable market results for firms that paid a lot for their consulting services. And Microsoft has been known for exerting some pressure on companies it works with.

    Any time you have an entity expected to be "objective" but who's existance depends on the largess of the firms it is supposed to be objective about, you must be wary of these conflicts of interest.

    Just like how it's dubious to suggest the mainstream media is going to seriously bite the hand of the Republicans that feed it (read as, interviews, embedded reporters during war, or bigger media-consolidation regulation), the industry analyst firms can be just as susceptible to strong-arm tactics of vendors.
  11. If you wern't for sale... by bgog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I couldn't care less if they disagree with me I simply take issue with the fact that they are for-sale and claim to be objective.

    They are high-tech hookers, for-sale to the highest bidder. Their opinions/results have no meaning under such circumstances.

    Get a little professional integrity and you'll get the respect you seek.

    1. Re:If you wern't for sale... by bgog · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhhh. Ok. There is a large difference between posting a comment on an entertainment message board and publishing a professional opionion.

      Professional integrity applies to ones profession. My profession is not to post on slashdot, her profession is to publish objective opinions on technology. First she participated in research funded by one of the vendors and second she publicly whined about her critics again via her professional identity.

    2. Re:If you wern't for sale... by killjoe · · Score: 2, Funny

      Laura DiDio is pissed because anytime she publishes a study telling the world how creamy and delicious MS products are and how open source products make the baby jesus cry the community immediately calls her on her bullshit, makes fun of her, and tells the world of all the other bullshit she has spewed in the past.

      I would be pissed too.

      Here is the problem though. Our megaphone seems to be louder then hers. Maybe, just maybe our voices are being heard louder then hers in the corporate halls. If this is true she will soon be out of a job as MS tries to find other means to get their message across to CIOs.

      I would be pissed too.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    3. Re:If you wern't for sale... by bgog · · Score: 2, Informative
      "creamy and delicious MS products are"
      and
      "how open source products make the baby jesus cry"


      HaHa! I almost fell out of my chair laughing. I had to forward your post to some co-workers :) Ha
  12. This reminds me of PETA by John+Seminal · · Score: 5, Interesting
    PETA- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

    Sounds like a nice group, I want animals to be happy too. Then one day they came around a KFC in my neighborhood and members yelled at families going in for dinner, calling them murderers and supporting animal concentration camps. They had a bucket of fake blood they threw on someone. Instantly, nobody gave a damn about their group. More importantly, people would support the opposite side just because they hate PETA.

    Same think could happen with Linux. What got me interested in Linux was friendly people who really liked it, and wanted to share what they knew about it. What turns me off, I went to a Linux group meeting and had a dual boot machine, Windows 2000 and Debian. Someone gave me shit for having Windows on the laptop. Another dork, and I use the word dork because I think nerd is too nice; anyways, another dork starts laughing and saying how Windows sucks and how easy it is to hack into. I had my machine hooked up to the LAN, and these idiots decided they wanted to try and hack my machine. They even asked me to "ipconfig" and tell them my exact IP address. They thought I was an idiot. After 5 minutes I left. Fuck them.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    1. Re:This reminds me of PETA by [cx] · · Score: 2, Insightful

      PETA Should be put on hold until we can actually take care of humans, the other species are not as important.

  13. Help me understand something. by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful
    One of the prime examples of winnowing me away from I.E. for instance, was that someone finally sat there for a moment and told me what Firefox could do - 10/15 messages back and forth - not a word or mention of IE, and I switched.
    Why would it be someone else's responsibility to "winnow" you away from IE?

    Firefox is Free (as speech, as beer).
    I've long maintained that if the best you can do is tell me FUD about Microsoft as a reason to switch - then there's no reason to switch.
    Do you apply that same logic to Microsoft?

    If Microsoft publishes some FUD, do you immediately switch to an alternative?
  14. Why waste time bashing Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... and harassing this poor analyst instead of spending your time making Linux better?

    Note how earlier today, the story on Microsoft creating software for police to crack down on child pornography was greeted on slashdot with paranoia and conspiracy theory. How it is purely a move by Microsoft to do marketing. It doesn't matter what Microsoft does, it's always a conspiracy with you guys.

    How about Mono? Mono is an amazing piece of OSS. But because it was based on something Microsoft did, it's considered a fringe element in the OSS world by the linux guys. You can read about what Miguel thinks of pleasing the Microsoft haters in a recent interview -- he basically draws a bell curve... and that pleasing the hatas on the fringe isn't worth his time.

    I agree with the Yankee Group and will add a point: Just quit with the bashing and make Linux more accessible to the masses instead of posting on slashdot claims of how much better it is.

    1. Re:Why waste time bashing Microsoft... by ncb000gt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While i think you are slightly missguided in that MS should be bashed from time to time, it helps to regulate and keep things in check, i think you have an elemnt of truth to your statement.

      I am a linux user and I love linux, in fact i recommend it to everyone i know. Why? Because it is better but the first question always asked is. Can i learn it fast and is it easy to use. Last night i saw a live comedian. He was talking about computers and and one of his jokes was directed at the software developers that try to do TOO MUCH but expect the user to be able to pick up. he just wanted to point and click

      IF (keyword) we want to increase the number of linux users then we need to develop better software for usability that isn't nearly as clunky as gnome. Also, the driver situation needs to get better, that heavily relates to the HW manuf. but still it needs to be better. Things should happen easier.

      Now i read a long time ago about how the linux power users dont want the windows users to come over. The tradeoff would be too many questions related to how do i...This happens anyways with new users switching over but imagine a person coming from windows...Where is my "My Documents" folder? Multiply that by even just 25% of the Windows user base that doesn't have a clue about the linux structure and you get an insane amount of BS repetitive questions. It becomes a hassle.

      My point is that if we want to increase the user base for Desktops then we need to do some massive programming for it. If we want to increase the server side then we need some MASSIVE marketing schemes that don't attack MS directly but state exactly what it is that linux can do to fulfill the needs of the people buying it. IBM has some great ads a few years ago detailing some things that could work. There is expense in it but there needs to be some important pressure in the marketing to make those execs forget about that expense or show them that it's less than running M$ Windows Server 2003...
      If we dont want to increase the user base then lets just make it work for what we want and need so that it's cool as hell...who cares about if it's complex, we all know what we are doing...screw the rest right!? :)

      JMNSHO

      - nc

  15. Executive Survey??? by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 2, Informative
    Yankee Group surveyed executives at over 500 companies, asking them questions on factors that influence TCO such as deployment costs, the cost of downtime, and the time and staff associated with security attacks.[emphasis added]

    Maybe if Yankee Group asked the people doing the work and not the PHB's (who usually admit to not understanding the technology anyway), they would have gotten different answers. Perhaps its the frustration of the professionals who see their work summarized by higher-ups who don't understand it that is leading to such harsh criticism? DiDiot's pretty funny, too.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
  16. Dead on by Apreche · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This lady is absolutely right. There are crazy zealots out there who hurt Linux while trying to help it. These nutcases are usually the types who have no social skills, no friends and no lives. It's very frustrating for them to know they are, and be, technically correct (Linux IS a better operating system from a CS standpoint) however at the same time have people not listen to them because they present themselves at nutcase shitheads.

    It reminds me of the other day in the subway when this crazy old guy was yelling about the trains running on different lines. He was actually correct, but nobody listened to him because he was a crazy old guy.

    If we could somehow shut up these zealots and let only the presentable and friendly members of the Linux community do the talking we would be much further along. But I guess that's not the way its going to be.

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
  17. Here is the way I see it by decep · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Generally, when Linux is used, it is because someone wants to use it. This immediately puts people on the defensive when criticized about their decision. When Windows is used, it is usually because someone has to use it or does not care.

    In many ways, this makes their zealotry a simple defense mechanism which will cause them to become unrealistic and unobjective for no reason other than they see criticism of Linux as an attack on themselves.

  18. Defining the terms of the debate. by dominion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of the most important parts of any propaganda war is the concept of defining the terms of the debate. Usually, if you can define the terms of the debate, you win the debate. This is why the neo-conservatives are so good at winning propaganda wars, despite their positions and politics being so sketchy.

    Here's an example: Politician A says, "My opponent supported a bill that would increase the number of kill shelters in their district. Therefore, my opponent supports the killing of puppies." Then, an asshole blowhard radio DJ who's probably in the pocket of said politician (although you can't prove it) gets on the air waves and screams "Politician B enjoys killing little puppies! His party is the cult of puppy death!" over and over again.

    Politican B spends a good chunk of time refuting this charge, saying no, he doesn't actually support the killing of puppies, that he's very pro-puppy actually. But nobody cares, the debate has been framed, and in such a way that Politican B was destined to lose, unless his strategists are god damn geniuses at getting out of this predicament.

    One of the ways to keep this from happening is to not allow your opposition to frame the debate. When they do, don't fall into their traps. When Pro-MS people go crazy saying "The Zealots! The Zealots Are Killing Linux! You Will All Die At The Hands Of The Zealots!" don't play their game and argue as though this were an actual issue in the movement, because it isn't.

    I see a lot of people here falling into this trap, and saying 'Yes, they have a point, some people are too pro-free software.' This allows the opposition to frame the debate, and it takes a lot to undo the damage that it does.

    As much as sections of the free software movement disagree with each other, it's important that we have unity, because exploiting these disagreements is part of the strategy of framing the debate. Basic divide and conquer. We'll be attacked for the elements among us who are less compromising in their belief in free software, because this is seen as a weakness among us. Not those people or views specifically, but the disagreement between the different factions.

    So, all I'm saying is, before you post a big rant about how big of a problem these RMS types are, recognize that your words will be used against all of us.

    1. Re:Defining the terms of the debate. by Rudisaurus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK, but the real question is: how do you keep the opposition from framing the debate?

      If the trap is set and we respond in a quiet and reasoned fashion, we're going to lose the battle -- as you've pointed out.

      And if we don't respond at all, the trap still springs, the opposition strategy still works. So how do you propose to keep the trap from being set in the first place?

      --
      licet differant, aequabitur
    2. Re:Defining the terms of the debate. by Nasarius · · Score: 2, Insightful
      OK, but the real question is: how do you keep the opposition from framing the debate? If the trap is set and we respond in a quiet and reasoned fashion, we're going to lose the battle -- as you've pointed out. And if we don't respond at all, the trap still springs, the opposition strategy still works. So how do you propose to keep the trap from being set in the first place?

      The person who can answer this question properly can make millions as a Democratic campaign advisor. There are a couple possible strategies that might be worth trying:

      1. Brutal honesty. Your opponent is talking crap, so call them on it. Speak the truth in a clear, consistent fashion. Act offended; you should be. Speak out against mudslinging in politics and maintain the moral high ground.

      2. Launch your own vicious attacks. Let's face it, the Democrats really suck at doing this convincingly.

      Yes, responding in a quiet, reasonable fashion simply doesn't work, especially when you too are ignorant of the facts (the Daily Howler has pointed out a number of instances where Democratic spokesmen gave laughably weak responses to attacks).

      Finally, there's the long-term option of working to change society so it doesn't tolerate this kind of crap. Start teaching critical thinking in high school. Make something like The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan required reading for any teacher.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
  19. our extremists are better then your extremists by mr.dreadful · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Trying being a Mac user... Every time someone in the mainstream press critizes apple, they get tons of hate mail saying what a boob they are for not automatically bowing before the magnificance that is Apple.

    I'm a huge OS X fan, and its done my heart good to see more and more acceptence of OS X at the enterprise level, but problems still exist, and until they are worked out, I wish the extremists would just shut up.

    Chad Dickerson writes a column for InfoWorld, and a few weeks back he mentioned some issues he has with OS X. He had the nerve to mention that perhaps OS X wasn't meant for everyone and got a firestorm of hate mail. His blog offers more detail:

    http://weblog.infoworld.com/dickerson/001225.html

  20. A consequence of the strengths. by flaming-opus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because linux is free (in some part speech, but in this case mostly beer is relevant) it's been able to develop a huge following of users and supporters. Any time a group of any sort gets that large, you end up with a more perceptible concentration of idiots.

    To quote Twain: "The pitifulest thing out is a mob." The democratic nature of OSS development gives strength (in terms of control) to anyone who wants it, but you have to work for it. Anyone can contribute to the linux kernel, but only a couple thousand do. It takes a lot of work, and it's not an easy way to earn respect.

    Criticism, on the other hand, is easy. It doesn't take to much effort to tare someone down. Especially if you do it in an internet forum where you don't even need to look them in the eye.

    The only silly thing about the article is that these groups are somehow surprised that the internet is mostly full of idiots, and that the people with enough time to flame research groups are teenagers. You'd think they'd have done their research... well, we won't get into that.

    1. Re:A consequence of the strengths. by I_redwolf · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, Criticism is a valid form of response. In opensource you will be criticized, and usually harshly. Developers, Users, etc all put up with it. Read the mailing list on a random opensource project and you'll see it.

      Constructive criticism is good, it's what produces quality in opensource. It's what keeps it viable and useful. Useless criticism is just that, useless. It provides nothing and should not affect the one on the receiving end. It simply adds or contributes nothing in any form or fashion.

      That is the difference. When you learn from constructive criticism you not only grow stronger but you may gain an ally. I've experienced it myself and the learning experience has been golden.

      To my knowledge, when I was a teenager 10 or so years ago I did alot of criticizing. Still do, nothings changed, so i'll most likely go to the grave bitching, guns loaded and all. IMHO we need more people with constructive criticism. If history is any marker in this industry at least, opensource is where most of it happens. In public open forums no less.

  21. Hypocrisy. by happymedium · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the Wikipedia article on DiDio:

    "The thing about Linux is, you can talk about a free, open operating system all you want, but you can't take that idea of free and open and put it into a capitalist system and maintain it as though it is some kind of hippie commune or ashram, because if you can do it like that, at that point I'm like, 'Pass the hookah please!'"

    "I'm all for open source, and competition serves everyone's interest. But if Linux is really to take its place alongside Windows... then the vendors in this space cannot act like a bunch of hippies in a '60s commune or ashram. There really is no such thing as a free lunch."

    She has a definite predisposal not to like open-source, right down to rejecting its philosophy and its ability to exist in a capitalist system... yet claims to be unbiased when her organization concludes that an open-source product inferior. She hates name-calling... but calls open-source developers communists and hippies.

    As far as I'm concerned, she's getting what's coming to her.

    1. Re:Hypocrisy. by at_slashdot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK this is off-topic a little bit, but I always wondered why some people think that people who advocate software freedom are communists?

      Communism is not about freedom, is about taking the freedom away from you for "higher" purposes (I know, I lived in a communist state). That's exactly what those kind of people who hate Linux say: "we should give up our freedoms to have a better economy" (which by the way is a false argument, but I don't want to go into that).

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
  22. Oh, Laura's objective alright... by rnturn · · Score: 5, Informative

    And for proof of that, check out her video here. Now, Laura, tell us again how objective you are again. (I could use a good laugh.)

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  23. Didio's objectivity spoiled by SCO involvement by Jboy_24 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article is a little misleading. It seems to imply that Didio was first harrassed by zealous linux supporters with her TCO survey.

    She doesn't mention her quick involvement in the SCO case, where she was one of the first and only Analysts to sign the SCO NDA and claim publically they had a solid case. She wasn't all to forthcoming to her 15 year friendship with everyone's fav marketing vp, Black Stowell either.

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/09/105501 09 12770.html?oneclick=true

    Quickly after that initial report she produced a report that critized Linux vendors for failing to indemnify customers, the exact same line Darl McBride was telling.

    http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/31252.html

    Then she produces a TCO report on Linux vrs Windows development that uses BEA and Oracle on the Linux side vrs IIS and SQL2000 on the MS side and reports MS is much cheaper then the linux solution. Which i belive is the one the article mentions.

    So to say Didio was unfairly attacked because she objectively came out with reports that critize linux is quite wrong. She was questioned because of her seemingly permament bias against Linux.

    If the source of this is not monetary, I'd hate to know what some Linux developer did to her to make it so Personal.

    1. Re:Didio's objectivity spoiled by SCO involvement by VP · · Score: 2, Informative
      She doesn't mention her quick involvement in the SCO case, where she was one of the first and only Analysts to sign the SCO NDA and claim publically they had a solid case. She wasn't all to forthcoming to her 15 year friendship with everyone's fav marketing vp, Black Stowell either.

      And if some are inclined to dismiss the above as trivial ("there are always stupid people out there, no need to pay attention to them"), read this statement at Groklaw.

      For those not aware of what had happened in the past few months: Canopy is an "umbrella" company, which was the biggest shareholder in SCO. It was founded by Ray Noorda, the founder of Novell, after he left Novell. Canopy's president (and SCO's chairman of the board of directors) was Ralph Yarro. Ralph Yarro was sacked from Canopy for bad business practices, he sued the new leadership of Canopy, and they sued him back, which exposed Yarro's schemes to distribute most of the money coming in from Canopy's investments to himself, and other directors in the form of huge bonuses.

      This was settled by giving Yarro Canopy's stock in SCO, but no before two people commiting suicide, one of which was Noorda's daughter. Her brother had this to say about her death:

      But the journalistic integrity of any publication is defeated when articles, such as those recently appearing in the Salt Lake Tribune, include quotes from "analysts" who are completely misleading and just plain wrong about nearly every fact and interpretation. When the information provided by analysts like Rob Enderle and Laura DiDio weren't incorrect, their statements represented speculation more fitting to a daytime soap opera than to the business section of a newspaper.
  24. The problem is by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It often degenerates into FUD. Like one of the most common ones I hear for why to switch to Linux is that Windows crashes all the time. Well, ok, maybe for that Linux user it did, I don't know, but for me it doesn't. It basically never crashes, even app crashes are pretty rare.

    Now when someone starts off with accusing your chosen thing of having problems it doesn't, you begin to think they are full of shit. Maybe they aren't making it up, maybe their experience is different than yours, but they need to base their comments off of your experience, since you are the one they are they are trying to convince.

    Another problem I find is trying to dismiss every problem Linux has, or somehow spin it into a good thing. Linux isn't perfect, nothing is. So when someone points out a flaw, and the Linux enthusist just tries to spin it as being nothing, or even a good thing, it again makes them sound full of it, and makes the rest of what they say sound less sincere.

    So it's not a matter of never mentioning the other side, it's a matter of finding out what the person wants to do, and talking to them about how Linux would be a good solution for that. Sometimes that may involve pointing out things it does better, but you do that in a constructive, not a demeaning way. Also when a flaw is noted in Linux, acknowledge it, don't pretend it's nothing.

    Generally I find that Linux people who are trying to convert someone take such a fanatical view of how cool Linux is and such a demaning view of Windows (complete with immature names like M$ and Winblows) that it's no supprise most people percieve them as extremists with no clue.

    1. Re:The problem is by DunbarTheInept · · Score: 4, Insightful


      So when someone points out a flaw, and the Linux enthusist just tries to spin it as being nothing, or even a good thing

      They are often telling the truth. Just because you consider something to be a bad thing doesn't mean I will. Linux has a very complete list of CLI apps and a rather incomplete list of GUI ones. For what I want to do this is far better than the Windows situation where it's the inverse of that. Therefore the feature "too much stuff done through the CLI" is not a flaw. Not to me. Obviously it's better to have both a GUI and a CLI, but if I can only have one because the developer is strapped for time, I'd rather have the CLI.

      It's not just spin. It's a difference of preferences.


      So it's not a matter of never mentioning the other side

      According to the person I was responding to, that's exactly what he claimed happened. I have my strong doubts.


      (complete with immature names like M$ and Winblows)

      Well, not to sound immature, but Microsoft started it - by picking product names that tried to supplant previously existing non-trademarked vocabulary. "windows" was the generic term for rectangles in your gui that stuff is displayed in. "SQL server" was a term that meant some kind of database that you can talk to with SQL. In my case (and I can't speak for everyone else) my strong dislike of the MS terminology is because they tried to hijack previously existing terminology and turn it into a trademark, and so it grates on my nerves to have to speak of their products using the hijacked term.

      --

      Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.

    2. Re:The problem is by Aeiri · · Score: 2, Informative

      It often degenerates into FUD. Like one of the most common ones I hear for why to switch to Linux is that Windows crashes all the time. Well, ok, maybe for that Linux user it did, I don't know, but for me it doesn't. It basically never crashes, even app crashes are pretty rare.

      I'd, for the most part, agree with that. Windows doesn't crash much, but I do see it crash quite a bit at my school. This isn't a jab at Windows, this is a jab at the network admins here. They have EVERYTHING stored on a set of network drives, and it generally doesn't work to well ;).

      I have a lot of reasons why I like Linux better than Windows. The main reason is the level of customizeability it has. I can map my keys to whatever I want (I have it fitting like a glove right now for me), control practically anything through settings of programs, etc.

      The amount of competition for programs is a lot higher than Windows has. Granted, Windows has a lot of freeware and shareware programs, but there isn't as big of a range on Windows. For instance, are there very many different volume control apps for Windows (I can only think of one, the default, off the top of my head...)? Off the top of my head, I can name these for Linux: alsamixer, rexima, aumix, kmix, gmix? (whatever the gnome one is), irmix. For different desktop environments (or window managers), I can only think of these for Windows: Explorer (that's what the default is called, right?) and LiteStep. For Linux: KDE, Gnome, CDE, Fluxbox, Openbox, Blackbox, IceWM, Window Maker, XFCE, TWM, FVWM, Enlightenment, Afterstep. The list goes on (dare I go into Virtual Terminals, we'll be here all day!). All of these are completely different, and can be used interchangeably, without affecting your other programs. Almost every Linux user would have a COMPLETELY different setup than another, whereas with Windows, you might have SOME people have radical differences, but beyond that they are all the same.

      It also allows me to get lower level with the OS, and get everything doing EXACTLY what I want it to (iptables for instance). Bash scripting is much much much much more versatile than Windows batch files, I don't know what I would do without bash now (I don't even use it as my shell, I use ZSH!).

      Basically put, Linux allows me to have my computer do exactly what I want it to. Windows didn't really do that for me, once I tried Linux, I was surprised what I was missing. Using Windows now makes me feel restricted, but Linux makes me feel free (HAHA A WITTY PUN, LAUGH!).

      I agree that Linux is not for everyone. I, infact, don't want people to switch to Linux if they don't want to spend the time learning it and customizing their computer to do what they want. If Windows does what you want already, and you want your computer to just "work", then you should be looking at Mac OS X for an alternative, not Linux. Although if you like the ideas behind Linux, then the steep learning curve might be worth it if you have the time.

    3. Re:The problem is by Angst+Badger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like one of the most common ones I hear for why to switch to Linux is that Windows crashes all the time. Well, ok, maybe for that Linux user it did, I don't know, but for me it doesn't. It basically never crashes, even app crashes are pretty rare.

      Disclaimer: I'm a systems software developer and a moderately enthusiastic Linux advocate.

      My experience is much the same. Win2k and WinXP have been very solid for me. During the time I've been using them, I have had two or three crashes per year at most. I've had about the same number from Linux on my desktop machine. (My Linux servers, on the other hand, have only gone down when I shut them down on purpose for a hardware upgrade.)

      In short, the whole Windows-crashes-all-the-time argument is outdated. Claiming otherwise will not improve one's credibility with Windows users. Nor will offering the GIMP as an alternative to Photoshop when talking to a design professional. Offering OpenOffice as an alternative to MS Office, on the other hand, can be compelling. It all depends on your needs. I still need -- thanks mostly to Adobe -- to dual boot.

      Now, as far as Laura DiDio goes, the real credibility gap comes when you have a non-programmer examining actual source code -- as she did at the beginning of the SCO fiasco -- and acting as if she has the ability to reach an informed opinion. (We leave aside the question of whether SCO's peek-a-boo evidence displays, now long discredited in the courts, should have been taken seriously to begin with.) I'm not a doctor. If you showed me a human heart and a pig heart of approximately equal sizes, I'm not sure I could tell which was which. I know I'm not qualified to form an opinion, so I reserve judgment. Likewise, Laura DiDio is not a software engineer, and ought to have reserved judgment when she was looking at isolated code snippets that a qualified professional would have rejected as too small and too context-free to reach a conclusion in the first place.

      Now, I'm not going to cast aspersions on the independence of DiDio or the Yankee Group. There may or may not be any bias stemming from funding. There clearly is a bias rooted in simple intellectual arrogance, or at the very least a failure to distinguish between business questions and technical questions. It's not necessary for these people to be whores; it's quite possible that they are simply honest people who are out of their depth and too conceited to realize it.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    4. Re:The problem is by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Companies often take generic terms and turn them into names, and sometimes it happens the other way (Velcro is a trademark, hook and eye fastener is the general name, Kleenex is a trademark, tissue paper is the general name).

      I'm not going to make any juvenile insults against MS for their names, but it is one thing that really irks me about them. It's like they have absolutely no creativity whatsoever when it comes to naming things. Some people might make the argument that MS wants it to be plainly obvious what the product is for, but they just go overboard. If some automaker made a car named, for instance, the "Chevy Sedan", they'd be laughed at. Some MS products do have thoughtful names, like Excel, Powerpoint, Visio, etc., but most of these seem to have been created when that particular product was owned and created by a different company, when MS later bought out. Their homegrown stuff usually has completely generic names, like SQL Server, Windows Server, Windows Media Player, etc. Overall, I think this just reflects on the company as a whole.

      As for zealots, you're going to have those on all sides, and their arguments are never going to be good. A smart and unbiased person should simply be smart enough to identify zealots and avoid them, and not allow their opinions to affect them. If you have a colleague at work who always wears t-shirts with Chevy emblems, and his cube is wallpapered with pictures of Chevies, and you overhear him constantly talking about how great Chevies are and how crappy "them foreign cars" are, why on earth would you ask him for advice on buying a car? It's pretty obvious where his preferences lie. But you also shouldn't avoid Chevies simply because this one fool makes them look bad by putting down the competition. (Actually, I don't like Chevies myself, but if you're going to take the word of a single anonymous guy on Slashdot about what car to spend $20k+ on, you really have gullibility issues.)

    5. Re:The problem is by bit01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Either way making up juvinile insulting variations on the name doesn't help your cause, it just makes you look immature.

      Not true. Marketers and politicians know how important language is - it literally defines the terms of the debate. Use you're opponent's terms and you've already lost the debate, as this article discusses.

      M$ would love it if everybody compared open source with M$Windows as a simple short-term TCO business decision, not as a long-term political decision. They'd love if it people ignored the long term, lockin and democracy compromising results of a private, unaccountable vendor monoculture and control. They'd love it if people continued to be good little consumers paying their $35,000,000,000+ per year for a dozen programs mostly written more than a decade ago with the most complicated bits, the device drivers, being written by third parties.

      Sorry, but I for one am not going to play their game. If that alienates some people then so be it - at least it encourages people to think about why M$ has so many enemies and about the M$ market manipulation e.g. bullshit like the pre-install contracts, icon management, deliberate incompatibility, keyboard keys, stickers, oh-sorry security problems and "accidental" web redirects. There's good reasons why people hate M$. M$ strategy has changed in emphasis now they are an established monopoly but they're still hugely benefiting from the legal but unethical tactics they've been pulling for decades now.

      ---

      zealotry n : excessive intolerance of opposing views.
    6. Re:The problem is by MrNonchalant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thank you, thank you so much. I just switched to Linux, but I've been a long time user of Windows and never had a serious problem. But the best example here is whenever somebody on Slashdot says they've been running Windows for years and haven't had a single security breach. This gets modded to +2 Informative. Then somebody says something along the lines of "Well, how do you know?" This person then gets modded to +5 Insightful.

      Bloody hell. The competent of us do have firewalls, antivirus software, Firefox, and antispyware software. We get a tick if we don't update these and the OS, and the Office suite, twice daily. We do open up task manager from time to time and look at processes (no not applications, processes). We do occaisonally cmd -> netstat. We have some idea of how a zombied machine looks like (we've cleaned out friends with such enough). We know with to about as much degree as possible whether or not we're running a compromised box.

      How the bloody hell do you Linux people know for sure you're not all compromised? (Exploits for Linux aren't completely unheard of, just harder to find) You do (or don't) the same way we do. We're not all clueless. In fact if you bothered to step outside your close circle of propaganda-spewing cronies for five seconds you'd find a surprising number of us aren't.

      I for one can't stand hearing you people talk about FUD anymore without looking in a mirror.

      Alright, I'm done, you can mod me down now.

    7. Re:The problem is by swv3752 · · Score: 2

      For every clueful user, there are 100's that are completely ignorant. Many have a willful ignorance. I do tech support for Windows and talk to dozens every day.

      Look at what you have to do for Windows in security- Firewall (depending on Version of Windows it is a third party addon), Antivirus (Probably a pay for option and closed source), Antispyware (Probably third party and at least a seperate addon), then finally run a third party browser. In Linux, you have a firewall that comes with the system, and a number of file monitoring tools if you are concerned about being compromised. I personally run a checkrootkit every now and then just to be sure. All the browsers are already there.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    8. Re:The problem is by tokabola · · Score: 5, Informative
      How the bloody hell do you Linux people know for sure you're not all compromised?

      More or less the same way competent Windows users do. Netstat, tripwire, checkrootkit, etc.

      Exploits for Linux aren't completely unheard of, just harder to find

      Actually, it's rather easy to detect a compromised Linux system, using only the tools that virtually every distro comes with "out of the box". Sure, you have to learn to use those tools, but I'm sure you weren't born knowing how to secure a Windows system.

      I get a little tired of Windows users saying "Linux is hard to use" when what they really mean is "It doesn't work like the system I know how to use and I'm too damn lazy to learn another", conveniently forgeting how long it took them to learn Windows in the first place.

      Most of the people I've met who didn't like Linux tell me the same thing. "I tried (insert long since obsolete version of redhat, usually 4 or 5 point something) for a couple days and didn't like it." Give it a chance - it'll take a few weeks of heavy use before you break out of the Windows mindset. Until you can break out of the Windows habits you'll never be able to appreciate the power and flexibility of Linux, and for Pete's sake download a RECENT distro. Comparing Redhat 5 to Win XP simply isn't fair. Comparing it to Windows 3.2, maybe.

      And it always amazes me how many Windows powerusers think nothing of reformating and throwing on a fresh install every six months just to "keep things fast" because the registry gets too much crap in it. Any website you visit can write to the registry unless you've installed a third party blocker like Finjan's Surfin Guard Pro. Your Antivirus/firewall/antispyware combo probably isn't preventing it - very few antispyware apps (and no firewalls or AVs that I'm aware of) will prevent registry writes. What a joke. If you don't believe me - get Surfinguard and watch the warnings pop up. Since people learned how to delete cookies many sites now use the registry to keep permanant tabs on you (and not just pr0n sites, either - CNN used to, among others).

      Tommy
      --
      Open Source for Open Minds
    9. Re:The problem is by GoofyBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Either way making up juvinile insulting variations on the name doesn't help your cause, it just makes you look immature.

      Read that point again and then look at how many times you typed "M$".

      We can focus on your points about Microsoft's actions and the debate surrounding the different parties and be open to new ideas... or we can be distracted by your interesting use of the dollar sign and what you mean by it.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    10. Re:The problem is by MrNonchalant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most of the people I've met who didn't like Linux tell me the same thing. "I tried (insert long since obsolete version of redhat, usually 4 or 5 point something) for a couple days and didn't like it."

      I'm using Ubuntu 5.04 (hoary) and I have no plans to switch back to Windows except where necessary (school).

      I get a little tired of Windows users saying "Linux is hard to use" when what they really mean is "It doesn't work like the system I know how to use and I'm too damn lazy to learn another", conveniently forgeting how long it took them to learn Windows in the first place.

      Uh. At least in Windows everything is graphical. You only have to revert to the command line if you're a power user. In Linux the difference is stark. In order to install every other app you have to compile from source (yes, I already searched the repository) (and yes I Googled for RPMs). Just to play a .mov I had apply about 20 commands. Windows was never, ever this hard. If you're incompetent enough you just have to click okay and next about 5 times. Cut the bullcrap. Doesn't mean I'm not going to stick with Linux.

      Any website you visit can write to the registry unless you've installed a third party blocker like Finjan's Surfin Guard Pro.

      Using an unpatched Internet Explorer, maybe.

    11. Re:The problem is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Uh. At least in Windows everything is graphical."

      What on Earth does that have to do with the point at hand? If you don't know how to do something on a system it's hard whether its graphical or not. I have no clue how to change the DNS server in Windows for example, but its glaringly obvious how to do it in UNIX. This is mainly because I've never used Windows and have used UNIX for years. I suspect the reverse is true for the people who denounce Linux as "hard to use".

      It's just a case of what you know.

    12. Re:The problem is by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Or we can do both.

      You are distracting from your own good points that you have and makes people question if you actually have a good point or have you an extreme bias and are blinded by love/hate.

      >I use it on /. mainly to counteract the M$ propaganda most people see on their PC keyboards every day.

      Thats about effective as saying I use IRC chat spelling or l33t-speak to combat against the mass oppression of the traditional educational system. It says more about you than it does about your message.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  25. Nut Jobs??? by natet · · Score: 2, Funny
    "I've had these nut jobs calling me at 11 o'clock at night," said DiDio.
    Inconsiderate people call at 11:00 pm. Nut jobs call at 4 am, and tell you what you are wearing in your bed as they watch you through a telescope from the apartment across the street.

    I should know. The court appointed Psychologist told me I'm a nut job. She said that was the technical term for it...

    --
    IANAL... But I play one on /.
  26. Do you even know who she is? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Informative

    Laura DiDio is the one who agreed with SCO if I recall that Linus stole millions of lines of Unixware code and warned CIO's to stay clear from it.

    Just take what she says wiuth a grain of salt.

  27. Here's what everyone here needs to understand.... by GPLDAN · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In politics, the first rule is to define your opponent. It really doesn't matter what your are about, it matters how you get others to percieve the opponent.

    This works as corporate marketing as well. Ads which are the most effective are ones that frame the competition as being idiots or ridiculous. The Coke vs. Pepsi truck driver commercials, etc.

    This is strategy. Frame Linux advocates as fringe element types. Frame the open source movement as un-American, hippy idealism. Cast aspersions, and most importantly, PUT A WOMAN UP FRONT TO PLAY THE VICTIM ROLE.

    Oh no, she's been flamed and horrible emails have been sent. Linux zealots are RUINING things. They are vociferously countering our FUD and constantly shedding light on our spin and half truths. We need to stop them!

    This is a war. It's a war against a monolithic corporation which controls the operating system market with an iron grip, and is co-opting the mainstream press and buying favorable press. On the other side is the open source movement, now potentially aided by companies like IBM which will genuinely help it achieve legitimacy in the corporate and academic worlds. European and South American countries are realizing they get escape debt cycles by simply getting out from under the thumb of insane software license schemes.

    In this war, you can expect every trick to be used. Linux users will be cast in the vein of the Simpson's comic book guy. Sarcastic nerds, nobodies, people who are wacko. People who hate capitalism and hate intellectual property law.

    It's ordinary every day programmers contributing to something for the gerater good vs. Madison avenue types running bought and paid for marketing campaigns. You need to defy them by refusing to be defined by them. You need to recruit other people to the benefits of OpenOffice and OpenVPN and Linux and away from corporate juggernauts who will try and FUD this thing to kill it.

  28. Re:Name calling by Laura_DilDio · · Score: 2, Funny

    Actually, at the time I didn't want everyone to know what I was really being called...but I've come to embrace it, as it's my only source of pleasure in this world.

  29. Calls at 11pm by trelanexiph · · Score: 2, Funny

    Laura, how have you been since we talked on the phone? I'm hardly a terrorist, I gave you my name and position in the open-source community when I called you, and you know as well as I do the reason for that call, but I will re-iterate it here. If you call us ankle-biting terrorist car-bombers, we can and will make this a self-fulfilled prophecy. My intent in calling you was not to terrorize but to ask you why you would say such things about a productive and creative community? While it may have been 11pm there it was 7pm on the west coast.
    Stick to your analysis and don't preach, it makes you look ever so slightly less biased. SCO found this out, you found this out, do not fuck with a community of people who have put their talent, and their names on the line to write code, and support the community. We have a thin, thin tolerance of people publically abusing us for no good reason other than that you seem to feel like it. I wonder, was William Genevesse (arrested for stealing the winows 2000 software and reselling it) ever convicted of being an "open source terroist" or perhaps and "ankle-biter" (I might agree with you here).
    Truth be told you were dead wrong and instead of waiting for LAW ENFORCEMENT to do their job and arrest the cracker responsible for this, you launched a slur campaign.

  30. Really? by khasim · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Should?Mozilla/FireFox fanatics do it whether you ask them to or not. They expend lots of energy saying "Just another reason to switch!" over and over again.
    They email you specifically? I find that difficult to believe.

    I'm sure they tell each other that. Particularly on /., but you do not have to take it personally.
    Whoop-de-fuck. Not everybody cares about that as their first priority. Nor does everybody care about flipping off Microsoft. What a lot of people DO care about is if the browser is better. Fortunately, FireFox generally is quite a bit better than IE, so it's not such a hard sell anymore.
    "generally". But not always. I'm stuck with IE at work because of stupid Windows-only web apps that we have. But it cost me NOTHING to download it and try it to see if I would like it or not.
    It is funny, though, how these stories work on Slashdot. When an IE exploit is published, it's "Just another reason to switch to FireFox or Mozilla!" When a Mozilla/FireFox exploit is published it's "Just another reason to switch to FireFox or Mozilla!"
    Yeah. Okay. I hope that works for you.
    What's it matter? If all you Linux twerps still giggle and snort at BSOD jokes, then you shouldn't expect a Windows user to take you seriously.
    Again, the question is, when you see the same behaviour from Microsoft, does that make you switch?

    Or does that ONLY apply when the subject is Open Source?

    If you're going to be biased, then don't complain about how others are biased. That's just hypocritical.

    Which is the main problem with DiDio. She takes anything SCO said as gospel and discounted any contradictory evidence presented.

    Do you need me to remind you of the "obfuscated" code that SCO was showing under NDA that she signed and then wrote about how it looked as if SCO's case was air-tight? Hmmmmmm?
  31. Ahh, I see by Burz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having invested so much in a heavy-handed SCO shill (DiDio), the Yankee Group finds it now has a huge credibility problem on its hands.

    So now the Yankee Group wants to blame a nebulously-defined class of scapegoats ("Linux extemists") while it tries to recover.

    Face it Yankee: Even Gartner did not make the same factual and ideological mistakes you did. Having your wagon hitched to SCO must be no fun right now and no doubt it is hurting business; THAT is the fault of noone but DiDio and her boss.

  32. Damaged Reputation by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's rather facinating that the article quotes some rather infamous sources. Mi2g's security analysis has been constantly criticized. Laura Didio's analysis of OS issues, and even the legality of code in the SCO case has also been under constant question. Google around; criticism isn't hard to find. It's not that the opinions of these analysists are unpopular; they're simply suspect.

    It must be very convenient for them to have a few zealots around to distract from the question of the quality of their work.

  33. Re:Link? by happymedium · · Score: 4, Informative

    Certainly. I got it from an AC post that was first modded down as a troll. But commentary on it is "+4 interesting"? Mods...WTF?

  34. +6, Incredible by cyberformer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow. Wished I hadn't burned all my mod points about the spammer. I've seen Bill Gates make presentations that are less enthusiastic about Microsoft or hostile to Linux.

    The open-source community's basic problem, as far as Didio et al are concerned, is that it doesn't give the Yankee Group enough money. It really is that simple.

  35. If the Linux radicals haven't already... by samdu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...damaged the reputation of Linux, then there's little chance they ever will. Linux adoption has increased every year for at least the last five years and the rabid voices were loudest in the early days. I don't see how they can halt the momentum at this point.

  36. Re:Absolutely by Neopoleon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "This is an error that pops out pretty regularly when using a particular mode of communication with FoxPro"

    I can see how that would be irritating.

    Before I joined Microsoft, I was an independent, and I cautioned clients against using Access about 95% of the time they brought it up simply because they usually wanted to throw it at problems for which it was never intended.

    As with any technology, avoiding errors and doing well with the software requires an understanding of the terrain - I'm not saying that your problem is trivial or insignificant, but I've never seen it before.

    Sometimes, it comes down to particular installs.

    Anyway, your story reminds me of the frustration I used to feel whenever X would shit itself, drop me to the command line, and refuse to start again.

    Trying to get help from the h4x0rz in the user groups was like pounding my head against the wall.

    There are problems on both sides of the fence.

    "I hate Microsoft"

    Wow. That's a bit of a strong sentiment.

    I certainly don't hold the entire OSS world for every problem I've ever had with open source software (and the problems have been many).

    Interesting.

    --
    - Rory [Microsoft Employee] | Free dirt: neopoleon.com
  37. This probably won't go over too well... by jht · · Score: 2, Informative

    First of all, I support, use, and sell Linux in my daily work. I also do the same for Microsoft products, Novell products, and Apple products (whatever fits a client best). I don't really have an OS dog in this particular hunt.

    That said, in my prior professional life I was a corporate-type IT manager. For two different companies over an 11-year period. During that time an old college friend of mine went to work for Computerworld as a reporter, and through her I met and occasionally worked with Laura DiDio back when she was covering the Novell beat for CW (old Google searches will probably turn up a quote or two from me in articles of hers). I can't directly speak of her attitudes now, because it's been a couple of years since I've spoken to her (I've talked to her about stuff since she joined Yankee, though). Here's my take on Laura, and where she's coming from:

    Laura is not a tech geek like most of us are. She's also not specifically a fanboy of any particular company or technology. Laura's strength at CW was in insight - she did a good job of seeing through the fluff that companies were spewing and getting to the "real" impact behind it. Covering Novell back when Microsoft was first starting to take a big bite out of their business, she recognized then that it wasn't the superiority of the product that was winning the battle for Microsoft, it was the marketing. She also saw what Novell was doing wrong, but wasn't in a position to do much about it other than point it out in columns.

    As an analyst, I'd say her work (that I've read) is usually solid. I don't agree with all her conclusions, but remember - her job is to figure out what mainstream business is doing and is interested in. It's not to rave about one platform or another. And since mainstream business is on Windows, converting would incur costs and complications that don't exist if they stay on Windows. Some companies would save money by moving to Linux - some would not. Sometimes it's worth it for a business. Sometimes it's not. And sometimes she's spot-on - sometimes she's not.

    The folks who post flames about her and other analysts who say anything other than "Linux rocks and Windows sucks" regularly are giving Linux a bad name, Slashdot a bad name, and the whole open source/free software community a bad name. There are valid criticisms one can make of some of DiDio's work. Flaming the messenger personally because you don't agree with her professional conclusions - that's just stupid.

    Even Rob Enderle deserves better.

    OK, maybe that's going a little too far...

    --
    -- Josh Turiel
    "2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
  38. Brent Noorda responds by mojoNYC · · Score: 2, Informative
    it seems it takes an extremist to know one:

    Yesterday, Brent Noorda posted an open letter on Groklaw Brent Noorda Sets the Record Straight --here's a key quote:

    While the information provided by analysts like Rob Enderle and Laura DiDio weren't incorrect, their statements represented speculation more fitting to a daytime soap opera than to the business section of a newspaper.

    this refers in part to DiDio's many inflammatory statements, in particular one from the SLC Tribune on March 9:

    No one could say for sure Wednesday, although Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio had some advice for those watching the fortunes of both Canopy and the Noorda Family Trust - two entities controlling hundreds of millions of dollars. "This is all about the money, and the ones most closely following the money are the Noordas' [four] kids," she said. "Who stands to gain the most? And what's the only thing that stood between them and the money?

    "That was Ralph Yarro. So, good-bye, Ralph," DiDio added. "I don't think Yarro will be reinstated. I find that highly unlikely. . . They will just pay him off and send him on his way - but they won't countenance anyone who's a threat" to their monetary access.

    People following the case know about Val Noorda Kreidel's tragic suicide a few weeks ago, and evidently, Brent Noorda felt compelled to address the out-of-bounds tactics of these so-called 'analysts.'

    While it could be agreed that there are individual extremists among the pro-FOSS crowd, DiDio and her fellow neo-cons (Enderle, Maureen O'Gara) consider Groklaw itself to be a radical extremist site, despite the solid legal reportage done by Pamela Jones and company (so good, in fact, that SCO raided Groklaw's documents to seed their own prosco site).

    While DiDio is crying harrassment, one could have a sense that the best defense is a good offense, as in she'd rather take offense than apologize for her own transgressions...

    I encourage everybody who hasn't already, to check out Brent Noorda's open letter on Groklaw, and then decide for yourself who's the real extremist!

  39. Re:Here's what everyone here needs to understand.. by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 3, Insightful


    You're absolutely correct on every point.

    And that's why people hate these clowns like DiDio - because these clowns are fundamentally vicious assholes who think nothing of lying and stealing and using the state to crush their opponents.

    Back in the 1960's, one of the Situationist International people made the point that the hot violence of mobs and riots - so often derided as mindless violence - was precisely the right antidote to the cold, malicious thwarting of human potential which the state and the corporations DELIBERATELY engage in for their own benefit.

    And as Bush and his cronies have demonstrated, these kind of people will kidnap you, torture you, and kill you and everyone around you to get their way - and then smirk about it at press conferences.

    Unfortunately for them, so will I (leaving out the press conferences). Worse, I'm willing to wait for the right technology to perform a "Final Solution" on their asses.

    Meanwhile, you are correct that the appropriate response is to keep producing good stuff and show it to people. Things will keep getting better if we do.

    And that's why, as someone else posted, DiDio is "squealing like a pig" - and so is Bill.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  40. the claim of FUD is FUD by kpharmer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Didio is just trying to discredit her critics:

    the issue *isn't* that open source advocates are attacking her analysis.

    the isue *is* that open source advocates have discovered that:
    1. she teamed up with a microsoft gold partner to perform the analysis
    2. they sent the survey to subscribers to a microsoft publication (a completely biased sample)
    3. the analysis & survey don't match up well - a considerable amount of apparently unfounded interpretation occured.

    So, are open source advocates sometimes excessive? Sure. But more to the point: Didio's analysis was beyond flawed - it was deceptive. And that discredits her as well as Forester.

  41. questioning their objectivity? by alizard · · Score: 2, Informative
    an article running on ZDNet in which the consulting firm The Yankee Group goes after folks in the Linux community who have been questioning their objectivity. From the article: "Laura DiDio,

    My, that name sounds familiar. I remember her repeating SCO's unsubstantiated claims about Linux being stolen SCO code.

    You mean people haven't been questioning their competence?

    I think the problem that Yankee Group has is indeed that Open Sourcers are questioning their competence in inconvenient places like the offices of CIOs and CTOs, and if the direct customers for Yankee Group publications and analysis start hearing enough questions as to whether or not the products are a rational use of company funds, Yankee is likely to find their customers going to the competition or even bringing analysis in-house.

    Yankee doesn't sell to end users, their only market is corporate/investor, and ALL they have to sell is their credibility.

    They should concentrate on finding facts to analyze, not trying to spread more Linux-related FUD. The only credibility that sort of thing hurts is their own.

    This isn't "Linux zealots hurting. . ." anything but Yankee Group. I'm sure the Gartner people enjoyed reading the article.

  42. Some quotes by bruns · · Score: 4, Informative

    One of the quotes that helped Laura earn the name DiDiot:

    "Within the open source community, there are a large percentage of tinkers and 'ankle biters' who are trying their hand at hacking. Some are even communicating with each other. So it only takes one or two of these groups sharing information to be able to pull something off. When you have this type of passion, it's hard to fight because these people are like virtual suicide car bombers."

    If you can't stand the heat Laura, don't keep throwing fuel on the fire.

    Even though Billy boy over there says that you can't get burned by being his shill, you might get an unpleasant surprise...

    --
    Brielle
  43. Some good points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    My experience with 2000 and XP haven't been a disaster, but they still don't have the uptime of Linux boxes of the same vintage. Also, once you start getting into third party applications, from a non-technical seat-of-the-pants experience, Linux still is a set-it-and-forget-it setup while Windows 2000 and to a lesser extent XP/2003 just aren't there yet. With Windows adopting Unix permissions, and Linux incorporating SE-Linux into the distros/kernel, it looks like both systems are headed for more secure computing in the future. As to patching, Linux has Windows beat hands down. As to viruses and worms affecting the servers themselves and their clients, I'll leave that for others to quantify, I know what my finacials say on actual virus/worm costs and resulting downtime.

    As for Gimp and Photoshop, I just used both in the last 24 hours, both work fine for me. Having used Gimp more regularly, I'm starting to find that Photoshop is becoming harder to use instead of Gimp. The opposite was true in the past, as I always believed as many do that Photoshop simply had a superior UI. Now that I remember better where the tools are in Gimp, I'm starting to find that the opposite is true. And I'm finding that Gimp is using fewer resources on my Linux computers than on Windows. But that's just me.

    The problem with Ms. Didio however is bigger. Are you aware that she has had more than just an analyst relationship with one of the SCO old timers, iirc? I'm not talking about a personal relationship ala dating. In the last few months, if I recall correctly, it came out either by herself or by another reporter that knows her that she has been in contact with Yarro for decades, and iirc, the relationship wasn't of analyst/exec, it was "friends" if I got that right. I don't remember the article verbatim, but the relationship to Yarro that was explained hit me like a bolt of lightening because it explained her bias about as well as Rob Enderle's relationship with Bill Gates:

    With Microsoft my relationship goes deeper. A few years back, when I was first starting out as an analyst, I got myself into a lot of hot water by doing something I knew was wrong to prevent a crime from being committed. I am both an ex-auditor and an ex-sheriff and took the related vows very seriously and still, for the most part, live by them. By all accounts I would have lost my job and probably had to change careers again if it weren't for Bill Gates personally coming to my defense and pointing out that what I did probably kept a lot of folks out of jail. He didn't have to do that and, to this day I doubt he even remembers he did,

    but I remember.

    Further, Ms. Didio has pumped out more than one "independent survey" that is a little less than independent. From exactly how the questions are worded, to using multiple choices that don't allow alternative answers, to using pro-Microsoft audiences as the target audience for the surveys:

    "Located in Tampa Bay, Florida, Sunbelt Software is the first and one of the largest providers of "best-of-breed" Windows NT, 2000/2003 utilities, supplying the tools necessary to support a Windows NT/2000 infrastructure. Working in partnership with innovative software developers, Sunbelt Software produces leading edge utilities and provides mainframe quality technical support. Sunbelt Software Inc. is a member of the 2001 Inc. 500 list of America's fastest growing companies. . . .

    "Sunbelt is a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner interested in what Windows network administrators need to solve their NT/2000 problems. We are constantly surveying NT/2000 administrators to determine which utilities

  44. Example: GM halts ads in LA Times by kupci · · Score: 2, Informative
    And in that case, the vendor can exhibit tremendous pressure to make sure that no negative remarks are made about their products or even steer analyst reports in the direction they would like.

    Very true. For a current example, look at the significant pressure (withdrawing advert) GM has exerted on the LA Times, for what seems to me stating the obvious: GM is in trouble. (Where else but LA would you get pulitzer prize winning articles on the auto industry?)

    So rather than take the advice, make corrective action, they , having seem to failed in their efforts to muzzle the reporter, apply pressure by withdrawing their advert. Yes, I agree it's a fine line - why advertise in a paper that writes bad reviews - however the possible impact on the Time's objectivity, or any other newspaper, is important. GM to stop LA Times advertising

    On Wednesday, the paper published a column by auto critic Dan Neil that called GM, which has struggled recently with sluggish sales, "a morass of a business case" and called for the "impeachment" of two executives. Among other criticisms, Neil said GM "utterly missed the boat on hybrid gas-electric technology" while speeding up production of SUVs.

    Neil won the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for criticism, cited by the judges for "one-of-a-kind" reviews of automobiles blending technical expertise with "offbeat humor and astute cultural observations."

    Bill Moyers, before retiring from NOW, said one of the most critical issues facing democracy was that increasing control of the media by just a few companies (Think Murdoch and the Fox Empire).