Anti-DMCA Petition in Canadian Parliament

Matthew Skala writes "Last month we heard that the Canadian government is rejecting some of the worst features of the DMCA (more analysis here), but with Heritage Minister Liza Frulla parroting the media-cartel lobby with a promise to "give the tools to companies and authors to sue" and persuade children that downloading music for free is morally wrong even though it's presently legal in Canada, the battle is far from won. Yesterday, Member of Parliament Peter Julian (Burnaby-New Westminster, NDP) introduced the first batch of signatures on Digital Copyright Canada's Petition for Users' Rights. This isn't just a Web click-through petition that politicians can freely ignore; more than a thousand real hardcopy signatures have already been collected from Canadian residents opposed to further expansion of copyright privileges, and the campaign is hoping for many more. Additional coverage on p2pnet.net."

Comments

Legal vs. moral

[October_30th]

Uh, what kind of an argument is that?

If something's legal, it doesn't mean it's also moral and conversely, doing the morally right thing might not be legal at the time.

Re:Legal vs. moral

[camkind]

As Rev. Lovejoy once said to Marge

"Once something has been approved by the Government, It's no longer immoral."

Re:Legal vs. moral

[satherto]

Actually it is moral to burn music for free in Canada, as we pay a surcharge on every blank CD, Cassette tape, and VCR tape to give to the artists. The reason it is legal and moral, is that the work has been paid for MANY times over due to the levy.

As has been stated many times, the levy goes to the copywrite holders (in Canada) not to the government.

It is (IMHO) that it is immoral to take our money and then try to convince us that we can't use what we have purchased.

Re:Legal vs. moral

[Anonymous Coward]

If it really was thievery, that is.

To me, it's the equivalent of someone photocopying Dilbert from the news paper, and passing it out during business meetings, etc.

or someone taking the newspaper from the breakroom, photocopying Dilbert, and adding it to his Dilbert collection, perhaps even scanning it and leaving it on an obscure page in his website, for people he wants to have. Why is not important in this case.

I mention this because the issue of photocopied comic strips getting distributed in offices has come before the courts in the past, as has the RIAA/ASCAP/BMI suing companies where an employee has had a radio playing at a loud enough level for employees to hear, perhaps because the Muzak salesman was rebuffed...

If I take your CD collection, *THAT* is thievery.
If I reattribute my CD music collection as being of my own creation (music, lyrics, recording, etc.), *THAT* is thievery.

While the artists tend to have "copyright" for the music and lyrics of their works, the fact is that the recording distributor has been assigned copyright for the recordings. The artists do not have copyright possession on their recordings.

It's like people essentially advocating felony-level punishment for a mere +5MPH speeding violation. Yes, it's a "crime", but it's not a Crime. Too many people have lost sight of that.

Next time you're in a restaraunt for a birthday celebration, especially if it's a national chain, get the waitstaff to also sing "Happy Birthday" with you, in addition to whatever they have for a birthday act. Blammo, commercial performance of someone's copyrighted song.

Teaching right from wrong

[TripMaster Monkey]

From the article:

She [Liza Frulla] said she wanted to make it her mission to persuade children that downloading music for free is wrong.

Mabye she could start up a hip, happening new ad campaign like the SPA's Don't Copy that Floppy.

Mabye it will be just as effective, too.

Mabye I'm a Chinese jet pilot.

Re:Teaching right from wrong

[01000011011101000111]

Even better - persuade all music ever released to carry a little black and white warning label saying "Parental Advisory - Listening prohibited" :)

I'm downloading the petition now.

[ahsile]

And plan to sign it, and have everyone I know sign it. I won't have my rights stepped on without a fight. Who knows, maybe parliment will even reject the WIPO changes.

Re:I'm downloading the petition now.

[ShaniaTwain]

See this just doesnt seem right. Canadians are supposed to be passive and polite to a fault. Americans are supposed to be Freedom loving individuals that hate big government interfering in their life. Where am I? bizzaro world?

Ah well, at least the Canadians aren't burning down the white house anymore..

Re:I'm downloading the petition now.

[maxpublic]

Ah well, at least the Canadians aren't burning down the white house anymore..

And this is a good thing???

Max

Re:I'm downloading the petition now.

[Kwil]

By that argument, it was also the British who fought for independance.

Re:I'm downloading the petition now.

[Yaztromo]

British Troops burned the white house (canada wasnt a country in the war of 1812, still a british territory).

no, im not a history geek....

And boy, does it show.

At the time of the War of 1812, there were two territories with the name "Canada" in them -- Upper Canada, and Lower Canada. People who lived in those territories were known as "Canadians" (or, in the case of Lower Canada, "les Canadiens").

A group can be a people with having a nation. Ever hear of the Kurds? The Palestinians? The Welsh?

There was a Canada before Confederation, and the people who lived there were Canadians. Yes, they were British subjects (although their loyalties to the British crown certain varied -- Native Canadians and French Canadians also participated in the War, but generally held no special loyalty to the crown), but there is nothing preventing anyone from calling them "Canadians", and being perfectly understandable and correct when they do so.

Yaz.

Here...

[Anonymous Coward]

let me save you guys some time.

• Why cant the USA be more like Canada?
• Why do all the places with the best governments have the worst weather?
• You like Canada so much, go move there!

Enjoy.

Re:The NDP isn't in power.

[ytwang]

The NDP isn't irrelevant. The current government has a minority of seats, so if all the opposition parties vote against a proposed piece of legislation, then it won't pass.

Signatures

[Shadow Wrought]

more than a thousand real hardcopy signatures have already been collected from Canadian residents

Shoot, that's half the country right there alrady opposed to it!

Re:The NDP isn't in power.

[Ubergrendle]

Except we currently have a minority government, which means the Liberals have to tread very carefully to avoid losing the confidence of the house.

Also, given the latest sponsorship scandal (biggest scandal in Canadian politics in the last 10, maybe 20 years) the opposition parties will be looking for publically popular positions to use to 'gang up' on the ruling party.

This petition has some weight given its timing, and private member's bills have been known to successfully be passed...especially during minority governments.

Re:The NDP isn't in power.

[JustDisGuy]

"The NDP isn't in power...and is therefore irrelevant in a Parliamentary system"

Erm - WTF are you talking about? This isn't an "NDP" initiative, and even if it were our government is currently a MINORITY government, which gives all MP's, especially those sitting in opposition, significantly more power.

While I do not doubt that the politicians WILL ignore it, I think they do so at their peril. And just because I have no hope that they will lend credence to the petition does not mean I will not get everyone I know to sign it and send it to Parliament Hill in my MP's hands.

Laws based on Morals.

[ShaniaTwain]

All laws should be based on morals. its the moral thing to do. otherwise the cavity of immorality will rot away the molars of our morals.

Re:Laws based on Morals.

[Anonymous Coward]

> I find that morality seems to always infringe on a person's rights and freedoms.

I find also that my morals are always infringing on my own rights and freedoms. Which is weird, because they're my morals, so they're right, but also they're wrong.

> So you see, you can't simply force a set of moral upon an entire population.

Not simply. It takes a lot of weaponry and planning.

> Morality is a personal choice.

OK.

> If someone chooses not to be moral,
> well there's no way you're going to force them to have a sense of
> morality.

Wait. So morality exists, and people choose to be moral or immoral? If morality exists absolutely, then how can you force morality onto someone? They either choose to be moral, or not.

> Part of freedom is being free to choose

All of freedom is being free to choose. That's it.

> and in this case being free to choose what you think is moral and immoral.

So if I choose to have no sense of morality, then what have I chosen?

You're confusing me. Stop it.

Canada Icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it about time that Slashdot gets a 'Canada' Topic Icon? We have a USA one.

I mean, how many YRO stories involve Canada doing something we wish was happening here? Don't we get more 'Canada' stories than, say, 'Transmeta' stories or 'Geeks in Space' stories?

I hope America decides to butt in...

[Atroxodisse]

I hope the American lobby tries to butt in to get Canada to make more severe copyright laws because speaking as a Canadian, nothing makes us more stubborn than when America tries to make us do something we haven't made up our minds on. End result, no additional copyright laws.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Weather The NDP is in power or not...

[Wacky_Wookie]

Peter Julian is the Member Parliament (MP) for that area. So anyone who gets 25 or more signitures for there area must take their copy of the petition to their MP, weather their in "power" or not!

My MP (Jaff Brya Victoria-Becon Hill, [Libral]) happens to be a member of the ruling party, and ther more MP's whose contsituants ask their MP's to Present the petition to Parliament the stronger it looks!

Here is the Cool part: If I am correct, only 25 signitures are needed for each MP, so the more Rideings (Canadian for an MP's electoral district) who collect signitures, the better!

Copied from MY OWN AC post cus I forgot to turn cookies on in Firefox!

Ive done it

[crabpeople]

Just printed off the petition, passed it around the department to sign and then gave it to the shipping department to mail out.

Total time: 25 minutes
Cost to me: 50cents (postage)

Feeling empowered istead of victimized: Priceless

theres some laws you cant buy, for everything else theres internet petitions

Off-topic but needs to be said

[PChemGuy]

I am a Canadian living in the US. I'm really tired of seeing comments like this from people on both sides of the border. For Americans, Canada is not the simple nation that some of you view it to be. It is also not the crime-free utopia that I hear about all the time. For most Canadians, you don't know half as much about the US as you think you do. The US is a much better country than prevailing attitudes would have you believe.

We could all learn a lot more about each other if we got rid of these attitudes and spent a little time getting to know one another's countries.

Re:It isn't stealing

[October_30th]

In Canada we even even have the blank media levy (tax) to pay the copyright holders for their work.

Yep. We have the same thing and IIRC the official line is that it doesn't entitle us to copy copyrighted material except for our own private use. It's not an excuse to burn copies of an audio CD to your friends outside the immediate family, for instance. That's copyright infringement.

Interestingly, our taxi companies also have to pay for the music if the drivers want to have a radio on while driving around with a customer. It's deemed as public performance. More recently, churches and kindergartens have also been asked to pay if they wish "to perform" (ie. sing) copyrighted hymns and songs for children. No, that's not a joke. They tried this already a few years ago but that caused a public uproar. This time they might be able to pull it off, though.

Re:Canada Rocks

[saforrest]

Lots of French people in Canada.

For God's sake, they've been here for four hundred years!

At this point they're about as French as English-speaking North America is British, no matter what Triumph the Insult Comic Dog says.

Re:Get the facts straight.

[Anonymous Coward]

Downloading commercial music without payment is not.

Actually, if by "downloading" you mean making a personal copy of someone else's commercial music, then you're wrong.

The Canadian Copyright Act specifically allows personal copies of music to be made. The U.S.A. has never had an equivalent exclusion in its copyright laws.

Re:Get the facts straight.

[tricops]

Here's actual information related to its current legality in Canada... right here. It is currently legal to download personal copies. Whether that status will change, who knows...