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Recovering Domains from Negligent Registrars?
Mousit asks: "I am curious on how fellow Slashdot readers have dealt with negligent and unresponsive registrars. For a few years or so now, I've been using Jump Domain as my registrar for the domains I own and maintain. This was originally by choice, but for the last year or two it has been by force. I lost a domain to them early last year when I attempted to renew it and the automated process failed, putting it into a 'pending' status in wait for 'manual intervention' as the message told me. This intervention never happened, support tickets about it were never answered, and on top of it my money was never refunded. The domain simply lapsed, expired, and nothing was done about it. Have others experienced similar problems with Jump Domain or any other registrar, and what did they do to recover their domains? Is it even possible? Short of getting a lawyer, the options seem rather slim when a registrar decides to simply ignore you and eat your domains (and your money)."
"Attempts to transfer my domains to other registrars failed for nebulous reasons which were always attributed to Jump Domain's fault and never satisfactorily explained, at least for the .com domains. Since I can't get JD to answer their support tickets, I have never been able to obtain the EPP codes needed for transfering .org domains. I am effectively trapped in Jump Domain's service, and I am losing domains one by one. The story is currently in repetition, with two more domains now stuck in "pending" status. Support tickets are again unanswered, and this time I even have a couple telephone numbers. One simply rings endlessly, while the other answers with a machine for Jump Domain Hosting support. My messages there have gone unanswered. One domain has already lapsed into expiration as of Saturday, the other will go this Thursday.
It's worth noting that Jump Domain used to be a reseller for TUCOWS, but they appear to have been dropped. They are now reselling for the sometimes infamous eNom instead. Considering even TUCOWS couldn't get a response out of JD during the previous lost domain episode, I'm not surprised they had to change. I have contacted eNom but was summarily told I need to deal with Jump Domain, and was given no further help from them."
It's worth noting that Jump Domain used to be a reseller for TUCOWS, but they appear to have been dropped. They are now reselling for the sometimes infamous eNom instead. Considering even TUCOWS couldn't get a response out of JD during the previous lost domain episode, I'm not surprised they had to change. I have contacted eNom but was summarily told I need to deal with Jump Domain, and was given no further help from them."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
From my experience, it's quite effective if you find another registrar to take over the domain hosting. They're in the same business, and will go the extra mile to secure new clients.
Most of the time it's because we don't know what/where to ask, that's why you need lawyers to defend even the most obvious case.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Personally, if a registrar took my money with the understanding that they would be providing me a service in return, and then did not provide that service with obvious willful abandon and intent to remove my intellectual property from my possession (my domain is my IP), I would consider that an egregious act of fraud...
But that's just me.. Your DA may or may not believe otherwise...
Try filing a complaint with ICANN
Depending on if anyone else is out there trying to grab your domain, I guess you can just let it fall and then buy it back through someone else. Or maybe you can try godaddy's back ordering system. This would also depend on if someone else is out there trying to grab it.
What are the good/bad domain registrars? Is there a comprehensive list with feedback somewhere?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Sorry to hear about your plight, but unfortunately usually the only option left when the company does not respond is to seek legal action. I'm hardly a lawyer, but you might be able to recoup some of your legal costs by suing the company for them, but might not be such a good idea against today's armies of corporate lawyers.
This sort of thing is exactly why I only use domain registrars and hosting companies that either have independent, positive feedback or ones that my friends use. One should always do their homework before going into something like this.
My other Sig is
I'd say someone just forgot about it.
For context, click Parent.
He already has domains registered with Jump Domain. He does not want to abandon those domains, and he can't seem to transfer them. You could suggest a thousands amazing registrars, and it won't help him with this problem
hrmm it'd be funny to re-register jumpdomain.com with another registrar wouldn't it? :-P
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
Slashdot Parse Error, Paragraph 1: Option #3 of business plan not literal "Profit!". Re-enter.
OK, I'm assuming this is all occurring in the USA. If so, might it be possible to file a small claims action against them? The money is not large, but at least then you would have a legal decision on your side and perhaps help from the local prosecutors office (or sherrif) to enforce the judgement. It doesn't cost much to have a case heard in small claims court.
Jump Domain postal address, even in their corporate filings, is a MailBoxes, Etc. maildrop - 790 W. 40 HWY #197, BLUE SPRINGS MO 64015.
5) Hemos posts a dupe of your original complaint.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I and and some friends have had the same problems described by you and others.
Jumpdomain is not a registrar and is simply a reseller for OpenSRS (older domains) and eNom (newer domains). This is good since it means you can end run around them to get your domains transferred.
There have been three problems I've had transferring domains:
1) The admin email address is setup to be an auto@domains.jumpdomain.com (or something similar) which doesn't end up being delivered to the actual admin of the domain. This causes all of the automated transfer emails to not get delivered. You can update this information through OpenSRS at www.adminchange.com. I haven't needed to do this with eNom, but I'm guessing they have a similar process.
2) Domain is locked. This is done specifically to prevent the transfer of the domain and is usually a good thing, but in this case, it's preventing you from using your domain. The Jumpdomain admin interface worked for a few domains, but others I had to contact OpenSRS or eNom directly.
3) No way to access the EPP code needed for EPP registries (like .org and .us). I had to contact eNom directly and after explaining it was for Jumpdomain, they immediately sent the codes out to me.
I highly suggest doing all of this before your domain expires, since you'll need to rewew your domain before you can do any transfers (you might be able to get away with a reseller to reseller transfer with OpenSRS if it's expired, but I don't remember for sure).
Good luck!
Have a lawyer write them a letter, send it certified.
.. tell them you intend to sell their reseller account. At the very minimum this will get the attention of somebody at those respective registrars.
Explain in the letter that they either need to respond to you in writing how to transfer your domain name or you will be taking them to small claims court for the amount of the domain, along with the value of your time ($100/hr). Explain you would like to solve this amicably.
If they respond - you win!
If they don't, then take the letter to a judge and get a judgement against them.
If they show up - you win!
If they don't, You also win!
File the appropriate paperwork to the court and let them know you intend to place a lean on the companies assets.
Now, write Tucows/e-Nom a letter explaining that you have a court order to liquidate their assets.
Ask if the account is in good standing and if it has any values (your attorney will be able to put this into legalease for you)
If it doesn't -- hire a company to seize and sell their reseller account and liquidate their assets, then you buy it on eBay! Whoohoo! Now you get your domain back and you've got your own registrar. Hurray!
ps> if all this seems like too much work, then try finding another tucows reseller who can contact somebody at tucows to get the domain transferred to them. Tucows sucks, but they suck less if you're a reseller.
"In print it's liable..." ...uh, yeah....liable to be considered libel.
The BBB says that Jump Domain has an unsatisfactory record due to unanswered complaints. It lists the contact information as follows:
Jump Domain
740 W 40 Hwy Ste 197
Blue Springs, MO 64015
Telephone: (816) 550-2376
Fax: (816) 550-2376
If any readers live near Blue Springs, perhaps they would be kind enough to go knock on Jump Domain's door and see if anybody's there.
I've heard about more than one incident of people handing over a domain at the threat of litigation even when they know they're in the right simply because it would be necessary to hire lawyers either way and a cost-benefit analysis yields that they should just bend over and give up. The 2600 guys have had plenty of experience down this path. Have there been cases where people have counter-sued for being, I don't know the word -- extored, blackmailed, whatever -- in a situation where someone with a lot of cash muscles the other side into folding simply because they know the other side has neither the money nor, in other cases, the political capital to defend themselves?
Parenthetically, I like the UK's system in which the plaintiff has to pay the defendant's legal bills if the suit loses. We should do that.
Repost of my two replies regarding this topic at DNForum.com:
... Jump Domain postal address, even in their corporate filings, is a MailBoxes, Etc. maildrop - 790 W. 40 HWY #197, BLUE SPRINGS MO 64015.
... agent is listed as Scott Ison.
p .a sp?621690
... contact Tucows and explain you want to transfer them out - either to another registrar, or at minimum, to another Tucows reseller so that you can administer your domains - no matter what Tucows tells you, get your domains away from Jump Domain.
... use the phone and tie up their staff - that way Tucows is forced to deal with the problem as opposed to putting it off indefinitely.
... or perhaps Tucows too, since some of his domains could be registered through other registrars - certainly a possibility given what I've learned so far about Jump Domain. ...
.com / .net registry/ .org registry
Firstly, you're dealing with a seemingly shady company
Worse, the agent name may be bogus (or perhaps is a partial name [ie. middle and last])
https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Cor
With that said, Jump Domain does not appear to be an accredited registrar - your domains are very likely actually registered with Tucows
Become a real pest, if that's what it takes, and *call* Tucows a lot - hopefully their customer support will help you the first time, but sometimes persistance is how these things get solved - try email, etc first, but if no adequate response
Tucows Inc.
96 MOWAT AVENUE
Toronto, Ontario M6K 3M1
Canada
416 535 0123
support@opensrs.org
** Follow-up/addendum to my above reply **
My bad on the registrar - I based my answer on searching I did on Jump Domain.
Still, the approach should be the same, just that he'll need to deal with Enom
One point I didn't make clear is even if Jump Domain is no longer affiliated with Tucows, that does NOT mean the domains they managed automatically moved from Tucows; they're still likely there - in a nutshell, the registrant will need to check the registrar of record for each domain at the links below:
http://registrar.verisign-grs.com/whois
http://www.pir.org/
Ron
Data Center:
Lee's Summit, MO
Note: For security reasons, we cannot disclose it's exact address.
Now of course, anyone who knows Lee's Summit (I used to live there, still pass through it regularly) thinks of this place, an old AT&T plant, now turned over to a number of smaller businesses. Note: I'm of course not suggesting anything happen here, as I have friends and family working in that building (no, none for jumpdomain, if you must know).
Now, I know a "data center" can also mean just a small office with a bunch of machines shoved into it, but despite that city's recent growth, I still don't know of any major location for a data center to live in Lee's Summit. If it's not there, then fine... keep the address quiet, fully understandable. However, if it *is* there, then their obfuscation is sort of like saying "I've hidden it in a 100 foot tall green statue of a woman in NYC, but I'm not telling you what it is, for security reasons" - sort of pointless.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I would hope that Icann would jump in and help out even if he is a little guy. I mean that's what they exist for right?
No, it's not. From the linked page, "ICANN does not resolve individual customer complaints".
You could see if they will let you register jumpdomainsucks.com; perhaps that will encourage them to fix the problem?
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Because the moderators are either:
+5, Optimistic
or
-5, Naive
I used to have an account with Namezero. I tried many times to contact them, with no avail. They never answered any of my questions (through their website) or replied to any of my emails. I did a whois lookup on them to get a number and called them on that number. There were no returned called. I eventually just ended up saying "fuck you" to them and went with network solutions. I got them to transfer my stuff over to them because Namezero actually used to be a reseller or something for network solutions and I actually ended up with them because I had no one else to get in touch with. They went ahead and transferred me. A few weeks after the transfer a representative from Namezero contacted me apologizing profusely and saying that I should come back to them and that they would provide better service. In addition to reporting them to the better business bureau, I told them to fuck off. The best thing to do is just go with someone else AND report them.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
The data center is here
All your Sybase are belong to us.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
registrars.
Who the hell even had the power to create a lease/lien situation on domains for these entities?
It is now time to change by FORCE the model in which site name registrants own and control their names.
For example, motorists in NO WAY surrender ownership of their to a toll booth operator when their car breaks down or runs out of gas on the road. The vehicle has a license, and it is allocated, issued, and annually or every two years checked by a DMV.
For registrars to have a mafioso grip on domain names is insane, thievery, and unctuous. It ought to be ILLEGAL for a registrar to take the name of a defunct site operator or to sell it.
However, the registrars will cry foul, and will also say they invest time, energy, research, and other resources into setting up and activating domains for users. Well, to me, that's no justification for locking an account.
But, this BS stance can be alleviated simply by charging the applicant/registrant $10 more for an insurance fee that their domain will NEVER be locked, blocked, or obstructed and that the registrant can change to any registrar at any time, without any DNS-excusing mumbo-jumbo.
Registrars should be forced to operate under a "toll road analogy" in which derelict or broken-down or abandoned vehicles (sites/domains) are tagged, warned, then towed, but NOT owned by the registrar. However, as is typical in modern corruption, sometimes tow companies are as unctuous as rogue and self-serving policy makers can be. SO, we need an electronic grave yard or tow yard which the site's owner can come to reclaim their site. SO, the boneyard/graveyard/towyards also are prohibited, under this model, from hijacking and extorting or bulk-selling off domain names.
Yet, there IS the problem of cybersquatters and of those who don't in timely fashion reasonably respond to questions by other companies and domain holders about potential infringement of name or likeness. If people would be more reasonable about being a "player in the field" instead of impeding competitors who are doing a legitimate, fair job of competing, and if instead of unfairly sidling up to a domain name for unfair purposes people would cease or desist their acts, the registrars would by default be rightfully stripped of some of the inexplicable and far-ranging powers they wield over domain holders.
I would propose that anyone registering for a domain would need to show intent or proof to use the domain imminently (as in under 10 to 20 days time). If they need more time, they could PARK the domain, provided it is for marketing or tactical reasons and not for mere cybersquatting or extortion purposes.
I would propose that the domain contact details require that an identifiable person be physically cataloged if that person can appear before a local office. Otherwise, the business or non-profit or research entity registering a domain should be electronically tied to a city, county, state or federal employer/business registry. This would make it possible for legit companies to establish fair-play appearances.
Individuals, or entities not actually doing business but intending to later convert to profit or non-profit business status, such as bloggers, certain reporters, and information sites should be required to personally register the domain via some utility-like office in their community (unless facial anonymity is a paramount requirement, in the case of authors or publishers of factual but contentious/controversial intellectual material/stories).
That said, some measures may make my above suggestions irrelevant or partially covered. But, there also needs to be an implemented method to deter individuals and business or marketing entities from just making up and registering a warchest/ database of names that never get used, never get surrendered, and clog up the domain registration systems. Maybe an activity counter (possibly Google could do this but ONLY for a country in which that government ALLOWS Google to do this:) to in
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Sue them. That is why we have the Goverment. You don't need a lawyer. Just take some time off, go to the local circuit court, fill out the paper work and figure out what your damages are. Put it at something reasonable like $500. If they even bother to show up, just present your paperwork and some screenshots of what your website looked like. The judge will likely find in your favor and you can move on. If he doesn't then who cares? They would have a HUGE legal bill fighting a $500 complaint.
Offer to settle out of court first, give them time to respond to your complaint (30 days is normal) then submit the paperwork. Its a simple civil process.
Why are people on Slashdot so afraid of exercising their rights and using the courts to protect them? That is what they are there for.
Considering I'd all but exhausted all the other options, yes, getting it out on Slashdot was actually an intentional plan. It also worked, though not with JD itself.
.com domains were unlocked, including the expired one. Under eNom's system, an expired domain that is not in hold or lock, can be transferred. Thus, provided these transfers go through, I get everything back.
On calling again, I was able to talk with eNom's Transfers and Registration Manager, whom actually connected my story as related over the phone, to this article. Imagine that! I was provided EPP codes, and my
Jump Domain doesn't get their credibility back, but I still win. Hah.
I live in Blue Springs. The 740 W 40 Hwy address is a UPS Store (was a Mailboxes Etc.) I can't remember what is at 1700 W 40 Hwy. This search shows several businesses in the plaza. No Jump Domain is listed.o usenumber=1700&street=W+40+Hwy&city_zip=64015&stat e_id=MO
http://www.411.com/10668/search/Reverse_Address?h
I can drive by tomorrow.
Jumpdomain is my former registrar. I too lost a domain to Scott Ison's bullshit. he runs Jumpdomain himself, as an easy way to make cash. it's an easy way to watch cash roll in because he does not perform any support for the domains he sells.
anyway, if you have a problem with his policies, you should call his home phone number: (816) 228 - 1901. his home address is unlisted but he lives in Blue Springs, MO.
sorry to post this anonymously, but Scott Ison is also a lawyer.
I am *JUST* *NOW* managing to get my last five domains away from jumpdomain after a 6 month process. I'll post the messages I've sent at the end, but I'll give you a quick run down now.
- I tried contacting jumpdomain many times via many different methods, including email, filing problem reports and phoning. Every such attempt failed to reach a human. The problem reports were never responded to and eventually they were deleted.
- I have filed a complaint with internic earlier this year. It didn't do any good.
- The contact point for eNom on the internic website is an email address that now bounces and used to go into a black hole.
- I have *JUST* *TODAY* gotten good response to transfers@enom.com. Jason Cluphf was most helpful.
- I had problems contacting tucows also, but fortunately the domains that I registered via jumpdomain that ended up at tucows were all
.com and .net, and there is a new rule that by default, the transfers have to go through. The domains that I had with jumpdomain/enom were .org domains.
Ok, the following is an email that I've sent in various forms to about a dozen different emails over the last 4 months.To: matt@enom.com, transfers@enom.com, abuse@enom.com
Subject: I am having problems with your reseller, jumpdomain.com
From: wayne
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:05:17 -0500
Message-ID:
Help!
I got your email address from http://www.internic.net/registrars/registrar-48.ht ml
Your eNom reseller, jumpdomain.com, appears to have dropped off the face of the earth. I have been using jumpdomain.com since the mid 90's, but now I'm having big problems with them.
I need auth codes to transfer the following domains: elgin-watches.org elginwatch.org libspf2.org trusted-forwarder.org
This is the second time this year I've tried to transfer these domains away from you and your reseller. The last time, I not only didn't get any response from your reseller, but I didn't get any response from you and the transfer timed out.
I *WAS* able to transfer my .com domains away from you last January
because when you didn't respond, the transfer went through by
default. Unfortunately, there is no such policy for .org domains
(yet).
*** PLEASE DO SOMETHING ***
On Oct 2, 2004, I renewed several domains, including elginwatches.org. All the other domains went through fine, but elginwatches.org remained in a "Pending" status. I didn't notice this until late Oct, but that wasn't a problem elginwatches.org didn't come up for renewal until Jan 11, 2005.
On Nov 10, the domain still hadn't finished the renewal process, so I filed a trouble ticket with jumpdomain's support system. Nothing happened, but hey, there was still a couple of months. On Dec 02, I updated the trouble ticket pointing out that this needed to be fixed, but still nothing. No response from jumpdomain, and elginwatches.org was still "pending".
On Dec 8, I still had no response from jumpdomain, so I filed another trouble ticket with a higher priority. On Dec 11, I got a 30-day warning about my From jumpdomain that and I replied to that message, filing another trouble ticket. Still no response.
Unfortunately, I was busy during the holidays and didn't file another bug report until early Jan. A couple of days later, I notice that the bug report hadn't shown up, so I filed another one on Jan 8, this time marked as "urgent." I tried calling the Jumpdomain support line, even though they said that for domain registration, I was only supposed to use the web forms. Even during their limited support hours, I never was able to reach anyone.
On Jan 10, I tried transfering my domains away from jumpdomain, but I am unable to complete the transaction because I can't get the "auth codes". Jumpdomain has no place on the their website to request them, and they haven't responded to my request for them via their web support system.
I have continued to try and contact jumpdomain.com, but have still had zero luck getting *any* response from them.
SPF support for most open source mail servers can be found at libspf2.
Truth is a 100% defense against charges of slander and libel. I can't speak for the submitter, but I am very willing to testify in court that almost the exact thing has happened with me and jumpdomain.
See this slashdot post for more details of my case.
SPF support for most open source mail servers can be found at libspf2.
SCOTT A ISON (Born Sep 1973)
400 JOY CT
BLUE SPRINGS, MO 64014-3980
I was also able to turn up another phone number for him: (816) 228-1998. No idea if it works, though. A reverse directory lookup shows that that number is for Jump Domain, LLC.
Dear Scott: This info was retrieved from the public records. Your privacy was not violated in any way shape or form. Have a nice day.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent