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IBM Says its Future is in Services, Not Goods

TFGeditor writes "An article at Technology Review quotes IBM exec Paul Horn saying that the company's business model is shifting from goods and products to software and services. From the article: 'Horn's challenge, then, has been to take a $6 billion research organization dedicated to work that advances technology products and get it to do work that benefits service businesses. IBM is thus in the process of answering an important question for all technology companies: can corporations perform useful research in the services arena?'"

52 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. Service Unavailable?? by mr_don't · · Score: 5, Funny
    When I clicked on the link it said:

    Service Unavailable

    1. Re:Service Unavailable?? by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, obviously they didn't send the good ones to you. I'm an IBM consultant and I would have eaten YOUR lunch and charged you for it too.

      Eating their own lunch? I am shocked, because there's no money in that.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    2. Re:Service Unavailable?? by Usquebaugh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We still use Notes in a worldwide corporation that has over 25,000 seats.

      We use ZOS, OS/400 & AIX and have done so for the last 10+ years, with no downtime caused by OS failure. In fact I can only remember one outgage caused by these servers, somebody ignored some disk pack erorrs when they should have called the engineer for a replacement. Needless to say said person was lucky to keep their job and was on probabtion for 6 months.

      We use DB/2 and have never ever lost a record or had any downtime caused by DBMS failure.

      We use MQSeries and have never ever lost a transaction or had down time caused by messaging software fail.

      So prehaps you might wish to think a little larger when looking at IBM software. In fact it's hard to think of another company which provides such high quality enterprise software. The downside is cost measured in many many $$$$.

  2. Necessity by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As products mature, it becomes more and more difficult to diferentiate yourself from your competitors. That translates to lower profit margins. IBM is simply recognizing that. The question becomes, will their services fall into the same trap? Or can they continue to specialize and keep profit margins up.

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  3. Re:Nothing to see by toddbu · · Score: 2, Funny

    I got a "Service Unavailable" message. Doesn't bode well for their future.

    --
    If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
  4. They're only half right by CSMastermind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They do have a valuable point but the reason services will be so big in the future is because right now they haven't truly been explored. Most natural service markets can't exist without a goods market to back them up so in this regard they're worng. There will still be a strong goods market, it just won't be as fast growing as the services market.

    1. Re:They're only half right by Master_T · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What I understand of it he may be right. As labor continues to move overseas due to cheap cost of operation there, we will need to fill gaps of employment. Economist have been theorizing for awhile now that America will become an almost completely service based economy. There are some who believe that we will be able to support ourselves on an economy of services. I do not know all the details of how that works, but the article seems to be pointing in that sort of direction. at least for IBM.

      Sure I mean I think we will always farm and always need some production to trade against but otherwise, couldn't we even traffic in some services?

    2. Re:They're only half right by CSMastermind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Farming in America is a perfectly competitive market, meaning that sale prices between firms naturally balance themselves out. To ensure added stability the US has many controls and regulations in place to mantain price levels. For the most part it's not worth it to ship food in from outside the US that can be grown at home and it's also not worth it for us to ship farm products elsewhere because anybody with the money to buy it doesn't need it. That's why millions of pounds of food is destroyed each year by the US when there are people starving across the world. It's not because we don't have to food to feed them, it's because it would cost too much to feed them.

  5. differences? by grumpyman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I feel that in IT, in most cases, services are the goods.

  6. What about this question? by slapout · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who's going to do R&D and develop new products? Seems like everyone is getting out of the development business and going into the patent holding/suing one.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    1. Re:What about this question? by C.+Mattix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      From IBM's standpoint they are getting R&D for free from the open source community. That is where much of the new products are getting produced.

    2. Re:What about this question? by stubear · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IBM is getting development from the open source community but I really don't see much research happening. I'm guessing IBM would have to provide that half of the equation.

  7. Not too surprising by HMA2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unless IBM wants to focus on competing with the ever growing chinense and other low cost manufactures they have no choice but to get out of hardware. Hardware is becoming increasingly commoditized and that means it will become a very difficult business to carve out a living in.

    Not to mention IBM has some incredible hardware and software people on staff that would be far better employed helping those with problems in a consulting role.

    1. Re:Not too surprising by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Interesting

      " Unless IBM wants to focus on competing with the ever growing chinense and other low cost manufactures they have no choice but to get out of hardware."
      That is only the Intel/AMD market. How much value added can you do with the Intel/AMD platform? They all have sound. They all have IDE and now SATA. They all have USB. You may be snazzy and add Firewire. Now in the PowerPC market IBM can add value. Look at the Cell, G5, and Power series. IBM simply does not want to be a me too company selling cheap PCs anymore.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  8. New news? by op12 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is this really new information? Those IBM ads for their consulting services have been on for a long time now, and the more recent commercials even tout these services as the new (side of) IBM.

    1. Re:New news? by Michalson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod parent up. IBM has always been a service company. The hardware and software they sell is/was nothing but a vehicle for expensive long term service contracts. While they made a profit on that server they sold you, the real bread and butter was that extended warrenty they convinced you to add on. It's the main reason IBM never liked the home PC market, you just couldn't take customers out to play a round of golf while getting them to sign up for a bunch of service plans. Instead customers bought the hardware and went home, and those that actually used IBM's support expected to get it for free (the utter irony being that because their PC project was literally put down in the basement it resulted in an off the shelf design anyone could copy, leading the "IBM PC" to become the industry leader).

  9. They're just announcing this? by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hasn't IBM been earning more than half its revenues from services for over a decade? And they're just getting around to announcing it now?

    More news: Microsoft has announced they're going to be a software company. GM is showing some interest in making cars. Walmart is going to start selling stuff.

    --
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    1. Re:They're just announcing this? by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, they sent out the annoucement a couple of years ago. It just happened to make its way out of the Lotus Notes server today...

      --
      Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    2. Re:They're just announcing this? by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > GM is showing some interest in making cars.

      It's true that they make lots of cars, but that's not where their money is. GM's automotive division actually loses money, and did so even before the current troubles. GM's profitable division is the GMAC financing arm. Operationally speaking, GM is actually a bank.

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
  10. Yeah, right by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With billions invested in chip fabrication, they're not going to be abandoning that business anytime soon. With their name recognition in other hardware sectors, they're not going to abandon those markets anytime soon. Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when someone says "software," is IBM one of the first things you think of? I could imagine EXPANDING into software and services alongside hardware, but then we're back in the 90s selling "solutions".

    --
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    Africus aut Europaeus?
    1. Re:Yeah, right by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >> when someone says "software," is IBM one of the first things you think of?

      When someone says "IBM software", I pause, look at my email client on the other monitor (Lotus Notes), and begin to cry...

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    2. Re:Yeah, right by powerlinekid · · Score: 2, Informative

      IBM is actually the largest software developer in the world. Difference is that its mostly internal stuff (damn near everything here is IBM made).

      --

      can't sleep slashdot will eat me
  11. Technology "review" is right... by Skyshadow · · Score: 4, Interesting
    IBM has been pursuing this for a couple of years now. I mean sure, their consultants pushed their own technology, but they were always willing to push it to the side in a heartbeat if they thought it would get them a single penny more. The fact that this is news in 2005 is a little bizarre.

    Of course, if IBM has decided to full-on push their consultants, it might help them to find a few who aren't complete morons. Based on my experience, IBM is well on their way to becoming the new Anderson.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
  12. Don't RTFA... Spyware... by profet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Gotta love the spyware contained in the article.

    Avenue, A Inc. Whatever that is.

    1. Re:Don't RTFA... Spyware... by kawika · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you don't know what Avenue A is, how do you know it's spyware? Perhaps you are mistaking a cookie for spyware?

  13. Bill Gates... by Jinsaku · · Score: 2, Funny

    ..only beat IBM to this decision by about 25 years.

    --
    -- Jinsaku
  14. Google! by xiphoris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Google has been conducting its research extensively in the services area. Google labs contains a plethora of useful services Google's researching, with new ones coming almost every month. A few ones that interested me: Google sets allows users to enter a few items (apple, banana, orange) and Google will find more from that set (pear, kiwi). Google ride finder allows you to find taxis and limousines by tracking their positions in realtime. All of these services are available to the public so Google can get feedback on their "research".

  15. International Business MACHINES by DesScorp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    IBM is fast becoming a company that doesn't actually make anything, and this pretty much confirms that. And that's pretty sad, being that this company pretty much invented computing for the the business sector, and brought personal computing to the general public.

    They're making lots of cash right now, but one day, perhaps sooner than they think, this approach is going to come back and bite them in the ass. And then there might not be an IBM.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:International Business MACHINES by noisymime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      out of interest how exactly is this going to bite them in the ass?
      When a company sets their IT infrastructure they buy x amount of servers. And then the income for IBM stops.
      If a company requires 24x7 service then they sign a contract and keep paying IBM continually for years...

    2. Re:International Business MACHINES by nacturation · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And, in other news, the 3M (Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing) Corporation announces that it doesn't really do much mining these days either.

      --
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  16. A reaction to Jack Welch leaving GE? by The-Perl-CD-Bookshel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think that this is a good move by IBM because after Jack Welch left GE there are some doubts about GE as a consulting firm. IBM could jump in and push technology (to help processes and quality) over restructuring and quality focus seminars as the panacea for a company's problems.

    Also, if anyone watched the Masters golf tournament they saw at least 10 commercials for IBMs consulting services. After seeing them buy up all of that expensive advertising time the conclusion is simple: IBM believes that services are the future and they are getting a jump on the competiton with advertising dollars, marketing generalizations and dare I say "slashvertising."

    --
    I don't keep a lid on my coffee so when I walk around I look busy -me
  17. IBM Global Services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I recall been told some years back (around 2000 give or take) that for a long time IBM Global Services was the only division that was profitable on a consistent basis. Even back then the writing was on the wall for the PC group (which had not shown *ANY* profit for years before, and up till its sale was still unprofitable.)

  18. They should follow GM ;) by TheNarrator · · Score: 3, Insightful
    GM learned long ago that making physical stuff is a pain in the rear because of unions and pension obligations and became a mortgage lenders (GMAC) that makes cars as a hobby.

    http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/reality/2 004/november.html

    GM's total revenues were $185.5 billion with a corresponding net income of $3.8 billion. However, only $1 billion of this net income came from automotive sales. The $2.8 billion balance came from financing and insurance operations (including mortgage lending). In other words, only 26.3% of General Motors' net income came from automotive sales. Clearly, GM has become a financial services company (that happens to also manufacture automobiles) and its future success is directly linked to its ability to compete in the financial services industry. After all, America now has a finance/debt-based economy.
    1. Re:They should follow GM ;) by Some+Pig! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just in case doesn't get the joke behind that ";)" in the thread title, GM bonds are about to be downgraded to junk.

      http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0425/112.html

  19. IBM? by MrVictor · · Score: 3, Funny

    It seems that they should consider changing their name to IBSS - International Business Software Services

  20. Linux's entry into the mid-market by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As much as U.S. IT folks hate outsourcing (actually it's offshoring that they dislike), it is a way for Linux to penetrate those mid-sized business that don't have the IT to handle OSS themselves. If a mid-sized company outsources customer care, finance & accounting, HR, etc. , then they don't care about the "source" of the underlying software at the provider as long as the service provider does a good job at a decent price. I would suspect that some outsourcing service providers -- IBM certainly -- leverage Linux for its low-cost per seat and economies once you have the scale to support it. The rapidly growing outsourcing providers also offer a greenfield opportunity for Linux -- if you are starting an outsourcing company from scratch then you have the opportunity to pick whichever OS works best without as much an issue of retraining and entrenched workforce.

    Once Linux builds up a competent portfolio of business software (some outsourcing service providers also sell their software), that software will attract non-outsourcing businesses to Linux

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  21. International Business Knowledge. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "IBM is fast becoming a company that doesn't actually make anything, and this pretty much confirms that."

    Welcome to Alan Toffler's "Idea Economy". Forseen over twenty years ago. The only problem is that the nature of the "commodity" means that people respect "Knowledge"* and the products of knowledge (IP)*1 even less than they do physical goods.

    *See previous "/." stories on universities, and the glorification of not knowing the subject matter.

    *1 See stories on copyright and patents, let alone trade secrets (Apple).

  22. Everything Real and Tangible will be in Asia by mslinux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One day, America will be a big 'service economy' where we:

    a) Produce Nothing.

    b) Consume Everything.

    c) Print lots and lots of worthless dollar bills.

    1. Re:Everything Real and Tangible will be in Asia by razmaspaz · · Score: 4, Informative

      a) Produce Nothing.

      If we could only get rid of farm subsidies we would be doing this already.

      b) Consume Everything.

      Except the services we sell to all the other countries who have no clue how to efficiently produce their goods., build their power plants, feed their ever growing populations, and cure their sick. We currently have the best university system available (with the exception of possibly England - but theirs is not as widely avaliable) and that translates into the best educated country in the world. Which translates into valuable services. And I would much rather live in a country full of doctors and biologists and engineers than a country of assembly line workers and farmers. The aforementioned jobs all translate to a higher quality of life.

      c) Print lots and lots of worthless dollar bills.

      Is a dollar bill worth anything right now anyway? It is just good faith and the accepted exchangable value.

      --
      I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
    2. Re:Everything Real and Tangible will be in Asia by John+Newman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Cool web site. I'll see your statistic and raise you a more relevant one: rate of enrollment in tertiary education.

      I think there's a general consensus that American higher education (undergraduate, postgraduate, and professional) is still the class of the world. Both its quality and its accessibility to outsiders play a role. When American, European, Asian, and African students all start flooding into the burgeoning universities of India, China, France, or wherever else, that consensus will change. But the global brain drain is still real, and unidirectional.

    3. Re:Everything Real and Tangible will be in Asia by fbg111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except the services we sell to all the other countries who have no clue how to efficiently produce their goods., build their power plants, feed their ever growing populations, and cure their sick.

      And once they learn how to do all that stuff, what will they need us for? Or do you think they'll never catch up?

      We currently have the best university system available

      That depends on government funding for research, funding which is being cut across the board left and right these days. DARPA, NSF, etc, are all cutting funding, especially for pure university-based research which is the most crucial in maintaining America's long-term technological leadership, academic quality, and even tax base that is required for additional funding. Without pure research, technological advancement and the steady stream of neato gadgets we take for granted will dry up.

      and that translates into the best educated country in the world.

      Sure, that's why American students are always at the top of every published academic ranking and consistently win international contests. I won't bother to link to the recent /. stories on this.

      Which translates into valuable services.

      An economy can't survive on services alone. There is only one way of creating wealth, and that is by taking raw materials and applying work and ingenuity to turn them into something worth more than the sum of their parts. We used to do take wood and iron and turn it into ships and trains; now we take sand, aluminum, and copper and turn it into microchips. Voila, wealth is created. At best services allow you to ween a little more value out of the products you've created, especially if you see custom software (eg IT consulting) as an enabler of hardware, or something that helps you get more value out of your hardware. At worst, services are simply a wealth transfer, with no additional wealth created at all.

      Don't buy into the malarky that America can prosper as we have without actually making anything. As funding is diverted from pure research to military expeditions and whatnot we undermine our base of future product innovation and development, while China learns our manufacturing techniques through outsourcing and educates hundreds of thousands of engineers and scientists in our universities, who are capable of bringing their education, research, and innovativeness home and away from the US.

      As American CEO's sometimes cannibalize their companies' future for immediate stock price gains and golden parachutes, so our recent presidents, CEO's, and financiers seem to be doing to our entire country.

      --
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    4. Re:Everything Real and Tangible will be in Asia by razmaspaz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Whoa... wait a second. Isn't efficient production of goods *the whole point* of outsourcing? I know you don't mean to say Taiwan doesn't know how to produce electronics efficiently or Japan doesn't know how to produce cars efficiently do you?

      What I mean to say is that Taiwan is efficient at producing electronics because American companies created the processes to efficiently create those electronics.

      Well, you have me there. We are the bread basket of the world here in America... though that might have something to do with those farm subsidies.

      I mean that we are the leading developer of geneticly engineered seeds and plants that would make growing plants in Africa possible. if you eliminated the subsidies from the US, then Africa, India and China would all be able to compete with the US in Food Production. (See below for why this is important)

      Besides, farming and factory work is as much an honest days work as setting a bone or designing a wing that is 0.3% more efficient that the one we had last year. Is a profession less noble when it doesn't require a university degree? I don't think so. Furthermore, I think it's condescending and snobbish to suggest otherwise.

      Hey now. Lets not go putting words into my mouth. My inlaws grew up on farms and I am humbled every time I meet someone who works 16 hours a day to feed their family. That said, working in a service profession almost always translates to more free time and a higher salary (the major components in any quality of life measurement)

      Now for the importance of a global food market. This is going out on a limb, but I really believe it is true. If we eliminated US farming subsidies and allowed farmers to get a fair price for their crops at the market, we would eliminate a large part of the world's poverty. I think you would find that most economists would agree with this statement. Because many terrorism experts would tell you that poverty is one of the major friends of terrorism recruitment, I think eliminating farm subsidies would solve a large part of the worlds terrorism problems by drying up the channels of young, poor men.

      Now I know...I just said farmers who want subsidies are terrorists. And that is ABSOLUTELY not true, but that's my argument and I'm sticking to it.

      --
      I tried for 5 years to come up with a clever sig...only to realize that I am not clever.
  23. short term by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    IBM always was a goods+services company. You were not buying a bar code reader as part of how you would monitor inventory you were buying a big-blue inventory control system and if the best method for you was a bar ocde reader that's what IBM would implement for you. IBM sold instances of objects not function calls.

    For IBM slightly higher Short term profits are indeed in services. since much hardware these days is commoditized.

    The only reason IBM could get away with just repackaging commondity software and hardware is because they have no competition for innovation. They can just innovate in services and not worry.

    But what is IBM going to do when some other company say toshiba decides to sell goods_services and some toshiba engineer invents a holographic terrabyte on a chip memory and they wont sell it to IBM. IBM is giving up its 100 year formula for why people by IBM. IBM means you have an assured path to the best service and hardware. Long term profits are in goods+services.

    as the parent poster implied. This sounds like what happened to ATT and HP.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  24. Capability & Maturity Model research could ben by MarkEst1973 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    My company is currently going through CMM Level 2. I can't tell you how much evangelizing I've done regarding standard processes.

    The cost of building custom applications needs to drop dramatically. Standardizing how they are built is one step towards this goal. Further research into this can also reduce the cost.

    Very competitive bids can be made by a service organization when their cost to produce the service is low, whether that service is network maintenance, custom application design, or what have you.

    At least that works on the small scale of our consulting company with a few million in revenue. I should imagine such a thing would scale to a larger company and make them even more competitive.

  25. Re:Necessity -- IBM is in last place by G4from128k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wish them luck, but they have a ways to go. This Information Week survey ranked IBM last among the top 12 big outsourcing service providers. The article suggests that IBM's customers are not that happy with the service yet.

    With IBMs large resources and historical expertise in service, they may be able to turn it around. We shall see.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  26. They might be closer to all right by qortra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do you claim service markets can't exist without a goods market? More and more, people have all the technology they need to have pretty much every type of content (interactive or not) delivered to their home without the need for physical goods. This means that education, news, entertainment, communication, and most business can be done over the internet.

    But honestly, I'm asking, why does there need to be a substantial goods market to back up these services (given that many people already have the technology to do all these things)?

  27. OpenSource forces even M$ to Services? by rewinn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Open-Source may help drive even the biggest software company toward a service model, by putting downward pressure on the market-determined price of software licenses.

    A Seattle Times review of Microsoft's Linux lab boss ends with a comment by IDC's Al Gillen: "...open-source software is going to help drive the acquisition cost of software down toward zero," he [Gillen] said, a shift that will require software companies to move "over to a maintenance and support model."

    "Pluged in to Microsoft's biggest rival" - Seattle Times (May require no-cost signup to view.)

  28. Communicating = Reading Slashdot by PineHall · · Score: 3, Funny

    Meanwhile, Maglio began to investigate what systems administrators actually do. He found that they spent between 60 and 90 percent of their time communicating with other systems administrators about systems issues.

    Whew! I am glad that they equate reading Slashdot with communicating.

  29. New Standards by bstadil · · Score: 2, Interesting
    IBM is perfectly positioned to be the champion of new notably middleware standards.

    They can expand their R&D and with no real axe to grind they can secure that new and needed standards gets approvel quicker. Their interest is the quality of the standard that they can then offer their clients as a new service.

    Take a look here and you will get a good feel for the Future IBM

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
  30. A Nation of Salesmen by pjkundert · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As long as IBM continues to Create, rather than simply Vend, they will be OK. Unfortunately, (as HP discovered), it is very difficult to not lose one's technical edge, when ones corporation is run by a bunch of stuffed shirts...

    An excerpt from A Nation of Salesmen, by Earl Shorris:

    I saw that selling, in all its forms, has achieved dominion over the world in our time, not only determining the economic spirit of the nation but deeply affecting its social, political, cultural, and moral life. I saw that America has become the land of the salesman, Homo vendens, who is both dangerous and afflicted.

    Under the dominion of Homo vendens, we are no longer free to know the world. The salesman now informs us. In the mix of mind and matter that is perception, the information comes not from our senses encountering reality but from the salesman. Thus we have lost the world.

    --
    -- -pjk Perry Kundert perry@kundert.ca http://kundert.2y.net
  31. IBM Says its Future is in Services, Not Goods by TechnoGrl · · Score: 4, Funny

    TRANSLATION: We've fired so many of our development team in order to increase compensation for our highest level execs that we can no longer be innovative so we're going to "market" bullsh*t ideas as "value added services".

    Pax Requiem IBM

    --
    ----- In Your Cubicle No One Can Hear You Scream...
  32. History repeats itself by vanyel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does anyone remember Control Data Corporation? Used to be, a long time ago, there were two main players in computers: IBM handled business and CDC handled scientific computing, with some gnats flying around, though DEC was more of a dragonfly ;-). The world changed, however, and CDC waned in the 80's. Their spin: "We're going to go into services, not hardware". I think they're a vague memory in the absorption history of another company now (Hmmm. I guess not quite so vague, but I've not heard them mentioned anywhere in ages: CDC Wikipedia entry)

    Amusingly, COBOL programming on a CDC Cyber put me through college. When I was about to graduate (81) and doing the interview thing, I'd been put in touch with a head hunter that specialized in finding positions for Cyber programmers. I went to an interview in Dallas, TX, and although it went well, when I came back, I said "no, I want to work with microcomputers, not mainframes." I got the classic "there's no future there" response. I've always wondered what became of her...