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Small but Mighty:The Bricolage Story

Posted by timothy on from the now-there's-an-ecosystem dept.

SilentBob4 writes "Bricolage is an example of the power of an open source project to survive its proprietary origins. As you will read below, Bricolage was originally started in-house by Salon magazine, and then open sourced by About.com. I imagined how very frustrated David Wheeler, a Salon employee, would have been had he been forced to watch the code he helped develop just die on the shelf. Never underestimate the strength of the human passion to create, and to see one's creations bloom in the light of day." The full story is at Mad Penguin."

95 comments

  1. Cute... by Svippy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Another one of those great small stories.

    If it wasn't because I was inhuman, I would cry of happiness. :)

    --
    Clicked pie.
    1. Re:Cute... by CloudDrakken · · Score: 2, Funny

      sounds like somebody's got a case of the mon---thursdays Open source is a fad that we can't grow out of

    2. Re:Cute... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheer up. At least you got first post.

  2. Success is customer driven by winkydink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is the biggest stumbling block to most OSS software. Developers dont get it that if they want to make a living off it they have to be customer-focused. Wheeler clearly understands this.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Success is customer driven by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dunno, my approach so far has been to shout at customers, poke them with sticks and let them know that they aren't smart enough to know what they want.
      It hasn't paid off yet, but any day now I'm sure it will. people respect honesty.

      even dumb people.

      --
      Starsucks
    2. Re:Success is customer driven by rovingeyes · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Developers dont get it that if they want to make a living off it they have to be customer-focused

      Very true. But there are products that are completely customer driven. In fact, we have developed a Content Management System which is completely drvien by customer demands. This product is in development for over 5 years now. It started out as a simple web based content editor for our clients' hosting. Slowly, one after the other requests started pouring in. The good thing was that the requests were incremental in nature. Now we are at a stage where we are analyzing whether this product has grown beyond its needs (it has become a hybrid between cpanel and xoops) and does it warrant to be made a product and sold?

      There lies the big problem. Our company still wants to have control over it coz 80% of our company's revenue is directly or iderectly generated by this product. So some company execs are questioning whether Open source is the right way. Couple others are saying that open source might be the only way out as there would less risk involved as bulk of the revenue off of a product is generated by support unless you have a product like SAP.

      Definitely interesting times ahead...
    3. Re:Success is customer driven by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It worked for me!

      WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO TODAY, FATSO?

      Signed,
      B. Gates

    4. Re:Success is customer driven by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i have this sudden urge to give you money. please tell me where i can buy your product. k? thx

    5. Re:Success is customer driven by cptgrudge · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I dunno, my approach so far has been to shout at customers, poke them with sticks and let them know that they aren't smart enough to know what they want.
      It hasn't paid off yet, but any day now I'm sure it will. people respect honesty.

      No, see, your problem is basically that you just have to do it with a smile and a laugh. Gain the customer's trust. Make them think that you are on their side. The thing is, people know that they aren't smart enough to know what they want. They just want someone to be able to tell them in a way that isn't condescending and makes them feel OK about it, that's all.

      But seriously, the sad part is that this is very true for quite a few people.

      --
      Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
    6. Re:Success is customer driven by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You work at Microsoft, don't you?

    7. Re:Success is customer driven by HepCatA · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hmmm, diplomacy...

      Anyone can tell you to go to Hell.

      A diplomat will make you look forward to the trip.

    8. Re:Success is customer driven by BerntB · · Score: 3, Funny
      even dumb people.
      Please use the polite and relevant term -- users.

      :-)

      Seriously, though. When I had a terrible time doing support for a program I wrote (fitting punishment), I thought that the world was made of users and supporters. Two conclusions... 1. Everyone are users of other's support and almost everyone are doing support, too. 2. All users are idiots, because we don't have time to think about things and ask instead.

      (What Saint Dogbert preaches, I guess.)

      --
      Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
    9. Re:Success is customer driven by winkydink · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean, you're a GNOME developer?

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    10. Re:Success is customer driven by winkydink · · Score: 1

      It's all about support. Do you want one-time revenue or recurring revenue? Which one requires less sales critters?

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  3. More Mad Penguin by fm6 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm glad to see that Mad Penguin finally has Slashdot-effect-resistant servers. But they still need to do better HTML -- and a lot less Javascript!

    1. Re:More Mad Penguin by MadRaVen · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Personally, I hate our CMS. We would need at least twice the ram we have now to really be stable with it.

    2. Re:More Mad Penguin by TheMadPenguin · · Score: 1

      Yes indeed! Anyone good enough with database and theme design to assist with a migration to Drupal? heh :) I'm game if we can find one. Drupal has been a personal goal of mine for some time.

      --
      Linux with kernel panic...
      MadPenguin.org
  4. Re:frist psot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    You're 5th, n00b.

  5. Derrida by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, Bricolage was started by Derrida. Coincidentally, no one's had the sense or willpower to stop it since then.

    If you don't believe me, go look it up or something.

  6. Whats Bricolage? by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bricolage is a full-featured, enterprise-class content management and publishing system. Built on Apache, the world's most robust and dependable Web server, and backed by the reliability of the ACID-compliant PostgreSQL RDBMS, Bricolage scales to meet the content management needs of the most demanding of organizations. Bricolage's intuitive browser-based interface works with any modern web browser, and lets you perform in minutes the customization and configuration tasks that other systems require hours to carry out. Furthermore, Bricolage features a fully customizable workflow environment, so that it can work the way that you work. Together with templating support built on the highly flexible and popular Perl programming language and extensive user groups and permissions, Bricolage provides an affordable yet powerful solution for your content management needs. A comprehensive, actively-developed open source CMS, Bricolage has been hailed as quite possibly the most capable enterprise-class open-source application available by eWEEK.

    An open source assortment of random buzzwords. This sounds like just the product our marketing dept has been looking for!

    Coolness, Park!

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bitch to set up, but it does kick butt. The buzz words don't mean shit to me.

    2. Re:Whats Bricolage? by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My only point was that that blurb doesn't tell me what it is.

      It's full featured, ACID compliant, templated, backwards compatible, vertically integrated, etc..

      What is it? Some sort of gameboy game?

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Bricolage is also:

      a technique where works are constructed from various materials available or on hand, and is seen as a characteristic of postmodern works.

      Taken from the Wikipedia article on the subject.

    4. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Reignking · · Score: 0

      I thought this Bricolage had something to do with the French word, meaning do-it-yourself...

      --
      One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
    5. Re:Whats Bricolage? by br0ck · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe the screenshots will give you a better idea.. I never seem to know what the heck these marketing briefs are talking about either, but as soon as I see some proper screenshots I can wrap my head around it. Like in this case where you see the screenshots and quicky see that it's just an app that help them write news stories to publish on the Web.

    6. Re:Whats Bricolage? by 0kComputer · · Score: 1

      WTF? Theres a thousand god damn javascript errors on that page. Informative though.

      --
      Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
      10.
    7. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Saganaga · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a "content management and publishing system". Seems pretty clear cut to me.

      This is the type of system used by people who have to manage a ton of documents, with workflow, version control, editorial review, etc., and then control which content goes live to a website.

      Any large news or portal type website will have some kind of content management and publishing system in place, either home grown or off the shelf.

      Content management systems are not new. My employer (Thomson West) has 20-30 year old home-grown mainframe-based systems that are used for maintaing the content for our legal research products. In the old days it was mostly book publishing, now it's increasingly web-based publishing.

    8. Re:Whats Bricolage? by youknowmewell · · Score: 1

      What's scary is that I understand what it said.

    9. Re:Whats Bricolage? by SethJohnson · · Score: 3, Informative


      My only point was that that blurb doesn't tell me what it is.

      It's full featured, ACID compliant, templated, backwards compatible, vertically integrated, etc..

      These terms make sense to people in the world of CMS's. Here is a quick rundown:
      • ACID compliant- refers to the database in the backend. It's postgreSQL, so the Salon developer didn't really do anything for the ACID compliance. This basically means it can maintain data integrity to a pretty good standard if there's a power failure or some other hardware problem.
      • Templated- This means users of the system can create a couple of different templates that define the look and feel for different sections on a website. The PERL will dynamically pull content out of the DB and plug it into the proper spots with HTML formatting applied without a human having to code HTML pages for every content item.
      • Backwards compatible- this is kind of a vague term. Probably is intended to mean that you can have a website built and then install this package and it will still be able to serve the HTML pages you had previously created. Because it's a complete webserver, though, this attribute may be affected if you had previously been using a different CMS system (like Vignette) that requires special plugins to be loaded by the webserver.
      • vertical integration- gotta scratch my head on that one. It's a business organization term. So right there, it should trigger some marketoid alarms.
      --
      $5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
    10. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Urusai · · Score: 3, Funny

      But can it leverage corporate synergy to enhance capability-oriented revenue enhancement solutions in today's fast-paced marketplace? I see that it is highly flexible, affordable yet powerful, and comprehensively provides solutions to my content management needs; but it must leverage use-case scenarios in an adaptable yet industry-leading model that features performance suitable for enterprise-class systems to be acceptible in today's fast-paced marketplace.

    11. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Random buzzwords are a sure sign that the product sucks. And I can't even begin to describe how much Bricolage sucks! My company has been using it for too long now, and one look at the database structure and bloated templating strategy would send any developer worth his salt to the emergency room. It's truly one of the worst CMS products I've ever seen. Avoid it like the plague.

    12. Re:Whats Bricolage? by DeionXxX · · Score: 1

      Ummm ... first sentence: Bricolage is a full-featured, enterprise-class content management and publishing system.

    13. Re:Whats Bricolage? by publius_ovidius · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not "just an app that help (sic) them write news stories to publish on the Web." I can see how you might can get that idea from the screenshots, but as the guy David hired to help develop the next version, I can assure you that this is not correct. When we say (pardon the buzzwords) "enterprise-class content management system", we mean it. It's "Enterprise Class" because it scales to meet the needs of large-scale content management (which can be a multimedia archive instead of text, if you prefer.) Radio Free Asia, Portugal Telecom and the Rand Corporation, and many others who need scalable products have turned to Bricolage because it handles the load.

      Further, just because it has a Web front end does not mean that it's just for the Web. We can associate the content with "output channels" that can put out any type of content that a computer can produce. You can manage a print magazine or a bank of monitors in Bricolage, if you so desire. Don't judge the product by screenshots.

    14. Re:Whats Bricolage? by mroch · · Score: 1

      These are now fixed.

    15. Re:Whats Bricolage? by JamesonTV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Damn straight! Just look at the screenshots. That's not a UI, that's a straight dump of the database. The job of the interface designer is to create a CMS which helps the user manage and publish content without having to be fluent in all the underpinnings of the system. Bricolage basically drafts every user into the role of novice database administrator.

      Praise from eWeek does more to call eWeek's judgment into question than it does to make Bricolage look good.

    16. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vertical Integration in this case means that its a single package that provides everything. Webserver, CMS, etc.

    17. Re:Whats Bricolage? by MerlinTheWizard · · Score: 1

      1. It's kinda ugly.
      2. I really wonder what the point is, there are almost hundreds of OSS "content management" projects already... all with almost the exact same set of features...

      Choice is good, but isn't this a bit too much? You know, like CMS are all the hype, so everyone wants to make their own Open Source CMS... all in all, aren't there better things to be doing?

    18. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This got modded funny? I thought he was serious...

      ---
      Anonymous PHB

    19. Re:Whats Bricolage? by urbaneassault · · Score: 2, Funny

      Radio Free Asia, Portugal Telecom and the Rand Corporation

      Wow, that's about the craziest threesome I've ever heard of!

    20. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Radio Free Asia, Portugal Telecom and the Rand Corporation, and many others who need scalable products have turned to Bricolage because it handles the load

      Including El Reg, top UK tech news site.

    21. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Syre · · Score: 4, Informative

      What Bricolage basically does is to let organizations create a document publishing workflow with various privilege domains.

      What this means is that you can sub-divide the work, and let graphic artists create the page templates, then let writers put information into the pages and submit them for publishing, then let editors review the pages and put them live.

      Each user can be set up so they have control over given functions for given sites or sub-sites, and there can be multiple levels of workflow/approval for each function.

      This is perfect for a magazine, where you want authors to be able to submit stories and editors to be able to review them without requiring either to know HTML or anyone else to later have to put the content into a template. That process is all automatic.

      It also is useful for any organization which needs to do similar activities ie: let a department manage their own sub-site, which will be formatted exactly to corporate standards without having to know HTML and with or without oversight and approval.

    22. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Theory · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the Register does not use Bricolage. You can find a reasonably comprehensive list of the sites that use Bricolage on the Bricolage Sites page.

      --Theory

    23. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Theory · · Score: 1
      all in all, aren't there better things to be doing?

      Perhaps, but I've been doing this for four years now. Read my article introducing Bricolage and comparing it to other CMS solutions to learn more about how it's different

      --Theory

    24. Re:Whats Bricolage? by nothings · · Score: 1
      It's not "clear cut" at all; "content management" is itself jargon (it's not self-defining). So is "version control", but at least most programmers know what it means already. So too is "workflow", apparently, since this thread isn't using it in the sense I'm used to (where it roughly means "the manner in which things get done", as in "Photoshop has good workflow for task A and poor workflow for task B"--it is easy and fun to do task A and annoying and hard to do task B; "having workflow", even taking that to mean "having a system that controls/manages/guides workflow", doesn't really make any sense with that meaning).

      So, say, the use of "workflow" in this "content management" context might have a meaning along the lines of "if a piece of data has to get manipulated by multiple people, a workflow system can track where the data is in that workflow (who has it now, who's responsonle for it, etc.)"; but that's entirely guesswork. Maybe it's not multiple people, it's multiple programs (but in which case I'm not sure what exactly "workflow" is other than a script to run the piece of data through multiple programs, which is not exactly noteworthy technology).

      And then "editorial review", well, obviously the program isn't doing editorial review, so I guess you mean the system is making sure the data goes through editorial review, but hey, that would be a "workflow" step in my above definition, so either I guessed wrong, or you were being redundant. I have no clue which!

      So one sentence of mostly new buzzwords, and three paragraphs of just repeating back the original buzzwords and saying "it's obvious". Dude, pas de donut.

    25. Re:Whats Bricolage? by Saganaga · · Score: 1

      Dude, I have no idea why you are so upset about this. However, let me just remind you that in any field of work there is going to be some jargon, if for no other reason than to avoid having to constantly repeat and fully explain commonly used terms. Maybe you found the terms used hard to understand, but maybe it's just because you don't have much experience in the particular field where content management is used and where those terms have specific meanings.

      And when you get right down to it, there is no such thing as a "self-defining" word, as you seem to think important. Language only has meaning because of an agreement between people to use words to represent particular concepts.

  7. Bricolage is mentioned... by tcopeland · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...in Josh Berkus' article The Five Types of Open Source Projects (site is down at the moment, so the link goes to the Google cache).

    Josh characterized Bricolage as a "solo" project, but maybe it's moving onwards...

    --
    The Army reading list
    1. Re:Bricolage is mentioned... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ach! What a day for our server to be borked.

      A Gentoo upgrade hosed glibc; PowerPostgreSQL.com will be up again by Saturday.

      --Josh Berkus

    2. Re:Bricolage is mentioned... by tcopeland · · Score: 1

      Argh, yeah, I was bummed too. Ah well...

      --
      The Army reading list
  8. Bad naming... by null+etc. · · Score: 2, Funny
    I imagined how very frustrated David Wheeler, a Salon employee, would have been had he been forced to watch the code he helped develop just die on the shelf

    It almost died on the shelf because everyone thought he was talking about a Barcalounger.

  9. For those who wonder... by El+Cabri · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bricolage is the French word for DIY, or, sometimes, hacking.

    1. Re:For those who wonder... by mroch · · Score: 4, Informative
      From the Bricolage "About" page in the application itself:

      The name Bricolage was not drawn directly from the common usage of the term in French, but rather from the first chapter of The Savage Mind, by the famed French anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss. In that famous discussion of scientific thought vs. mythical thought--of science vs. the science of the concrete--Lévi-Strauss declares, Mythical thought is therefore a kind of intellectual bricolage.

      Bricolage is the product of a bricoleur, a kind of handyman who assembles the fruits of his labors from the tools he has at hand. Similarly, mythical thought uses the extant concepts available to the cultural bricoleur to shape the world of cultural understanding. In other words, one's understanding and interpretation of the world and its events derives from assembling new interpretations based on existing cultural (Lévi-Strauss would say structural) symbols. Signs allow and even require the interposing and incorporation of a certain amount of human culture into reality, Lévi-Strauss writes. Thus signs (or symbols, as modern anthropologists are more likely to call them) are the building blocks of cultural comprehension.

      Similarly, content is assembled in the Bricolage content management system by drawing on extant elements to create a new end product. Element administrators function as Lévi-Straussian scientists, in that they create new symbols (elements) that document editorsas new media bricoleursdraw upon to assemble and manage new structures of meaning (content).

      For those who may find this explanation too much a stretch, we fall back on the meaning of the term bricolage as it is commonly used in English, rather than French. For our French users, who might see the name and immediately think big hack, note that typical English definition, according to The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, is simply, something made or put together using whatever materials happen to be available. This definition nicely describes how Bricolage documents are built from the elements defined for them.

    2. Re:For those who wonder... by rovingeyes · · Score: 0
      Bricolage is the French word for DIY, or, sometimes, hacking.

      The way I interpret your statement is that you are suggesting that Bricolage is a piece of hack and thus not worthy. If that is true then I have to disagree. In my short career of 3 years as developer I have come across so many overzealous developers who think that if you have not developed a software from scratch then either you are not worthy of being called a developer or the product is not a serious product.

      I fail to understand what is this urge to re-invent the wheel everytime and then end up looking exactly like the other wheels around you.

    3. Re:For those who wonder... by kebes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a french-speaker, I'll add that "bricolage" is often used to mean "doing crafts" (like making decorations and stuff) even though the dictionary definition is closer to "doing odd-jobs".

  10. Bricolage Defined. by RandoX · · Score: 1, Interesting


    ...to use something that is easy at hand for a tool it was not designed for. A brick used for a hammer, for exaple, is bricolage...

    Doesn't sound all that efficient, really...

  11. Died cuz of by jon855 · · Score: 0

    the SALON FUMES... They're dangerous. Open Source at the wrong place I think.

    --
    May /. rule the /.ing realm
    1. Re:Died cuz of by smitty45 · · Score: 1

      nope, it was a great place for an open source project to grow, and a lot of folks there supported it. it was one of the first online magazines to go with a full opensource back end.

  12. Bad Empathising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha! Besides what makes people think he would have been frustrated? He got paid, didn't he?

  13. CMS is part of VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm getting tired of you kiddies using the term "CMS". CMS is the Conversational Monitoring System component of VM/370, VM/ESA.

    1. Re:CMS is part of VM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Because TLAs never collide, am I right?

      In other news, Microsoft has announced that DNS now stands for Digital Nervous System

    2. Re:CMS is part of VM by ggvaidya · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm tired of you young 'uns using the term 'VM' VM is 995 in Roman numerals.

    3. Re:CMS is part of VM by downundarob · · Score: 1
      I'm tired of you young 'uns using the term 'VM' VM is 995 in Roman numerals.

      No 995 would be CMXCV

  14. Gag me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll
    Never underestimate the strength of the human passion to create, and to see one's creations bloom in the light of day.


    Give me a break! It's a software project, not a fight against slavery!
  15. Bricolage screenshots? by dustinbarbour · · Score: 1

    I have no desire to use a bit of software I can't see beforehand. I mean, I at least wanna see how it looks. :/

    --
    What is your penile percentile?
    1. Re:Bricolage screenshots? by mroch · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.bricolage.cc/docs/screenshots/

    2. Re:Bricolage screenshots? by digitalchinky · · Score: 1

      Cutting edge 1970's brown tones, rounded corners, and sideburns. It might be brilliant with functionality, but it's still ugly. (Unless you like brown)

  16. Screenshots by RandoX · · Score: 2, Informative

    here.

  17. CMS? by Quixote · · Score: 2, Interesting
    OK, I RTFP (read the first page), and figured out that Bricolage is a CMS.

    Now, as a non-web developer, I have to ask: what does a CMS like Bricolage do? Can someone give some examples, other than a finished site? I want to know more about the backend stuff of a CMS. Call it idle curiosity.

    1. Re:CMS? by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 1

      a CMS manages content. It's basically a framework that takes care of the boring repetive details of writing a content-driven website; these include getting data from other pages, getting/saving properties/attributes of web 'objects', and slapping templates on everything. In general, they are used so that non-techies can upload content, so the techies can spend more time on useful hacking.

      From what I can tell, Bricolage is fairly similar to Zope.

    2. Re:CMS? by ctid · · Score: 1

      Here are some sites created with Bricolage.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    3. Re:CMS? by publius_ovidius · · Score: 5, Informative

      Basically, it allows you to manage information on a large scale and present it in a uniform, consistent manner. It's usually as a Web page, but it can be used to manage to RSS feeds, email, newsgroups, etc (and simultaneously, too. One document can be transformed and sent to all of those.) For example, the bulk of our customers use it to ensure their Web sites have a consistent look and feel and data goes through a proper "workflow" process. It's more suitable for large companies that absolutely must manage their data.

      For example, a journalist might enter a story in Bricolage and check it in. However, depending on the needs of the company, it's probably not published at that point. Some companies require copy editors to proof the stories and others require a legal department to approve the stories. At that point, a story might get moved to a "publish desk" where a new crop of stories get published, it might get kicked back for revision or it might be published on the spot. By guaranteeing that an appropriate process is followed, content can be managed in a way that suits the needs of an organization.

      I should add that I can hardly begin to cover it's features. We have competitors who charge (and get!) six figures for the product we give away for free.

      Side note: my father, whose been a programmer for years, doesn't get this. He keeps asking "if it's so good, why do you give it away?" I don't think he'll ever "get" open source :)

    4. Re:CMS? by Darby · · Score: 3, Informative

      Basically, if you look at most sites they are composed of a few different types of pages.
      Each page may contain several different sections.

      Take /. for example
      You have the title area, the sections along the side, the slashboxes (assuming that you have them turned on), then the stories.

      There are others as well, but that's enough to get the idea.

      So, you know how the site looks, what types of data go where, and even what that given type of data should look like on the page.

      So in a CMS like Interwoven Teamsite, or Bricolage you can set up a variety of templates.

      One type will take the raw content that goes on the page. Usually you'll have an HTML form that the copywriter will put their text in and hit submit. You'll usually have several fields: Title, Tagline, Main body in one or more paragraphs.

      So this content is then usually stored in a database.

      Continuing with the /. example, when a story ends up on the front page, it is formatted to fit into the story section, if it runs over the max length, then it's cut off.
      Also, the "Read More" and other links are tacked on.
      Now, when you click on the read more link, it takes you to a different display of the same information.
      It has the complete text etc.

      Generally, once you have your data stored, you can have any number of templates which define how that data will be presented. Your CMS can then generate all of these different HTML pages, or fragments of pages depending on how you set it up.

      Now, most CMS's I'm familiar with include workflow capability as well.

      So say you work at a newspaper.
      You are submitting a story for the sports section.
      So you click on your "New Sports Story" link in the CMS.
      It will present you with the appropriate form that you put your story into. Title, headline, paragraph, paragraph, etc as well as attaching any images that the template supports.

      Once you hit submit (or preview), the actual HTML pages can be generated, but also, it will go through an approval process before it can go live.

      So you submit your story, and it goes to the sports editor who has some issues.
      He enters his comments and sends it back to you.
      You resubmit, he approves it, and it goes to another editor who gets to give the final approval.

      At this point, it might be updated directly to the live site.

      Alternatively, you might be able to set it to roll out at a pecific date and time etc.

      You can also have straight static HTML pages generated or generate the fragments and have your Web Application build pages dynamically based on who is looking at the page etc.

      There is really quite a lot of customizability possible.
      I've used Interwoven and Bricolage mostly, and they are both really powerful once you start getting the m figured out.

    5. Re:CMS? by publius_ovidius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One key difference between Bricolage and Zope is that we (Bricolage) are entirely back-end. Once we serve the content, there's no overhead of some framework slowing things down. The people can choose to use any technology they want to drive the front end (many folks use PHP). Heck, if they are having performance problem on the front end, they can switch to a different technology and still use Bricolage to manage things on the back end. Many content management systems do not allow this. This is a huge benefit of Bricolage.

    6. Re:CMS? by Quixote · · Score: 1

      Thank you, your reply was very informative. I hope someone can mod it up too.

    7. Re:CMS? by rho · · Score: 1

      Benefit to some, feature hole to others. Now you have two systems to admin, not one. Don't misunderstand, I'm not kicking your project for fun, I'm just expressing what I would perceive as a hassle. Once you've installed Bricolage, you still have to decide what and how you will serve your content, which is a non-trivial problem in itself. Of course, since Bricolage seems to be focussed towards enterprises, those kinds of companies won't blink an eye at high-dollar dual admined systems. But what do I know, i'm just some Slashdot schlub.

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    8. Re:CMS? by publius_ovidius · · Score: 1

      But what do I know, i'm just some Slashdot schlub.

      No, you have a valid point. There have been clients who have not been terribly happy about this. Many of them are expecting all sorts of front-end bells and whistles. As a result, we also provide consultation for those who want those bells and whistles but don't want to shell out the dough of some expensive front-end package.

      For example, we recently did Spin.com. These folks came in, knew what they wanted and knew that there was no need to drop a quarter million+ for it (many of our competitors easily run into six figures.) In order to handle some of their front end needs, we integrated phpBB for the bulletin boards and Google Search as their search engine. They get the extras, but still no expensive framework to complicate things.

    9. Re:CMS? by shaka · · Score: 1

      I reviewed Bricolage for a webzine that I used to run, that was a little more than 2 years ago. We decided not to go with Bricolage.

      Anyway, I'm not really out to bash Bricolage as such, but do you call this integrating?

      You have basically linked "Forums" to a phpBB? The style, the menu, everything looks different.
      Oh, yeah, it looks like you also posted the data from a feature into, not one, but several forums!?
      Why have the same content in two different threads?

      Again, not to bash Bricolage but you may want to give a better example of "integration" than that.

      --
      :wq!
    10. Re:CMS? by publius_ovidius · · Score: 1

      That's what the client asked for. They specifically requested that we find a way to integrate Bricolage (a backend product) with phpBB, a front-end product. The bulletin board has a significantly different look and feel because they set that up and manage it, we don't. Our software does some nifty tricks like automatically spawning a new forum thread for every story, but other than that, we have no control over what they do with this software.

      In this regard, I think this is a great example. Our low-cost backend software allowed them to choose a free, open source front-end piece of software and work just fine. Many CMS systems don't allow that. If it looks different, you'll have to talk to them about it. As for the same content in two different threads: they have control over how that stuff is managed. Talk to them.

  18. Re:Success is customer driven and EXEC-KILLED by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    These execs seem to sound like other people I once talked with about Open Source.

    If you've not done so already, kindly enlighten them that they can hybridize the approach: Dual Licensing..

    $$$$ for the Deluxe/fully-featured/full-access version (you HAVE been modularizing the incremental development feature sets, for the inevitable dual-license scenario, have you?...)

    $$$$$ for the 24/7 support access, version of the above $$$$

    $$-$0.00 for the less-than-fully-featured, no-24/7-support version which DOES included daily snapshots and user-initiated/managed upgrades.

    I don't know WHY so many execs (well, I guess they're ill-informed, uninformed, or deceived by external forces such as news, lying sales reps, and being swamped by too much info to read in too few hours in a day...OR, worse, they're closeted ms-acolytes or stock-holders) have this "either/or" attitude toward Open Sourc, but fail to consider mixing the best of each and splitting the difference. Probably, the same single team could manage both versions of the product, so long as a superior version tracker and a decent in-house and customer-driven bugs/resolution base are all in sync...

    David Syes

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  19. no no no no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why aren't you using the customer appreciation bat?

  20. TheRegister by tezza · · Score: 1
    The Register was supposed to have moved to Bricolage. They promised a HOW-TO [Yesteryear's Blog] on it. This how-to never eventuated, like the Vapourware that they often rail against.

    If someone knows where this guide is, please inform me. All I can find is this

    --
    [% slash_sig_val.text %]
  21. difficult to install?? by danharan · · Score: 1
    Blockquoth the FA:
    So people will always say, Bricolage is difficult to install, which I will grant is true. But there is a great deal of power to be gained from it. You can manage pretty much any website with Bricolage.
    It almost sounds like he's arguing that the more features, the harder the install.

    People are saying it's hard to install, maybe you should listen to them? It's so lame that so many OSS projects have this huge, unnecessary barrier to entry.
    --
    Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
    1. Re:difficult to install?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear SAP is a bitch too. :) Lots of people are too used to very simple, very *limited* software. You are not in that world when you start looking at Bricolage. But in fact, it is not very hard at all to install. No worse than maybe a complex Apache/Appserver setup, and it uses half of CPAN :)

      What is hard is to adapt it to your needs, it is insanely flexable. I would tend to think of that as being much like SAP in that sense as well. There is the software, then there are the insane number of ways you can use it. But what better way to hedge your bets, that to use software that you won't outgrow?

  22. Well done David by Alastair · · Score: 1

    I have to admit that I have not tried Bricolage. But I will say that I keep coming back to it, looking again and thinking about whether I could make use of it. So far, I've only been using HTML::Mason (which Bricolage can use).

    What I would say is - thanks David! I might not use it just now, but I can see what a great framework it is - and have the choice of using it in the future.

  23. CareersMajourSunk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I should add that I can hardly begin to cover it's features. We have competitors who charge (and get!) six figures for the product we give away for free."

    Not anymore.

    "Side note: my father, whose been a programmer for years, doesn't get this. He keeps asking "if it's so good, why do you give it away?" I don't think he'll ever "get" open source :)"

    The Wal-Marting of the IT industry.

  24. difficult to install??--PROFIT!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "People are saying it's hard to install, maybe you should listen to them? It's so lame that so many OSS projects have this huge, unnecessary barrier to entry."

    Got to make a living somehow.

  25. Re: TLA collision by some+guy+I+know · · Score: 1
    Because TLAs never collide, am I right?
    Trans-Libyan Airplanes collide all the time.
    --
    Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
  26. Re:frist psot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yea, i know

    I would have been first except I took too long to formulate my message.

    In the future, however, I will not waste time coming up with something to say before posting.

    Maybe /. could count post time based on when you click the button to reply, not when you finish writing?

  27. PERL? by stu42j · · Score: 1

    Ok, so all-caps PERL is a pretty common mistake but what's up with cPAN?