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Sony Online To Sell Virtual Property
OMG! writes "In an open letter to the community John Smedley, the president of Sony Online Entertainment, announced their new service 'the Station Exchange' which will allow players of Everquest II to trade their items for real live money.
Sony Online is the first major player in the MMORPG genre to embrace commercial trading of in-game items." Commentary available from all the usual suspects, including Wired, the Players, Terra Nova, F13, and Grimwell. This would seem to be a total reversal of the policies of certain other MMOGs.
I jumped out of my chair when I saw this. My inital thoughts:
- This is going to legitimize the activities of companies like IGE.
- I hope it's a unprecendented failure, even though I fear it won't be.
- What's next? SOE selling in-game currency?
At least they have the good sense to do this on new, seperate servers. This is going to have far-reaching consequences, they've essentially broken the "fourth wall" of MMORPGs. First-sign-of-the-apocalypse dept, indeed!
Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
The makers of Second Life have taken a very unique approach to player rights with in the game.
.This is totally against the grain of most online games where the company owns it all.
In Second life, the content player create, is owned by the player and not the company
Additionally, they have started tying in real currency to the in game currency. I know this not unique, as Project Entropia does the same thing.
I personally hope this is the way games will go--giving ownership of virtual property to the players and allowing them to use it, sell it, convert for real $$$. I find these environments more enjoyable and rewarding that environments like Everquest, where Sony pretty much owns you.
"How much for your woman?"
Actually if you think about it, this is even better than software fees. Need money for the yearly employee bonus? Just make some pretend stuff out of thin air and sell as needed! Who said magic isn't real?
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
The things that go through SOE's collective heads... You know, murder is illegal, and people are still doing it all over. It's clogging up our court systems. How about we just make a state where you can murder whomever you want? We will just charge a special tax so we can make a profit off of it. If it just so happens to be your state that we decide to make murder legal in, it's ok, you can always move. You don't need your friends and family anyways.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
but what happens when there is a server crash and I lose some rare object I was going to sell for 50 bucks?
- Preventing people from hacking/gaming the system.
- Making sure it's all skill and not chance.
I'll wager that this is a fiasco. Oops, I mean I suspect it will be. No gambling allowed on Slashdot...Actually, I was trying to be Insightful, not Funny.
By allowing (condoning, actually) this sort of activity, Sony is ensuring that this game dies a slow and lingering death. Gone are the days when all you needed to excel at Everquest was a good internet connection and a complete lack of a life...now you need the cash, too. People with money will be better equipped than people with no money...those with no money will quit in disgust, and those with money will lose interest after they run up against enough other players with enough money to equip themselves well. Fortunately, those who don't want to participate in this mercenary practice will have the option to play on non-Station Exchange servers...that is, until a majority of the players on that server want the server to be a Station Exchange server...in which case you'll have to find another server...sorry.
It seems that Sony is turning on their major client base...risking alienation and mass defection...so why would Sony embraace such a controversial move?
From The Players:
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
...Poor players will have to work for their virtual items, while some punk kid will spend his paycheck on a +1,000 sword of n00bPower.
It makes sense to me to limit or ban this kind of trading/buying. What's the point of earning money and stats, if you can simply buy them?
My roommate was addicted ("No, I just like it a lot! I swear!") to a MMORPG a few years ago and learned that you could sell your character on eBay. He worked some numbers and figured out that if he kept leveling up at his current rate, then within XX weeks he could get to an attractively high level and acquire enough good items to sell at $XX, and he would effectively get $1 an hour for failing grades, failing relationships, failing sleep patterns, and failing personal hygiene.
Amazingly, he decided not to bother.
So the rich get to stay on top even in games?
oh what fun that will be, my character can be a penniless student just like in real life.
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
I didn't RTFA but I'm guessing Sony gets a percentage cut of all items traded on the Station. And even if they don't, it's generating traffic and thus ad revenue.
I mean, WHOA! RIAA! Look at this! Somebody had customers doing illegal things with their property in violation of their license agreement and found a way to make a profit off it instead of sueing their own customers! What a novel friggen concept.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
However, I am already buying enough tangible shit from Sony like Michael Jackson & Jessica Simpson CDs without needing to spend any more with you.
At least with the tangible shit, I have something to throw at the cat or at the TV screen when I realise you guys have ripped me off again.
Regards
Blah blah blah
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
If people want to give real money to buy imaginary items, they should be able to do so. I wouldn't do it, because I don't see what value I would be getting, but if others feel differently, more power to them.
I am surprised that Sony is doing this, though, because they have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot with propriatery standards and a sometimes control-freakish mentality which makes some of their hardware less desireable than it would otherwise be.
It's almost like someone with a different (non-Sony) mindset approved this decision.
There are two issues with Sony actually doing something like this:
1) They are accepting responsibility for the value of in-game items. This might not seem like a big deal, but god forbid a server rollback takes a big-ticket item out of your inventory. Or worse, balance adjustments devalue rare/valuable items. How many lawsuits can you imagine will come from people who want to be reimbursed for their "virtual" property's market value? To be sure, the items in question are really just bits on a computer. But really, how different is that from most banking done today? Would you like to be told by your bank that your last direct deposit doesn't exist anymore because they needed to rollback their database?
2) Officially putting a value to in-game items gives new incentive to all those gold and item harvesting shops to work extra hard, not only to eat up as much of those resources as possible, but to hoard and control market fluxuations. If you think spawn camping is bad now, imagine when you're competing with people who are doing it for a living! Yes, it's already happening now, but this will just take it to levels untold of before.
Will there be an SEC to make sure collusion doesn't take place between harvesters and GMs who spawn an extra rare or two for a few bucks?
There's no difference between trading virtual items and trading any tangible non-essential item. It's a basic economic process: you trade your hours (in the form of money) for someone else's hours (in the form of game goods).
There's a very good reason why realistic online games evolve this kind of trading. Never heard of people selling low-number Slashdot IDs? It's the same thing... people place a value on the virtual goods because they represent an investment in time that they cannot afford.
The obvious rules for virtual goods apply if these are to be traded usefully: a realistic supply (i.e. you can't resell the same item more than once), recourse against fraud, and a semi-official currency that allows abstract exchange.
No difference selling game goods than trading Dollars on forex.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
You'd think they'd run into inflationary pressures if they essentially printed money.
Poor people at a disadvantage to those with high disposable incomes! I can only hope that life doesn't imitate art or we could end up living in a world where the wealthy have access to the best homes, food, clothing, transport, education and health care! What a nightmarish vision!
Hello and may all the Gods of Everguest Bless Yuo!
I am writing because I know that yuo are a sincer and honest person who will hep out a preson in need.
My Everquest cahacter MINOLLY WEATHERALL was sadly kilt in a server crash leaving behind an account of $70,000,000 SEVENTY MILLION AMERICN DOLLARS with no claimant accessible.
If you wil assist me with your Everquest cahracter to recover this money I wil give you 15% plus expenses
This is a sincer offer and I know I can trust you with this verry sensitiv informations!
--- Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers & Families -
golden tee live (a new version of a popular bar-video-golf game) just recently added some new features including paying-for-virtual-property, such as different club-sets or even boxes of golfballs which you DO lose as you hit them into the water.
Smed says that 40% of their customer service calls are related to fraudulent in-game transactions. Sony could make this disappear instantly by creating an escrow system in-game. You have a sword to sell, you take it to the EQ Escrow storefront and drop it off. The buyer picks up the sword and the credits are automatically deducted from his account. No chance for fraud.
This isn't going to legitimize IGE, this is going to put them out of business, once Sony gets rolling with this.
Between 10 and 20 years ago I was into "pen and dice" role playing games big time. As the pre-cursor to MMORPGs, it was great fun escaping from the real life of mortgages & work to go have a few beers with some friends and pretending to be an elf for a while - I even miss RPGs occasionally today.
They were pleasant hours because of pure escapism and entertainment, nothing more. Yes, it was great going up a level as a character, killing a huge beast or solving a big mystery but part of the fun was also dying occasionally or making some huge mistake that made you and your character look like an idiot.
However, one thing that would have ruined it would have been to have a games master who was open to bribery - e.g. "Here's a ten pound note, make sure I get that +5 Vorpal Blade, okay?" It didn't happen and had it happened, the fun element would have dissipated quickly purely because the real world of money and bribery would have begun to influence that fantasy world in our heads.
One reason I never play MMORPGs is because while I believe most people play them for fun, just like our pen and dice games, a small rogue element in every game takes it far too seriously. These are people who need attention and power before escapism and fun, perhaps mirroring what they are like in real life. Thus real life (again!) creeps into a fantasy universe.
Now, Sony is proposing that yet more of "real life" creeps in because, all of a sudden, how much disposable income you have in real life influences how well you will do in EQ. Suddenly, escapism is not so much of an escape...
The real problem here is that it will ruin the escape for the people who do enjoy the fun of it (again, the majority). It's sad, but those people who have to seek attention and power now have a mechanism to buy that.
In my day, we called it "cheating" and all it does is start to destroy the fun of those players who genuinely play purely for to escape from the real world.
This will destroy Everquest, no question about it, because the people that make that universe fun will feel cheated and robbed and will no doubt find another MMORPG to go and play instead.
But quite frankly, if the cheats can make Sony richer in the short term, what do Sony really care?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
But these games aren't actually fun... (Well maybe for the first 15 minutes when everything is new to you) They're repetitive, formulaic, and specifically designed to get you addicted: Hmm, if i level for just one more hour, i can get the sword of cunning and then leveling will be much more fun..except it won't because you'll be fighting harder baddies. You get locked into a cycle of leveling to beat harder badguys, and therefore being introduced to ever harder badguys.
In the end it's never more complicated than walking up to the baddie and pressing two or three fire-buttons and watching your sword wack away. Why not let people who don't have months to spend on A GAME skip by the boring parts if they want to. i.e. farming for money so you can buy a slightly better weapon.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I see all these comments about how this is going to cause everyone to quit EQ II and how the rich will have the best equipment and blah, blah, blah... I used to buy and sell EQ gear for real money all the time and if you actually play the game you learn that the best gear in game can not be bought. They make the truly awesome gear that you get from raiding uber mobs NO DROP. This means that it cannot be traded, sold and etc... The key to getting great gear in a game like this is getting into a good guild and taking on the big mobs in the big zones. Of course spending time getting your character up in levels and experience is important too, but I don't think Sony will allow that on their sales site because you wouldn't be selling an item. They will probably disallow the powerleveling services that charge X amount to play your character for you and get levels. In any case unless EQ II has changed their item drops drastically I would have to say that this won't hurt the game at all. (It will hurt the kids who burn their paychecks on some goofy piece of virtual kit though. Sigh there goes that college fund.)
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
This isn't going to legitimize IGE, this is going to put them out of business, once Sony gets rolling with this.
Quite true. Obviously, no 3rd-party seller of in-game resources can survive being undercut by the system administrators, who can accomplish the equivalent of MONTHS of gil-farming with a single command-line.
However, although the short-term effect may seem beneficial, I've always thought that the legitimized (or merely widespread) sale of in-game items would hasten the collapse of any typical MMORPG. This seems to be a desparation move by SOE, whose EQ2 project has been eclipsed by WoW anyhow.
My thesis is that MMORPGs provide a substantial amount of their entertainment in the same way casino gambling does: the players' victories and rewards are quite arbitrarily handed out by the operators, but the cold-blooded arithmetic is hidden behind a screen of glamour and fun. Expose the honest real-dollars cost of an activity to the player, and they'll flee to a more fantastical game.
If a slot machine has a sign on it that each 10 minutes of play loses an average of $2.85, few people will enjoy pulling the lever.
If level 60 epic flame-armor has a "Buy Now" hyperlink which costs $14.31, few people will find it fun to camp a dragon every 3 hours hoping he drops one more of the pieces.
Basic psychological principles: addiction can best be sustained if the game gives out rewards unpredictably. Game items are valued more because it was hard to know when they'd appear. Putting a blatant dollar-sign on the items is the ultimate form of predictabilty. The virtual Skinner box falls apart. When the mystique is gone, the players will be too.
PS. The Economist magazine agrees with my prediction, although the article isn't posted for nonsubscriber online reading.
Every time a comment like the parent is posted, somehow it gets modded up as insightful and gathers a bunch of flames before smarter people mod it down properly.
/. has "smarter" (that is, people who agree with you) people to mod comments down that you don't like. Perhaps we should give you and your friends full-time mod status so you can enlighten us with you all-encompassing knowledge of everything.
Its a good thing
If you're pissed about moderation, there is something called meta-moderation. Perhaps you might do that sometime.
Sony isn't selling items. You buy items from other characters.
Most players play for fun.
With those two in mind, it makes sense that buying/selling would not be too central to the game. You can still use EQ $$ to buy other in game stuff, and most players don't have the real cash to buy themselves to victory. Buying/selling w/ USD (or the Euro, or whatever.) won't necessarily dominate most players lives.
BUT:
There are going to be people who go NUTS over this. You all know the type, it's the player who is convinced that his success in the game is the justification of his otherwise completely unjustifiable high opinion of himself. That guy is going to center his life around getting real money out of EQ, and he stands a pretty good chance of ruining this for everyone.
put more coherently:
Since you have to buy from other players, there shouldn't be an overabundance of high end items for sale. (if you get something cool, you want to use it.) BUT some people are just asses, and this will only give them one more excuse and one more outlet. They will ruin it, not by buying their way to victory, but by (insert unfair way that jerks can acquire high end items) in order to sell them for real $$.
Once again, the old money will reign and trod on the up-and-coming, or the hobbyist player.
Wake up call: Players were already doing that, except through eBay and the like. This is just Sony going for the cut on the deal eBay gets.