Two Versions of XBox360 Confirmed?

63N1U5 writes "Sources close to Microsoft tell GamesIndustry.biz that the company plans to ship two versions of the new XBox console. The premium version of the console will include a hard drive, and could possibly ship with a version of Microsoft's WebTV installed." We've been reporting on this since the end of last year but it's nice to have some firmer details.

Comments

The Premium version ships with a HD...

[Flamora]

While the non-premium version is a downgrade, hardware-wise, from the current XBox?

Doesn't this strike anyone as a bit confusing and such? The current XBox has a hard drive in it, why wouldn't every XBox 360?

Sure, I can see the WebTV being a "premium version" perk, but a hard drive? Give me a break.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[wallykeyster]

The current XBox has a hard drive in it, why wouldn't every XBox 360?

Because it isn't needed? Rumor is that most games will not use the hard drive (instead using a some flash RAM). I believe that the hard drive will be required to play LIVE games, but to play a single player (or local multiplayer) will not require one on the 360. This will allow Microsoft to drop the price on their basic model, perhaps hitting $150 out of the gate. You want to bet they won't sell millions of these plus the LIVE kit?

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[ElVaquero]

Not only the HD but the lite version is missing... backwards compatability? This seems a little ridiculous unless they can launch at an extremely competitive price point (say, $150). It's an interesting idea, and apparently Sony's planning to follow suit, but if they're only producing 20% of the base as Lite version, why bother? Also, isn't the system around WebTV dead yet, what's wrong with just a basic browser and email system?

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[Thrakkerzog]

I think that the hard drive was often used for piracy.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[Momoru]

The current XBox has a hard drive in it, why wouldn't every XBox 360?

Because it's an extra expense that many people don't use. Most of the data I have stored on my xbox hard drive could fit on a memory card. Although I think if they don't give a hard drive by default, hardly anything will use it and it will be pointless (much like the PS2 hard drive, or the PSX mouse). I guess they figured they could sell the stripped one to some middle class hotspot price of $200 or something.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[frikazoyd]

Lots of reasons, a few of which have been touched already:

1: Hard Drives are pricy.
self-explanatory

2: Hard Drives break easy.
Suppose they are going for a "portable" image with the new console. Hard drives make things less portable, since they have to be padded and even then are still easily breakable.

3: You can take away functionality and later charge more for it and call it a "feature" with good marketing.
And everyone's eating it up.

What is up with the web tv thing anyway? It is like Microsoft is trying to make the X-Box more of a "living room computer" every day. If I want to browse the web, I'm going to use my computer, not my console. Sorry Bill, I'm not buying into it.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, I would never even consider a consol that wasn't built with a harddrive in mind. Not anymore. The one thing I'd *really* like to see that I probably won't would be the ability for an xbox to backup the saved games to a network share, perhaps even automagically.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[Elranzer]

I was planning on buying the harddrive-less Xbox 360 because I don't play online much, not anymore, and also don't use it for pirating. I also do not play sports games which often require more space than a memory card can hold. I am content with a memory card for saving.

However, backwards compatibility is a big thing for me. So I guess I'll have to shell out for the Xbox 360+ (Xbox 361?), just for this feature. It's a pain in the ass to have to keep the Saturn next to the Dreamcast since Sega had no idea what backwards compatibility was, but I won't have both an Xbox and Xbox 360 wasting space on my shelf.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[snuf23]

"3: You can take away functionality and later charge more for it and call it a "feature" with good marketing. And everyone's eating it up."

This has never been proven to be the case in the console market. Console expansions have been around since the old days for Atari and Intellivision (i.e. Starpath supercharger, IntelliVoice) all the through the Sega CD and 32x to the PS2 hard drive. Yet none of these has seen a great deal of support. More developers are going to target the base platform.
That being said, since the current Xbox HD has not really been used for too much and could probably at this point be replaced by flash memory, I believe the next gen Xbox hard drive option will be used primarily for functions beyond gaming. Microsoft probably wants to use this option to turn it into a mini media center. Figure things like WebTV, PVR functionality, music playback. This would be a logical step if MS has been paying any attention to what people have been using modded Xboxes for (aside from piracy of course).

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[__aailob1448]

I can definitely see a "Live! pack" that includes the hard drive, headphones and x free months of live service priced around $100. I'm also seeing a "prettied up" halo 2 preinstalled on the HD to sweeten the deal. Xbox gamers today already have to buy a separate Live! pack, so this wouldn't be inconsistent on Microsoft's part I still think it would have been smarter to just include an HD AND a microphone out of the box so that people have very little to do to subscribe to Live!. They'll have the online multiplayer taunting them everytime they launch a game and many will end up whipping out their credit cards and signing up. This would increase the percentage of Live! users significantly from the 8% microsoft counts on today. This means regular cashflow to microsoft (which in time will cover the losses incurred by bundling HDs in the system), not to mention that once you are paying for Live!, then you have more incentive to buy new games. If your friend buys a solo game, you could always wait for him to finish it and borrow it. If it's a multiplayer game, you'll go buy it so you can play online with him. Also, playing online is great in and on itself... And well, no developper will complain because they have a Hard Drive to work with either. We all know that the Xbox's HD and the PS2's optional one didn't really see much use but that could change.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[zero_offset]

I also do not play sports games which often require more space than a memory card can hold.

I don't play ANY sports games except driving-related games, and I have many, many save files which are far too large to fit on a memory card. Extremely large save files are common with the more involved RPG games, for example.

Re:The Premium version ships with a HD...

[leland242]

I'm a fairly technical guy. I work in the scientific instruments industry. I build my own computers.

If Microsoft said: "Look! Here is a next gen console that will allow you to not only play some decent games, but let you and your girlfriend get on the internet using your nice 50" dlp without lugging the PC into the living room!" it would be a selling point for me. The only cons would be possibly paying a monthly subscription fee and having to purchase a $20 keyboard + mouse set for $60 since it has some special plug.

The older I get, the less hassle I want in life. A modded XBox sounds really cool! But the reality is that I'm not going to invest the start-up time to figure out what mod-chip to buy, what os to install, and where to dl all this crap.

WebTV

[Momoru]

I had the original WebTV. It sucked. But maybe with a highdef version of WebTV, it may be useable. It seems like MS is trying slowly but surely to have Xp Media Center and Xbox converge into the "tv top Windows appliance" they have always wanted.

Re:WebTV

[Anonymous Coward]

As a current X-Box owner, they might have tempted me with an X-Box/PVR combo about six months ago, but that ship has sailed.

Mac mini 1.42MHz + EyeTV 500 = High-Def PVR bliss.

It even playes WoW. :)

If I buy another game console anytime in the next couple years, it will be whatever the next PlayStation is. I'm tired of waiting up to a year for each GTA release to be ported over.

Re:WebTV

[SunFan]

Given that media PCs have been poor sellers for a decade, now, Microsoft may be trying to _force_ media PC market penetration via the XBox. They would have to do this to compete against PVRs, for example.

So...what would the kids say if daddy is recording American Idol when they want to play? Or what about when mommy wants to get some crystal off of ebay?

Re:WebTV

[Anonymous Coward]

So...what would the kids say if daddy is recording American Idol when they want to play? Or what about when mommy wants to get some crystal off of ebay?

Sounds like daddy has bad taste and mommy's gonna go away for a long time if she ever gets busted... : p

Re:WebTV

[SunFan]

I just solved the problem: PIPIP (picture in picture in picture) with three keyboards, mice, and game controllers. All on the family 25" TV.

Re:WebTV

[Dot.Com.CEO]

I thought of that combination as well, but the macmini has a huge fault: no digital audio out.

Re:WebTV

[Golias]

I thought of that combination as well, but the macmini has a huge fault: no digital audio out.

You mean no built in digital audio out.

Three letters to consider before dismissing the mini:

USB

Yes, the better USB digital audio options are a little expensive, but a mini with such a gadget is still almost a thousand dollars cheaper than the lowest-end G5 tower.

Re:WebTV

[Dot.Com.CEO]

Yes, but then it wouldn't cost 500EUR and, more importantly, it would not be as compact. I'm pretty sure one of the next revisions of the mini will have an optical out (because it just makes sense), so I'll just wait a bit.

Re:WebTV

[Golias]

it would not be as compact.

Have you seen the M-Audio transit? It's smaller than a wallet, and hides nicely right behind your receiver.

The same goes for most of the competing products.

Think of it as a USB-TOSLink adapter cable with a slight bulge in the middle.

Re:WebTV

[SilkBD]

Wow... I spend $10 a month for my Comcast HD PVR.
If you do the math, It will take me about 8 years to reach the amount you spent... and I get to upgrade to newer/higher capacity DVR's for free as they come out.
But, hey... if you got the money to crap into the toilet... go for it.

Re:WebTV

[Dot.Com.CEO]

Thanks for the tip, the price is right too, about 70EUR.

Re:WebTV

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"So...what would the kids say if daddy is recording American Idol when they want to play?"

If it's anything like XP-MCE, that won't be a problem. I can play WOW or UT2004 while I record without any issues.

Re:WebTV

[Anonymous Coward]

It won't be long before game developers suck up every last ounce of the XBox 360/PS3/Nintendo-whatsit.

Re:WebTV

[King Fuckstain]

You honestly can't see the difference between a Comcast-supplied PVR and one a person has assembled for himself?

It's not always a matter of money.

Re:WebTV

[hobbesx]

What would the kids say?

How 'bout: 'Buy us another XBox Dad!'

Re:WebTV

[PhoenixOne]

>Or what about when mommy wants to get some crystal off of ebay?
>
If mom is buying hard drugs from eBay, the kids have bigger issues then their poor GamerTag stats...

Again with 'confirmed'.

[hollismb]

What is it with Zonk considering anonymous sources as confirmation of something? Until Microsoft says it, nothing is confirmed. This is just a more specific version of the rumor from November that came out regarding multiple versions of the Xbox. Likely? Yeah, but really it's all just speculation until the MTV special next month. Shudders at the thought of MTV as an actual source of information. And how come these anonymous sources never bother to mention for certain whether the HD version will have backwards compatibility?

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[wallykeyster]

What is it with Zonk considering anonymous sources as confirmation of something?

I believe that ending the subject line with a question mark indicates that it is a question more than a declaration.

Until Microsoft says it, nothing is confirmed.

Official announcements are scooped all the time. Unless Microsoft is working in the Sistine Chapel with cell phone blockers installed under the floor, I am confident that enough details will leak out to get the picture before the MTV infomercial.

And how come these anonymous sources never bother to mention for certain whether the HD version will have backwards compatibility?

Backwards compatibility is a given for most who follow this. Specifying that the economy model likely will not included it also goes to this assumption.

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[Golias]

Backwards compatibility is a given for most who follow this. Specifying that the economy model likely will not included it also goes to this assumption.

Both are foolish assumptions.

1. You do not need a hard drive for backwards compatability. A flash memory card can spoof a hard drive just fine. (In fact, there are several on the market which do exactly that on the current X-Box in order to offer game portability.)

2. The current X-Box is an Intel x86 chip and an nVidia graphics card which most X-Box games were specifically optimized for. The new one will use a PowerPC chip with an ATI graphics card. Not just different chipsets and motherboards, but different instruction sets, different endian orders, and completely different video card. All of these are far greater obstacles to backwards compatability than the presence or lack of a specific type of media drive. If there are two versions of the X-Box 360, it seems extremely unlikely they will be able to pull it off for either of them.

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[wallykeyster]

1. You do not need a hard drive for backwards compatability. A flash memory card can spoof a hard drive just fine. (In fact, there are several on the market which do exactly that on the current X-Box in order to offer game portability.)

I was not assuming the need for a hard drive.

2. The current X-Box is an Intel x86 chip and an nVidia graphics card which most X-Box games were specifically optimized for. The new one will use a PowerPC chip with an ATI graphics card. Not just different chipsets and motherboards, but different instruction sets, different endian orders, and completely different video card.

x86 is little endian but the PowerPC is bi-endian, meaning it can work either way. The differences between desktop RISC and CISC instruction sets are not what they used to be, especially thanks to the work of NextGen (purchased by AMD in '96). However, I agree that these would be challenging, hard drive or not.

Sources within Microsoft were reporting last summer that backwards compatibility would not be included in the 360. However, the rumors have persisted. J Allard refused to comment either way just two weeks ago.

Also interesting is his comment regarding something for those kick ass Halo 2 players. This fits with the rumor that Halo 2 will come preloaded on the hard drive of the more expensive model.

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[hollismb]

I have absolutely no faith in this so-called preloaded Halo idea, more often called 'Halo 2.5', which is not at all unlike 'Halo 1.5' which was another user-community invented rumor. We all know that Bungie is only just now finished with the new maps, and even openly admitted in an interview on Monday that they're using their time to to determine what to do next. On top of that, you'd then have two totally different versions of Halo 2 playing against eachother over the same Xbox Live, which is just flat-out a bad idea.

The obvious solution is that players will be forced into buying the hard-drive, not because it's required for backwards compatibility from a hardware perspective, but simply because it 'allows' it, and maybe includes some sort of cost for licensing fees to NVidia if they're needed (for emulation), much like the DVD playback kit covers those codec fees so it's not included in the price of the Xbox itself. Then, the Xbox 360, would simply allow you to play with the original disc. Once again, none of this is confirmed, and the hands-down best indication of backwards compatibility (if there is any) was in fact that Allard quote from above. And that's the best we've got from any sort of reliable/identifiable source.

My problem with the whole idea is that the people most likely to see backwards compatibility as a make/break selling feature are those that don't have a lot of money in the first place, and are more on the fence about buying the next Xbox. So, only include it in the more expensive model, which is the one that early adopters will buy anyway? Why not have it in the cheaper system, so little Timmy, who only has a couple games, is still in middle-school, and has to trade in his system to afford the new one will be able to have it as well?

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[DeadScreenSky]

1. You do not need a hard drive for backwards compatability. A flash memory card can spoof a hard drive just fine. (In fact, there are several on the market which do exactly that on the current X-Box in order to offer game portability.)
The problem with that is quite a few Xbox1 games use the hard drive as a large cache while playing. IIRC each game gets around a gig to do so. It is used for a lot more than just savegames and custom soundtracks.

(In general this fact is constantly ignored by the "why bother with a hard drive?" crowd for some reason I can't fathom.)

Existing flash memory is unsuitable as a large game cache area. Perhaps some new tech is being used, but that still strikes me as pricey.

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[Anonymous Coward]

Existing flash memory is unsuitable as a large game cache area.

Because???

It's data storage. It's faster than any hard drive. It's plenty large enough. What's the problem?

Re:Again with 'confirmed'.

[DeadScreenSky]

Because???

It's data storage. It's faster than any hard drive. It's plenty large enough. What's the problem?
It's mainly the fact that it can't be rewritten to all that much compared to a hard disk. Using it as a cache involves lots of little writes and reads. I forget what current flash memory is up to when it comes to longevity (it does get better every year), but it still isn't at the point where you can use it as a hard drive in this kind of situation. This is barring some new tech, of course (or the possibility of having to replace this 'memory card' every few years) - but it isn't a slam dunk replacement by any means, especially for backwards compatibility purposes.

An inability to perform random erasure/rewrites might also be a problem, though presumably this could be dealt with via the Xbox360's software libraries.

WebTV a premium feature?

[binaryspiral]

Adding WebTV as a premium feature is like selling a computer with a free month of AOL.

Oh wait...

Re:WebTV a premium feature?

[justforaday]

Who knows, we may just end up seeing "AOL for Xbox360" *shudder*

Re:WebTV a premium feature?

[cptgrudge]

"MSN for XBox360" is more likely. Although that might bring up some anti-competitive business suits, so it might need to be compatible with more than just MSN.

Other Rumors

[nathanmace]

I have also heard that have a hard drive will enable backwards compatibilty with Xbox 1 games. I don't know if it is true, but I have heard it mentioned at a couple sites.

Re:Other Rumors

[nathanmace]

Damn, I guess all of those typos are what I get for posting without previewing it first. Sorry.

Re:Other Rumors

[Anonymous Coward]

And did you "hear" that by RTFA? Since it pretty much says that...

Dupe!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can confirm that we have a firmer dupe now!

I Predict The Next Games.Slashdot Headline

[superultra]

"Two Versions of Xbox360 More Confirmed"

ROXOR739A writes, "My cousin and I played a 3 round session of Rock, Paper, Scissors this morning. He represented two versions of the Xbox360, and I represented one version. He won 2 out of 3. I think this mostly confirms two versions of hardware, and it's nice to have this confirmation. When asked to elaborate Microsoft gave their standard reply, 'We do not comment on rumors or arbitrary games of Rock, Paper, and Scissors.'"

(Read More... |28 of 29 comments | games.slashdot.org)

The article is horribly written.

[Omni Magnus]

I hate how the article mentions the the low end XBOX 360 will not have backwards compatability, but the premium version will have Microsoft Web TV. WTF, why didn't you mention wheter or not the premium XBOX will be backwards compatible. The reason why the XBOX 360 is not going to use a hard drive is because hard drives are expensive compared to most of the other components of an XBOX. Check out Newegg, you cannot find a 3.5 in hard drive for under $50, no matter how small the capacity. Most current games do not take advantage of the hard drive very well. Only a handful of games have released downloadable content which gets stored on the drive. Also, if you are constantly swapping games in and out of the XBOX, you won't be taking advantage of the XBOX caching files on the hard drive, and therefore you would'nt notice a decrease in the load times. Seriously, most of the people who take advantage of a hard drive in the XBOX, are the modders who use a larger hard drive to store the games. The XBOX 360 will come with enough flash RAM to store game saves, and for those who really want the downloadable content and improved load times for one game can purchase the premium version.

Re:The article is horribly written.

[jkerman]

have you priced console memory cards recently? an old, small, slow, $50 hard disk sounds like a fair deal compared to small, proprietary, expensive, $25 memory cards.

1 1G USB stick goes for $60 nowadays, but i dont see any console manufacturer giving up that easy revenue.

Re:The article is horribly written.

[Omni Magnus]

Yes, but a gig of flash ROM could easily be integrated to the motherboard, and would be pretty cheap. I think that could be done for under $10 a board.

Re:The article is horribly written.

[Deliveranc3]

If the new version will have a method to store saves and the only other reason to have a HD is to store swappable data why don't they just make the data load onto the new and much larger memory?

Sure some games won't be backwards compatible because the memory will be lower than HD space (although the profussion of partitions on my Xbox HD seem to allow the possibility that swap space is limited).

Considering that the new xbox will be more than 10x more powerful there is also the possibility of massive compression or texture re-encoding to alleviate the diffrence in sizes.

Re:The article is horribly written.

[Anonymous Coward]

XBox or Xbox. Not XBOX.

two version...

[alexandreracine]

Of course!

The first version : XBox360
The second one : XBox360 professionnal edition

Same shit, two name.

Re:two version...

[SunFan]

I propose: XBox360 and XBox 360 MEE (More Expensive Edition).

Re:two version...

[over_exposed]

Microsoft has had good luck with just the 'ME' suffix. They should stick with it :-)

shame

[Sv-Manowar]

It's a shame to see this happen, It reminds me of the N64 expansion pak, where you NEEDED to upgrade to play certain games (like Perfect Dark)

Hopefully there won't be any "HD model only" type games which can only be used on the higher model. It would annoy a lot of customers

Re:shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Except it's not really the same thing since the expansion pak was $30 at most ($10 if you waited a few months) and came bundled with the bigger expansion pak games (like Perfect Dark).

Re:shame

[mink]

The expansion pack was a memory upgrad that let the system do more texture work IIRC. It wasnt too expensive.

Re:shame

[Tim Browse]

And it came 2nd one year in Edge magazine's "Hardware Innovation of the Year" award.

For me, that finally confirmed that Edge were a bunch of idiots - they gave runner up in a hardware innovation award to a 4Mb RAM pack.

Not Two... Three versions

[Anonymous Coward]

There will be THREE versions of the Xbox 360. The base unit, the base unit with a hard drive and an enhanced unit with a larger hard drive and a TiVo like video recording utility.

NONE of the three versions will offer backwards compatability.

I saw this posted on Evil Avatar and you know those guys are hooked in with Microsoft big time.

Re:Not Two... Three versions

[Anonymous Coward]

How about a fourth version that is just an empty plastic shell, you know, like those fake cell phone antennas.

A cheap version without a hard drive could be good

[pnice]

If they build the Xbox 360 like the current Xbox they might just not install a hard drive on the cheap version but it will still have a place for an IDE connection. This could work out good for those that are interested in modding one (if it becomes possible). You buy the cheap one, mod it and install your own hard drive, the size you want. I know I immediately replaced my 8gig Xbox hard drive with a 120gig. Now the 8gig just sits around collecting dust.

You paid $950 for a PVR???

[EnronHaliburton2004]

Mac Mini 1.42MHz: $599
EyeTV 500: $349

That's $950, without any upgrades. Holy crap, how can you afford that?

Somehow I'm guessing that that an Xbox/PVR combo will cost far less.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Golias]

That's $950, without any upgrades. Holy crap, how can you afford that?

I have this thing called a job.

If you can't afford that, you probably can't afford a good HDTV, either.

Also, the EyeTV 500 is only $300. (Although once you add $200 for the GB of RAM, and a few bucks here and there for things like a DVI-HDMI cable and a USB-TOSLink audio card, it ends up being well over a grand for the whole sh'bang.)

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[EnronHaliburton2004]

Spending $950 to watch television is a sad, sad sign of your addiction. How much did you pay to get those extra pixels in the HDTV? How much do you pay per year for cable?

Is it worth it? It's all the same crap, with commercials, just in a higher resolution. Watching TV is fine once in a while, but I can't believe people spend so much money to have shit shoveled at them.

For $950, I could take a nice vacation, take some good classes, save up for retirement (It'll be $4000 by the time I retire), put money in my kids college fund (It'll be $3000).

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Anonymous Coward]

"Spending $950 to watch television is a sad, sad sign of your addiction. How much did you pay to get those extra pixels in the HDTV? How much do you pay per year for cable?"

Why does it matter. If he earns $1000000000 a year, $950 is chump change. Even $20000 (with the best HDTV and cable) is chump change.

"For $950, I could take a nice vacation, take some good classes, save up for retirement (It'll be $4000 by the time I retire), put money in my kids college fund (It'll be $3000)."

Dude, what if he already did all that. And still had disposable income?

The key here is to realize that people have different incomes. And they do as they please. You have different priorities, he has different ones.

You seem more like a jealous fuck, then anything else.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[EnronHaliburton2004]

If he's like most people, he doesn't earn $1000000000 a year. If he's like most HDTV owners, he probably earns $50K, and still spent too much on television, hasn't maxed out his 401K, IRA or savings. Hopefully he didn't put it on his creditcard.

You seem more like a jealous fuck, then anything else.

I call this the GodTVWin's law: If you complain about consumerism, your opponent tries to make you appear jealous as an attempt to end the conversation. It's like Godwin's law.

Although, if he does make $1,000,000,000 , then I am jealous. I just want a small piece of that.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Mr.Dippy]

Um I fit your IRS-Tax bracket profile and I have a 52 inch HDTV and I have no debt and my stock portfolio and Roth IRA and 401k are doing just nicely, thank you. Oh and I'm pumping out about $1200 a semester for Grad School.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Golias]

Spending $950 to watch television is a sad, sad sign of your addiction.

Guilty as charged! My house is the box I keep my TV in.

How much did you pay to get those extra pixels in the HDTV?

Seeing as I also use the HDTV as my 119" computer monitor, you could say I paid all that money for more than one purpose.

Counting the remodeling in my house to accomodate the new home theater with multiple rows of seating (I often entertain friends with "movie nights"), the total tab came in around five or six grand.

I have no kids to put through college, so I'm free to waste my money on things you don't value.

How much do you pay per year for cable?

$0.

HDTV is free over the air in every major city in the US.

Is it worth it?

Good heavens, yes!

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Golias]

If he's like most people...

You can stop right there, bucko.

I spent a week of vacation and a pile of money to tear apart my main living room and effectively turn it into a movie theater which also allows me to watch TV and play computer games on a screen which dwarfs every other object in my house. While I was at it, I converted the dining room into a poker room. In short, I've completely canabalized a suburban one-family house to create a very expensive bachelor pad.

It probably also lowered the resale value of my house by almost as much money as I put into it.

"Most people" would never do something like that. I, on the other hand, am completely thrilled with the result.

I may be a lot of things, but one thing I am not is "most people."

he probably earns $50K, and still spent too much on television, hasn't maxed out his 401K, IRA or savings. Hopefully he didn't put it on his creditcard.

Wrong on all counts. I make more than that, I didn't spend "too much" (IMHO), I have maxed out my retirement plans, and I paid cash.

How? Well, for starters I don't spend a lot on some of the things that other folks go nuts on: I drive an old car, so I have no financed car payments to worry about. I generally don't eat overpriced fast food. My job allows me to wear jeans and t-shirts, so I spend almost no money on nice clothes. The list goes on.

Secondly, I'm not married. I'm not saying marriage is a bad thing. If I meet the right girl, I'm sure I'll jump in with both feet... but it is phenominally expensive, especially if that marriage produces children and/or ends in divorce. I could book a standing appointment with a high-priced hooker every weekend for the amount of money that getting married has cost some people I know. Just the wedding ceremony and the ring alone is more money then I spent on my home improvements this year.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Jackazz]

It is starting to get a little offtopic, but you can't max out your 401K, you can give up to 100% of your salary.

By your logic, we shouldn't spend money on entertainment. What about living your life? What if we don't make it to retirement and never enjoyed ourseleves? There is nothing wrong with buying an HDTV or an XBOX2 if that is what you are into.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Short Circuit]

Where do you go to school?! I put out almost that much for one particularly busy semester at a community college!

I've found ways to reduce costs since then, but, still!

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Golias]

It is starting to get a little offtopic, but you can't max out your 401K, you can give up to 100% of your salary.

I maxed out what would be fully matched under my vesting plan, and put my other retirement money elsewhere. 401K's are not that great a deal once you go past the company freebies.

What about living your life? What if we don't make it to retirement and never enjoyed ourseleves?

W3rd.

If I bothered to maintain a "friends list," you would be on it for that one bit of insight alone.

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[Mr.Dippy]

I take one class a semester because I'm semi lazy and it's at www.umuc.edu .

Re:You paid $950 for a PVR???

[EnronHaliburton2004]

By your logic, we shouldn't spend money on entertainment.

I never said otherwise. But I think people should live more frugally, and should watch less TV. Spending $950 on a PVR doesn't seem like a good deal.

Variations of the same console?

[josteos]

Isn't the one advantage of consoles that they insure, to the game developer, that all hardware will be the same? No more trying to handle special cases, just code & hit PLAY.

Suddenly I'm seeing visions of some 14yo bongmaster staring at a screen, trying to play his new game, "Morto Kombato 12: Just Like The Others", but stuck wondering what to do about the message "To Play This Game You Must First Upgrade to InDirectX 15f".

Does anyone remember

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone remember how before the XBOX was released people commented on how it was just a ploy by microsoft to make a PC that was connected to your TV (for web-tv and other mostly-usless crap)?

And does anyone remember how the XBOX fanboys of the time were saying that "Microsoft is only interested in making a games machine" and that there were no intentions to make it a scaled down PC?

I wonder whether they'll admit they're wrong, or if they'll just tell us how great it will be to surf the net on their TV at a crappy resolution ...

Oh, by the way, does anyone ever use their gaming machines for anything except for games? Seriously, how many people watch DVD's on their PS2 or XBOX? How many people listened to CD's on their PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn or Sega-CD? How many people use their PSP as a movie device or a MP3 player? How many people use their N-Gauge as a Phone? (oh wait, bad example; does anyone actually own an N-Gauge?)

Re:Does anyone remember

[Elranzer]

Everything except DVD's on the PS2 is true. But remember, when the PS2 came out in 2000, many people did not have a DVD player. A lot of people actually used the PS2 as a DVD player more than a game machine. To this day, I know many people (mostly high schoolers and college kids, you know, the demographic that the video game market is catered to), still use their PS2 as their primary DVD player, or in most cases, only DVD player.

Re:Does anyone remember

[hollismb]

just tell us how great it will be to surf the net on their TV at a crappy resolution..

Normally, I'd agree with you, especially about WebTV when I've got a computer a few feet away, but you gotta admit, there ain't nothing wrong with 1280 by 720 resolution on an HDTV. Remember, we're talking about the 'HD-era' here, so you have to assume that'd be included.

I don't want to defend or refute the 'fanboys' you're talking about, but it's been a common conception for years that all these companies want to dominate the whole 'digital set-top box' market, and making a good gaming machine was obviously the first step in doing that. Hey, if it wants to give me IPTV, web browsing, caller-id, PVR capability, music/media storage all at the same time...fine by me.

That being said, and to answer your question, I actually use my Xbox as a music server. Whenever I buy a new CD, I copy it to my Xbox (and PC for my ipod), then keep the disc in my car from that point forward. And no, I don't use the crappy RCA-style remote, and instead programmed it into my universal remote. I would argue that alot of people (mostly youngsters) watch DVD on their systems. The largest issue with the Xbox as a DVD player is that it's not progressive-scan, 3:2 pulldown, or any of that.

Re:Does anyone remember

[AlexMax2742]

Bad example. I use my Xbox as a DVD player, and several of my friends's use their PS2 as their primary DVD player.

And honestly, I don't care. As long as they release a $300 machine that plays games well, I could care less if there is some $400 variant with WebTV. Besides, I bet there will be ways to hook up external hard drives to your Xbox within a week of it being released.

Me? I am perfectly happy with my Xbox, and since it's going to continue to be supported into 2007, I'll just stick with it until then. By then, hopefully the 360 will be $199 and the library of games will be good enough for me to grab one myself.

Re:Does anyone remember

[EvilSporkMan]

How many people listened to CD's on their PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn or Sega-CD?
I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I thought the PSX visualizations for music were cool and was disappointed that the PS2 didn't have them. I also use my GP32 as an OGG player...

Hints at Something Bigger

[robbway]

The rumors expressed in the article really seem to indicate that non-HD system could easily be smaller, portable, and run on battery (for a short time). It wouldn't make a lot of sense to offer two of the same systems unless MS could get us to buy both of them. It would certainly make sense to have the deluxe system be the HD and legacy components along with the XBox 360, which is essentially the Core system for the new hardware.

That way, the "lite" system could play all of the new software for people who don't want to pay the extra $150 or more.

The PSP is such a powerful little system, that the logical progression in consoles suggests a mobile/console configuration (w/docking port). Such a configuration would allow you to enjoy the system away from home, and get the home-theater experience when home.

WebTV has sold me on Xbox...

[Daniel Wood]

Not that I care about WebTV or will ever use it. But WebTV means that the Xbox will support a native keyboard and mouse(hoping for standard usb here). That means Halo2/Halo3 with a keyboard and mouse option! Consoles will now be a viable FPS platform. (Yes, I know about KB/Mouse adapters for the Xbox, I have one, it sucks)

MOD PARENT UP

[darthtrevino]

That's a top reason for removing it. The hard drive helped hackers to convert the XBOX into a small PC.

Most game data doesn't take up alot of space anyway, flash memory should be sufficient for game saves.

I BET!

[Anonymous Coward]

Both will have the same skeletons! and if you want a hard drive, all you have to do is go buy any old one, open your XBOX and wack it in! ;-)

I'll probably get the premium one...

[whitetiger0990]

Although it didn't say about the premium having compatibility with the old xbox games. If it does then WOOOOO!

xbox360 is just looking better and better!

Misleading title

[aztektum]

Should read "How much smoke can we blow up your ass over one console?"

Lack of HD may not be a smart move

[__aailob1448]

Ooops, here is the formatted version of my post: As we all know, Hard drives are expensive and don't go down past a certain price (around $40-50) so it's significantly cheaper for microsoft not to include I can definitely see a "Live! pack" that includes the hard drive, headphones and x free months of live service priced around $100. I'm also seeing a "prettied up" halo 2 preinstalled on the HD to sweeten the deal. Xbox gamers today already have to buy a separate Live! pack, so this wouldn't be inconsistent on Microsoft's part. I still think it would have been smarter to just include an HD AND a microphone out of the box so that people have very little to do to subscribe to Live!. They'll have the online multiplayer taunting them everytime they launch a game and many will end up whipping out their credit cards and signing up. This would increase the percentage of Live! users significantly from the 8% microsoft counts on today. This means regular cashflow to microsoft (which in time will cover the losses incurred by bundling HDs in the system), not to mention that once you are paying for Live!, then you have more incentive to buy new games. If your friend buys a solo game, you could always wait for him to finish it and borrow it. If it's a multiplayer game, you'll go buy it so you can play online with him. Also, playing online is great in and on itself... And well, no developper will complain because they have a Hard Drive to work with either. We all know that the Xbox's HD and the PS2's optional one didn't really see much use but that could change.

If you ask me...

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Using the word "confirmed" combined with a question mark is like saying nothing. You might just as well shut the fuck up.

Re:If you ask me...

[wheany]

I agree with this post.

Re:A cheap version without a hard drive could be g

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that Microsoft wants the Xbox to be modded. They don't. It's just an unfortunate side effect of using a PC architecture and a hard drive. Don't count on modding being so simple next time around.

hah.

[Smobien]

Too bad nobody cares.

Retailers

[Sludge]

If you're in retail, you hate this sort of thing. Having similar multiple versions of stock means you have to always be in stock of each kind.

Some of us will remember the game Black and White, which was originally supposed to come in either a black (evil) box or a white (good) box. In the end, the retailers wouldn't hear of it, and they had to ship on a single one.

Would that actually happen to a video game console? Take a look at the Gamecube getting squeezed out of some of the more casual retailers in the past couple of years. That sort of thing can happen.

Doubling up on your big ticket items is probably a bad idea.

Re:Retailers

[Anonymous Coward]

Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft are just two examples of 'recent' games that had multi-box launches. I am sure there are more.

The XBox is the second most popular console in the USA. No retailer is going to refuse to stock it. Don't be stupid.

It's annoying for me to say, but...

[Pvt_Waldo]

...it seems odd to end a sentence with the word "confirmed" and also a question mark. If it was confirmed, it wouldn't be a question, would it. But that's just a rumor?

Xbox 360, what a lame name...

[dalmiroy2k]

Tony Vivaldi: What is this, Benedict? First you're my friend; now you turn a... 360 on me!

Benedict: 180, you stupid, spaghetti-slurping cretin - *180*! If I did a 360, I'd go completely around and end up back where I started!

Tony Vivaldi: What?

Benedict: Trust me!
[shoots him]

Xbox360

[engineerdude]

Xbox360 will be promoted by CNN's Anderson Cooper