Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Offshoring to a Ship in International Waters

Posted by samzenpus on from the geek-loveboat dept.

JasdonLe writes "Sourcing Mag posted an article about Roger Green and David Cook, who hope to avoid US visa regulations that usually accompany outsourcing, with their company SeaCode, and a used cruise ship, sitting in international waters three miles off the coast of Los Angeles.""

31 of 800 comments (clear)

  1. Is it April Fools Day? by TimeTraveler1884 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Let me be the first to say, "Holy Shit!" Is it me, or is off shoring getting out of hand?

    Apparently, they have plans for 600 software engineers on this ship. Their major point of having them on the ship appears to be that they can maintain low costs to produce software, while only being 3.1 miles off the coast of Los Angeles. I am assuming they don't have to pay corporate taxes to any entity.
    From SeaCode.com:
    SeaCode presents an innovative service which offers the reduced costs of a distant-shore software development operation while providing the operational benefits and accessibility of a U.S. based onshore location.

    Another SeaCode benefit is that 90% of revenue comes back to the U.S. instead of flowing out of the U.S. to distant-shore outsourcing locations.

    But this just seems to be asking for a lot of trouble. Humanitarily speaking, since they are not actually in any country, who protects the rights of those 600 laboring software engineers? Does anyone have the authority to make sure that it's not (child) slave labor? No government agency can make sure that working conditions are safe and healthy.

    From SourcingMag:
    Before you think, "sweat-ship," hear them out. These workers, they say, will each have private rooms with baths, meal service, laundry service, housekeeping and access to on-board leisure-time activities. Picture the Love Boat with a timecard. Staff can make the three-mile voyage into town in their off hours by calling a water taxi. Or they can spend time shopping in the on-board duty-free shop.

    SourcingMag says that SeaCode will treat their workers fairly. That's great and all if we suddenly believed that corporations are honest and will regulate themselves. How many times have companys ran sweat-shops and claimed that they were treating their worker's fairly?

    At first, I thought this was a joke. I am still unsure if it is.

    1. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by TheKeyMaker · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sounds more like HMS Click Monkey
      http://www.clickmonkeys.com/aboutus.shtml

    2. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is probably the oppurtunity of a life time for a lot of people to get out of their home country for a while and see the U.S. a little bit.

      And what VISA are they going to use to gain enterance to the US? The article contradicts itself on this point:

      "...and run a 24-hour-a-day programming shop, thereby avoiding H-1B visa hassles while still exploiting offshore labor cost..."

      -verus-

      "Staff can make the three-mile voyage into town in their off hours by calling a water taxi."

      I smell something rotten here. Specifically the usage of the word "staff". As in "American Employees can go ashore when they need a break." Gee, thanks.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    3. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That was my thought as well, but then I realized that they're going to need a LOT of diesel just to keep the lights on. On land, you'd sinply run off the grid. But on a boat, their entire power capacity is going to be supplied by the ships engines or generators. Those aren't quite as power hungry as when the ship is under power, but with the number of electronic toys they're going to need, it's not going to be cheap either.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    4. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by cHiphead · · Score: 5, Interesting

      it sounds like a good platform for testing tidal generators, solar panels, AND that kite based wind generation technique...

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by TGK · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I were them I wouldn't be exploiting the lack of labor laws. You can only expect people to be so productive in something as fundamentaly brain draining as CS if you run them into the ground.

      The lawlessness I'd exploit would be COPYRIGHT. Seriously.... the MPAA and the RIAA have been successfull in shutting down or going after distribution networks, never the root uploaders or the downloaders.

      Set up a blatently illegal server system well off shore, enjoy the benefits of satellite based internet access. Sell movies and music an pennies on the dollar at high quality....

      .
      .
      .

      oh yea....

      3. Profit!

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
    6. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sounds like a business opportunity to me. Set up SeaWhores and park it close by.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    7. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by alekd · · Score: 5, Interesting
      they're going to need a LOT of diesel just to keep the lights on. On land, you'd sinply run off the grid. But on a boat, their entire power capacity is going to be supplied by the ships engines or generators.

      This does not really add to the cost of doing business compared to what it would be in India as the power grid there is so unreliable that most IT shops need their own generators. Ships often use cheaper bunker oil instead of diesel so it might even work out to their advantage.

    8. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by DavidTC · · Score: 5, Informative
      Yeah, I think people are confused as to how 'international waters' works.

      Ships have to sale under the flag of a nation. If they do so, they are legally part of that nation, and have to heave to and let the coast guard and navy of that nation board. They can be punished for crimes committed.

      It's just that a lot of crimes are state or local crimes in the US, and don't exist at sea, and of course unless you're on a cruise ship, there's no one to enforce laws anyway. But try to get away with murder and claim you're in international waters...

      The other option is to sale under no flag. At which point you're a pirate vessel, you can't dock anywhere except a few quasilegal ports, and not only can any military board you, they can legally just sink you if they feel like it. (Legally according to international law, that is. Possibly not according to their own law.)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    9. Re:Is it April Fools Day? by joebok · · Score: 5, Funny

      How about security and piracy.

      No kidding - this is really going to confuse the issue! What if some of those engineers download some pre-released movies and then Blackbeard hijacks their ship? Would he get an extra 3 years tacked on to his sentence?

  2. So... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 5, Funny
    So this means the Coast Guard won't save their ass? Finally...about time we scurvy seadogs showed the RIAA and MPAA what REAL pirates are! YAAAR!

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  3. Hmm by MrDoh! · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not sure this plan will hold water. I hope they've weighed all the options.

    --
    Waiting for an amusing sig.
  4. Why can't I get this image out of my head.... by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...of a horde of unshowered, dropcloth wearing Indians chained to a deck with oars next to their keyboards...

    (first post?)

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    1. Re:Why can't I get this image out of my head.... by neonfreon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I see a new Bollywood hit coming...

    2. Re:Why can't I get this image out of my head.... by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 5, Funny

      Developers! *thunk* Developers! *thunk* Developers! BGates: RAM speed, Mr. Ballmer. *thunkthunkthunkthunk* DEVELOPERS!DEVELOPERS!DEVELOPERS!

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    3. Re:Why can't I get this image out of my head.... by stev_mccrev · · Score: 5, Funny

      Source code leaks from the ship...

      if (anyone_reads(this)) {
      please->send(help);
      we.are_prisoners_here = true;
      }
  5. Is it just me or is that site slow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Arg! Torpedo to the server room!

  6. A Slashdot First by dcigary · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now, with our awesome Slashdot power, we have now set fire to the servers on the ship, and it is in the process of sinking.

    Good job, everyone! Now, World Domnination is within our grasp!

    --
    ...my Karma ran over your Dogma...
  7. Should we wait... by rk · · Score: 5, Informative

    until they anchor it three miles off the coast to tell them the US claims territorial waters twelve nautical miles off the coast?

    1. Re:Should we wait... by MasterB(G)ates · · Score: 5, Informative

      yep - check out this info. 3 Miles is wayyy too close http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/w1/waters-t.asp

      --
      In the Slashdot moderating system, humourless based offenses are considered especially heinous.
  8. Oh shit awesome by mcc · · Score: 5, Funny

    I totally want to set up a web server there and illegally distribute Windows ISOs from there, just so I can be charged with Piracy on the High Seas

    --
    Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
  9. They need to do their homework... by Bagheera · · Score: 5, Informative

    "International waters" don't start three miles off-shore. The US maritime claims are as follows:

    Maritime claims:
    territorial sea: 12 nm
    contiguous zone: 24 nm
    exclusive economic zone: 200 nm
    continental shelf: not specified

    In other words, they'd have to be at least 12 miles from shore, and possibly (depending on who's doing the interpretation) over 200.

    Also, as far as I'm aware, the ship will have to be flagged somewhere, which means that it's effectively that country's territory when in international waters.

    Someones tax man will find them.

    --
    Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence...
    1. Re:They need to do their homework... by Holi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since the company is incorporated in California, I am sure they will be paying taxes in the US. It has more to do with skirting immigration laws and visas then evading taxes. That, and OSHA requirements and wage laws.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  10. Baloney by dpud1234 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This must be a fake ....

    Notice how their first "Company News" lists an Article-FORBES with no link. If you go to Forbes.com and search their site for "SeaCode" you get: "Sorry, your search for SeaCode did not return any Documents. Please revise your search and try again."

    Besides, 3.1 miles makes no sense as your not in international waters.

    1. Re:Baloney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yah, I can't understand how anyone is buying this crap. The logistics simply don't work. Cruise ships cannot remain offshore -- not even 200 feet offshore -- for more than a few weeks. You can't reprovision these things with tenders. You can't scrape and paint the bottom with dolphins. It's a giant expense for no particular purpose. A cruise ship costs many many many millions of dollars a year to operate, just sitting there.

      Nobody can quite figure out what restrictions they're avoiding 3.1 miles offshore anyways. Their chart shows them INSHORE of Catalina Island, for god's sake. They're in Los Angeles County.

      These guys are scamming the press, and laughing their asses off.

  11. Don't be silly! by switcha · · Score: 5, Funny
    Does anyone have the authority to make sure that it's not (child) slave labor?

    Oh, come on. No one would hire child slave labor! Everyone knows child slaves are horrible at commenting their code.

    --
    You know what? ... A little club soda *did* get that out!
  12. Re:Should we wait... Gues they better tell CIA too by xski · · Score: 5, Informative


    CIA Factbook

    Maritime claims:
    territorial sea: 12 nm
    contiguous zone: 24 nm
    exclusive economic zone: 200 nm
    continental shelf: not specified

  13. Re:Is it April Fools Day? - must be by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Umm... no. The ship, being of US registry, can be confiscated and searched by US authorities. Not to mention that the US *has* enforced its borders beyond its 3 mile claim in the past.

    --
    Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
  14. I hereby christen their second ship by katana · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sea++.

    Thank you. I'm here all week.

  15. New excuse for delayed releases: by Clark_Griswold · · Score: 5, Funny



    Scurvy.

    --
    -- Mace only makes me hornier.
  16. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The RIAA was reported to be in negotiations to purchase a "kilo" class submarine from the former Soviet Union.

    A spokesman for the RIAA said that while they could afford it, a nuclear sub was not necessary. "We will only be going out three miles or so, so a diesel sub will do just fine".