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Ditching Microsoft Could Save Education Millions
ElvenMonkey writes "The Times Education Supplement has published the results of a BECTA (British Educational Communications and Technology Association, the Government's ICT agency) study, to be published next week, into the TCO of using Microsoft products compared to using Open Source products. The report shows an average saving of 24% per computer in schools using Open Source over those using Microsoft systems. Now if only the government wasn't insistent on locking schools into using Microsoft in arguably illegal ways."
Perhaps the support costs as the schools using free software were lower because their staff was a lot smarter to begin with? ;-)
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Maybe schools want to pay money for Microsoft's programs for every computer because they *think* the quality of it will be better than the open-source because it costs money, and you get what you pay for. Though this certainly isn't really the case.
"Now if only the government wasn't insistent on locking schools into using Microsoft in arguably illegal ways."
So it was OK for my city's entire public school system and library system to lock me into using Apples all the way up until my senior year, but it's not OK to lock people into using Windows? Apple has long been known for educational discounts in exchange for school systems agreeing to use Apple exclusively and pressure their students into buying them. It happened to many friends of mine and almost happened to me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not the president of the MS fan club or anything, but I gotta say it was really really annoying having to be programming in nothing but BASIC on IIgs's in 1991. I was overjoyed when our school was the chosen pilot for the PC program - I learned a lot more about computers a lot more quickly.
That said, locking students into any one system is bad. I say, have a Mac, a Winbox, and linux box all running side by side and let the students decide which one they want to use. Let them, to coin a phrase, compete in the marketplace of ideas. Isn't competition the American way?
They will never stop until somebody makes the
Think how much they would save if they just got rid of the computers.
It's too bad we can't experiment on children the way we do with lab rats. I'd like to see two nearly identical student bodies -- one with computers, and one without -- and see which really gets further in life. Since the invention of the blackboard, elementary and high school educators have always clamored for the latest gadgets, and sulked when they don't get it. I sometimes wonder if they get more than they need, especially when I see high schools with broadcast radio and cable TV stations. Maybe I'm just getting old.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
At my son's school, there is a computer literacy test which students must pass to graduate. So what is the requirement for computer literacy? Writing a shell program? Creating a home page using HTML? Writing a business letter? No, of course not. The student must demonstrate that they know how to use Microsoft Word, Microsoft PowerPoint, and Microsoft Excel. I'm fairly certain that such a requirement would not hold up in court, but where did it come from in the first place?
Now our high school graduate applies for a job (with better interview skills)
Can you use Excel?
I can use several spreadsheet programs, and can even develop complex math functions.
Can you use Word?
I have experience with several word processing tools, and can help the company by ensuring that documents transfer well between programs.
Can you use Windows?
I have extensive experience with windows environments and graphical interfaces, and can even use a computer when those interfaces fail.
Thanks, can you start Monday?
spreadsheet and word type programs are not so alien to each other as to not confer skillsets to transfer easiliy.
OpenOffice, Koffice. and crossover to run MS office.
whats important, is to learn how to use a computer, the how and whys. leanr the basics of what a spread is how it works and you will be able to use any spreadsheet quickly.
-Nex6
Every corp I worked for in the last 12 years:
AVIS Rent a Car,
Red Sky Interactive (Dot Com failure so maybe they don't count?)
Mens Wearhouse
Hertz Rent A Car
FAA
All of the big app servers have been Solaris or Linux or AIX..... Granted they had windows desktops, windows servers for Peoplesoft, but all the Oracle/DB2, Java App server, Transaction management, Messanging etc.. Everything I actully wrote code on/for was some kind of *nix box.
So I keep hearing about the importantance of knowing Office etc.. I could see that it has some value, but I have NEVER hired anyone nor been hired myself based any kind of m$ office skills....
If somone is smart and can learn Word perfect or open Off or m$ off, then they can easily learn another package.
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
To date (12 years in the tech world) I have only once been to a job interview that didn't end with a job offer. Every one of those interviews included questions like "Can you use tool x?", and I have found that most HR guys are actually smart enough to see that if I can use tool y, tool z, and if necessary code my own tool, I can probably handle tool x. The interview is about understanding the company's needs and offering solutions to those needs.
That's not evading or being dishonest, it's showing the interviewer how my skill set is relevant and helpful.
> Give the money to the teachers to higher a better staff, THEN you will
> have more well informed children. God if they paid $60K+ starting to
> teach, think of the people they could have instructing.
If the same 'teaching establishment' were in charge nothing would change except pissing away a lot of money to the same semi-literate hacks we have now.
Education won't improve until the unions are broken so the incompetents with tenure can be sacked and people with a Phd in Math can teach without spending four more years learning how to 'teach.' (read jumping the artificial hurdle the unions use to keep their incompetents from competing with those with skill and motivation.)
Education still won't change until the massive overhead is slashed. Preferably by privitizing the schools because so long as they are government run they must be political instituitions. Not that private universities aren't also infested with PC bullcrap but there ARE private instituitions of higher learning out there that actually teach if one is motivated to search them out. WIth a virtual government run monopoly on primary and secondary education that isn't nearly as easy. Unless you are a rich Democrat congressman. (cheap shot)
Democrat delenda est
For a case study with costings (in fact it was used to illustrate the lead story in the Times Educational Supplement print edition), Orwell High School in Felixstowe is hard to beat. Then again I would say that, wouldn't I, since I was involved in implementing it. Their savings amount to very much more than the modest 20% to 40% mentioned in the TES article. The case study is att _benefit.php.
http://cutterproject.co.uk/Casestudies/orwell_cos
The school has costed its savings at 40,000 pounds (UK) per year - or in the region of US$70,000 I guess.
There is something really pleasing in seeing five classroms of 30 or so kids each sit down and use a Linux desktop as the most natural thing in the world.
> I hope libraries take note of this as well as schools... If libraries
> aren't the standard-bearer for interoperable Web sites, document
> formats, and any other kind of information exchange, who will be?
Well our library was more than happy to accept Bill & Melinda's generous contributions. For the time the hardware was pretty solid midrange and ran our Linux based patron model quite nicely. And even though the software licenses were a joke (locked to both the hardware AND the library but counted as a donation of a full copy) we still ran it on select workstations via VMWare for those who needed more Office compatibility than the Linux solutions offered.
And the server they provided is still in service to this day. For several years it ran all of our world accessable Internet services including DNS, email web, ntp, etc. Now it still serves as a web proxy. Very nice little Gateway/ALR box.
So hurray for the Gates Library Foundation. We aren't rich and a big stack o' stuff won't be turned down at our back door. Yes I know they intended to lock people in, and did at a lot of sites across the state, but that is the fault of those who don't think things through. Besides those people would still be just as locked to Microsoft, they just wouldn't have as many workstations deployed.
Same ol problem of for most people they don't PICK Windows, they default to it without even pondering the question of whether or not there is even a choice to make.
And no, Apple doesn't count for large installs so STFU all Mac zealots. Anybody who hadn't installed patron PCs before Bill started tossing them off a truck certainly would never write the check for Macs. Besides, around here Macs are more rare than Linux boxes since the closest place to see one is a Sears about 50 miles away that puts one out from time to time but all of their salesmen tell you "not to buy that wierd thing corporate keeps sending out".
Democrat delenda est
FWIW, I know quite a few elementary teachers who are no longer teaching because of POLITICS and BAD DECISION MAKING. None of these got out due to low pay.
Once at a party, a group of teachers who had left teaching were asked by someone of your mindset (ie, increasing the pay of teachers would "help") and they all said, each and every one, that the pay had nothing whatsoever to do with why they were leaving.
I know several PhD level scientists who have left teaching for precisely the same reason. I myself (PhD, Chemistry) would consider teaching high school, but not with the current state of politics in the school boards (and the union). Money has nothing to do with it.
In my opinion, your thesis that higher pay would attract 'better' teachers is a guess at best. Teachers salaries DO increase, but the quality remains low. Especially in science and math. Many professionals in educations are starting to figure this out, and money really is not the issue.
My two cents (taught at two universities, one college and one tech college, physics and chemistry).
Computational Chemistry products and services.
Following up --
You're absolutely right, things may be (hopefully will be) different in the future. In fact, my judgement is a bit skewed already since I haven't worked for a high school in a few years now, so maybe things have gotten better.
I would have loved to have taken notes on a computer in high school -- hell, I would've taken more notes, period. But unless the school were to supply every student with their own laptop, that just doesn't seem feasible...and schools that can afford that are few and far between.
I guess my biggest problem with the whole thing is the lack of vision and direction that school administrators have when it comes to technology. It's been said a million times on here, but computers are seen as the savior -- turn them on, and the students are smarter. For some of us, we'll explore with IRC and ICQ and a hundred other applications and learn things from them...for most, well...
It's frustrating to see thousands of dollars thrown at a problem with no idea how to effectively use them when in the meantime entry level teachers are making practically nothing; good teachers are constantly frustrated by incompetent administrators and apathetic parents; and bad teachers, well, everywhere.
Responding to the interactive whiteboard comment above -- yes, they're extremely cool. We had one at my school and exactly two people ever used it -- me, and the superintendent who purchased it. Nobody else knew how, nobody else wanted to learn how, nobody else cared.
Sorry for the unstructured rant, especially since I do largely agree with your comment, but education is a sore spot for me, I guess.
-gabey
Wow, all the math PhD's I know seem to actually love stooping to the level of the people they're working for. They teach with great gusto, and most likely do have tenure. 'course, I ain't never had someone with a PhD teach me in highschool, just University. 'course, they're also profs, not teachers. Generally if someone takes the time to get a PhD, they avoid teaching at the high school level and below. At least that's been my experience.
Y'know, with the amount of work that a lot of teachers do (except for the really shitty ones, thank the unions for them sticking around), they actually make less than minimum wage. Do you honestly think the only time a teacher does work is when they're with the chilluns? There's planning the classes, correcting crap, writing tests and shit like that... dealing with the parents of children... meetings... Then the summer holiday where quite a few, again in my experience, spend most of the summer getting their classrooms ready for the next year.