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Wine Now Has Big-Time Lawyers On Its Side
Roblimo writes "For years there's been fear that the Wine Project would get sued by Microsoft at some point, and this fear has kept IBM and other major free software-using companies from participating openly in it. Now the Software Freedom Law Center, headed by Columbia University law professor Eben Moglen, is offering free legal services to Wine (and other FOSS projects) to allay corporate fears and head off potential lawsuits."
From all of us, thanks.
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
Ironically, this might be exactly what will trigger lawsuits against wine.
Microsoft: "Hey, they have backing now, we should go after them"
My question is "what's their interest?".
I don't think this is a bad thing, just curious.
Is the free software movement gaining enough public exposure that helping it is seen as contributing to the public good?
Are we approaching a tipping point in the perception of FOSS?
here's hoping.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Isn't the real fear for businesses (IBM and other free software using companies) is getting entangled in long, lengthy and technical litigation (see SCO v. Everyone) which can still (and does) happen no matter how great of representation someone has?
Sure...I might not choose to run Windows, but that doesn't mean I won't chosoe to run Office or something else from Microsoft that Wine will enable. I run a Linux Desktop at work but use CrossOver to run Office, and at home I have to use Wine for some of my kids games. I think Microsoft would say "well, we might not get all of their business, but we'll take what we can get." From a business standpoint, that would seem to make more sense. But then again, we're talking about Microsoft.
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
Because we all know Microsoft can't afford lawyers.
Surely MS haven't sued simply because they can see no legal grounds to do so. Otherwise they would have used this against Lindows.
Not trolling here, and neither AIAL (am I a lawyer), but can Wine be sued for reverse engineering (definition may vary) Windows APIs/functionality under the DMCA?
From what we've seen in the past, even something as simple/straightforward like pressing the shift key can be construed as "intentionally breaking copy protection mechanisms" by sue-happy companies.
Is reverse engineering document formats (OpenOffice), OS APIs (Wine), illegal under the DMCA, or can it be spun as such?
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I wonder why Microsoft wouldn't actually PARTICIPATE in this project, or even write a low-cost version of it's own to (yes, I'm going to say it on Slashdot) sell.
Sure, it's kind of stabbing it's main flagship product in the back, but isn't that what their "Windows Lite" for the Asian markets do?
Since Indian companies are creating little cheap Linux laptops/computers, Asian companies are selling little cheap Linux computers, why would Microsoft not sell a $35 add-on for Linux, tightly registration controlled (Yes, I said that, too) that allows Microsoft-compiled applications to run on Linux.
Don't jump on me for saying Microsoft should write for Linux. Of course they should. It's unfathomable that they DONT support Linux. Heck, even monolithic old NOVELL is supporting their products on the triad of main OS'es now. Linux, MS-WIN and Mac. They're even migrating Netware to a Linux base.
= Grow a brain...
Is that really the case that IBM and "other big companies" did not get involved with Wine because they feared litigation? Can anyone provide a source on this please?
"Man what a jip, false advertising!"
I thought this story was about internet wine sales finally being legalized!
Does anyone seriously think IBM are overly concerned about being sued by Microsoft if they contributed to wine. The most likely reason they dont is because its just not interesting form them, just like its not interesting for most companies.
Would someone like to post list of FOSS projects that have been killed due to litigation, or even threat of litigation. I assume this list must be quite lengthy given the amount slashdotters bang on about it.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Hear that? That's the sound of Microsoft shaking in its boots. Really! Can you hear it?
Yeah, me neither.
I'm sorry, that's rude, but the big problem with lawsuits isn't just having one thrown at you, it's the long and drawn-out process of having to see it all the way through to the end. Forget about the merits of the case, if you've got a lawsuit coming, and you're small, you're a hell of a lot less worried about a guilty verdict and a hell of a lot more worried about going bankrupt, because in the big time lawyers prey on fears of the latter more than the former.
If Microsoft wants to sue, they're going to do it whether or not there's a bunch of lawyers working pro bono on the case. You'd need an entire army of tech-minded geeks engaging in "open source law" (in quotes not to refer to open source software, but to "open source journalism", which was a pretty horrible catch-phrase but analogous to this situation...). In which case, maybe this dept could act as a sort of marshalling station.
But still, if they were thinking about dropping the gauntlet before, they're not going to be deterred now.
I would have thought that IBM etc. don't get involved because it's better to produce your own applications than reproduce the 'chasing a moving target' scenario which was the exact thing that killed OS/2.
I applaud this effort, but I think people should also look at the larger picture.
We need to think about representation in the government. Lawyers can defend within the boundaries of the law. But, what laws will they have to fight? What laws will protect them?
From patent law to the fight for telecommunications control there are important decisions being made by our government. I think that there are a lot of special interests being served. The OSS movement needs a voice in Washington and even at the state level.
I really hate seeing so many industry-driven bills going before congress. Many decisions will affect the way you design software, use the internet, and even watch television. There are a lot of college grads who can't immediately finding work. Send them out to represent the needs and desires of the OSS community.
I didn't know that it was possible to be awarded the opposing lawyers' assets in a lawsuit.
We've secretly replaced Slashdot with new Folgers Crystals - let's see if it notices.
I disagree. Caring about the issues means that you have an activist, not a lawyer. If that individual (activist) changes his mind, dies, has other concerns, etc.--your support dries up.
I'd much prefer that the larger community see its interests connected to mine. In this case, my interest being the health of the FOSS movement.
The little guy (FOSS) can win battles by winning converts. But winning hearts and minds takes resources. The little guy, by definition, is little.
The little guy wins the WAR by co-opting the power of the big guys. Appeal to the self-interest of the big guys. If a powerful legal organization sees helping FOSS as an easy way to satisfy some pro-bono requirement and get some exposure, then it doesn't matter if a particluar lawyer is a GNU fan.
Judo.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Thanks to Wine for making sure Windows programs dominate the Linux desktop
While I understand your argument, it DOES also make switching easier. I use wine (actually cxoffice) on my gentoo box. It allowed me to switch from windows quickly and fairly easily. As time goes on and I find OSS projects that I like to use instead of the windows app under wine I switch to them. There are still some that I haven't found replacments that I like for so I use the windows apss. There are a number of windows apps i have stopped using for OSS replacments. If it wern't for cxoffice i would have had to switch all my programs at once, which would have been a huge task, perhapse large enough to make me think it was just easier to deal with windows then to make the switch.
So WINE now has free legal representation. Microsoft has tens of billions of dollars and high priced lawyers. Hey folks, here's a bit of comparison: Bill's probably spending more on XBOX360 than the government of Canada did on its yearly budget!
Saying this is a david vs goliath situation isn't even close to accurate.
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
1. IBM has no lawyers?
2. IBM is scared of Microsoft's lawyers?
What on earth? Yes, this is great for Wine, but the idea that this somehow changes IBM's view of Wine is so naive it's almost hard to believe this hit the front page of Slashdot.
Let's go over this again.
IBM have more legal experience and probably more lawyers than the rest of the IT industry put together. If they don't support Wine it's for reasons other than "fear of lawsuits". Perhaps IBM are betting on Java, and Wine is kind of irrelevant in the Java view of things.
Companies that sue IBM tend to be very short-lived. They are either SCO-style attack dogs, or pure patent claim firms. Any real IT company that sues IBM will find itself in sudden and extremely expensive violation of more patents than they knew possible.
The article's premise is BS. The rest is interesting though.
My blog
The legal support is free. So the fact that Wine has legal support now does not in any way mean that they suddenly also have money.
If there is a lawsuit and Wine loses Microsoft doesn't get to take the lawyers to the cleaners.
So this development does not mean there is any more money to gain from Microsoft's point of view.
I'm not disagreeing with your statement. I'm just wondering out loud. Why does this stuff always have to come down to money? It would be great if we could just dump all the business interests from computing and just focus on making great software. I do this stuff because I love it and making money from it just happens to be incidental. To me, it's a lot like being a musician. You are either a musician who makes music because you love music, or you're a hack who gets into music to "make it big" and get paid. Personally, I associate myself with the more honest make music (or software) because you like doing it. If you happen to make money then consider yourself lucky.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
What is the standing of their GPL compliance?
He is the lawyer who helped to write the GPL that nobody (even SCO) will test in court and made it so airtight legally. He's been doing things like this for the FSF for years. He's also working on the GPL3, and I think this represents him making the kinds of services he's been providing to the FSF available for all of FOSS. I don't think there's anything nefarious or strange going on here.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
First, this will mean that more programs will get support. (Applications like AutoCAD, which doesn't quite work yet.)
Second, since I started using the Mac, I've become interested in the Darwine project, which aims to make Windows programs run on the Mac without running Windows in an emulator; this project aims to combine Qemu and Wine to run the Wine code natively on the Mac iron while emulating only the application code. Big support behind Wine will likely mean a better Windows-like operating layer not only on x86 systems running, say, Linux, but also on non-x86 systems that are candidates for running the occasional Windows program.
Third, IBM has OS/2 code, which contains some of the same code as Windows itself. I'm not saying that IBM could submit that code directly into Wine, but IBM could have a clean-room implementation of some of the most important functions, using a plain-English specification written by programmers with access to the code. Not to mention that it means a lot of Wine bugs will get fixed. This is good news!
Isn't Mono sponsered/supported by Novell?
p r04045.html
http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2004/06/
You can have your god back when you are old enough to handle the responsibility.
That's kind of a frightening prospect. It implies that what we have is a world made of people who don't honestly enjoy their professions. I know that this is true, but it's not a good reflection on the state of the human race. Of course, I'm not advocating selflessness as a motivation. I'm simply saying that people should love their jobs otherwise they should try to find something more suitable to their personalities even if it means less money.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I use Wine all the time.
Kind of, anyways. I use Cedega, Transgaming's not-totally-free wine branch focused on gaming.
It means I can play many of the Windows games I want to play on Linux.
I happily live in a MS free household. I still play games on my PC, games that wouldn't be possible on a console (RTS, and MMORPG).
TransgamingWine relations are rocky sometimes, but I'm glad both communities are around. They make my life easier.
Sure, it'd be nice if all the developers built Linux versions of their games/apps. But if they find out a significant portion of the user base runs on Wine, they start trying to run their apps inside the company on Wine (some random developer almost always picks it up (Blizzard with World of Warcraft, and I know Secondlife developers have played with it).
Now there's talk of internal attempts to build native linux clients for both World of Warcraft (there was an early beta, but never a release), and Secondlife promises eventual linux support.
Using Windows games/apps on Linux, inside of Wine, demonstrates to developers that there is, indeed, a market for native versions.
Truly, its the best counter argument to "Linux is not a gaming platform, stick it Windows".
I do not believe that it makes developers lazy, and only code for Windows. They were only coding for Windows before; Linux efforts have one way to go, up.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
What did you find easy to find Linux alternatives for and what Windows apps do you need? Do you use any proprietary Linux apps?
Am I the only developer who was threatened with a lawsuit by the BSA for violating the license agreement on Office 97, which stated that you may only run Office 97 on a license Microsoft OS?
The problem, of course, was that I was playing with Wine (95) and was therefore running Office '97 on something that was NOT a licensed Microsoft OS.
I only wanted to use Power Point, which had no copmetitors that I could find in 1998. (Microsoft had a true monopoly.)
I filed a complaint under the Sherman anti-trust act for Micrsoft using one monopoly (Power-Point, which had no competitors, and did not even have a generic term like "presentation software" applied to it in 1998) to try to create another monopoly (Windows in the Operating System market.)
Maybe I'm the only one who remembers, but I'm still MILITANTLY anti-Microsoft to this day.
They comitted feolnies, and the Justice Department ignored their real wrongdoing for years. I wonder why? The DOJ seemed to do this long investigation and never found anything I thought was worth pursuing, when you only had to glance at the Office '97 license agreement to find a felony.
Andy Out!