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Xbox 360 Backwards Compatible?

Posted by Zonk on from the i-certainly-hope-so dept.

Gamespot is reporting that, on the OurColony.net 360 footage, current generation Xbox titles are viewable being played on the 360 console. From the article: "There is also a screenshot of the new Xbox Live dashboard with the words 'Xbox 1 Zone' clearly marked and an icon of the current Xbox title Fable. Finally, a screenshot of the forthcoming Xbox Live Marketplace clearly shows Halo 2 maps being offered for download. However, while such shots imply backward compatibility, such functionality is not yet official. Microsoft executives have said themselves they cannot address the issue until next Monday's media event at E3--at the earliest."

16 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. Direct X by biryokumaru · · Score: 2, Informative
    They say that DirectX is entirely backwards compatible, but I tried to play Deus Ex: Invisible War the other day (which was built around DirectX 8.1) and it kept crashing. A little googling showed that DX:IW won't run with DirectX 9. I'd have to reformat and install everything with DirectX 8.1 if I wanted to play that game. (I'm aware of alternatives to reformatting, but thats not really my point)

    How much you wanna bet that XBox will be as backwards compatible as DirectX?

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    1. Re:Direct X by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2, Informative

      DX:IW runs fine on my system with DirectX 9.0c (GeForce 6600GT).

      So do a lot of other older games.

  2. But (dare I ask) .. why? by justin_saunders · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who cares? If you love your old XBOX games that much, just keep it and play your old XBOX games on it. This feature seems to be just another "tick" for the marketdroids to put in the box.

    I ask this in all seriousness. The only time I used it on my PS2 was to see if it actually worked (It did! yay! ..er now I'll go play GTA3).

    So is there a good reason for 90% of people to care about backward compatibility?

    ps I don't own an XBOX yet so I'm trying to be objective here.

    --

    "My cat's breath smells like cat food." - The Tao of Ralph Wiggum.
    1. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by screwballicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who cares? If you love your old XBOX games that much, just keep it and play your old XBOX games on it. This feature seems to be just another "tick" for the marketdroids to put in the box.

      Believe me, for people like me, with seven gaming systems currently plugged into the home theatre system, reducing that number by one, especially when that one system is a system as space-hungry as the Xbox is worth something. If it doesn't cost much to make that possible, terrific.

    2. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by Jarlsberg · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So is there a good reason for 90% of people to care about backward compatibility?
      I rarely ever play PS1 games on my PS2, but that's because IMHO there are so few good PS1 games. The Xbox has quite a few good games that I could see myself playing some time down the road, so it's good if I don't have to keep both Xboxes plugged in (or at hand) at all times. 'Course, my xbox is modded and I use it for media playback all the time, so it's unlikely I'll part with it until the Xbox2 can be modded :).

      Nintendo is another good example. The Nintendo DS and the Gameboy Advance can load just about every game cartridge produced for the Nintendo gameboy line, and I really like that. You get a better playing experience on the Gameboy Advance SP than on the non backlit Gameboy/Gameboy color and you don't need to keep the old handhelds around (though I still do it, for nostalgia's sake).

      So, yeah, I think there are several good reasons for backwards compatibility. :)

    3. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by seinman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You seem to be assuming that everyone already owns the original Xbox. Backwards compatibility is for people who don't have the first system. I only have a GameCube now, and if I decide to buy the new Xbox, it would be nice to be able to play the already large library of games. You're right that it doesn't matter to current Xbox owners, but that isn't who the feature is aimed at.

    4. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by nathanh · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Who cares? If you love your old XBOX games that much, just keep it and play your old XBOX games on it. This feature seems to be just another "tick" for the marketdroids to put in the box.

      For people who don't already have an Xbox, backwards compatibility is a big selling point. It means that instead of a mere 20+ games there are potentially 1000s of games at launch.

    5. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by ignorant_coward · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Because the incremental cost of providing emulation is probably compensated by the increased sales resulting from that emulation. It gives the console a huge initial boost in games, it gives future XBox owners access to fun games that haven't been remade for the 360, and it provides "investment protection" for existing XBox owners who don't want to have both consoles hooked up.

      I'd bet the market for PS1 games on the PS2 was huge. I'm responsible for at least a half-dozen PS1 game purchases, which multiplied by potentially millions of similar buyers, is not chump change. Even though I bought them all on sale, it drives volume at the stores, at the manufacturers, etc. Everybody wins.

    6. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by earthbound+kid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The DS can't play Game Boy original-system games, which is a shame, since in my opinion the Game Boy version of Tetris is the best ever. I keep an SP around just to play it.

    7. Re:But (dare I ask) .. why? by Jagasian · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most people don't realize this, but the GBA had backwards compatibility with GB, SGB, and GBC games by including a Gameboy Color on a chip. The older gameboy carts are larger and have a different voltage, so when they are in, the hardware activates the GBC on a chip. When GBA games are in the slot, it activates the GBA circuitry. Both can't be active at the same time. Since many people like to use Flash carts for the GBA, so that they can make a game playlist of their favorite titles, similar to how an MP3 player lets you make a music playlist of your favorite tunes, all without lugging around the original media... work began on an unofficial, yet high-quality Gameboy emulator for the Gameboy Advance, so that people could use a GBA flash cart to include a playlist of their favorite GBA titles as well as their favorite GBC, SGB, and GB titles.

      Little did people know at the time that the GBC-on-a-chip would be done away with in Nintendo's next portable. Hence the Gameboy emulator for the GBA became even more important.

      So to play old (non-Advance) Gameboy games on a DS, get a GBA flash cart. Put Goomba (GB emulator for the GBA) on it, and then you can play GB and SGB games on your DS. Of course, with the SGB games will play as if they are in a black and white Gameboy and not a Super Gameboy, so you won't get the Super Gameboy enhancements, such as more colors, borders, and other special features.

      There are many other uses for these flash carts than piracy. Rip your own games and make your own multi-carts of your favorite titles. I have a multi-cart containing my favorite NES titles along with my favorite GB titles. So one little cart can fit hundreds of great games. That way I can have a variety of great games (puzzle, action, rpg, racing, shooter, etc) without lugging around handfuls of carts.

      One last note. The Goomba page I linked above is the official site, but it lacks the most recent version, which can be found at the author's personal page. You can also find the latest version of his NES emulator for the GBA.

      Funny how an unofficial NES emulator existed for the GBA long before Nintendo got around to re-releasing their classic series for the GBA. Too little, too late, Nintendo. I still have over 100 NES carts in my closet. I am not about to pay full price for them all over again, and yes I still enjoy playing them.

  3. Speculation by FidelCatsro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I do wonder if the backwards compatability with the Xbox 360 had anything to do with their purchase of connectix in february\march 2003(which was mainly for virtual PC and to be able to sell windows to mac users).
    It looks like the plans were already well underway by that time to use PowerPC based procesors in the Xbox 360 .
    I know most of the VirtualPC codebase is mac specific , but alot of it could be adapted for the purposes of the xbox 360.
    I still don't see how they will manage it without some form of speed hit , if they do manage atall.
    well , we shall have to wait and find out .

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  4. How any game could be backward compatible by JFMulder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Instead of emulating everything, I bet high-profile games and games that are in the platinum selection will simply be ported over to the new architecture. I mean, unless the game used a lot of assembly, the code should pretty much compile from one platform to the other, except for the shader code. So the only thing you have to do is put the old Xbox game in, the 360 reads the DVD header, realizes it's Forza, downloads a game update for it that replaces the executable. Now, when the 360 detects that game, is boots the 360 executable version from the HD or memory card instead of the version from the DVD. After all, all the content can be reused. Only the actual executable and dynamic libraries need to be ported.

    1. Re:How any game could be backward compatible by mrgreen4242 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's a very good idea. I think that it's highly possible a combination of the two would be used. They may included some emulation in the 360, enough so that alot of game work pretty much of the time. Especially older games that may not have been as demanding or used certain difficult to emulate functions. Then for other games, especially very popular ones, they could release new binaries as you suggest.

      Another benefit would be for VERY popular games, the re-released binary could be a $5 (or free :) download that also includes added features, like better anti-aliasing and light effects and what not. Something more than the original, but not quite the quality of a new 360 game. Think Halo 2 on this one. It would be an easy way to make a few bucks, and add some "new" launch titles.

      Come to think of it, $5 upgrades to say 10 very popular games could be counted as 10 extra release titles, which would make the marketing drones VERY happy. ("XBox360 launched with 25 titles, more than the Revolution and PS3 combined").

    2. Re:How any game could be backward compatible by ckelly5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, I learned at an MS infomational talk back when the Xbox came out that all Xbox games have the entire OS on the game disc, and that is used to load up when the game is inserted in the drive. It's a lot like inserting an OS install disc in your computer and having it boot into the installer (or something like knoppix where it just boots into the OS). Your proposed solution works ok, until you think about how there are hundreds (thousands?) of Xbox titles out there, and each one would need updated libraries/ exes. Telling all your third party devs that they need to go back and create new exes is a LOT to ask. I think you're right on in that the 360 will detect the disc difference, but I'd have to imagine that there's some sort of VirtualPC-type emulation magic going on under the hood, rather than having an online library of all the updated exes ready for download. The 360 should have more than enough horsepower to emulate the original xbox, and MS did buy VirtualPC, arguably the best PC/ Windows emulator for the Mac platform, which is very similar to the 360 from an architecture standpoint.

  5. Re:Controller... by alphaseven · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are two new shoulder buttons located above the triggers on the 360 controller, they could probably serve as the black and white buttons.

  6. mod parent up by Neuticle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Xbox360 might be able to emulate a 733Mhz PIII ok, but the first Xbox(180 degrees?) is MUCH more than just that one chip - It's a tightly integrated GPU-chipset-memory-CPU setup with LOTS of specific hooks and tweaks and Nvidia copy-righted whiz-bang that games were highly optimized to.

    The Xbox360 CPU must emulate the whole machine, not just the PIII part. The Nvidia graphics stuff will not be able to be offloaded onto a very different ATI chip, for legal and technical reasons. The whole platform must be emulated.

    Now a high-end Dual-G5 can emulate a PIII at ~600Mhz, WITHOUT 3D graphics. Factor in how much less efficient CPUs are a with graphics rendering (ever try playing HL2 or Doom3 with a software renderer?). An example of this are N64 emulators and MAME: All 3D is done with the CPU and it takes a really fast machine today to play stuff from last generation. Current gen stuff runs like a slide-show, if at all.

    If they pull this off, MS deserves a golf clap.

    --
    "Cheeze it!" - Bender