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25 Years After DOS - Lessons for Linux?

E IS mC(Square) writes "Microsoft is planning to celebrate 25 years of DOS. An article at ReallyLinux discusses what lessons Linux can learn from the history of DOS. The article begins with 'What can the Linux world learn from Microsoft's past 25 years of unique experiences and domination?', and ends with 'Only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?'" From the article: "First, we must admit openly once and for all that the 'best solution' is not always the 'most used solution.' There are few who would be foolish enough to argue that back in 1981 PC-DOS was the best solution. There were obviously a number of choices. PC-DOS was the least robust, the most temperamental, and arguably not very compatible with the IBM hardware and BIOS it was sold to work on. Yet, somewhat like the odd but obvious dominance of the VHS over BETA, this simple, cheap OS stole the show."

68 of 584 comments (clear)

  1. Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whoever has the most capital and the best marketability owns the market.

    1. Re:Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Go back and reread your Adam Smith. The best supplier wins, where best entails a number of factors (cheapest, enough quantity, provides the thing the consumers want, etc).

      Michael

    2. Re:Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is why "Big Blue" IBM soundly defeated startup Microsoft in the OS wars of the early 90s, right?

      After seeing the OS/2 Fiesta Bowl Halftime Celebration, the sheep couldn't resist.

    3. Re:Capitalism by Michalson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It sure didn't help IBM. Remember, even by the early Windows days IBM was still the bigger company with far more weight to pull around, yet their dislike of the personal computing market (vs Microsoft's strategy of making the market even bigger - "I want my next computer preinstalled", which opened the market up to non-hobbyists; "Internet out of the box Windows 95" [bundled TCP/IP stack, dialup networking and browser, all of which used to be seperately purchased accessories], which let the PC directly compete in the new internet user market, much to the displease of Oracle and their vision of an internet dumb terminal, and various other visions like WebTV) doomed them to failure no matter how much money and "you can't go wrong with IBM" they had to throw around.

      While capital and existing marketability help (Apple shows us the second can be leveraged quite a bit), the perhaps more correct factors are accessability and "it does it now, not later"

    4. Re:Capitalism by Michalson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      OS/2 was ahead of it's time, containing many of the features that would later help Windows 95 (and no, it didn't come out too soon to take advantage of them), however it was hobbled by IBM's lack of internet in the home market.

      First, while IBM had a full licence deal to use Windows 3.1 (a bit remaining from the whole OS2/NT partnership), they made no real effort to make it work well inside their fancy 32bit OS (starting Windows programs resulted in a copy of Windows 3.1 actually being booted up just for that program). The care taken for supporting old DOS programs (which they didn't need Microsoft's help for) was even worse - while Windows 95 needed tweaking options too, OS/2 presented users with a huge checklist that had to have been literally copied straight from the constant names in the C header file (the option names even included the underscore). The options where so badly labeled that even an expert had a hard time figuring out what each option did, let alone what option should be used to get a program to run. It would have taken less then a day for someone at IBM to actually enter user readable options to run DOS applications - but IBM didn't give a shit.

      Now poor DOS and Windows 3.1 support wouldn't completely doom OS/2. Even Windows 95 only included the (not always working) support so that users and companies could migrate to native 32bit apps. What really helped kill OS/2 Warp was that IBM was still sitting on it's high horse, demanding developers pay them just for the privilege of writing native OS/2 [Warp] applications. In the end OS/2 Warp suffered the self inflicted fate of many of Microsoft's competitors - fantastic platform, pity I can't actually run anything on it (Apple, despite having a strong niche market, fell into much the same trap in the late 80s when it got full of itself and bullied it's own third party developers, reducing them from a 10% market share to just 3% in a matter of years)

    5. Re:Capitalism by digitalunity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ummm. That is not always the case. I've read the Wealth of Nations several times(although not in the last couple of years). Adam Smith had a lot of insight into how a free market can always choose the best outcome automatically. Unfortunately, this was based on several assumptions, not the least of which is that a free market must exist for the best possible outcome to ensue.

      In this case(as the FTA mentioned), Microsoft initially supplied the best product. This does not mean the supplied a superior product in a technical sense, but as a product, it excelled in the factors that meant the most at the time. After their MSDOS and later Windows became entirely ubiquitous, they had a base to leverage their power over the market. This position allowed them to force the market, and thusly the entire IT industry, to use their products over product that were truly superior.

      Adam Smith was only correct with the assumption that consumers are free to choose their suppliers based on the factors that make them a good supplier. With MS's power, in many cases(especially businesses), the market is *not* free to choose other options. This has now, and will continue into the future, stagnated the industry. They are now trapped by the installed base of inferior products, upon which their ubiquity is actually what prevents them from changing suppliers to actually move to the better supplier.

      Adam Smith wasn't wrong, he just assumed too much.

      MikeD

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
  2. Old news... by chroot_james · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This topic has been covered millions of times. "It's not if, it's when Linux will..." and finish the quote with some audacious goal. If Linux can solve the problems, let it. If it can't, then fine. Do we really need to regurgitate this same idea over and over again?

    --
    Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
    1. Re:Old news... by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Corporate America is really too entrenched in Windows at the moment. I'm not talking about small to medium enterprises, I'm talking about Fortune 500. And everybody still needs to do business with them.

      Truthfully, plug and playLinux for business is already here in the form of SUSE. I've thrown it on brand new laptops - several brands - and had everything configured, no problem. But you probably won't find too many in the slashdot crowd praising it, because it's not free.

      The real problem is those damn corporate web apps that the company spent a fortune to have developed - using activeX.

      Not that Java (or anything else, for that matter) perfoms better, but at least it's cross-platform.

  3. sigh by mjsottile77 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?"

    This is the attitude that is going to prevent that from ever happening. I wish the movers and shakers in the Linux world would decide to focus on a subset of the OS market, and do it well, instead of trying to do everything and losing focus of good engineering practices...

    1. Re:sigh by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Losing focus of good engineering practices?

      To go from non-existant to a serious contender in the server market makes it obvious that they are observing such practices.

      GNU and Linux aren't perfect, but they have come a LONG LONG way.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    2. Re:sigh by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To go from non-existant to a serious contender in the server market makes it obvious that they are observing such practices.

      You know, Windows once went from non-existant to a serious contender in the server market too...

    3. Re:sigh by QuestorTapes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > "Only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?"
      >
      > This is the attitude that is going to prevent that from ever happening.

      Agreed. About 20 years ago, many people said: "Only question now is not if but when will -Apple- become the number one -PC computer company- on earth?"

      Apple had the opportunity to dominate, and failed to capitalize on it. No matter -how- good the product, no matter -how- perfect the opportunity, no matter -how- insanely ideal the timing, you can -always- fail to capitalize on it.

      And in many ways the combination of product, opportunity and timing for Linux now is far from as good as the combination for Apple was then.

      Linux might well come to dominate the market. But not because it cannot fail to do so. Failure can -always- happen.

      > I wish the movers and shakers in the Linux world would decide to focus on a subset of the OS
      > market, and do it well, instead of trying to do everything and losing focus of good engineering practices.

      Agreed wholeheartedly. Attitude is important. One significant reason Apple failed to dominate was that Apple and their adherents spent far too much time "waiting for those morons using Micro$oft's OS to wise up and recognize the inherent superiority of -our- product," something that is very common among Linux advocates now. That attitude makes it -very- comfortable to ignore your own inadequacies and disregard thos with legitimate complaints.

      BTW, don't bother flaming me. I think Linux is going to continue to become more important; I just don't agree that dominance is inevitable. If it happens it will be the product of sustained hard work, alertness, and a willingness to admit mistakes and correct them.

    4. Re:sigh by jojo+tdfb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not Linux that's good in servers, it's unix. Unix has always been used for servers. Linux is merely the latest version of unix. If Linux wasn't around servers would run on other variants of unix like they did in the past and still do today.

      Sadly, Linux's biggest strength is that it implements ideas from other oses very well. It just just implements them a few years after everyone else. Kde and Gnome look a lot like very pretty versions Windows 98. The whole Windows on a Dos kernel and X Windows on Linux kernel is a great example. Another example would be how Open Office is slowly implementing everything that MS Office does. I can make a list of programs that run on Windows and programs that reimplement them on Linux all night.

      To make Linux really cool, someone needs to create something for Linux that everyone needs but doesn't exist on Windows or the Mac. I'd do it but I'm on Slashdot waiting for the booze to kick in instead of codeing ;) If someone comes up with anything I'd be willing to help...

      Anyone?

      --
      Linux is really boring from an os standpoint. Now Plan 9......
    5. Re:sigh by IntlHarvester · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple never really had the manufacturing capacity or logistics to dominate the PC market. Even before IBM came on the scene, they'd basically ceded the low-end of the market to Atari and Commodore.

      20 years ago they were technologically dominating the market, but as soon as they decided they weren't going to commodify and license their designs, they were pretty much relegated to the "up-market" niche they hold today. Apple could barely supply their own market -- as people "wised up" to them, they responded by jacking up their margins to a gianormous size to keep the demand down. Which is a perfectly fine business strategy, but you won't get 90% marketshare that way.

      The needs of the masses had to be supplied by open hardware, there was simply no other way. If anything Linux follows the Microsoft model rather than the Apple/Sun one -- run everywhere people want it to run.

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    6. Re:sigh by sugar+and+acid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's really can't work that way. Very simple, what ever is an OSS killer app may be based around linux, but it will have ports to all the other OS's because there is nothing to stop someone porting it. If it is a commercial app, it makes no sense for the company to restrict itself to linux.

      What linux will have in its favour is what it already has, a high quality opensource operating system, to go with other high quality opensource applications as they come into prominence.

    7. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Linux is perfectly poised to fill this gaping vacuum created by potential greed"

      No I say this is the attitude that is going to prevent it from happening. The guy talks about curing desease and saving the world and then says Linux can do it buy giving you an OS for Free. WTF, he must be on crack. For the last fricken time Linux can not and will not save the world. It is an OS as in Operating System. OS's don't save the world and they don't prevent greed. Linux only helps people that can afford computers. So its like the rich helping the rich. Yes, thats right and its the truth too. You know your not helping out some poor family in South America who is living on the streets when you write some script that makes it easier to download your porn. Its better then MS, as in saving you money, but in no way will it ever help out anyone who is poor or ill.

    8. Re:sigh by labratuk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The whole Windows on a Dos kernel and X Windows on Linux kernel is a great example.

      No, it's a terrible example. The only valid common thing in that comparison is that one has something to do with a graphical interface and the other doesn't.

      Kde and Gnome look a lot like very pretty versions Windows 98.

      So.. do they look like Windows 98 or not? If they look prettier than Windows 98, they don't look like Windows 98. WinXP looks like a pretty* version of Windows 98.

      * debatable

      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
    9. Re:sigh by mjsottile77 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      To respond to the responses to my comment...

      Linux itself (the kernel) has frequently been dragged down routes that it shouldn't have simply to suit the needs of tools that run on top of it. A prime example (that supposedly has been dealt with in 2.6) was the /proc filesystem. It was always an ad-hoc set of entries, with no consistent data presentation format, and occasionally, some truly performance-killing requirements (eg: at one time, one had to close and reopen a file handle to get new data. A rewind() should have been sufficient, but didn't work.). These sorts of subtle things just show that the overall design is erratic, and frequently inconsistent since different developers have a different need or agenda that they are coding for. This is *not* a route towards a rock solid OS. Of course, these issues are being dealt with and fixed, but the fact that they occur in the first place is not a good thing.

      Also, take a look at the recent thread on here regarding usability and KDE (and contained in the comments, Gnome). The user interface inconsistencies, flakiness, and generally poor design with respect to users is very sad. From an interface engineering perspective, Linux is near last place out there.

      I believe this interface and kernel problem is not due to an inherently bad system (quite the contrary - Linux is great), but too many agendas and people driving one system in too many directions concurrently. Is Linux going to be a good server OS? What sort of server - a database server with one set of requirements, or a file server with a very different set? Or is it supposed to run on a workstation? How about my palm pilot? Or, how about bashing it into a form that can run on my Nintendo DS? All of these are places have a set of people with a different set of goals, and they're all pulling Linux in their respective directions. What is left? Something that is, without better words, somewhere in the centroid of all of their requirements - and far from the ideal point for any of them.

  4. Not going to happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Have you ever heard...too many cooks spoiled the broth? Same is with Linux...with all the a##holes out their pimping linux to make some money by creating their unique distribution which causes binary incompatibilities and what not...i don't think Linux stands a chance...

    Linux kernel is good but its the user experience that matters for wider adoption...

    1. Re:Not going to happen by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1, Insightful

      For once I actually agree with an AC. There are way too many distributions of Linux. Now before someone say we need 200 distros for the OS to be a success. No, you don't. We are spreading talents way too thin. Everytime a distro dies, it looks bad on the linux name in general. We should cut down to 3 versions only.

  5. PC sales and DOS licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Yet, somewhat like the odd but obvious dominance of the VHS over BETA, this simple, cheap OS stole the show."

    It was easy for DOS to "steal the show". The purchase of every PC basically required a license of this "cheap OS" by order of Mighty Microsoft. And of course that money went straight to them.

    As a poster in the HP/Linux story wrote today, to this day some hardware vendors have contracts with MS that require them to sell a Windows license with every system, even if they're going to run Linux. Maybe THAT is what Microsoft is really celebrating. 25 years and going...

    1. Re:PC sales and DOS licenses by LO0G · · Score: 5, Insightful

      MS-DOS was one of three different operating systems offered on IBM PCs when they first came out.

      And it wasn't even the cheapest one (I believe that was the UCSD P-System).

      But it WAS the only one that ran Lotus 1-2-3.

      It's the apps, silly.

    2. Re:PC sales and DOS licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Nonsense. Microsoft had zero market power when PCs first appeared. In fact, they were the underdog, as CP/M was the established, serious, OS for businesses, and all MS had ever done was some toy BASIC interpreter.

      Only after DOS was dominant could Microsoft dictate mass licensing terms with PC vendors. That cannot explain how they became dominant in the first place.

    3. Re:PC sales and DOS licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Nonsense. Microsoft had zero market power when PCs first appeared. In fact, they were the underdog, as CP/M was the established, serious, OS for businesses, and all MS had ever done was some toy BASIC interpreter.

      Only after DOS was dominant could Microsoft dictate mass licensing terms with PC vendors. That cannot explain how they became dominant in the first place.


      Go back and look at the history of the IBM PC. You're right that Microsoft wasn't an industry powerhouse at the time, but IBM was. It's true that IBM considered the market-leading CP/M at the time. The popular stories say that the late Gary Kildall missed out on a meeting with IBM because he was out flying. More informed versions I've read state that he didn't want to deal with IBM, and intentionally blew them off.

      IBM then saw no choice but to listen to this geeky guy from Washington state who was offering to provide an OS for IBM's new Personal Computer. When Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer met with IBM executives they proposed something unusual. Rather than selling IBM full rights to the OS, they would license it for some set fee for each PC they sold. This was Gates' stroke of genius and IBM's ball and chain. If IBM had refused, MS might not be anywhere near as large and influential today. Oh well, 20/20 hindsight...

  6. Novell Netware by dretay · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Novell 6 still runs on top of Dos. Can anyone explain to me why it is only now with Novell 7 that an operating system that was designed to operate in more than 640k of memory is being used?

  7. You pick your car. . . by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    . . .because the ad told you it was the best selling, don't you?

    Come on, admit it. "Most used" isn't a criteria for Open Source development. MS has very, very little to teach OSS, because they are innately in different worlds. Stop with the "market think" already.

    If, and when, Linux takes over as the most used OS it will be as a side effect. If it does not take over, well, then at least it's a better alternative freely available to anyone.

    Mercedes doesn't feel any obligation to make Escort knockoffs just because more of them are sold, and they are market driven.

    KFG

    1. Re:You pick your car. . . by humankind · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I couldn't agree with you more.

      I believe most people propagating "impending market domination hype" relative to Unix variants aren't even major users of the OS. Those of us whose livlihood depends upon *solid*, *secure* computing performance actually don't give a darn whether Unix becomes universally accepted -- as long as we can use it for ourselves.

      In fact, if I had my way, I'd prefer all my competitors use Windows-based systems. It would give me a major competitive advantage. On the Internet, nobody cares what OS the server you're connecting to is running as long as it performs. And along those lines, Unix servers outperform Windows-based systems exponentially in every category. The only time this would ever be a problem is if I charged by the hour for maintenance and support -- then I can see Windows systems being more appealing. Ultimately, I don't care if Linux wins the desktop war. The best bands don't have #1 records. Since when has the mainstream majority ever been a good judge of character?

  8. It doesn't matter by bblazer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While I am sure that there are lessons to be learned from the history of DOS, I think that the biggest one that has shone itself since then is that it really doesn't matter. What I mean by that is that I do not believe that the future will hold as much singular dominance as it once did. What linux and other OSS projects have taught me is that there are other choices, other solutions for a particular problem. It may be OSS, it may be proprietary. It really doesn't matter. Also what I believe to be tantamount to that is that linux and the OSS community as a whole needs to learn is that users are not going to use difficult products. That is why the GUI came into existence. Most users shunned computers until they had a way of interacting with them that had some intuitiveness to it. Although I am a big linux and OSS supporter, I am constantly amazed at the horrible or non-existant documentation that comes with OSS. Don't even get me started about installation procedures and dependancies. What linux needs to learn if they want a larger market penetration is that no one, other than those willing to devote lots of time to learning how it all works at a low level will adopt it. Make it easy for the masses. Make things work without having to dig around the internet for libraries and other dependancies. Give good documentation - not geek speak.

    --
    My .bashrc can beat up your .bashrc!
  9. Re:Porn by johansalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Windows had rabid piracy, Mac didn't.

  10. When I can run 3D hardware out of the box... by DruggedBunny · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?

    When distro makers license custom 3D drivers to go in their distributions as standard.

    For example, ATI's 9800 driver installation process may suck (I still can't get them to work in any distro I've tried -- I am not a Linux expert by any stretch of the imagination), but if the distro makers want gamers and games developers to join them they're going to have to tackle this problem, even if it means coughing up cold hard cash.

  11. Lesson of DOS: Give Credit Where Credit is Due by reporter · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The lesson of DOS is that we should give credit where credit is due. For those who are not aware, the genesis of DOS began in deceipt and treachery. Gary Kildall had created CPM/86, and it was an outstanding product that incorporated modern techniques of operating systems. Unfortunately, Kildall was more a commited engineer and less a marketing snake, so he brushed off an IBM deal to license CPM/86.

    William Gates was waiting in the wings, and he signed a deal to give IBM an operating system. Then, Gates bought PC-DOS from Seattle Computer Products. An engineer, Tim Paterson, at that company had stolen the ideas of CPM/86 and created a cheap clone of it. PC-DOS was that clone.

    The rest is history. Kildall faded into oblivion, and most people have no idea that he is, in fact, the original inventor of the PC operating system. Meanwhile, billions of people instantly recognize Bill Gates as the "inventor" of the PC operating system. Gates got both the profits and the undeserved fame. Kildall got nothing and drowned in his own bitterness. In the later years of his life, he drank himself into alcoholism and eventually died in a bar.

    The greatest insult was, ultimately, assigning the name "William H. Gates" to the Stanford Computer Science building. It should have been called the "Kildall Memorial Building".

    I have the utmost respect for the volunteers in the open-source movement. I know that they will give credit where credit is due.

  12. Why must Linux win? by gotpaint32 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why must Linux conquer in the end? Microsoft has billions in the warchest, countless corporate alliances, patents, and whatnot. The Beta and VHS discussion was not really about price or technological superiority. It was more about market clout. Sony didn't have wide market support for its format, other companies joined Matsushita to produce VHS systems, which eventually leveled the prices.

    Microsoft continues to dominate with its ties to big OEMs, and on volume sales that these OEMs deal with, Microsoft remains a pretty competitive option for providing support, brand recognition, etc. Plus it doesn't hurt companies and customers that nearly every app written has a version for M$.

    People have been claiming Microsoft dead for years now, just like Apple should have been dead a few years ago. It isn't going to happen. If anything, Microsoft will figure out how to buy Linux and jigger with it.

    --
    Nuclear war would really set back cable. - Ted Turner
    1. Re:Why must Linux win? by rhizome · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree wholeheartedly. To "do battle" with Microsoft is to attempt the engage them fully on their terms. Nobody can out-market, out-spend, out-featurize, out-PR, or out-legislate Microsoft because that's how they've built themselves up to where they are now. Their monopoly has caused most of the computer industry to define success exactly how Microsoft views their own strengths and benefits to the user, so there is no way to compete with them in the ways that computer companies have traditionally competed with each other.

      What Linux seems to have done so far (in most cases, but that BSD seems to do better) is to take a page out of the tenets of Judo (and probably other martial arts as well): the best defense is to NOT BE WHERE THE OPPONENT IS STRIKING. Microsoft will waste all of their energy trying to drag Linux into the marketing game, the legislation and lobbying game, the featuritis and well-publicized second-system effects game, and so on. Nobody who is using Linux these days cares that Linus doesn't buy a five-lot booth at CES as a monument to himself and his helpers, nobody cares that laws can't be passed to require people to use Windows, and nobody cares that Linux isn't competing with Windows on anybody's terms. They aren't competing because - Microsoft themselves said it best - you can't compete with free. So competing has nothing to do with winning, and the proof is the adoption rate of Linux. Ta da!

      But hey, you know...I wouldn't be as good at the command line as I am now if it wasn't for 15 years of DOS throughout my youth. So party the night away, Uncle Bill, you deserve it.

      --
      When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
    2. Re:Why must Linux win? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      laws can't be passed to require people to use Windows

      I agree with pretty much everything else you say, but I'd warn about being too complacent on this point. Now, I seriously doubt any law is going to be passed saying that Windows is the only OS people are allowed to use -- but what Microsoft may be able to do, and will certainly try to do, is a) take advantage of our absurdly permissive patent system to control simple, obvious features which are necessary to make software usable, and b) exploit the bugaboos of the moment (currently terrorism and "piracy", it may be something else tomorrow) to bully and/or bribe lawmakers into passing laws mandating "security" restrictions for consumer systems which -- surprise! -- Microsoft has locked up in patents and licenses. The F/OSS world ignores this at its peril.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  13. Why do you think they aren't? by khasim · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is the attitude that is going to prevent that from ever happening.
    Huh? How?
    I wish the movers and shakers in the Linux world would decide to focus on a subset of the OS market, and do it well, instead of trying to do everything and losing focus of good engineering practices...
    Are you saying that they have lost "focus of good engineering practices"?

    Strange, Linux seems to be rock solid.

    And it runs on everything from a wristwatch to a mainframe.

    It seems as if they have the engineering practices under control.

    As for focusing on "a subset", why?

    Won't the stability needed for a server be a good feature in a workstation?

    Won't the plethora of devices on a workstation give you more flexibility in choosing a server (ATA, SATA, SCSI, etc).

    Won't the real-time features necessary for certain segments be nice with workstation audio playback?
    1. Re:Why do you think they aren't? by zonker · · Score: 1, Insightful

      linux guru: "it runs on everything from a wristwatch to the space shuttle. and its free!"

      realworld manager: "great now make it work for joe in accounting. he's spent the last 2 hours tring to find his 'a' drive."

      it's all well and good that linux is technically better (which is a point other people are making about pc-dos being technically worse than alternatives) but if it is a pain in the ass to implement for the average user it likely won't hit the desktop in a big way. otherwise it is just an academic pissing contest of microsoft's david vs. the penguin-powered goliath which has a not so obvious outcome...

  14. Lessons Learned.... by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are a couple of very simple lessons to be learned about DOS that should be heard by everyone (I think):

    LESSON: Easier may not be better, but more people buy it. Windows was easier for grandma to use than command line interfaces, and thus made DOS obsolete.

    LESSON: A product that is targeted to hardware and to a userbase will get market share. DOS was a derivitave work aimed at the microcomputer of the day. This allowed the average company or person to buy that hardware and use it effectively. Its target users were anyone that wanted stand alone computing resources, free of mainframes.

    LESSON: Control is not the answer, simplicity is. Because DOS could be installed by anyone on almost any compatible machine, buying it made sense, and money was spent for the version of DOS that had the features required for the job. For this very reason, Microsoft has garnered a long list of detractors.

    For the *nix world, what should be learned is that if you want to do something right, make it simple and easy to use by anyone. Make it portable: that is to say, yourLinux should work on many or any hardware platform that would be used by your target userbase. If you are targeting people who want to build their HTPC then by all means, make your own version of Linux if you find benefit to this, otherwise, use some other stable distribution and package it with the software you need to give the end user a sleek and easy installation and maintenance of their HTPC system. If you feel the need to innovate, remember that simple is when you take a good idea and make it usable on any *nix distro, and compatible with other OSs. It is the ease of use that creates marketshare.

    While *nix developers struggle with competing with entrenched software vendors, it is time to remember that to beat them you have to be better, not simply a good-enough alternative if you want to get grandma and aunt velda using your code.

    Just some thoughts...

  15. Live and Learn by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lesson for Linux: make a deal with the PC maker controlling the market that forces them to use Linux exclusively, but lets you sell Linux to anyone you want. On the condition that you become so necessary to that PC maker's "successor OS" (the one copying Apple's user-friendly OS) that you can destroy the project. Then copy Apple's OS yourself, and sell it to all the PC-making competitors you've enabled by selling to them, under the compatibility spec.

    Then do everything you can to abuse your monopoly position in bundled OS, apps, development and content - too numerous to list here. Then, if a new OS, unburdened with decades of backwards-compatibility baggage and shortsighted design decisions, becomes so popular as to threaten your entire business model, not just your OS product, you can continue to win based on lock-in and political manipulations. Don't worry if you're found to legally abuse your monopoly; you'll be so important that no one can touch you, even the US government. Especially if you just do what all the other popular, important, and big-spending monopolies do: bribe^Wcontribute to important campaigns, and create a "millionaires" cult that fills people with dreams of cheating their own way to the top.

    BTW, if you can manage to be supported in your early years by a couple of the country's top corporate lawyers, their son (your CEO) can even drop out of college, looking like everyman while his PR team keeps his trustfund quiet.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  16. To Quote Suse by p0rnking · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I remember reading something on /. about a year ago, regarding some linux conference .... anyways some guy from Suse said "Just because an OS holds 90% of the market doesn't mean it's superior. Remember 90% of all animals are insects." I'm not sure if you can qualify insects as animals, but you get the picture. Here's the pic from the article

  17. It's about the apps, stupid. by humankind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ultimately, nobody gives a damn what OS is running. Looking at the historical ups and downs of DOS in and of itself is a useless exercise in intellectual masturbation.

    People buy computers because of applications, not operating systems. Although Microsoft has managed to turn the OS into the application, the best, most solid systems respect the separation of OS and application. The only thing worthy of analysis relative to all this is the fact that MS's bloating up of DOS with a GUI and bundled apps ended up delivering them market share. But ultimately nobody ever chose a PC based on the OS... never, ever. They may have chosen a PC/OS based on the applications available for the OS, but with the exception of just a few, most computer users don't care what's under the hood as long as it gets them from point A to point B.

    That's the way it was, is, and always will be. This holds true for everything from cell phones to console gaming. The system with the most versatility and functionality will win out in the absence of any domineering marketing campaign (which has a tendency of nullifying objectivity).

    1. DOS was stable.

    2. Because DOS was stable, developers were more comfortable developing applications for it.

    3. Because there were more applications available for DOS, it garnered market share.

    #2 is the key to it all... Had the first IBM PC been more closed like the Macintosh, the whole industry may have evolved differently. Had the TRS-80 been easier to hack and upgrade, we'd all probably be using TRSDOS v900. Had Apple not decided to turn their backs on the great original idea of embracing third party development when they went the route of Mac/Lisa, we'd all probably be using Apples. It's all about the applications, and how those who develop systems pander to the widest array of appdev talent.

    What's funny is what's happened to the software development industry. I'd bet even today, 10+ years after the demise of DOS as a viable platform, there are still more DOS apps than Windows apps. So MS's pie-in-the-sky-OS idea has hurt the industry as a whole by crippling independent software development. That's what we can learn from this whole mess.

    1. Re:It's about the apps, stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Yeah right. This kind of thinking is exactly why we get MS Office.

      Yeah. Right. This kind of thinking is exactly why we get MS Office. Back in the '80s, Apple, Amiga, even Tandy and Atari were superior to DOS/Intel. But do they run Lotus and Wordstar? No. Therefore, DOS/Intel wins. Then....

      Have you ever paused to wonder why Office includes Access, Excel, Word, and Powerpoint, but not Frontpage, or Photoshop or Publisher?

      Back in the day, all these were different types of software. Microsoft noticed that business tended to buy all of them, so marketed their word processor and spreadsheet together in one package. Businesses now only need to go to one place to get all the software they need. Boom, competition dies. The bundling creates a barrier to entry for any new competitor, since they have to beat not only one of Microsoft's apps but all of them, or beat one of Microsoft's apps so well that businesses will pay for both apps to get the competitor's. Giving the Win95 APIs to the Office development team while withholding them from the rest of the market put the final nail in the surviving competition, which was stuck with ugly DOS apps in a new GUI world. Frontpage is in Office these days. So is Publisher. Photoshop is Adobe's program, but Microsoft Photo Editor is in Office.

  18. Actually, you can. by mosel-saar-ruwer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can't freaking run old Dos programs on windows anymore.

    Au contraire, and I am constantly amazed at the plethora of 16-bit programs that continue to run on kernels as recent as Windows 2000 - which is a real testament to M$FT & Intel/AMD's devotion to backwards compatibility [and which is also the lesson that FOSS types should take away from this].

    However, I hear that Win64/AMD64 does NOT support 16-bit binaries.

  19. Re:Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you sure about that? methinks you never owned a mac, or at least never were involved in 'the community'...

  20. Re:Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Never heard of Hotline I see.

  21. Re:Lesson of DOS: Give Credit Where Credit is Due by Brandybuck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For those who are not aware, the genesis of DOS began in deceipt and treachery.

    You list no such deceit or treachery. All you list is Gary Kildall giving IBM the brushoff. Give credit where credit is due, the fault for CPM/86's failure in the mass market needs to be given to Mr. Kildall.

    Then, Gates bought PC-DOS from Seattle Computer Products.

    Nothing treacherous or deceitful about that.

    An engineer, Tim Paterson, at that company had stolen the ideas of CPM/86 and created a cheap clone of it.

    Thank you, Darl MacBride. Was there a patent on CPM/86? No, there wasn't, so no ideas where "stolen", because no ideas were sold. The implementation for CPM/86 itself (copyright) was not copied, modified or distributed. Hence, no "stolen" operating system.

    He created a clone of CPM/86, in EXACTLY the same way Linus Torvalds created a clone of Minix/Unix. Why is Tim the thief but not Linus? Oh that's right, in your Darl MacBride world, Linus "stole" Unix. Sigh. ...most people have no idea that he is, in fact, the original inventor of the PC operating system.

    Inventor? What a load of crap! Next you'll be telling me that AT&T/USL/Caldera/SCO were the orginal inventors of Linux!

    The greatest insult was, ultimately, assigning the name "William H. Gates" to the Stanford Computer Science building.

    It was William H. Gates who donated money to Stanford, not Gary Kildall. Which is why Gar Kildall doesn't have a Stanford campus building named after him. This is so bloody obvious that only a total moron would question it.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  22. Economic Rent and Nontradables by Baldrson · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Gates struck deal that gave him a natural monopoly. There were other operating systems for the 808x family around and any one of them could have been the predominant one shipped by IBM with its PC. Any one of them would have formed a natural monopoly on that platform and made the owner rich.

    Such monopoly profits are called "economic rent" which everyone with any sort of mental faculties about economics, including such staunch advocates of laissez-faire capitalism, as Milton Friedman recognize as the most appropriate source of tax revenue. Since economic rent is subsidized, rather than taxed -- due to the abandonment of the principles of Henry George -- Gates was given state support as he imposed a horrible operating system on the world and became its richest man as a consequence.

    Like any welfare queen -- it corrupted his character which wasn't that good to begin with.

    So now he, like the rest of the loons running the software industry, think having more fingers writing more code is the way to create good code -- and he's salivating over the virtually endless supply of fingers that can type out so many lines of code that no one will be able to figure out what is going on with the damn OS anymore.

    Rent-seeking is a really old game so we should be unsurprized when old world cultures, much more specialized at this sort of thing, smell a nice free-from-risk annuity stream such as the one Gates has and, via the Boeing 747's of the world, and descend upon it like flies laying their eggs in shit.

    The result is almost any aspect of that annuity stream will be sucked up and sent overseas (or captured via more robust ethnic nepotism of the older cultures as they rip through the naively individualistic cultures of the new world).

    The lesson for Linux is that the government subsidizes rent-seekers so if it wants to benefit from such an annuity stream in such a way that it isn't simply captured by the most sociopathic culture out there -- it must do 2 things:

    1. It must find a niche in a new hardware/software regime that makes it a de facto standard.
    2. It must make that de facto standard be tied to nontradable services (and if possible goods but this is less critical for subsistences of the technologists that are from high-cost of family formation societies).

    One opportunity to do this is to come up with a different business model for home computing based on the opportunity presented by broadband deployment.

    The business model basically involves taking advantage of the fact that most people just want a single unified service where they don't have to worry about their computer/broadband connection so much. The opportunity here is to take something like a wireless mesh solution for Linux and deploy it via a good desktop, easily maintained Linux distro like Ubuntu. Then provide computer/broadband service modeled on an HMO (Information Service Maintanence Organization?) providing some minimal co-pay for service calls. The mesh can suck up bandwidth from virtually any source but the ISMO could provide a feed from the annuity stream.

    Given the jobs crunch there are more than enough technologists out there who are under-employed who could use a subsistence, non-tradable service job.

  23. Double Standard by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I know this is going to be modded as flamebait, but - If this article hand been written by a Microsoft shill about a Microsoft product, it would have been labled FUD.

    As it is this article is a factless, pointless rant about Microsoft. It doesn't answer the question it purports to ask ("What can the Linux world learn from Microsoft's past 25 years of unique experiences and domination?") at all. It does however spew every bit of geek lore that makes geeks feel all fuzzy inside knowing how 'superior' they are, regardless of the facts or relevance.

    If it were posted on /., it would be modded right up to the stratosphere. As an example of Linux journalism - it's pretty sad.

  24. Uber-Parents Solution: Take All the Money and Run by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find it hard to take seriously any article which takes on capitalist bashing tendencies while at the same time offering zero evidence that PC-DOS was "as the least robust, the most temperamental, and arguably not very compatible with the IBM hardware and BIOS it was sold to work on" or that better alternatives for the IBM PC would have been available. People become wealthy through commerce, at which point they can divert a chosen sum of their own choosing to philanthropic ends. Whining that corporation X doesn't give as much of its shareholder's value away as you'd like is rather undemocratic, as I doubt you'd be a majority shareholder. I'd be very curious if anyone has evidence that backs up the 3 major shortcomings he asserts in PC-DOS though.

    --
    Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
  25. Re:Lesson of DOS: Give Credit Where Credit is Due by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Gary Kildall had created CPM/86, and it was an outstanding product that incorporated modern techniques of operating systems. Unfortunately, Kildall was more a commited engineer and less a marketing snake, so he brushed off an IBM deal to license CPM/86.
    Hnm...I worked at Digital Research for three summers while I was in high school and college. I don't think what you're saying really holds water. CP/M was a nice enough OS in some ways, but it was painfully primitive by modern standards. Rumor had it that Kildall wrote the original CP/M over a weekend on a handy machine he had access to at the Naval Postgraduate School. It was a very basic, bare-bones OS, and it was by no means a state-of-the-art OS compared to, say, Unix; but that's not surprising, because it had to run in a 64k address space.

    I also don't think it's accurate to portray Gary Kildall as a naive engineer who didn't know business. Digital Research was quite a successful business by the standards of a time when "microcomputer" users were mostly hobbyists. The story about his being out flying his plane when IBM showed up for the meeting is memorable, but probably untrue. A more believable version that I've heard is that IBM wanted Kildall and his wife to sign NDA's, and they refused. That wasn't as crazy as it might seem today. IBM had never even entered the microcomputer market. In the world of microcomputers, DRI was the big, established, dominant company, and IBM was trying to break in.

    Actually, TFA isn't referring to CP/M at all:

    • Look I say this with caution but sincerity since I began using DOS around the same time I had used UNIX and its variants, VMS, Stratus VOS and others.
    VMS and Unix were indeed much more sophisticated than PC-DOS (or CP/M), but, uh, you couldn't run them in a 64k address space. People had made various trimmed-down 8-bit versions of Unix (proprietary, of course), but they weren't as sophiaticated as real Unix.

    From the article:

    • My only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?
    Sorry, but this is really dopey. The historical stuff he's talking about isn't parallel to the modern situation at all. Some crucial differences:
    1. Today, people have vast amounts of data locked into MS's proprietary formats (Word, etc.) That makes it really hard for them to switch to Linux. In 1981, those formats didn't exist; this was before the laser printer, and when people wrote something in a word processor, it was plain text.
    2. There was no monopoly then. There were a lot of players in the market, including Apple, Digital Research, Radio Shack, Commodore, ...
  26. Gates Foundation by flabbergast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Socially, the vacuum was created by greed.
    ...
    A friend of mine told me he thinks that if Microsoft released just 10% of the roughly $2 BILLION in CASH (does not include other assets) to help curb diseases and help starvation, many people could be helped."


    I was uneasy reading this OP/Ed piece. But once I got to the "social" problem, I stopped reading. So, what charitable organization has the one of the largest endowments in the world? That would be the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that has an endowment of roughly $29 billion. And what do they focus on? Global health problems like HIV/AIDS in Africa and education.

    So only Microsoft should be held to this lofty standard of donating 10% of its cash to help the needy? Why not every company? Why shouldn't Ford donate 10% of its cash hoard (~$10 billion). What about Apple's $6 billion cash hoard? Or what about ordinary people? Why don't we require everyone to donate 10% of their savings account? Because Micro$oft is evil and should give back? As soon as I read this I knew this op/ed piece was a waste.

  27. Not gonna happen by jasonmicron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?'"

    Sorry but it is not going to happen. Linux needs to grow away from MS and stop comparing itself to it. The more I read about how Linux can compare to MS (let alone 25 years ago) just leads me to believe more and more that Linux will keep copying Windows until Microsoft goes out of business. What happens then?

    If Linux is to come out on top it needs to be more innovative and less whiny about Microsoft. Seriously. The entire "whine" (TM) factor needs to go the way of the dodo. It is a great turnoff to those of us that are considering Linux but are reluctant to leave MS.

    1. Re:Not gonna happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The thing is it has been more innovative than Microsoft. Much more innovative.

      When you take your casual glance at linux you probably see kicker, the desktop, i.e. everything that Windows copied from Apple in the first place. You don't see the LiveCDs, the remote desktops, the modularity, the slaves, etc that happened on the linux side.

      But the thing is, all I see when I look at Microsoft is a pretty desktop that hasn't really added any original features for at least ten years. I challenge you to name even one feature that was an actual innovation in Windows from Microsoft since they gained their virtual monopoly of the operating systems market.

  28. Just click on the floppy drive icon. by khasim · · Score: 2, Insightful
    realworld manager: "great now make it work for joe in accounting. he's spent the last 2 hours tring to find his 'a' drive."
    Just double click on the floppy drive icon on the desktop.
    it's all well and good that linux is technically better (which is a point other people are making about pc-dos being technically worse than alternatives) but if it is a pain in the ass to implement for the average user it likely won't hit the desktop in a big way.
    That's a big "if" now-a-days.

    Aside from running specific apps that haven't been ported to Linux yet, name anything that Windows can do that Linux cannot.

    Linux is quickly taking over the server market segment so SOMEONE has to like the Linux approach.

    I'm typeing this on Ubuntu and Windows is behind on ease of use.

    Surprise! Linux both technically better AND easier to use now.

    Remember, it's easier to make a stable and secure platform easy to use than it is to make an unstable/insecure platform stable and secure, no matter how easy it is for the end user to use.

    Linux will take the server market first.

    Then it will take the corporate/government desktop.

    Only then will it take the home user desktop (if such still exists then).
    1. Re:Just click on the floppy drive icon. by zonker · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ubuntu is a step in the right direction. however its attempts of keeping you from screwing something up by making you jump through hoops to get at just the cli, exiting x, are just one of many things i found incredibly annoying. on top of that installing software, figuring out dependency issues alone are enough to scare lots of folks away, is still a pain in the ass unless you are giddy about running just the stuff that came with the distro. ubuntu's package manager is okay but like i said, you are stuck with a list of things the ubuntu team put together, none of which are of use to me personally for what i do at work.

      on top of that you can't separate the ability to run applications you *need* and what you think of the operating system. the console industry is a great analogy. if you don't have enough quality games for the system then the system won't be considered a success no matter how capable for fast the system is. if i can't run the applications i need everyday then what good is it to me (even if it isn't the fault of the operating system)? the two are inseparable in quantifying the value as a desktop operating system. it isn't that linux *can't* do these things but if the apps aren't ported over or real alternatives written then the difference is semantic.

      i work in printing and do graphic design and typesetting. i can't run any adobe products, any quark products hell anything i need to do my job. if you want to putter around in gimp have a blast dude, but if you want to get something done there aren't any good apps to do the stuff i need. find me a *real* alternative to illustrator, indesign, pagemaker, quark, photoshop and acrobat among other programs i use on a daily basis. openoffice is getting to be a decent alternative to word and excel but there are still compatibility issues that need resolving.

      now make sure they load all of my customer's files because i don't have time to dick around with things like latex or do file conversions (which always have problems of some sort). also i need it to handle rgb, cmyk and pantone color management gracefully. next, give me a lot of quality typestyles because my customers not only use a shitload of them but expect me to have the same ones they use. on top of that make sure i have quality font management tools because i have literally thousands of them and i don't want them all loaded at once. next make sure i don't have to dick around with quirky printing issues or baffling irregularities between applications printing abilities.

      that's why i don't use linux on my desktop at work. in fact, i use os x at work on a dual g5. at home i use winxp on an xp3000+ and os x on a dual g4. i do have a copy of ubuntu on a vmware install on my windows machine when i want to tinker around but in all honesty i rarely use it.

      i have nothing against linux as an amazingly excellent server os, but it has a long way to go until it gets installed as a desktop replacement os with mass appeal. until people realize this and get over their wetdreams of taking over microsoft's desktop monopoly and really focus on the needs of real world user's, like me, it will take a long time to attain your goal. i have no desire to go writing replacement applications, so don't suggest that i just go ahead and start coding them myself. that's why my company spends the big bucks to have other people write the programs so i can be left to do my job...

  29. Re:Flamebait, eh? by steeviant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, the IBM PC took over the market within 2 years, DOS hitched along for the ride.

    The reason that the IBM PC took over the market was because it was the right computer (business oriented, super number crunching, fast hi-res text display), at the right time, from the right people.

    The IBM PC would still have stormed the market if it was running CP/M.

    MS-DOS played an insignificant role in the early success of the PC, if anything it hindered developers and owners of businesses already running on CP/M machines from moving to the PC until they were convinced that it was going to be a roaring success.

  30. Re:Lesson of DOS: Give Credit Where Credit is Due by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everything you described is perfectly legit business.

    Buying a company and its IP for a song is perfectly justifiable if that company can't sell its product. Having a good product and lacking the ability to sell it makes a company almost as worthless as having no product at all. Having technology or resources but not the capital or expertise to bring them to market is a very common problem with small companies in all industries.

    Gates had the expertise necessary to market the product he fairly purchased. Having his company's name and logo on the product is completely reasonable.

  31. Re:Lesson of DOS: Give Credit Where Credit is Due by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What you miss is that Seattle Computing and Tim Patterson could never have sold their OS to IBM in a million years. Nor could they compete with Digital Research. What they had was worthless (to them).

    The DOS deal did in fact keep SCP in business, and they eventually sold their stake in DOS back to MS for millions of dollars. Tim Patterson was an early MS employee and is probably worth tens of millions. None of these people are complaining, why are you?

  32. Re:forlorn hopes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linux will not kill Windows.

    Game consoles will kill Windows.

    That's where the volume is, and where the bleeding edge tech is headed, because dollars from games drive graphics and cpu development.

    In 10 years, SOME device decended from a game console (I won't try to predict which) will unseat the PC.

  33. Why does it have to be Linux? by DavidD_CA · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Only question now is not if but when will Linux become the number one OS on earth?


    Why does it have to be Linux? Why Windows? I would bet good money that the "number one OS on Earth" will be neither of the two.

    Unix and its early variants, around for about 30 years, are quickly losing share to Linux. DOS only had a 20-year shelf-life. Windows, around now in various forms for about 15 years, is probably going to give-way soon to another major evolution in OS. Linux, too, probably will go away to be replaced by something better. It's just a matter of time.

    But to say that "Linux will become the number one OS on Earth" is a bit like a mother claiming her child is the best actress of all time, just undiscovered at the moment.

    OSS zealots need to be less focused on smashing Microsoft and their self-claimed superiority, and more focused on solving the problems that are limiting their market-share.

    Either that, or - as someone earlier stated - focus on a niche that Linux can properly serve and stick with that.

    --
    -David
  34. Re:Flamebait, eh? by xRobx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Linux based OS's are only as powerful as the people using them. If you don't know what you are doing then its not going to do a whole lot for you.

  35. "in their own interest" by shmlco · · Score: 3, Insightful
    invisible hand assumes that customers will act, at least on average, in their own interest. I doubt that. Market stupidity is a non-neglible quanity...

    Unfortunately for your example, customers have many, many definitions of "in their own interest".

    One may, for example, assume a "smart" customer would choose a superior OS like... OS X. Or Linix. Or whatever.

    However, they also consider other questions like... How much it is? Is it already installed so I don't have to mess with it? Do I have to relearn everything? While it run my existing software? Will it work on my computer? Is Half-Life 2 available for it? And so on.

    Thus what you might consider to be a "stupid" choice may make sense to those who make it, because that choice best reflected their needs, their budget, their skill level, and/or their ability to change.

    Sum up the majority of those decisions, and you have the dominant market force.

    --
    Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  36. Re:Porn by SA+Stevens · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There was/is plenty of piracy on the Mac.

    I remember the 'don't copy that floppy' advertisement as being produced by Apple Computer.

  37. Re:Flamebait, eh? by xRobx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I guess your right. Linux OS's just weren't meant to be run by computer illiterate people. I hope thats not the future of computer using world.

  38. We have TONS of things everybody needs. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's see.... Apache is a fairly unique web server. The only thing that really compares is IIS, which is still entirely different except for the fact that they both talk HTTP. Apache has been ported, but it's better with Linux.

    Firefox. Pop-up-blocking -- never done by MS, only by third-parties. Tabbed browsing -- I'm not sure if Mozilla invented this, but MS certainly didn't. Firefox is ported to Windows, but I like it better with Linux.

    Also, Windows on Dos vs. X Windows on Linux suggests that you REALLY haven't dug under the hood a lot. I can actually do 90% of the things I need to do on this computer without a single instance of X running. I choose not to, because I like some of the graphical programs, but it's a hell of a lot different than "rebooting to DOS" on a Win98 box. For one, I can get back into X in less than 10 seconds; I'm lucky to get back into Win98 in less than 10 minutes.

    Now, the kicker -- something Linux has, that's only been weakly imitated on other platforms and not at all widely used anywhere but Linux: virtual desktops/workspaces. Windows people buy multiple monitors; Linux people hit ctrl+alt+rightarrow. AFAIK, Nvidia implements this fairly weakly, and there's some strange-looking implementation on a Mac.

    Oh, and let's not forget the nice little tweaks like middle-click to paste the hilight. Windows' copy-and-paste is much slower.

    These are two things that I absolutely can't live without these days, but even once I got my parents on Linux, they haven't wrapped their minds around the concept -- or else they haven't found a good use for it yet. Not surprisingly, my 14-year-old brother is catching on much faster.

    So, Linux is already really cool. For a feature like that to be really cool and also significantly impact market share, you have to already have people dual-booting. What we really need is to make Linux a good enough Windows replacement that one day, Dell will silently replace all copies of XP (or Longhorn, or whatever's next) on their new computers with a copy of Dell Linux, and people will think of it as a simple upgrade -- just like going from 2K to XP.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  39. You know, here's the problem.. by Stick_Fig · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ..if Microsoft wrote something like this, it probably would've gone through a few editors to take away the unprofessional, conversational tone. Apple, same thing. But instead, the Linux supporter writes this article as if he's talking to a friend, with long-windedness bandied throughout.

    Know why DOS succeeded, and then Windows? Because it was professional. Professionalism breeds trust. Imagine some pundit trying to sell tax cuts using this guy's writing style. You'd think he was a nut who wasn't prepared to sell his ideas.

    And that my friends, as much as I like open source software, is the story of why open source software gets beaten by Microsoft and Apple -- they're great at ideas in places where Microsoft is blindsided, but have no clue how to present themselves to the mass market.

    There's a reason why icons like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are icons -- they've honed their craft and are master salesmen. Open source makes no effort to sell themselves like established companies.

    --
    ShortFormBlog: Writing a little. Saying a lot.
  40. Re:Is Novell Lobbying??? by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with your plan is that is sounds fairly Anti-US, and as you give it, it comes from a US company. Pitching Linux soley as a way to "reduce dependency on the US" is selling it short.

    I understand that many non US citizens have a great deal of anger or frustration over Microsoft and other US companies, but a sales pitch that is anti-US isn't going to gain the trust or participation of regular Joes here in the US. While Linux doesn't NEED the participation of American's to be successful (look at how many contributors are not American, most), it certainly is helpful. Even Linus lives here now, after all.

    There are plenty of Americans like myself that are fed up with Microsoft's licensing plans and predatory methods. I would think you are better off by devising a plan that includes us, rather than isolates us by simply selling Linux as a way to get away from those bad old American companies.

    Your suggestions is exactly what MS is hoping for: Pitching Linux not as a superior product at a better price, but as a knee jerk reaction to frustration about the US.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  41. Re:Sorry, but you're rewriting history... by runderwo · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Even the DOSBOX and DOSEMU tools which Linux and other POSIX environments have available don't touch the level of flexibility that OS/2 offered 13 years ago, particularly when it comes to DOS programs which use both graphics and sound. I know -- I've been trying to get some of the DOS stuff I have to run under DOSEMU for the better part of seven years now!!!
    What exactly are you having problems with? DOSEMU should behave exactly as an OS/2 VDM because the features are nearly identical. It's true that there are bugs, but we can only fix them if users report them on the SF bugtracker.
  42. Strive for Invisibility by luwain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The success of the Microsoft Operating Systems really didn't have much to do with their quality or power. As I recall PC-DOS didn't even have nested directories. It wasn't just marketing either -- Microsoft marketed the hell out of "Bob" and "OS/2 Warp", but those Operating Systems were not successes. In those early days of PCs, what sold PCs and with them MS-DOS, were the applications: WordStar, Lotus 1-2-3, and DBASE. What the Linux folks should learn is one simple lesson: Most people couldn't care less about the operating system, they just want to run applications that do what they want to do. An operating system should strive to be "invisible". The most disconcerting thing that people used to MS-DOS found when they wanted to try Linux was that the OS was too "visible". "What do you mean I have to mount my disks before I can use them!!? -- I don't have to do that in Windows or DOS." The best lesson that Linux can learn from the Microsoft crowd is "don't assume that the user knows anythhing about computing". When I say I think I'll use the MAC OS because it has a UNIX kernel, my friends don't know what I'm talking about. But if tell some musicians I'm switching to the MAC because of the Music Studio Software, they relate to me immediately. I can be showing of all the neat features of Fedora to my friends, but all they care about is the applications. I don't try anymore to sell "Linux" -- I sell Firefox, Open Office, Evolution etc... To become the munber one Operating System, Linux needs better applications and an Operating System that gets out of the way of the applications. I think Microsoft actually turns a lot of people off with always having a new Operating System to upgrade to. People who have the applications they use running on Windows 2000, Windows 98 or Windows 95(!!?), don't really care about the operating system.
    I know people will bring up the issues of security , scalability, etc... but most computer users don't care. They don't care what encryption you're using, just stop viruses from getting on their computers! So that's the key: mold the operating system so that the user doesn't even know it's there and provide some new essential applications that don't run on Windows. There really haven't been any real breakthrough applications on ANY platform in the last decade. Programmers are still creating Word Processors, Databases and Spreadsheets... The OS that supports the next breakthrough App will be able to "catch" Microsoft.