Revolution Details By End of Year

Reuters is reporting that Nintendo will announce the price, launch date, and further details about their next generation console by the end of this year. Their tight-lipped attitude this E3 is apparently an attempt to ensure they don't tip their hand to rivals. From the article: "Some gamers and industry analysts had criticized Nintendo for providing sparse details on the new machine, comparing it to Sony and Microsoft's unveiling of slicker, graphic-intense next-generation machines...Iwata said the new console is aimed at customers who hate clutter and find current games and the controllers used to play them to be confusing and difficult."

Comments

User Interface

[Nytewynd]

...Iwata said the new console is aimed at customers who hate clutter and find current games and the controllers used to play them to be confusing and difficult." To combat this problem, the next generation console's controller will consist of a single giant, red button. Users will rapidly push this button until the game is beaten.

Re:User Interface

[MindStalker]

And this is different from Tekken how?

Re:User Interface

[PhilippeT]

That's my one fear from hearing that... o well if it can play GC and N64 that means minimum 2 analog sticks, and 7-8 buttons

Re:User Interface

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess that means Nintendo will be the designated fighting game console.

Re:User Interface

[NanoGator]

"To combat this problem, the next generation console's controller will consist of a single giant, red button."

Sony, on the other hand, has a lot of faith in the hand-eye coordination of its customers. It will have 16 buttons on the face and 4 more shoulder buttons on each side. All the buttons will be clearly labeled with a variety of simple shapes. For example: The rainbow dodecahedron will typically be used for selecting the second menu option for most games, provided they follow any sort of standard.

Re:User Interface

[Reorax]

Sweet. All my years of using a Mac have finally paid off!

Re:User Interface

[rayde]

hey, if you remember the Atari, that's how it used to be!! maybe they'll just use an old atari joystick and give it bluetooth support or something.

Re:User Interface

[Anonymous Coward]

5 insightful for a comment that makes no sense at all? In tekken each button has a different function. Idiots with no learning capacity mash the controller instead of learning the finesse.

Re:User Interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Iwata said the new console is aimed at customers who hate clutter and find current games and the controllers used to play them to be confusing and difficult.

ROFL! Is he talking about the clutter and confusion of buying a GBA SP, a cable to connect it to the gamecube, and possibly a separate GBA game, just so I can experience the whole gamecube game? Yeah, that model wasn't frustrating at all!

Re:User Interface

[SetupWeasel]

I once walked onto my friends' dorm room in college and saw a bunch of people playing Soul Edge for the PS1. I had never played it, but it looked cool enough, so I got in line for a turn.

When I picked up the controller I found the button for "hit person with ax," and I used it... a lot. Then I found out that up was jump, and I formulated a plan! I would jump away then jump back toward the enemy and hit them with the ax. I played against people that prided themselves on knowing all the moves.

I did not let go of the controller for more than an hour. Everyone lost. Most thought it was hilarious, but I had one person close to tears as he tried over and over to beat me.

Was it beginners luck? Maybe. Did I have any right to beat these people? Probably not. The fact remains that I kicked fucking ass without knowing a thing about the game. BOO YAH!

Re:User Interface

[MindStalker]

It was intended to be "Funny" obviously moderators are stupid. But either way, its did make sense, while not being entirly accurate.

Re:User Interface

[Mitaphane]

Off-Topic:
This should be modded Funny and not Insightful...but whatever.

Slightly less Off-Topic:
A lot people like blow off Tekken because the way the game is setup it encourages button mashing. Strings(combinations of attack buttons that perform special attacks) have a certain timing to them to get them to come out. In a lot of cases, the next button to press in the string can be mashed until the next part in the string comes out. Because it's easier than learning the timing, newbies tend to mash buttons rather than executing string with precise, timed, button pressing.

There's also a strategy to button mashing. In Tekken, being predictable is the easy way to get defeated. If an opponent knows you're next attack, they know how to defeat you before you've performed your attack. With random button mashing however, the odds are less likely he'll know what you're going to do and thus he will be more likely to fall for your next attack. This is much more applicable for characters who have moves that chain together(e.g. Eddy/Christie, Jun/Asuka).

That said, button mashing is still easy to defeat and is far from the end-all be-all attack. Those who learn the timing of their attacks, how to juggle, and how to defend against attacks will easily defeat a button masher.

I don't see Tekken's controls as a weakness because it allows button mashers to win more easily than some games. I see it as a strength on how easily the game can be approached and played by new people. Of course there are those that have the mindset: "I've played a game for X amount of time so I should be X times as good." And to them I say this: "It's not about how long you've played a game, it's about all that you've learned in that X amount of time."

Re:User Interface

[Destoo]

And you will still be able to use the GC's controllers, wavebirds, bongos and fishing rods (no.. no fishing rod yet), because the ports are still there. (4 of them on top, along with two memory slots, but they're behind a panel)

The revolution is in the new default controller.
Doesn't mean they'll drop support for other controllers.

Re:User Interface

[KDR_11k]

That's usually considered one of the advantages of the Soul Calibur series, that beginners can easily pick the game up and beat regular players (no hardcore players though). Some people get beaten by their little sisters!

Re:User Interface

[KDR_11k]

No, it just means the GC controllers actually work when plugged into those GC controller ports.

Re:User Interface

[Anonymous Coward]

If your opponents were actually good, they'd paste your button-mashing ass, even in beginner-friendly games like Tekken and Soul Calibur. :)

Re:User Interface

[IntergalacticWalrus]

An advantage?? Oh please. A fighting game where a button masher can beat an expert is a shitty fighting game.

Re:User Interface

[urbaer]

combat this problem, the next generation console's controller will consist of a single giant, red button. Users will rapidly push this button until the game is beaten.
There's already a pokemon game like this in the arcase made by Banpresto. So this really wouldn't be revolutionary.

Re:User Interface

[KDR_11k]

An expert is something different from a regular player. An expert can completely destroy ANYONE who doesn't know what they're doing (and probably even those who do if they can't parry or combo effectively). A regular player may know which move does what but doesn't know the counter tactic for them.

Re:User Interface

[Guppy06]

Yeah, us Windows users don't know what to do with fewer than three buttons.

But still, the bongos don't have any obvious control mechanisms at first glance beyond a Big Red Button... hrm....

hmmm mixed blessing

[sevinkey]

while it's gonna be cool to have all the old Nintendo console emulators, I just bought my wife a super nintendo and a bunch of square RPGS! So much for retaining value :D

Clutter

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't this been done away with now, with all consoles moving to wireless controllers and wireless interfacing with other machines?

Re:Clutter

[Datamonstar]

Oh, no... Wireless isn't confusing at all. unless it dosen't work. I really loathe the big push to wireless controllers. Buying remote control batteries is for TV, not games.

Re:Clutter

[Gr33nNight]

What if the controllers are rechargable like the GBA-SP? You get 30 hours of play time before you have to recharge. Sounds good to me.

Re:Clutter

[Datamonstar]

Even then, what about issues like input lag. I play a lot of fighting games down to the Framedata (Capcom vs SNK2 roll canceling) and any input lag makes higher level play frustrating. As of now, most wireless controllers behave this way. I hope there's no noticible lag cause of the wireless signal on next gen controllers, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. I seriously doubt the console developers have these type of issues as a priority when they design their controlers.

Re:Clutter

[brkello]

From what I hear, they should be fairly solid. They aren't the IR controllers of the past that required line of sight...and quite frankly were awful. But I don't think they are going to force you to use wireless controllers. Just get a wired controller and don't worry about it.

Re:Clutter

[Anonymous Coward]

my wireless controller for xbox is the suck. But my wavebird for the gamecube is an excellent wireless controller, if a bit heavy.

Re:Clutter

[Gallandro]

I agree with you there. Conceptually, a wireless controller is a Good Thing, but there are a lot of cases where I would greatly prefer a wired controller. Especially with little kids around my house. Right now my Xbox controllers are tethered to the machine, but who knows where the little wretches will take controllers not connected to anything.

I just hope the controllers on the new systems come with a 'page' feature like cordless phones do. Fat chance of that.

Re:Clutter

[Txiasaeia]

I bought a Wavebird for my Cube back in February, and haven't needed to change the batteries yet (AA, not sure what you mean by "remote control batteries"). Not only that, but I've never had any missing "keystrokes" or lag *at all*.

Speaking as a parent of a 14 month old wire-pulling boy, I'm extremely glad that I bought that Wavebird, and happy to hear that the Revolution is going wireless as well.

Re:Clutter

[SetupWeasel]

Use a Wavebird. I used to think the same as you, I really did, but that controller is as responsive as the wired ones. The care that Nintendo puts into their hardware is phenominal.

Re:Clutter

[Zangief]

I don't have exact numbers, but Nintendo's Wavebird is responsive at all times, except when the batteries are low. With Duracell batteries, This only happens every two months.

That said, I don't like CVS2 on the Cube. The cube controller doesn't give itself to fighting games, where every button has the same chance of being pressed (Instead of normal games, where the most used buttons go in the A and B buttons, secondaries to the X and Y, etc).

Sooo...unless Sony and Microsoft are extremely stupid, they should provide good wireless controllers.

Why Nintendo doesn't patent those things? I'm sure they could have patented the Wavebird, because every wireless controller before it sucks, so they must be doing something different.

Re:Clutter

[Naikrovek]

oh man. i stopped buying wireless controllers after the third time my kid pulled my ps2 off its shelf by grabbing the wired controller and running.

now: wireless wireless wireless.

he even dropped the thing in the toilet, where it sat for about an hour before it was discovered. it was turned on. after pulling it out, drying, cleaning, and disinfecting, it still works great.

no more wired controllers for me, not until my kids have moved out, anyway. no more open bathroom doors either.

Re:Clutter

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that my wavebirds take about 3-4 months to drain a pair of 2100 mAh AAs i really wouldn't worry too much about battery life being a problem.

Re:Clutter

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about that. I liked the Gamecube controller better than the arcade setup for Soul Calibur 2. Took me about 10 minutes to adapt to it.

Re:Clutter

[DarKnyht]

The images that are up on Nintendo's site show that the top of the Revolution will open up to reveal 4 game ports. Now if this is only for Gamecube support or not, I do not know. I guess we will just have to wait for the Revolution and see.

I just cringe at the thought of constantly buying batteries or replacing my controller yearly because I wore out the rechargeable batteries in them.

Latest Revolution News...

[Anonymous Coward]

We STILL don't know anything new and exciting! Stay tuned, we'll update you daily on this mystery device until Nintendo actually tells us what's really inside!

I don't blame them

[NanoGator]

"Their tight-lipped attitude this E3 is apparently an attempt to ensure they don't tip their hand to rivals."

I can forgive them for that. Shortly after announcing the N-64, the PS1 got the Dual Shock controller and the Saturn got an analog controller.

"Iwata said the new console is aimed at customers who hate clutter and find current games and the controllers used to play them to be confusing and difficult."

Normally I would have called bullshit. But then I thought about some of the 'fun' I've had playing San Andreas lately. Hitting the correct shoulder button is an exercise in "Dammit!". I keep hitting the L3 button by accident whenever I make a sharp turn. (Oh, brilliant design there, Sony. Put a button where I can accidently hit it a LOT.) Then I played that damn dancing level where the button shapes would fly by and I had to hit the right one. Yeah Sony, thanks for using heiroglyphics for your button labels.

Yeah, I'm ready for simpler. I'm also really hoping that the gyro rumor is true. Analog sticks just don't cut it with shooting games.

Re:I don't blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

I think its more of the fact that the dual shock has not two, but FOUR shoulder buttons, and two embedded on each analog stick. For most of us, it's GREAT to have those options, but for more casual players, it gets to be annoying.

I used to play games a lot with my sister back in the nes/snes days, but now she can't be bothered to play anything from this generation, she can never get the hang of the controls. This goes for PC games, too. But she still plays and loves games from the NES/SNES era.

I'm not trying to say that represents every casual gamer, but that demographic is out there. The thing is with people like you, you tend to write off anyone who isnt a hardcore gamer, as if they don't exist. They DO exist, in great numbers, and it is painfully obvious that the trend the Big Three want to go for this generation is the mainstream crowd, each in their own individual way.

Re:I don't blame them

[NanoGator]

"No offense man, but if you can't master circle, triangle, X, and square...you aren't going to do much better with A, B, C, D."

Not true. At least with AB/XY, there's a pattern to it. With Sony's Lucky Charms shapes, you have to memorize specifically where each shape is. Eventually it isn't a big deal, but it sure made getting to know my Playstation a lot of unnecessary fun.

"I have never had a problem accidentally hitting shoulder buttons."

L3 isn't a shoulder button. If you push down on the left analog stick (which often happens if you're DRIVING), *click* there it goes. Half the time when I'm in hot pursuit in San Andreas, my car horn's honking. Really f'n annoying.

"Maybe it is just you. I suggest trying an Atari. It has one button and a joystick. Don't get too upset if you accidentally hit its only button though."

That's a pretty bold statement for somebody that hasn't dented any of my points.

Re:I don't blame them

[NanoGator]

" I have never had a problem accidentally hitting shoulder buttons."

Oops, sorry dude, I thought I had deleted my comment on shoulder buttons.

Well, maybe you can memorize button commands really quickly. Fine for you. However, when you're playing a game and one of the shoulder buttons is 'fire' and the other one is 'turn', it actually is quite easy to hit the wrong button. I don't mean "I hit R1 instead of R2", but rather "Uh.. wait, what does R1 do and what does R2 do?"

The problem with two shoulder buttons on each side is that they're rarely used intuitively. They're often used for secondary functions, as opposed to using them because their placement implies that function.

Re:I don't blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

I can forgive them for that. Shortly after announcing the N-64, the PS1 got the Dual Shock controller and the Saturn got an analog controller.

Despite what Nintendo wants fanboys to beleive, both those other analog controllers came out first. Sony made a dual shock in japan before the N64 came out, just it had no rumble support (that however was copied from nintendo who copied it from pagers) and the saturn controller also came out before the N64

Re:I don't blame them

[NanoGator]

"Sony made a dual shock in japan before the N64 came out..."

Thanks for proving my point, though it was unintentional. The N64 + analog controller were shown a full year before it was released. When the N64 finally reached market, the competition had already tried to soften the blow.

Re:I don't blame them

[karmafeed]

At this point in the game I think they should just give us the details. I know that Nintendo has a reputation for being tight lipped but I think that in their current situation, they have more to gain be announcing details than they have to lose while Sony and Microsoft continue to pump out details of their consoles and capturing the imaginations of current gamers.

Re:I don't blame them

[NanoGator]

"I know that Nintendo has a reputation for being tight lipped but I think that in their current situation, they have more to gain be announcing details..."

What could they have to gain? Right now, the XBOX 360 and the PS3 are BFD's. If Nintendo announced details now, they'd be competing with those two. (The fun part of that is that for Nintendo to keep up, they'd have to make up numbers like Sony and MS are.) If Nintendo waits a couple of months instead, they'd have the benefit of the PS3 and XBOX 360 being old news.

Nintendo doesn't need a year of hype. (It certainly doesn't need it early enough for the competition to rip off their ideas.) When SpaceWorld debuted the GameCube, lots of people had already made up their minds they were going to get it. They didn't need 12 months to sit on the idea.

Re:I don't blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony and MS, capturing the imaginations of gamers with specs? Nintendo has captured, and is capturing the imaginations of gamers by WITHHOLDING specs. And their whole tease campaign about their controllers has got a whole lot of gamers going back and forth with guesses, mockups, and even hoaxes. Sony and MS have left _nothing_ to gamers' imaginations. We know just about everything there is to know about both in terms of hardware, and the software announcements that were made following both hardware unveilings did NOTHING to drum up excitement for either console. I'd go so far as to say that revealing the design of the PS3 controller was to Sony detriment, since it is ass-ugly and reminds those of us who have held similarly-styled "boomerang" controllers how bad they are (there have been dozens of similar third-party designs for PS and PC, all of which felt uncomfortable).

Consider this: The Revolution is so much smaller than the other two, has already been announced to be backwards compatible with GameCube and all older Nintendo home consoles, and will probably be cheaper than the other two systems. On top of that, the rumor is that it will be between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 in overall power (which is not too shabby, since even the Xbox 360 looks like it will be a powerhouse, despite its strange, bandwidth-constrained unified memory arch). Zelda, Mario, and Smash Bros. were announced, with Smash Bros. being a launch title. Without knowing much more than this, plenty of people in the non-Nintendo-specific forums have been promising that the Revolution is a guaranteed sale, while their decisions to buy the either of the other two are dependent on software. The excitement continues to build, without Nintendo revealing so much as a picture of the controller. That's not just the easiest thing for them to do, it's also the smartest.

Re:I don't blame them

[Daetrin]

and two embedded on each analog stick

_That_ was about the dumbest controller idea ever. No, sorry, the second dumbest idea ever. The dumbest idea ever was making the buttons in the analog stick cancel what you're trying to do while trying to use the analag stick, so that if you're not very carefull with how hard you press you end up undoing everything. See SSX.

The third dumbest idea was the GameCube controller having three shoulder buttons instead of four.

Re:I don't blame them

[blighter]

But unnecessary fun is the best kind!

I understood what you were saying, just thought that "unnecessary fun" was a humorous phrase -- and actually a decent band name now that I think of it.

Re:I don't blame them

[prockcore]

I keep hitting the L3 button by accident whenever I make a sharp turn

After repeatedly jumping out of the car while trying to take a tight turn I decided that Sony's controller is the most evil thing ever devised.

Re:I don't blame them

[urbaer]

hen I played that damn dancing level where the button shapes would fly by and I had to hit the right one.
I fully agree. San Andreas was the first game I bought for the PS2 (there's lots of reasons I took this long to buy a PS2 that I'm not going to detail here) and that friggin dancing level drove me nuts. I'm sure it's fine if you've been using the controller everyday for years, but..
Wouldn't it have just been simpler to have BU, BD, BL and BR? the "bottom button" is much easier for me than X.

Re:I don't blame them

[Guppy06]

"At least with AB/XY, there's a pattern to it."

As I've pointed out before, in their scramble to copy the SNES controller, they actually used the same exact pattern.

Put the letters in alphabetical order, then put the shapes in increasing order of the number of lines (curves) in the shape. Circle, 1 is A, cross, 2 is B, triangle, 3 is X, and square, 4 is Y.

Every time I'm in a game where a "mash the buttons in the right order" scene comes up (limit breaks in FF games, for example), I remember that map and it gets me through.

At least Sega did their own thing, going for us left-to-right readers as opposed to all those crazy right-to-left folks they have in Japan.

Re:I don't blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

i just borrowed my buddy's old ps2 to try ffX, and i havent touched a playstation controller since psx...

for one of the character's special attack, they give you something like 4 seconds to correctly enter an 8 button sequence...without thinking or looking, i had no problem getting it the first (and every subsequent time)... ...the circle triangle cross square business isn't all that difficult to remember once you've played a few games before...like riding a bike...

Re:I don't blame them

[grumbel]

### Not true. At least with AB/XY, there's a pattern to it.

The worst thing about the PS2 buttons is actually not even the labling, but that games make different use of the buttons. Some games use X for 'Ok', other use [], 'Back' is sometimes O and sometimes X and sometimes /\, which makes it quite confusing. With the Gamecube controller on the other side there is never such confusion, since the primary and secondary buttons are so damn clear, that its basically impossible to assign them in missleading ways.

If I understand this issue correctly it dates back to the SNES, where Y was primary and B secondary for european games, but where A was primary and B secondary for japanese games. Since Nintendo keep pretty strickt quality controll it never became an issue, since all games that got released in europe where changed to follow the other mapping, with PS2 however every developmer seems to assign those buttons as they see fit, which can turn quite confusing, especially if you are not a 24/7 gamer.

Re:I don't blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is, analog sticks existed before that too. MS even had controllers for PC. Atari had one

Re:I don't blame them

[NanoGator]

"The problem is, analog sticks existed before that too. MS even had controllers for PC. Atari had one"

Never said Nintendo invented them.

Nintendo added them because they had a 3D system and they needed a 3D friendly navigation interface. The PS1 was a 3d system, but they didn't think that far ahead.

Release Date......

[DeadBugs]

So this is an announcement about the release date for the release date?

I hate slow news mornings :-(

Re:Release Date......

[telstar]

You think that's bad ... wait until it gets reposted.

Too difficult?

[Ghost429]

The controllers used to play them to be confusing and difficult A, B, L, R, Z, a D-Pad, and 2 analog sticks. I'm not sure how the level of difficulty can go down without sacrificing usability...

Re:Too difficult?

[Txiasaeia]

Ikaruga, one of the most complicated games for the Cube, uses three buttons (fire, change state, missile) and the D-Stick. I'm extremely confident that you can take away a few buttons and still have a usable controller, unless we're talking about games like Soul Calibur or Metroid Prime, for instance.

Speaking of which: somebody else here said that they wished that the gyro rumor were true, b/c it would make shooters much easier to play. Honestly, coming from twenty plus years of PC gaming (right back to Jumpman and Seamus, baby!), the control scheme for Metroid Prime is *extremely* intuitive. It's amazing how challenging the game is even with the auto-lock feature.

Re:Too difficult?

[Fred Or Alive]

Ikaruga can be played with two buttons, you can also have it setup so that Fire+Change is the "smart bomb". IIRC the Dreamcast (and arcade?) version is always like that, althoúgh you do still have a seperate "smart bomb" button as well (not sure about the arcade). It was obviously dumbed down for the GameCube. ;-)

Re:Too difficult?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that you were cracking a joke, but as much of a NAOMI<->DC purist I am (I have legit copies of every NAOMI conversion on the DC that was ever made available in Japan), I find that the GameCube version of the game is the better of the two home conversions. Just the fact that you can use the analog stick in the GameCube version makes it far superior to the DC conversion, IMHO. It's very comfortable.

In fact, it's been so long since I played my DC copy of Ikaruga that I can't even confirm or deny whether or not the DC version also has a discrete bomb button. I'll have to pull it out and give it a spin when I get home. All I know is that you have to use the DC's horrible d-pad in that version, and that was enough to get me to play the GCN version exclusively.

Re:Too difficult?

[bVork]

I've played stupid amounts of Ikaruga on Dreamcast. The bomb/homing/whatever (since its effect differs based on how much you have charged) is also mapped to the right trigger by default.

By the way, Radiant Silvergun (on Saturn) is better.

Re:Too difficult?

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed.

The fact that the Saturn controller has a good d-pad (unlike Dreamcast controller) certainly doesn't hurt. :)

Re:Too difficult?

[Fred Or Alive]

I mostly played with the Dreamcast Arcade Stick. The Dreamcast pad is awful for anything like 2D shooters or fighters, I'm glad I got a stick for them. I can't say I own every Naomi->DC conversion however, you must have an impressive games collection.

I haven't really played enough Ikaruga recently to compare the controls, all I know is that the Gamecube D-pad is even worse than the Dreamcast one, it's good you can use the analouge stick. I think the Gamecube one appears to be a slightly better conversion as well. I must dig it out at some point, at the moment my Gamecube is gathering dust as I'm mostly playing Xbox games.

(As for bomb buttons, the DC version does have one (R / C), but it's not actually needed, A+B fires the bomb, which isn't the default behavior in the Cube version IIRC, but you can switch it back if you want.)

Think Mind Meld...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thinks they are going to have you put a hat on..and play hands free.

Either that, or a glove...of some kind. easy, no buttons to confuse the noobs

What the fuck is your problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate people like you. Framedata? Please. Here's some enlightenment:

THE GAME WAS MADE TO PLAY AND HAVE FUN

How is putting that much effort into something fun for you? I'm betting its so you can 0wn t3h n00bs "look cool", and make yourself feel better. Please go die.

Re:What the fuck is your problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, man. No need to get all angry if mastering the intricacies (or flaws) of a game is fun to some people. I can't blame the guy.

But yeah, I said flaw. I think roll canceling is bullshit. I don't play CVS2 any more because of it. I can pull it off consistently, but it ruins the game for me, since I don't have a lot of good competition unless I'm at the arcade, and online play isn't an option for me (I don't want an Xbox, and wouldn't play CVS2 on it if I did, because of lag). I've gone back to CVS (not Pro), because it's the most _fun_ version. The Ken/Gouki/Ryu/S.Ryu & Terry juggles are too funny, and even my non-fanboy friends can at least have some semblance of a chance against me, since you can't roll cancel in this version. They _think_ the playing field is more level, and in a very true sense it is, but they don't stand a chance either way.... :)

Trust me, guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

The controller is going to have a touchscreen interface, similar to one of those touch screen universal remotes, where depending on the game it loads, the interface will change(certain buttons will appear/disappear in certain places).

Re:Trust me, guys.

[Iscariot_]

I highly doubt it because that would be MORE complicated than a static controller that you can at least memorize after enough time.

Re:Trust me, guys.

[KDR_11k]

Touchscreens can report only one button press at a time and lack tactile feedback, not even Super Mario Bros. would be playable on that since you'd want to hold run AND jump.

Re:Trust me, guys.

[devnull17]

I doubt it. The lack of tactile feedback would make such a controller pretty hard to use.

Touchscreens are also relatively expensive, can't record more than one touch at a time, and might not stand up too well to button-mashing in certain games.

Re:Trust me, guys.

[Anonymous Coward]

As the other repliers has already argued, this is definitely not going to be the primary interface for the Revolution.

Aside from the technical details, a touch screen controller would not be sufficient for many games Nintendo needs to emulate. If they want their games to be usable with Gamecube, N64, etc games they must have the same kinds of buttons and sticks for those games.

No, with the emulation news it appears they are locked into the old controller paradigm whether they like it or not. Either that or they will sell a separate controller for emulation, but that is costly and confusing for the consumer. Worse, many developers would design for the more familiar controller anyway and the "revolution" controller would become an oddity.

I think the controller will be more molded than the Cube design so the hands are in a more neutral position and there is less finger travel. There will also be gyroscopic support as used in a few GBA games. There will also be no more rumble. I don't think they'd include a touch screen in addition to buttons on the controller for cost reasons, and they would provide that support through the DS anyway. There will probably be a slightly reduced number of buttons. Although for full Cube support I'm not sure how they'd do that. Perhaps they will only eliminate the D-pad?

It appears they had to choose between backward compatability and radically new controller. While it appears Nintendo didn't unveil the controller at E3 they truly did! They chose shortly before that they would abandon the new interface in favor of capitalizing on broadband delivery of older games. Ostensibly a risky move, but in actuality the hopes of them breaking the controller paradigm under a cloud of secrecy is quite outrageous.

Nintendo is such a tease

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo is just doing what they always do:

Start of by showing their system in it's pretty packaging, slowly revealing small peices of information until they finally unveil a unveil their impressive joystick. ... man if I wasn't talking about consoles I'd worry about my sexuality ...

Real story

[metamatic]

I reckon it's taken them this long to decide the name and what it should look like. Now all their engineers are about to start the longest weekender in history.

Yoshi's Island

[goodenoughnickname]

Get her Yoshi's Island -- it's the Trojan Horse to girls playing video games. "Awwww, Mario's a cute widdle baby! OK, I guess I'll give it a try..."

Pretty soon she'll be humiliating you in Mortal Kombat 2. Seriously, your penis will shrink.

Re:Yoshi's Island

[hollismb]

Amen. Stupid girls wo always kicked my ass with Mileena, that cheap ass Sai-throwing whore.

Re:Yoshi's Island

[sevinkey]

Nah dude, she's a lot more into Mortal Kombat than I am, and she kicks my ass at it.

But our vs games of starcraft last hours and hours and hours.

and no, you guys can't have her number :)

Re:Yoshi's Island

[bigman2003]

My daughter is in her teens, and has friends over to the house fairly regularly...

Two of them became absolutely addicted to Halo/Halo 2. The competition is what got them addicted, and they were frickin' crazy to watch. So intense, and they REALLY cared if they won or lost.

One of them was already into games, and she picked it up pretty easily. For the other one, it was only the 2nd or 3rd game she had ever played, and it took her a while to get the hang of it.

They would come over for hours and hours...even to the point where I was saying "No, I can't play anymore." (My daughter was getting pissed, because they would come over and play Halo, which she has *no* interest in.)

Finally, I had to hide the Halo disks...and when I did, one of them got their own Xbox, and they started playing over at her house. 6 months later, they are still playing tons of Halo 2 on Live.

Before then I had never seen a girl/woman addicted to games...just the 'oh, I love Pac Man' type...I would say that these Halo girls were actually a little scary...

But I just wanted to point out...not all girls need a cute game to get started with video games.

the n-game and the hunt for the prize

[brs165]

This site http://mozlapunk.web-log.nl/ has been quite the center for information regarding the conspiracy that the Nintendo Revolution(NRV) is/was going to be shown this week. It also looks at and picks apart that fake Nintendo ON video.

Re:the n-game and the hunt for the prize

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing that annoys me most about the Nintendo ON video is how it maked an obvious mistake; in the video it showed the release date for the Nintendo Gamecube as 2002, when the Gamecube actually released Nov 18, 2001.

Nintendo isn't this sloppy ...

Gamecube controller...

[Hamster Lover]

This is why I love the Gamecube controler. I know what every button is based on the shape of the button. The big button is "A" the smaller button is "B", Z is skinny button on the top and so on. On the other hand, I wish the analog sticks were parallel to each other like the PS controler instead of off centre.

I am not sure how Nintendo is going to improve their controler scheme and maintain backwards compatiblity, but they say they will.

Re:Gamecube controller...

[NanoGator]

"I am not sure how Nintendo is going to improve their controler scheme and maintain backwards compatiblity, but they say they will."

The cheap way would be to put GC controller ports on the unit.

They could also build on the existing design. Leave the button layout the way it is, put touch sensors on the handles, and a gyro sensor somewhere in there. (Frankly, I'd settle for just the gyro. Anybody who's tried to use the sniper rifle in San Andreas knows what I'm talking about.)

Re:Gamecube controller...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, there are GC controller ports on the unit.

One of the pictures shows a shot of the side (or top, if you have the Revolution positioned vertically) of the unit. On that face there is a panel that opens up to reveal what appear to be 2 memory card slots, along with 4 GC controller ports.

This picture, actually: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/17/screens_61 25078.html?page=6

I'm Pretty Sure this won't be the Official Logo

[hubs99]

I'm Pretty Sure this will not be the Official Logo.
Slightly off topic but too absurd not to post

http://www.cafepress.com/larevolution

Knowledgeable writers

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:
He said the company was already talking to third-party game publishers about including their old Nintendo-compatible games in the downloadable archives.

That would allow users to play original versions of "Pac-Man" and "Donkey Kong," for instance.

Dip nuts doesn't realize Donkey Kong is a Nintendo game...

Re:Knowledgeable writers

[Anonymous Coward]

not to mention that the NES version of Pac-Man was published by Tengen, which wasn't a licensed nintendo developer

Re:Knowledgeable writers

[Anonymous Coward]

Namco released a Famicom version of Pac-Man themselves in Japan. That's what justifies Pac-Man's inclusion in the first round of Classics re-releases for the GBA.

Tengen supposedly did obtain the rights to do Pac-Man in the U.S., since nobody else had any plans to bring over Namco's Famicom version. But as you said, they weren't Nintendo licensees, and Nintendo never has and never will have anything to do with Tengen's properties.

Nintendo's Controller

[MBraynard]

In describing the controller, Reggie said that the new console will access the entire Nintendo Library history. He said if you looked at all the controllers going back to the original NES and lined them up, it would give you a hint about what the new controller would have to look like.

I am guessing it's some kind of dynamic surface that will have be able to create a raised and lit up surface depending on the needs of the game. Or maybe it won't have a the ability to raise itself, just the ability to display different interfaces.

Any other theories?

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems to me the only pattern from one Nintendo console to the next is the apperance of more rounded edges. The only buttons that have consistently remained from the beginning are A, B, Start, and the D-pad.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[cowscows]

It would have to have some sort of ability to modify its physical shape. I don't think it'd be possible to use a controller where you couldn't locate the different buttons just by feel.

If it was just like a touch screen that each game configured, you'd have to constantly be looking down at your hands, it'd be much harder to develop muscle memory, and it would seriously detract from the fun. Plus, how would you know how hard to push the button down. Would just brushing over it be enough? Could it be pressure sensitive? Although I'm sure nintendo could come up with some new game types that worked in that sort of setup, it would not be the least bit desirable for older games.

All of Nintendo's controllers are what I would call "backwards compatible" with all of its predecessors. They've basically been changing the general shape, and adding/moving buttons. The only think missing would be the select button from the NES/SNES, but there's plenty of new buttons to choose from to substitute for it.

The revolutionary part is going to have to be in addition to everything we've already got. I think the gyroscopic movement sensing stuff is the most likely of all the rumors I've heard, and if that is the case, I have faith in Nintendo to really develop that idea into something beyond the novelty that it's been in the past, and into potential for some really cool gameplay.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Yorrike]

I just lined up the NES, SNES, N64 and GCN controllers and I can see a pattern:

The SNES controller was a vastly improved NES controller, the N64 controller was completely different.
The GC controller is a vastly improved N64 controller...

So I'm guessing the Revolution controller will be completely different. Like nothing we've seen before. I think this comment is a bluff, as all games could be played comfortably on the GC controller, and the revolution has GC ports, so in designing the controller, all they have to do is release a revolution branded GC controller and the complete backwards compatibility problem is solved.

Since the Revolution controllers will be wireless, I'm guessing the Wavebird will work natively without the required receiver (which, if the console shell doesn't change, wouldn't fit the GC ports anyway).

We have a few more months to wait, but I am certain, that if the controller is not completely mind blowingly different, they wouldn't have included the GC ports.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[GreenHell]

We have a few more months to wait, but I am certain, that if the controller is not completely mind blowingly different, they wouldn't have included the GC ports.

See, I thought that too (and still think that), however, a friend of mine thinks differently. His opinion is that the GC ports are only there so that the GBA link cables can be used with GC games.

We'll all just have to wait and see, I guess.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Yorrike]

I think the Revolution will be designed to talk to either the DS or the next generation Gameboy (which is rumoured to appear for next year's E3). This means wireless all the way.

But as an aside, it does let you use the GameCube games with added GBA functionality, like Crystal Chronicles or Wind Waker. We can but wait :)

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Anonymous Coward]

And they're scrapping A, B, and the D-pad for the next console, apparently.

Itza mystery.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Anonymous Coward]

The GC controller is a vastly improved N64 controller

If by vastly, you mean slightly, then yeah

as all games could be played comfortably on the GC controller

It doesnt work well for the C buttons.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Jakeypants]

OK, let's see...

NES: 4 buttons, rectanular.
GB: 4 buttons, rectangular.
SNES: 8 buttons, mostly rectangular.
Virtual Boy: 6 buttons (I think. I actually have one of these.), semi nurbish.
N64: 10 buttons, nurbish.
GBA: 6 buttons, semi nurbish.
GCN: 8 buttons, very nurbish.

So for the GCN, they turned the four C buttons into a joystick.

I think this means that the new system will distill things even further and just be six joysticks, no buttons.

Re:Nintendo's Controller

[Lucractius]

You werent paying enought attention i think.

Reggie Pulled the new GBA out and showed it off to quite a lot of applause from the croud.

Its as he said a little smaller, and 2 thrirds the weight of an iPod mini with a slightly larger screen than the current GBA and it will be even brighter, have custom changeable covers... oh and it features fully integrated wifi networking to match the DS and the Revoloution... What were any of you saying about cords?

Nintendo are setting some serious goals here. Including a major deal with a large ubiquitous behmoth online gaming company that garantees free wireless gaming with GBAs and DSs in a ton of places. They arent just going to have console pads. in theory just as the GBA could be a pad for the Gamecube... Its practicaly garanteed there will be similar, if infact far more advanced, uses with Revoloution games, all without having to get any more plugs adapters or anything.

no its not

[rawmule]

- that controller(Wavebird) is as responsive as the wired ones

I was able to happily use a Wavebird for wind waker, metroid, and pretty much any other game. But, I picked up a Wavebird to play Smash Bros with and within a day was back on the wired controllers. The button response if fine, but there is still a slight delay in the analog stick response (the other people who I play SSBM with all agree, no one will use the Wavebird for SSBM). I'll admit that this was only noticable to people who had played the game alot, and it was very slight, but enough to throw off our game. This may be due to subtle differences in the controller rather lag per se, but the Wavebird is not exactly like the wired controllers.

Given that Smash Bros is appearantly the big revolution launch title, I have faith that Nintendo will get the analog (or touch screen, gyroscopic, thought recognition, whatever) response as good as a wired controller's.

Re:no its not

[SetupWeasel]

I didn't have the same problems, but I'm not as hardcore as some.

I have a questiion to ask you though. If the GC only had Wavebirds from the start would you have noticed it, or is it only noticeable in comparison to the wired controllers. If it is only noticable compared to the wired controllers, I wouldn't see that as a problem for you with the Revolution, even if it has the same reaction time. If it would be noticable to you anyway, that might be a problem, because Nintendo seems pretty pleased with the results of the wavebird. I wouldn't expect them to tweak it much more.

Re:no its not

[rawmule]

I would not have noticed the difference had I not maxed out the play counter on SSBM with wired controllers before going to Wavebird, as there would be no basis for comparison, and like I said, the difference on the analog is very subtle. But I was contending that Wavebird is not exactly the same as wired controllers, as parent suggested.

Re:STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR WIFE

[Anonymous Coward]

Just as no one gives a fuck about what a troll like you says.

Modern Controllers

[Anonymous Coward]

It must have took me a grand 7 days to master the PS2 pad. The positions of the buttons become intuitive very quickly, regardless of whether they are ABXY or ABC or XO/\. I can honestly say I've never had a problem with pressing the wrong button on a PS2 pad.

I'm expecting to see Nintendo come up with something that's completely stupid.

Re:Modern Controllers

[KDR_11k]

Great. You're one of the five people who intuitively know which button to press when the PS2 throws its stupid labels at you but the rest doesn't. It takes me a few seconds to figure out which button is meant when it just throws a shape at me (e.g. it asks you to input a combination).

Re:Modern Controllers

[Anonymous Coward]

Complexity for complexity's sake is "completely stupid" when it comes to pick-up-and-play devices. Those grand 7 days were WASTED EFFORT that were imposed on you by the marketing geniuses at Sony.

Pick up a Saturn pad some time. Figure out how long it would have taken you to learn ABCXYZLR compared to your grand 7 days with the "PS2 pad." Then punch yourself in the nose repeatedly, moron. Smartest thing you'll do all year, oh hieroglyphic master.

Re:Modern Controllers

[yoyhed]

The exact same button configuration has been around since Playstation was released in 1995, and again with PS2 in 2000. TEN YEARS. And we're talking the two bestselling consoles, with the most games, of the last decade. If you haven't learned it by now, just play for like an hour. The shapes also color-coded, so there's two ways to remember.

Re:Modern Controllers

[wheany]

The only button that is easy to remember on the PS controller is the triangle, and that's because it's at the top, so the shape of its glyph points to the right direction. Unfortunately, it's also one of the most rarely used buttons.

Re:Modern Controllers

[Anonymous Coward]

The standard keyboard has exsisted for decades but the average person still doesn't know the layout.

Re:Modern Controllers

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, those 7 days (could be less to be honest) were nothing compared to what, almost 3650 days of pleasure with the consoles.

Complexity for complexity's sake does not apply to the PS2 pad - notice how MGS2 for the Xbox had a bizarre method for first-person view - not enough buttons y'see.

Also, notice how the L1L2/R1R2 buttons are tucked away on the top of the controller, and are unused if they aren't necessary to the game. The Saturn pad had SIX main buttons on the right of the pad, compared to the 4 on the PS2 pad. In fact this means it has the same total number of buttons as the PS2 pad. Way to fall flat on your face.

PS - I have a saturn, whatever made you think I didn't? We aren't all fanboys.

Re:Modern Controllers

[Anonymous Coward]

What made you think that I thought you didn't have a Saturn? All I told you to do was look at the damn pad. For new users (and a lot of longtime players too), it boils down to this: Just look at the Saturn controller once, then respond when I tell you to press the Y button. You know that you should press the top middle button. Look at the PS pad once, then respond when I tell you to press square. Easier on Saturn? Sure. That's because letters are associated with order. Shapes aren't.

I was harsh on you because I just can't understand why people people would DEFEND poor design. You admit that it is difficult enough to have to spend any kind of time getting used to it, but my question is why? The answer, as I know already, is Sony's penchant for marketing uniqueness, even if that means complexity for complexity's sake. There is NO benefit to using shapes to identify buttons like they did, which is the same as saying there is no justification to doing it that way.

As for the number of buttons on the Xbox pad: irrelevant. I don't care what kind of foolishness MS does with their consoles because I'm not one of their customers, and they've done nothing to change that.

For the number of buttons on the Saturn pad's controller: what is your problem with this, again? I have none, same as how I have no problem with the number of buttons on the PS pad. Are you shadowboxing, or what? You're arguing against points I never made. I see problems with Sony's identifiers for their buttons, not with their number or placement. I DO hate the concept of L3 and R3 being placed under the poorly-placed analog sticks, but this is a common complaint that I didn't bother mentioning before. Yeah, I sure fell on my face hard on that one. Please let me know if there's anything else you'd like to imagine me saying.

Re:I'm Pretty Sure this won't be the Official Logo

[Guppy06]

Ehhh... it looks better with Reggie. As cool as Mario is, he doesn't strike me as the ass-kicking, name-taking type.

Personally, I wanna see the 3-letter code on the bottom of the thing to turn out to be "REG." :)

NINTENDO IS GREAT...

[Anonymous Coward]

...for homosexuals and small children.

Which one are you?