Liquid Metal Cooling in New ATI Video Card

MellowTigger writes "Water cooling is so passe, definitely 20th-century. What's the 21st-century geek to do to keep his gaming video card cool? Try the liquid metal technology that will be included in the ATI Radeon X850 XT video card using the cooling technology from Sapphire. This material is reported to be non-flammable, non-toxic, environmentally safe... and 65 times more thermally conductive than water."

Comments

new video card

[Renraku]

Also seeks out John Conner.

Re:new video card

[dpilot]

If we put together a Beowulf cluster of these, would they self-assemble into Skynet?

Re:new video card

[sinner0423]

Uhh, no. The first terminator was looking for sarah conner. The second, which looked like liquid metal, was actually looking for both John & Sarah when it went back in time.

This IS news for nerds, you knew that right? Sorry to nitpick, but I figured you may know why the mods deemed this funny.

Re:new video card

[Randy Wang]

... only to have the crap beaten out of it by the latest GeForce.

Re:new video card

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Please elaborate on MS DRM being cracked.

It was cracked in Japan and then quickly uncracked.
Rather, any of the phone-home restricted content forced an upgrade of the decrypter that was no longer crackable by the original method. T2 was liberated before the phone-home system had started to push out the new software.

The original method amounted to running the player under a debugger and looking for the decryption keys in a known location in memory, grabbing the keys and then using them to manually decrypt to a file. The new software checks for the presence of a debugger and refuses to run. I'm sure it is only a matter of time before that is also circumvented.

In theory, if you have not accepted an upgrade to the windows media system in the last month or so, all of the "on disc" restricted files could still be liberated. It is reportedly a fairly tedious manual process.

I think there is some discussion of the process on doom9.org if you want to dig deeper.

Let me just say

[lheal]

Cool.

* ducks *

3 possible reasons for this

[ross.w]

1. The card runs hotter
2. The card runs faster
3. geek cred points.

I'm voting for 3.

leakage

[LittleGuernica]

When your videocard starts leaking, don't mind the components being destroyed, but worry about a T1000 dripping out of your computer.. from the FAQ: Q: How will I know if my videocard is leaking? A: Ask your parents why "wolfie" is barking and if they answer you while the the dog is actually named "Max" then your videocard is leaking.

Re:leakage

[pcmanjon]

" Darn, the T2 joke has already been made *thinks of other joke to get karma..*"

Actually, Humor karma doesn't go on your karma record. Check the faq about karma.

Re:This can't be good.

[yotto]

Considering they said it's environmentally safe, I doubt it's mercury. Considering it's intended to /cool/ your gpu, I doubt it's molten lead.

Even if it were either, why couldn't it be good? 20x the cooling sounds pretty good to me, and if it's safe and environmentally friendly, what's the problem?

More leaks to worry about

[multi-flavor-geek]

So now I have to worry about memory leaks, security leaks, and liquid metal video card coolant leaks, ahhhh crap, this is all getting way to confusing.
I have enough trouble just keeping everything from blowing up everytime I get nailed by a thunderstorm, last time it was crack/fizz/is that smoke? Whats next, crack/fizz/smoke/drip?
It also doesn't mention if it's non-conducting, when I get struck by lightning 5h1t explodes, wouldn't that be fun to watch as the entire motherboard gets sprayed with a liquid metal conductive material, gaaaaaaa!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Marketing

[Detritus]

According to their website, the "TOXIC X700 PRO" features "Lethal Cooling". I think they need a new marketing department.

Re:Marketing

[ZorbaTHut]

Man. That sounds like the most awesome card ever. I bet that would sell *tons*.

I can't figure out what might be in it

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

They say it's not flammmable, so it's not the eutectic alloy of sodium and potassium that's liquid at room temperature. It's not toxic, so it's not mercury.

Gallium might be possible since it melts a few degrees over room temperature. It's only mildly toxic but nobody should call it "nontoxic".

Re:I can't figure out what might be in it

[glMatrixMode]

Nice guess, it's indeed Gallium, as a google search will confirm you.

There are other reasons for this...

[Rob Simpson]

"Sapphire's exciting new cooler is a compact, low-profile design using only one additional PC slot. Filled and sealed, it requires no user intervention, no reservoir or refilling and it is card resident so it requires no additional mounting space. The revolutionary use of an electromagnetic pump means no internal moving parts, low power consumption and delivers near silent operation."

A one slot and nearly-silent top end card.

Liquid Metal Cooling Additional Requirements

[the eric conspiracy]

1. NFPA requires NASCAR style fire extinguisher inside computer case.

2. House wiring must be upgraded and a 440v 3 phase outlet installed next to your computer.

3. Homeowners insurance rider for extreme fire hazard.

4. Fire retardent metal door must be installed between computer room and rest of house.

5. Town must grant zoning variance for indstrial scale use of power in a residence.

6. Special monitor must be installed which notifies the Fire Department when your frame rate exceeds 250.

Re:This can't be good.

[Velox_SwiftFox]

61% Gallium
25% Indium
13% Tin
1% Zinc

Solid at 6.5C
Liquid at 7.6C

a little bit more info...

[bumptehjambox]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/2005051 9225638.html

Here's a little bit more info, no word on T1000's involvement.

However, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that owners of this new "metal liquid cooling" at a LAN party ending quite horribly.
I can see it start with a few leaks, the liquid metal all joins together... T1000 lives again...

Gallium

[nickptar]

I'm pretty sure they're using gallium. It melts at 85F, is nontoxic (unlike mercury), and is nonflammable (unlike rubidium, cesium, sodium, and potassium, the only other metals I know of that melt at reasonable temperatures for a graphics card). Gallium also has almost exactly 65 times the thermal conductivity of water.

Re:Gallium

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

"Gallium metal expands by 3.1 percent when it solidifies, and therefore should not be stored in either glass or metal containers. Gallium also corrodes most other metals by diffusing into their metal lattice"

Doesn't sound very easy to store.

Re:Gallium

[LiquidCoooled]

I think you may be right.

I just found an article in new scientist:


And now, NanoCoolers, based in Texas, US, has developed a liquid metal cooling system that promises to be even quieter and more efficient. The system draws heat away from a circuit by pumping liquid gallium alloy through a series of pipes. The temperature of the liquid is brought back down to normal within an ambient air-cooled chamber.

link here

Re:This can't be good.

[Junior J. Junior III]

What state is it in between 6.6C and 7.5C????

Think of it as an improved heat sink

[Greg Hullender]

Several metals or alloys are liquid below the boiling point of water. My favorite is "Wood's Metal," which is used to make gag teaspoons. (They melt in your coffee -- but don't drink it!) http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/WO/woods_metal.html Gallium melts at an even lower point, but looks to be harder to handle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium None of these, though, has a higher specific heat than water, but, of course, they're claiming superior heat conduction, so perhaps the best way to think of it (whatever metal they chose) is as a very, very elaborate heat sink.

--Greg

Real Information

[Rufus211]

Geeze, why does /. keep on linking to physorg, which has crappy articles and no links to real information about stuff.

Here's a more in depth article on X-bit. NanoCoolers has a pretty in depth description of the product. It's basically a watercooling loop but using a molten metal. The really cool part is that because the metal is obviously electrically conductive, they're using a DC current combined with some magnets to take advantage of Lorentz force to propel the fluid.

Near-silent

[Rxke]

From TFA
"The revolutionary use of an electromagnetic pump means no internal moving parts, low power consumption and delivers near silent operation. "

Near-silent? What is making the noise then?

Re:This can't be good.

[uiucmatse]

It'll be between the liquidus and solidus lines, so you'll have a composition of liquid plus some small amount of alpha-phase.

Re:This can't be good.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's undefined, and if you dare use it at that temperature you'll just get a null pointer exception.

Re:This can't be good.

[HermanAB]

Both liquid and solid: Recrystalizing state.

Re:This can't be good.

[Dahan]

The same state any non-eutectic alloy is between its freezing and melting points--partly solid and partly liquid.

Anyways, there are plenty of metal alloys that are liquid at or slightly above room temperature.

But even discounting alloys, there's are a few other elemental metals other than mercury that are liquid at room temp (assuming your room has a computer or two to keep it warm): Gallium melts at 29.76 degrees C and Cesium at 28.44 degrees (I'd keep the latter far from my computer though). Rubidium melts at 39.31 degrees, so it'd be liquid at the temperatures today's GPUs reach (but I'd keep that far from my computer too).

Liquid Metal info

[cyberfunk2]

Did some research, found the following two patents:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r =1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=nanocoolers&OS=nanoc oolers&RS=nanocoolers

And

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r =2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=nanocoolers&OS=nanoc oolers&RS=nanocoolers

It looks like they're using a Gallium/Indium (rare elements) alloy. This is certainly not environmentally safe from a chemical point of view as these are toxic heavy metals. I think by environmentally safe they are pointing to the "sealed" system that they are advertising. That is, they dont exepect the systems to leak, as they do not require any refilling.

Basically, their argument appears to be that it's safe because it cant get out, just like coolant in a nuclear reactor. This is actually a reasonable claim, however, we shouldnt take it to mean that the liquid metal coolant itself is evironmentally sound, just that the system, while in operation, is.

P.S. it appears they've also experimented w/ Lead/Bismuth, mercury, and Sodium/Potassium alloys.

Metal?! Ah, I see why... I think?

[TerranFury]

When I first saw that they were using liquid metal, my first thought was "Why?!" Water has a gigantic heat capacity, and is in may ways the Ideal Coolant.

But then I saw: "Electromagnetic pump with no moving parts." So it looks like they're sacrificing some of the coolant properties of water so that they can use something very electrically-conductive, and gain the advantage of silent operation.

That said, IIRC there are no-moving-parts water pumps that use electrochemical effects (something with electrolysis and dragging ions through the water), but I've always assumed that they're limited to small flow rates.

Now I want to know how this no-moving-parts liquid-metal-pump works. Maybe use a square-cross-sectioned pipe with an insulating top and bottom and conductive sides; pass a current between the sides, and put large permanent magnets above and below? Or do it linear-induction-motor style? Hmmm...

Note ads always mention the UP side:

[Ancient_Hacker]

Yep, Gallium does indeed conduct heat many times better than water. Too bad that's not a relevant parameter here.

With a cooling loop, you'd like a liquid that can carry a lot of heat per trip and doesnt get too hot in doing so. Water gobbles up a whole kilocalorie per cc for each degree. gallium is dreadful by comparison-- it has a FIFTEEN times poorer specific heat, so it either goes up 15 degrees per cc as it passes the GPU, or the pump has to put out 15 times the flow rate to give the same cooling rate as plain old H20.

Good old H20.

Re:Non Toxic Liquid Metal?

[John Meacham]

Yeah, galinstan is liquid at room temperature and quite safe (compared to mercury). I have a vial of it on my desk. fun stuff.

make your own, it is 68.5% Ga, 21.5% In, 10% Sn or you can buy it online.

A cool application is to make a _perfect_ parabolic mirror. You do this by spinning a puddle of it. The centrifugal force pulls it against the sides and is countered by gravity pulling down the center making a perfect mirror for a tesescope always pointing exactly straight up.

Re:Near silent

[Rob Simpson]

Yeah, finding quiet/silent parts for a PC is difficult... here's a few that I'm using if anyone is interested:

Antec Phantom 350 PSU
Gigabyte 6800 fanless (only 12 pipes, but not a big sacrifice...though if this liquid metal stuff works it should make things easier the next time I upgrade)
Thermalright CPU heatsink with a 120mm fan on a Zalman fan bracket and set at minimum on a Zalman fanmate control.
All in an Antec 3700BQE case with quiet 120mm exhaust fan.

The annoying thing was that as soon as I got rid of one whining or droning noise I'd notice a slightly quieter one... Now, it's inaubible except in dead silence.

Using an alloy?

[Phong]

I would assume that they're using some kind of an alloy that has a lower freezing temperature. One possibility is an alloy of gallium, indium, and tin (also known as Galinstan) which has a freezing point of -20 degrees centigrade.