Slashdot Mirror
Has Anyone Made an Artificial Diamond Ring?
DiamondRingThing asks: "I know that diamond engagement rings are a recent fabrication, and the two months salary required to obtain one is ridiculous. Diamonds are pretty however, and evil never keeps a good hacker down. I'd like to be able to give a diamond to my girlfriend that I know was forged just for her, without any blood on it, and without giving any money to DeBeers. That's why I won't buy an artificial diamond from a jeweler, as I suspect the cartel is involved at that level. Does anybody know anyone that has made their own diamond to set in a ring? How's the cost, and the quality? Thanks in advance."
Does anybody know anyone that has made their own diamond to set in a ring?
Sure...Superman used to do this all the time.
I think Vulcan did this quite a bit too.
^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
From the article:
De Beers executive drove directly to Claridge's, and the two men sat down in the tearoom to the strains of a piano and violin duet. De Beers refuses to comment on the meeting--or about anything for this story--but Clarke says he simply placed his diamonds on the table. "When I told him that we planned to set up a factory to mass-produce these, he turned white," the General recalls.
See this excellent article in Wired a while back: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.h tml
Further discussion on this topic and slashdot will feel the power and wrath of De Beers.
Prepare for 503 errors if you continue to discuss alternatives to natural diamonds.
You have been warned.
-De Beers NOC
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
Last time I checked, a couple of months ago, lab created diamonds are still not up to gem quality. Unless you're looking for a convincing substitute, you really don't have a choice.
Theres always Lifegem
A good rule of thumb is two years' salary, sir.
If your future wife doesn't care about the diamond, get something else. Manufacturing diamonds isn't something that you can do.
My wife was cool about my objections to diamonds, so I get a really nice sapphire and put it on a very unique setting.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
They are not artificial, but Sirius Diamonds of Canada is one source where you can stay away from DeBeers and other diamond cartels.
I was recently looking this up and most diamond "growers" are focusing on the lucrative colored diamonds, which are much cheaper than dug-up colored diamonds of similar quality but are about as expensive as a white/clear diamond of similar quality.
Silly cheap gem-quality white diamonds aren't really here yet, but if she wanted a blue or yellow diamond the size of her thumb, she can:)
If your looking for clear your only choice is http://www.apollodiamond.com/ they don't make it clear where you can buy their diamonds and I have not been able to find a source. If you can deal with color- yello blue or pink then you can use Gemesis http://www.gemesis.com/ You can buy loose gemesis stones online from http://www.diamondscultured.com/ and get it monuted by a local jewler.
Just buy her a Canadian diamond...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/diamonds/
If your conscience is bothered as much as mine is by the horror stories of the diamond-mining industry, there are always the Canadian alternatives.
I have found there are just two ways to go.
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow. -REK, Jr.
Right here stands a man
With the power to make a diamond with his bare hands.
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
Diamonds purchased from a jeweler are overpriced because you're getting it from a cartel. I recommend getting a ring from a pawn shop; the price of that diamond will be closer to an actual market value of that gem. The cost will be considerably lower than that from a jeweler, and you are getting the exact same type of rock.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
If you buy any sort of 'diamond' you perpetuate the myth.
Think different - not that Apple is anymore.
One: It would cheaper to buy a 3rd world nation from which to mine the diamond, or perhaps fund your very own coup, than to build the lab required for such an undertaking.
Two: The ridiculous outlay in cash is "proof that you truly love her" and without this she will have troubles interacting with her friends who, to a girl, have been subjected to the same brain washing and with her parents who partook in the brain washing.
Three: Buying blood diamonds has little impact on the goings on in Africa, it's an extremely fucked up place and the few dozen land mines bought from from the money from your diamond is nothing compared to mountains of small arms and land mines the G8 is selling to the various wacko revolutionaries and wacko tyrants or just the wacko white farmers, On CREDIT.
Three: While it is admittedly difficult to find a women worth spending your life with who doesn't want some ridiculus gem on her finger in the US, this is not so much the case elsewhere in the world.
Food for thought: How long does a diamond last? How long does a human last? How long does the average marriage last? Now considering these facts why isn't the used diamond market absolutely flooded? Where the hell did they go? OK My Mum had some from my Grannies that she gave to my sisters but come on, where are the rest?
My take on this... I fought a lot with my ex about this before we were married and she, of course, brought it up when we getting a divorce. Actually I'm pretty sure she still holds the comment "Do you realize how many land mines were planted in Africa with the money from that ring" comment, I made in front of our parents, against me. That was a sign I should have never married that women to begin with and should of held out for the fantastic Girlfriend I have now. I just pray that my daughter doesn't start to exhibit the same wacko tendencies...
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Why don't you talk it over with your fiance and find a set of matching rings that you both can afford -- then spend excess cash on a honey-moon or house downpayment.
:-)
Do you want an equal partnership or are you looking to 'buy' a wife? Might I suggest that 'buy'ing such a wife sets a poor precedent for the future of the relationship.
If one of you doesn't make as much as the other, fine: figure out a proportional payment based on your take-home and find a pair based on that sum.
Wasting so much money on a rock in this day and age when marriages are often not "forever" seems a bit dated -- and being a woman, I certainly wouldn't want the feeling of indebtedness that might come from such an unequal exchange. It would feel like a wrong power & relationship dynamic.
You also might find she likes other gemstones better than the "vanilla" standard white diamond.
I don't think artificial diamonds of superb color/clarity are quite yet ready for "prime time". Have read they have made small ones, but they are quite a bit away from larger ones and mass production.
Might also think of whether or not you want the bride's father to pay for the wedding (another tradition, taking the place of the dowry), or maybe pool resources w/your parents toward a honeymoon (or house downpayment).
At least with the money for a house downpayment -- you will both own a house together. Studies have shown a positive correlation between, both joint ownership of property and joint finances and longer marriages.
All this presumes you are a "mere", mortal man. If you are Bill Gates or
some multi-billionaire, well... nevermind.
Anyhow, just a suggestion. You probably wanted it a little sooner, eh?
Another one bites the dust
Moissanite.
My wife likes the sparkle, especially under standard indoor lighting. It really is more colourful and brighter than a diamond, but only costs a fraction of the price. Maybe one third the price, around here.
Of course, if your gal is one of those "but it's not a DIAAAAAMOND!" girls, you're SOL.
Why in the world would you want to pay thousands for a rock? Especially since you can get a real diamond (though manufactured).
I read the article on Wired and then saw an ad for the following company, www.diamond-essence.com , who sells manufactured diamonds. As a random example they have a ring with a 5kt diamond, and other smaller diamonds for a total of 7.5kts. Total price?
$249
DeBeers price? via Kay jewelers
1ct solitaire!
Wait for it!
$6499!!!!
Hell of a difference. See other posts for the morality of diamond mines and monopolies...
Whats so artificial about it? It may not be a 'natural' diamond, but artificial? Like combining sodium and chlorine or burning hydrogen in the lab produces artificial salt or water.
You can manufacture diamonds and swear its real. The gold part, now that would be tough. Although many girls like silver colors and will settle for silver or other shinly substitute. If it is bling bling enough, they'll accept it as proof of your love. Just dont tell her the price.
I think DeBeers crushes all possibilities of manufacturing such diamonds legally in western countries. Thats why I'm interested in this business; I can make an upstart in my native Afghanistan. At least Central and South Asia could break free of the monopoly, no matter what any law says.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Actually, the tradition is supposed to be 3 months' salary.
Anyway, expensive diamond rings just help to demonstate that you are worth coughing up 50% of your assests in a divorce. I never thought I would be divorced, but it happened. (Fortunately we had a completely amicable division of property and money.) This is just a friendly warning that marriage could cost you your ass these days.
Best wishes in your life together!
google it
/. uber-nerd (she detests my love of this site), the uniqueness of the gem falls right in line with her personality.
My fiance's engagement ring is 2/3 moissanite (3 stones, the center is diamond). It's better looking than diamond side by side, costs less, and has a more interesting background than diamond (outer space vs. hot air). While she's not a
And 2 months salary (it's actually turning into 3 months now) is BS. If a girl only loves you because of how much she thinks you can spend on her, you better find a new girl cuz you didn't land a keeper.
I'm not a feminist. I like traditional roles. I like being the guy and there being a difference between the sexes, but engagement rings just piss me off.
The diamond engagement ring is a modern concept -- 1880's, thank you very much De Beers. But it sits on the chattel, economical arrangement ideas.
Engagement rings are expensive because they come from a tradition of viewing women as property, and men as providers, not partners. You're putting a down payment on her so as to keep her from marrying someone else, and to prove that you're successful. She wears it to prove to her friends that her husband is successful.
Wedding rings are great. They're generally cheap and function as symbols to two people binding to one another. Engagement rings are about materialism, conspicuous consumption, and investment in a woman as property via a down payment that you lose if you breach the contract.
If you MUST prove to her you're affluent, something's horribly wrong in your relationship. If you just want to prove it, stop for a second and think "why?" -- is it confidence issue for yourself, or are you just allowing the weight of history and our avaricious, hungry, capitalist society to put desires in your head?
If you really both want something to put on her finger to say "I am owned, even though I'm not yet married" to outsiders (and there's real comfort in that for both parties, I know), consider one of those Irish friendship rings, then she can box it away when she gets the real, mutual icon of the final attachment, instead of looking at it as so expensive she needs to wear it.
Buy Moissanite if your girl doesn't mind. It had been selling for 1/10 of the cost of a comparible Diamond. My wife actually suggested it for her rings. Most Diamond detectors report Moissanite stones as diamond. My wife rings are very nice looking and didn't cost me two months salary.
http://www.moissanite.com/education_video.cfm
Later,
-Slashdot Junky
.
Landfill Mining Co.
Managing the (Un)natural Resources of Tomorrow
...make sure you spend time on learning about the traditional 4C's of diamond quality: cut, clarity, color, and carat. (5C's if you add "Cost". Heh.)
The main point of a gem is to be bright (brilliance) and sparkly (fire)... And to achieve that, you want to maximize the light "gathering" tendencies of the gem.
Clarity, color and carat are fairly well explained, but it seems cut is not always correctly understood. "Cut" does not mean "shape". Instead, it is the quality of how the diamond was cut -- the sub-qualities to cut include its symmetry and polish, and its geometry.
Personally, a well cut stone can be more sparkly and brilliant than a much larger poorly cut stone, even if the color/clarity of the two stones are similar. In fact, the better cut stone can be more brilliant and appear whiter, even if it is slightly inferior in color.
There's much talk about "hearts and arrows" among the diamond connoiseurs. What it basically boils down to is that H&A diamonds are proportioned such that they maximize light reflections through much more precise alignment of the light paths (by more careful arrangement of the facets).
It's the opposite problem of adding "noise" into ray-traced images that look too perfect... The H&A polishers work harder to take away the "noise"... You're trying to minimize light loss through alignment errors!
Of course, at the end of the day, you just have to look at enough stones to start telling them apart. If you want to escape cheap, go with "ignorance is bliss"... More you study, the more expensive it gets... I ended up spending a month of research to learn about diamonds, and it was quite fun, but ultimately very expensive. (And people do think it's a bit odd when you use a toilet paper roll to study a diamond... But it works!)
They dont even look real, more like cheap 3D...
Cool concept if they are legit..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I know a lawyer who advised his recently engaged daughter to only plan for five years of marriage. Most people thought this was tacky, but I thought it was genius
such brilliant marketing by DeBeers etc
back when I was a kid I remember it being 1 month of pay
also, what ever happened to those Russkies who were making cheap diamonds by the truck load? I bet they were bought/forced out.
---- Put Sig here:
I bought my wife a Canadian diamond by finding a dealer through Sirius Diamonds and there's another brand called Ekati... it worked out pretty well since she was born in Ontario(and for those of you brought up on US High School history, that's part of Canada)
You can read up on them, but they're mined up in the Northwest Territories and are only cut/sold as ideal cuts, high clarity, light color -- all that good stuff. I didn't break the bank either, (although I admit I didn't buy into that DeBeer's 2 months wages propaganda). They sent it across the border in a fedex envelope labeled "Carbon Sample" in order to null out any customs fees. Go canucks!
To sum up: my wife loves it, they're guilt free, and they put a neat little polar bear laser enscription into the girdle. oh yeah!
and now back to the fallout shelter...
My wife and I wrestled with this one for a while, and finally settled on purchasing an old stone in a new setting (old settings can suffer from too much metal fatigue for proper sizing, or break more easily). Its an "Old European Cut" stone, which is really cool. Its a cut no one makes any more, and rather than reflecting the light shone onto/into it in pure white like all modern cuts, the natural imperfections in the hand cut stone cause it to refract the light into a rainbow of colors. It was also far, far cheaper. We considered Moissanite and even cubic zirconium, but frequently grow tired of explaining our political and philosophical views to relatives. When they asked if I really had managed to afford a real diamon, we could truthfully say yes and leave it at that.
My wife very much likes betterthandiamonds.com, where you can get artificial diamonds called "Asha". She did a lot of research on the subject and really only experts can tell the difference and they even come with a guarantee (non-tranferable though, I didn't like that) that they will not get scratched. So you get a very beautiful looking stone for a fraction of the price.
Hope that helps and the obligatory comment that I have no connection to the above mentioned company but did like their product.
First of all, this would be a good time to invest in a seminar on how to negotiate (e.g. Karrass Negotiation Seminars). This will help you in your marriage, just as much as in material things like buying a diamond ring or a car or getting the highest possible starting pay rate.
Second, you need to learn about how to buy diamonds, go to google.com and type in, "Diamond Buying FAQ".
I've seen a lot of posts talking about how growing your own diamond is not really reasonable, so I would like to suggest an alternative.
What about, instead of creating the diamon, create the ring itself. I've seen companies on the net (can't remember any names off hand but you should be able to google) that will create jewelry based off 3D models. Then you could create the ring, and get her input on it. If you don't want to pay for the diamond because of cost, or because of ethical reasons, then look at alternative gems.
Personally, I've always preferred Rubies.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
if you don't mind it being pink, blue, or yellow, you can get something at greenKarat
To this day it is still the biggest misconception in the industry that artificial diamonds are inferior in quality.
:-P
NEWS FLASH:
Those flaws are made on purpose, to keep DeBeers from absolutely destroying the market by flooding his entire stock onto it.
"Natural" artificial diamonds are perfect. That's right, PERFECT. No flaws, exceptional clarity. They are that way inherently so. Would someone who is actually involved in the bort industry please elaborate? Artificial diamonds are HEAVILY used in the machining industry, read: EVERYTHING that has to do with shaping metal or similarly hard materials. Bort diamond has no flaws, it's just not white or yellow, doesn't have to be.
The process in which diamonds are "grown" inherently produces sheer slabs of perfect cubic carbon, no imperfections. The artifical diamonds you see on the market are engineered to have flaws, as agreed upon by DeBeers and the manufacturers capable of producing artificial white, yellow, blue or red diamond. I have a sneaky suspicion this misconception will carry for a LONG time.
Ever seen a lab diamond? As in a diamond created for scientific purposes? PERFECT in every manner. They have to be, same as industrial diamond, those flaws mean structural instability; which is unacceptable for use such as high-polish grinding. DeBeers has managed to assert so much control in the industry that those that have even tried to do so for resale purposes are quickly crushed.....or just disappear completely.
The diamond/jewelry industry is ugly, very ugly. It is corrupt, bloody and very arrogant. Having never seen a conviction by law or even pursued by vigilante organizations known to exist in Asia or Africa, they will continue to be for a very long time. Here's something I bet you don't know, diamond bank gaurds--who just so happen to be unaffiliated with any law enforcement or government organization--have been known to carry FN Five-seveN's and H&K MP7's...without a Class C or equivalent license. These arms just happen to be illegal enough to get your average guy to disappear, having been designed for either clandestine operations or condition black urban ops (read: punch through anything, and accurately; with extreme concealability). When I say disappear, I don't mean dead, I mean gone. In Guantanamo Bay for the next 500 years.
Do what I plan on doing, make the ring yourself, it's not really that hard. A couple specialized Dremel bits, a 1"X3/4" piece of gold stock and a sizeable gem aside from a diamond that would accentuate your love's eyes, and go to town. Bench lathes are cheap, couple hundred bucks, as are the tools they use, you could make yourself a ring that any woman that would complain about would have to be crazy--one of a kind and hand made--for HALF the price of even a cheap ring. Oh, and you'd learn a marketable skill in the process. Who know's you might just have fun and use that same bench lathe for other projects. I know I would.
What comes from the heart? Blood, sweat and tears. Why not put that into your wedding ring? If you do it right, there'll be all three
Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last
Sure, the end product is essentially the same, but nothing says "I love you forever" than a gem that took thousands or millions - or at least longer than your marraige will last - of years to produce.
I predict within 20 years the only way to tell a manufactured diamond from a made-by-God one will be by a certificate of origin, possibly backed by a laser engraving.
Ironically, the desire to avoid "conflict diamonds" will do more to drive certificates of origin and laser engraving than the fear of man-made diamonds, at least in the short term.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I used a diamond from my great grandmother's ring. No more money to the cartel, it was a special stone, and my wife likes it just fine. (Yes, she knows where I got it... she thinks heirloom stones are cool and wants it to go on to a great granddaughter someday.)
I had the diamond set in a custom engagement ring, and we had our jeweler make two additional bands that were affixed to each side of the engagement ring for the wedding.
Why dream up a complicated, expensive solution like manufacturing your own diamond, when you can have a simple solution?
Of course, the moment I read this story I figured that the submitter was either having a good laugh for a good troll or just too out of touch with reality for their own good.
Other solutions that other people have suggested: Get a Canadian stone (no blood), or get one from a pawn shop.
My addendum: If you get one from a pawn shop, do *not* give her the ring from the pawn shop. Have the stone set into a new custom ring. It'll be special that way. Get the stone appraised by a certified gemologist. Finally, she doesn't need to know it's not a "new" diamond. But she'd better be sure the ring as a package is "new".
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Read the FAQ, nuff said
http://www.brunners.com/life_gem.htm
if you don't want to wait for a death to occur naturally:
you need about 2 pounds of unprocessed (i.e. carbon left in) cremation ashes:
two dozen rats, orthwo to three dogs,po
8 cats, or
100 miles worth of roadkill
NO kartell involved
No blood
Fresh from the oven, no middlemen at all! Count anywhere between 5k$ to 11k$ for the stone (1/2 carat to 1 carat).
There are other sites. I think most of them have it done in Switzerland.
mike
They are yellow like crazy. Easily spotted, though they pass the tests. The color is a very dyhydrated urine-yellow color, not like the light hues of natural diamonds.
You can make one in a microwave oven by dropping the pressure and feeding in methane (natural gas) an reaching a temurature fo 1800deg C. After placing a dialond seed, several weeks later you should have additional deposits.
Your options for a clear diamond come only from nature at this time.
I do recommend hanging out in NYC's diamond district. Take some body guards (I am serious, people will mug you after seeing you in the transaction) and cash, and you can get a wholesale (reasonable) price from an independant Jewish vendor on the street. It sounds shady, but these diamond brokers operate off of trust themselves.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
That atmospheric pressure is the exact WRONG kind of environment to be growing diamonds.
The basic CVD setup for diamond is alcohol and hydrogen vapors flowing over a filament and then onto a sample deposition plate.
Take a tank of alcohol and bubble hydrogen through it. You can get H2 from a gas supply company, or any acid-metal reaction. You'll want a valve to control the ratio. The Carbon-Hydrogen ratio should be quite low (about 10%?) to give a good controlled growth rate. The slower, more controlled the growth rate, the better and larger the end product.
Research shows that a certain amount of water vapor may be desirable. I've heard therefore that Sake and Burbon are actually pretty good to use for this. I would use just straight ethanol if I were attempting, however.
Pipe this from the top through a verticle pyrex tube. In the middle mount a tungsten filament. This you'll want to get to 2400 degrees centigrade by running a current through it (through a rheostat)... I've heard that a good way to check is to view it through exposed daytime film; it'll start showing through the film at the right temperature. A few millimeters beneath that mount a small plate as a growth medium. You can either vent the outgassing or burn it. Of course this technique requires an oxygen free environment so don't just leave the bottom open; force it through a tube of equal or lesser diameter as your feed tube.
extremely low pressures or extremely high pressures are very good for making better diamond from this process. If you're going high pressure try stainless steel for your containment vessel. Low pressure only requires thick enough glass to stand near-vacuum.
Use inert materials for everything. The process is basically to start with a seed plate (silicon or molybdenum are both good candidates for diamond growth)... grow VERY slowly at first until you get a good seed crystal. Then you replace the seed plate with an inert piece of glass with any seed crystals in it. You'll get mostly carbon dust unless you can tune everything properly (the dust contains a large number of microscopic diamonds and actually shows up on xray crystallography as diamond)
Ideas for tuning to get gem-quality diamonds (some of these from the original researchers some from me)
The process works by taking the OOH out of the alcohol (-COOH) and combining it with the raw H2 to make water. The carbon becomes free radicals and crystallize quickly. The process doesn't yield gem quality diamonds because the crystallization happens so quickly that it has numerous nucleation sites and therefore yields many microscopic crystals instead of one large crystal.
1. Decrease the thermal gradient between the sample and the filament. (no I have no idea how to do this. if *I* were designing from scratch I would put a smaller secondary filament under the sample)
2. Play with flow rates. A high flow rate accompanied by a low temperature may encourage better crystal growth. Same thing with a low flow rate and high temperature.
3. Try ionizing the flow. The extra repulsion between radicals should keep them seperated longer and provide better nucleation targets. For that matter putting an opposite charge under your samples might help as well. Of course, diamond is an insulator so that might actually be counterproductive by providing nucleation sites apart from the seed itself. Maybe using a pulsed ionic spray on the seed will help?
4. Increase potential energy in the seed. Light abrasion with diamond grit sandpaper provides more potential energy for nucleation. This is similar in idea to ionizing, in that it electrochemically roughens the surface.
I played around with this stuff 10 years ago in high school. It might be worthwhile to set up a new experiment now that I've written this hahaha.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!